What is Love?

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:13 pm

I decided to put this, perhaps rhetorical, question to the World Wibe Web. After skipping the sites that wanted to sell me love, I found two sites that figure they know how to calculate it... www.lovetest.com and www.lovecalculator.com for those who are looking for quick answers.

After finding out that none of my suitors are likely to be my true love, :-1 I came upon a more complex, six part study of the subject.

From part one:

Defining Love

Love is a very difficult word to define, perhaps because its reality approaches spiritual dimensions, which are beyond time and space, and thus, our comprehension.

Already I can see religious connections. Is the search for love as complex as the search for God? Can it be found?

Loving others means wanting them to be happy in whatever ways they are guided to their happiness. It breeds understanding, compassion, forgiveness, happiness, excitement, peace, joy, fulfillment and a desire to be helpful in any way we can.

I wonder how many people marry someone they do not love by this definition.

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 3:27 pm

:-2 According to the love test, I have found my perfect soulmate :-2

Then I got... Congratulations! The love thermometer shows a high compatibility based on the names you entered. Your relationship has a high chance to be successful. However you also have to keep working on your relationship. All relationships have ups and downs. Listen to your heart, be honest and talk to your partner - these are the ingredients for a good relationship. On the Love Thermometer

I could be here all night with all these tests Koan :-6

Tombstone · Post by **Tombstone** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:28 pm

Loving others means wanting them to be happy in whatever ways they are guided to their happiness. It breeds understanding, compassion, forgiveness, happiness, excitement, peace, joy, fulfillment and a desire to be helpful in any way we can.

I really like the above quote.

I met the love of my life 21 years ago. Been happily married for almost 18 years.

I've been asked hundreds of times on why our marriage works. The answer is fourfold:

1. Luck. (In terms of finding her.)

2. We became friends - then best friends first. Dating happened after we both knew each other very well.

3. Common interest and values.

4. And as Clint said: "I firmly believe that it is impossible to have joy without being thankful." In other words, I've never taken her for granted - and am thankful for her everyday.

#2 and #3 are important for a strong foundation. #4 keeps that foundation strong and well cared for.

Just my two cents from the peanut gallery.

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:47 pm

Tombstone :-6

It's more like your 4 cents (sense). Actually worth far more. The best advice comes from people who have succeeded. Thanks for sharing...I know I need all the help I can get.

Probably would help if I learn how to cook too. :wah:

CVX · Post by **CVX** » Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:17 pm

I thought you might find this interesting.

Politically Incorrect Advice For Young Men

An Antidote To Feminism

By Henry Makow, PhD

My life was dysfunctional until the age of 50 because I naively accepted the feminist assumptions purveyed by the mass media. I never imagined the financial elite is engaged in a war to destabilize society by trashing heterosexual roles. This hateful attack on the traditional family continues unabated today.

Like millions of men, I was let "off the hook" by sexual liberation and feminism. Instead of becoming a husband and father, I was free to have sex and search for my "identity." Often sex and identity were confused.

I didn't understand that men mature and find identity by assuming the responsibility of marriage and family. As a result, I suffered from arrested emotional development and missed my opportunity to have a family.

What follows is an antidote to elite feminist propaganda. I don't want young men to fall into the same trap.

1. The creation of a strong and loving family is perhaps the highest goal to which a man can aspire. This is the natural process by which men (and women) grow over a lifetime. This is how we find love and intimacy. It isn't for everyone but it is the path to happiness for most.

2. Stop listening to the media, your peer group or parents. "Trust thy self," Emerson says in his essay "Self Reliance." "Who would be a man, must be a nonconformist." What are your instincts telling you? For example, I always knew I wanted to rule my own roost but feminism prohibited this. Obey your instincts.

3. Make your work (not women) your passion. Work is the backbone of a man. Men gain self-confidence from performing a task well, and receiving reward and recognition. Women will try to come between a man and his work but don't let them. Don't let anyone or anything thwart your gift. Women do not respect men who make them their first priority. Your work will keep you on course and help you avoid temptation.

4. Our society makes sex, love and female beauty into a phoney religion in order to distract and manipulate us. Sex and beauty soon become tedious. The magic ends. Real love develops over a long period of time and is based on trust and caring.

5. Do not put beautiful women on a pedestal. They are flawed like everyone else. They are more trouble because of their sense of entitlement. Do not marry someone based on sexual infatuation. I recount this error in my book "A Long Way to go for a Date."

