Profiling

cars · Post by **cars** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:43 am

Racial Profiling- is it wrong? After the bombings of: Pan Am 103, WTC 1993, Marine barracks in Lebanon, Marine Barracks in Saudi Arabia, USS Cole, WTC 9/11. Is it wrong?

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:31 am

cars wrote: Profiling- is it wrong?

You will have to elucidate.

cars · Post by **cars** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:47 am

Bill Sikes wrote: You will have to elucidate.

Either Yes or No

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:24 am

cars wrote: Either Yes or No

"Profiling" - what is it?

Hawke · Post by **Hawke** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 11:59 am

For Bill: "Profiling", at least in the sense cars is using it, is the suspicious treatment of people based on their nationality/race. In the media, this is commonly referred to as "Racial Profiling".

cars · Post by **cars** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 12:48 pm

Fyrehawke wrote: For Bill: "Profiling", at least in the sense cars is using it, is the suspicious treatment of people based on their nationality/race. In the media, this is commonly referred to as "Racial Profiling".

Adding to that, like people that fit the description most possibly linked to terrorist groups or radical organizations that were responsible for Pan Am 103, etc.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 4:01 pm

Strikes me as being a bit pointless, so all a middle eastern terrorist would have to do is use a european or american passport with a presumably anglo saxon sounding name, appropriate accent and nobody will suspect them.

They don't seem to apply much common sense to the profiling We have an Indian friend with a portuguese surname who seems to get picked on every time she travels to the states, she finds it humourous if a little wearing as she couldn't look less like someone from the middle east if she tried.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 5:35 pm

"profiling" means something else to me, a huge police issue, especially in florida, where the 95 corridor from miami northward was/is THE drug traffic corridor, and certain types of vehicles with certain ethnic groups were subject to scrutiny. anti-profiling is now taught as part of "diversity" training in police academies.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:18 pm

lady cop wrote: "profiling" means something else to me, a huge police issue, especially in florida, where the 95 corridor from miami northward was/is THE drug traffic corridor, and certain types of vehicles with certain ethnic groups were subject to scrutiny. anti-profiling is now taught as part of "diversity" training in police academies.

It's wrong, but I have to say somewhat understandable in SOME cases.

Boy, do I hesitate to say something like that! I know that as a 52 year old

caucasian female, I don't fit hardly any profiles that I can think of!! If I did,

I'm sure I might be ticked about it.

I hate profiling wherever I find it, especially in the case of German Shepherd

Dogs. I know it invites the "It's JUST a dog" feeling from people, but sorry,

too many I know have had to deal with it. "They're the worst biters" "They

will turn on you" is no better than the kind of thing directed at persons of

color driving beat-up cars. We should all try and avoid it whenever possible.

lady cop · Post by **lady cop** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:27 pm

Hi Valerie...actually it was late model luxury cars and Hispanics. and frankly , the profile was a tool gleaned from experience. that may not be politically correct, but statistics bore it out. it wasn't policy, it was experience. i cannot help it if i am in a certain neighborhood and know the demographic of the crack dealers...should i seek them out at a girl scout picnic? and 52 year old white females...i busted so many shoplifting! LOL boy i am in trouble now...i do not mean to stereotype anyone! but i am talking miami here! and drug cartels. and big bucks, and runners, and columbia. i am not going to look at 87 year old guy in his RV going up 95. usually....( BTW German shepards are my favorite breed, have been all my life).

Bill Sikes · Post by **Bill Sikes** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 4:08 am

Fyrehawke wrote: For Bill: "Profiling", at least in the sense cars is using it, is the suspicious treatment of people based on their nationality/race. In the media, this is commonly referred to as "Racial Profiling".

Ah, thank you. IMO it is quite possibly appropriate, but very great care needs to be taken to prevent a repeat of the disgraceful treatment e.g. of a certain group of Americans during and after WWII.