6. Now that I have emerged from the hormonal haze at age 55, I can see that sex is a fraud and really a minor part of life. Sexual frustration is used to distract us while they establish a police state. People wouldn't be frustrated if they got married at a young age as they did in the 1950's and started families. Women should marry and have kids before going to university; men after beginning their careers.

7. Society is addicted to sex. The atmosphere is sexualized. Human relationships have been degraded. The best way to fight sex addiction is to get married. I am now happily married and find outside temptation irritating, like a shrill noise. Call it male menopause: I switch the channel.

8. Do not marry a woman who doesn't make you and her family her first priority. Do you want to share your wife with her boss? If you have an aim in life, why would you marry someone who doesn't support it? Or has a competing agenda? In the marketplace of love, men have the power. Our fertility lasts three times as long as theirs. We are the buyers. There are plenty of fine women, especially if we look abroad.

9. Real women are self-effacing. They put their husbands and their children before themselves. Avoid women who compete, control, criticize or complain. Avoid women who are overachievers. Don't get hung up on unavailable women. Choose a wife who complements you and is a good companion. Choose one who will be a wonderful mother.

10. Being possessive is natural. A man wants to possess a woman. Women want to be possessed. In the act of love, we say a man "possesses" a woman. Total love equals total possession. This is not the same as domination. It is union based on mutual trust.

11. Think of your semen as your unique spirit and essence. Would you entrust it to a vulgar or mediocre woman just because she is attractive? Ideally we would only have sex with women we would want to mother our children. This is why sex was reserved for marriage.

12. The media is doing a number on us regarding children. How often do we see children portrayed in a truly positive light? As the angels they often are? We are rich in proportion to the things we love. The highest love is between husband and wife, and parents and children.

13. Don't waste your time "looking for God." We find God by serving Him, and obeying Him. God speaks through our sense of right and wrong, and ideals of absolute truth justice and love. We are not men if we refuse to sacrifice our "selves" to God (i.e. obey). Truth is liberating even if the truth is about our present bondage.

Some of this was common knowledge when I was a child in the 1950's. Over the years the elite has gradually undermined our understanding of the natural order. It is still doing so by promoting homosexuality, which includes lesbianism in the guise of feminism.

An establishment that sows fear and confusion between the sexes, and promotes promiscuity and family breakdown, does not have the country's best interest at heart. Our feminist political, cultural and economic "leaders" are moral whores, dupes and traitors. We resist them by building strong healthy families and giving our children wholesome values.

-----------

See also Makow, "Managing the Male Sex Drive"

http://www.savethemales.ca/000535.html

Henry Makow Ph.D. is the inventor of the board game Scruples and the author of "A Long Way to go for a Date." His essays exposing feminism and the New World Order are found at his web site http://www.savethemales.ca/

He welcomes feedback at Henryatsavethemales.ca Some of your emails may be posted using first name only.

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 5:25 am

Have to tell you a little story from last night, I know it was more that circumstances allowed this, but I think it's so sweet.

Yesterday evening, my dad and I had a BIG fight, and after I was so upset I ranted about it in blog, last night my man came round and the first thing he did was hug me. Then this morning he sat and spoke to me about it, trying to go through all the possibilities for the fight and my dads behaviour.

Even though we both have issues about relationships, we support each other in most things, even if that just means picking up the phone and talking about something else, or listening to the other rant.

We've had a few arguements over the short 10 months we've been together but we work through them, strangely our big rows have never involved talking either face-to-face or over the phone, but through text and IM's where neither of us can yell and scream at each other and we have to think about what we really want to say rather than just come out with something hurtful in the heat of the moment. We still talk about it after.

There seems to be more understanding between us than even my friends understand.

A Karenina · Post by **A Karenina** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:43 am

What is scary, CVX, is that some people really think this way.

What is good is that women like myself get to leave the cage designed by men like that.

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:11 am

As I said in response to Tombstone, the best advice comes from people who have succeeded. At the start of Dr. Makow's "rant" he expresses failure. Then we are left wondering why? In this case I don't wonder why for very long. :wah:

I do believe that work should be important, but I think it is important for both the man and woman to have jobs that they enjoy.