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 11:18 am

lady cop wrote: Hi Valerie...actually it was late model luxury cars and Hispanics. and frankly , the profile was a tool gleaned from experience. that may not be politically correct, but statistics bore it out. it wasn't policy, it was experience. i cannot help it if i am in a certain neighborhood and know the demographic of the crack dealers...should i seek them out at a girl scout picnic? and 52 year old white females...i busted so many shoplifting! LOL boy i am in trouble now...i do not mean to stereotype anyone! but i am talking miami here! and drug cartels. and big bucks, and runners, and columbia. i am not going to look at 87 year old guy in his RV going up 95. usually....( BTW German shepards are my favorite breed, have been all my life).

Well, I got the cars wrong I guess!! But I know what you mean. It just

doesn't make sense sometimes to NOT profile... I heard that now they

tell young children in trouble to try and find a WOMAN... because the

vast majority of child molesters are MALE. That is a type of profiling

but whaddya gonna do? I think law enforcement just has to have something

to go by or it just all gets seriously bogged down!

Funny you should say that about shoplifters... a while back I was searching

for a couple insulated bags to go in my saddle bags to keep my lunch and

drink cool on a trail ride... well I went to several stores WITH the saddle bags

and tried out various things, sliding them in and out... one grocery store had

its' insulated bags on the lowest shelf so I plopped right down on the floor

for testing... in all these stores, including a large "camping gear" store... I

was not ONCE approached or asked what I was doing or to check my bags

as I left the store!! I got home and mentioned it to my husband, and he said

"Guess you just have an honest face"!!!

:-6

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 12:05 pm

lady cop wrote: Hi Valerie...actually it was late model luxury cars and Hispanics. and frankly , the profile was a tool gleaned from experience. that may not be politically correct, but statistics bore it out. it wasn't policy, it was experience. i cannot help it if i am in a certain neighborhood and know the demographic of the crack dealers...should i seek them out at a girl scout picnic? and 52 year old white females...i busted so many shoplifting! LOL boy i am in trouble now...i do not mean to stereotype anyone! but i am talking miami here! and drug cartels. and big bucks, and runners, and columbia. i am not going to look at 87 year old guy in his RV going up 95. usually....( BTW German shepards are my favorite breed, have been all my life).

I agree with you Lady Cop. Profiling is used as a practical and real-world tool garnered from experience to let the people who need (and the public *demands) do their jobs.

Everything and everyone in life is profiled. It is how we as humans are able to differentiate dirt from trees, dogs from cats, boys from girls.

Every one of us profiles everyday.

1. Have you ever crossed the street because you saw a person or group of persons and felt threatened?

2. Have you ever called the police? Asked for help? Did you give them a description? How are they able to even move forward without looking for a person matching a profile?

3. Do you believe in Amber alerts? If so, you are profiling people in cars that match the description.

4. Ever get a knock on your door or business late at night? There are two scenarios: a. One is a very large male with a shaved head, gang tattoos, and missing front teeth. b. A 4' 8" tall lovely grandmother type with her church clothes on - and a walker. No profiling allowed. Who do you let in? Impossible? You bet.

Der Wulf · Post by **Der Wulf** » Thu Dec 09, 2004 2:42 pm

Profile -per Webster

"a graph representing the extent to which an individual exhibits traits or abilities as determined by tests or ratings"

Profiling is a tool used by insurance and credit company's to set rates and provide or deny service. You and I use it daily to help decide where to shop, live, go to school or decide what brand to buy.

It is a process in which data is collected, and trends or/and behaviors attributed to events, things, or people. Properly done, it uses only empirical data. It must employ the largest sampling possible, and must consider all relavent attributes.

example: if you wish to profile drug runners on US-000, you cannot make one arrest then conclude that drug runners are primarily 21 yr. old, AS females wearing a yellow bikini, and driving a 3 yr. old purple VW, with a poodle in the passenger seat.

In short, the data must be collected and analyzed professionally. Only empirical data can be used, and all subjectivity denied.

When properly employed, it is a fair, objective, and invaluable tool for military, intelligence, and police operations. It improves efficiency, and saves lives.

Like any tool it can be abused, legal remedy's however, exist in those cases.

To deny the benefit of this tool to the majority, because, of inconvience to a few, would be foolish, irresponsible, and undemocratic.

BTW LADY COP: Being a Wulf I hafta remark; If my imaginary profile were true, I think your drug problem would be over. :p