This is less advice for what love is than instructions to a man on how to enforce a relationship that can fool people into thinking they are happy. There are some women that want to be controlled and told what to do, but I have found there are also some men who want the same.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:29 am

Love is (GIVE) and not (TAKE). How about a Big Hug? Everyone needs a big hug once in awhile, hugs are free, just give them.

jahamaa · Post by **jahamaa** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:15 pm

Love is presented to us when we are ALONE. If there is no love when your alone you won't find it anywhere else. If it isn't present when your by yourself no one else is, going to bring it to you, no that's not right, no one can bring it to you.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:22 pm

Love is stored in the heart, you experience love, (when you are alone), never thought about it, in anticipation of your loved ones returning home at the end of their work day? Whether it is a hug, or a thought, love is in the (eye) of the beholder. if you feel alone, there are many things to do to interact with people, eventually you will find some-one or something you love to do? okay?

jahamaa · Post by **jahamaa** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:30 pm

Paula wrote: Love is stored in the heart, you experience love, (when you are alone), never thought about it, in anticipation of your loved ones returning home at the end of their work day? Whether it is a hug, or a thought, love is in the (eye) of the beholder. if you feel alone, there are many things to do to interact with people, eventually you will find some-one or something you love to do? okay?

Paula, what I mean by feeling love when your alone is that no one can complete you. Too many people view the heart as something with a hole in it that someone else can fill and that is not true. If your not complete by yourself no love will ever be satisfying. Someone else can add to the love in your heart but they cannot complete it. If your and I use the rhetorical your, not feeling whole you need to find that thing that is your life and the rest will fall into place.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:03 pm

we are in the forum garden; are you a bleeding heart, (very pretty late spring perennial), or, are you a chive, an herb that has an oniony fragrance with pink spikes? Identify you as a plant in the garden? lets get to the point... :guitarist

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:03 pm

we are in the forum garden; are you a bleeding heart, (very pretty late spring perennial), or, are you a chive, an herb that has an oniony fragrance with pink spikes? Identify your-self as a plant in the garden? lets get to the point... :guitarist

persephone · Post by **persephone** » Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:57 pm

It is generally the case that if you are not happy with yourself it's bloody difficult to find a partner, as you project how you are feeling, and people tend to pick up on that.

By that I do not mean you have to be vain, just confident and secure in yourself.

I think most bad relationships occure when you don't, and you either meet someone who takes advantage of that vulnerability or you end up latching on to the person out of a feeling of need that only they can make you feel more confdent.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:47 am

What is love. An interesting topic to discuss.

Lovetest, lovecalculator, are we trying to define love as a commodity or a feeling?

MiwSher · Post by **MiwSher** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:51 pm

letha wrote: It is generally the case that if you are not happy with yourself it's bloody difficult to find a partner, as you project how you are feeling, and people tend to pick up on that.

By that I do not mean you have to be vain, just confident and secure in yourself.

I think most bad relationships occure when you don't, and you either meet someone who takes advantage of that vulnerability or you end up latching on to the person out of a feeling of need that only they can make you feel more confdent.

I agree completely, letha. This is something I really need to work on, especially since recently coming out of a very painful long-term relationship myself.

MiwSher

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 3:20 pm

God is love. To love someone is to show them the love of God.

1 Corinthians chapter 13 is called the "Love chapter." Recommended reading for anyone who wants to know what love is. :-6

koan · Post by **koan** » Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:57 pm

Good to hear from you again, Telequapacky.

I agree with the members who say that you can't find love until you love yourself.

:guitarist Lookin' for love in all the wrong places...

Advice most often given: You won't find love until you stop looking for it.

The calculator and the test are fun but exist for people who can't validate their own feelings. Why can't people figure out what they feel? I think this is a very real problem. We doubt our feelings and are afraid to wait around for something that may never come. On the other hand, if we love unconditionally but with self respect we can only gain from romantic encounters.

Of course "we" is used as a generalization. But I am the type that everyone tells their problems to and this generalization applies to 70% of the romantic problems I have heard...including my own.

koan · Post by **koan** » Thu Nov 25, 2004 12:23 am

KlatunIckto :-6

You said something kind of optimistic!

It is nice to hear you talk of love like you recall the feeling.

BTW where have you been? And I feel like you should write me another poem.

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 4:34 pm

TOMBSTONE,

You know true love. May we all experience this in our life time..!! :-4

I met the love of my life 21 years ago. Been happily married for almost 18 years.

I've been asked hundreds of times on why our marriage works. The answer is fourfold:

1. Luck. (In terms of finding her.)

2. We became friends - then best friends first. Dating happened after we both knew each other very well.

3. Common interest and values.

4. And as Clint said: "I firmly believe that it is impossible to have joy without being thankful." In other words, I've never taken her for granted - and am thankful for her everyday.

#2 and #3 are important for a strong foundation. #4 keeps that foundation strong and well cared for.

Just my two cents from the peanut gallery. :-4

Working with families with Alzheimer's I see love, devotion, sacrifice, pain, joy, and tolerance. I get tears in my eyes when a elderly man bringing his wife in who has the disease ( or the wife bringing the husband in) to find out how he/she can better care for her/him at home. Listening to him describe the love of his life, and how they met, married, and had children. All the time looking at him/her holding hands. Then he look at me and says, shes as beautiful today as the day I married her..!! I get goose bump just thinking about it..!! Such love I hope to find someday..!!!

valerie · Post by **valerie** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 5:23 pm

Bless you, Carla for working with families with Alzheimer's... and that is

exactly the way to put it. Families.

My Mom has this disease, and my sister and I were talking the other day

about how much Mom and Dad love each other. We never really knew

before, but we do now, and that's what's important.

He cared for her all by himself for almost 3 years, an exhausting task.

Last April, she was moved into a care facility, it turned out to be a

wonderful place. When my Dad went to visit, the people there commented

to my sister about how in love our parents are.

I know I have a deep, abiding love with my husband. I don't need to take

any test to tell me that.

:-4

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Sat Nov 27, 2004 6:01 pm

:-4 Valerie,

You are blessed. May you, and your family remain strong through your mothers illness.

In the words of : Beverly Bigtree Murphy, Caregiver

I wish you all strength, creativity, humor, and support when you need it.

Hopefully some day soon there will be a cure for ALZHEIMER'S everyone working with families hopes, and prays its soon.

beautyful · Post by **beautyful** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 4:47 am

I've always been told and its very true, that love comes when you least expect it. when you stop looking for it then it'll come along and in the most unexpected places and ways. no-one can tell you how to love or what is right (as I have learnt in the past) you've got to live it and figure it out for yourself. you can't force it either but its great when it happens

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:27 am

beautyful wrote: I've always been told and its very true, that love comes when you least expect it. when you stop looking for it then it'll come along and in the most unexpected places and ways. no-one can tell you how to love or what is right (as I have learnt in the past) you've got to live it and figure it out for yourself. you can't force it either but its great when it happens

I wonder that love comes from where, as something comes to you when you do not have it. There is no time in peoples' life when they do not have it. Modern thinking has almost made love a commodity.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 5:41 am

Tombstone wrote: .....I met the love of my life 21 years ago.....

I have picked up this most interesting sentence from your very nice message. I get an impression that you are restricting love to between husband and wife only. What about love between any two people?

beautyful · Post by **beautyful** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:32 am

there are many types of love in a person's life and yet these days the only love that seems worthy of talking about or making a big deal about is that love between a man and a woman in a relationship

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:17 am

beautyful wrote: there are many types of love in a person's life and yet these days the only love that seems worthy of talking about or making a big deal about is that love between a man and a woman in a relationship

Do you mean by using the phrase - 'the only love that seems worthy of talking about or making a big deal about', that other types of love are not worthy of talking about or making a big deal about? I think that all types of love are important. One type of love can not be discriminated against another type of love.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:22 am

WARNING!!!we cannot forget GAY people, they will be hurt by the comment??? Be extremely careful about love, it is about all people? i believe men and women make the best matches, unfortunately we can be looked down as (selfish) even though we know we are the NORM...Love, you can just feel it...and yes i am married to a man, and i am a female.

i can't help it, thats the way I WAS BORN! :-6

beautyful · Post by **beautyful** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:22 am

Suresh Gupta wrote: Do you mean by using the phrase - 'the only love that seems worthy of talking about or making a big deal about', that other types of love are not worthy of talking about or making a big deal about? I think that all types of love are important. One type of love can not be discriminated against another type of love.

By this comment I only meant that this is how it seems these days,I was not saying that this is how I feel, nothing can surpass the love one experiences with one's parents or even love between friends. there is nothing better than knowing that you are loved and that someone out there is thinking of you and loving you

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:28 am

Paula wrote: WARNING!!!we cannot forget GAY people, they will be hurt by the comment??? Be extremely careful about love, it is about all people? i believe men and women make the best matches, unfortunately we can be looked down as (selfish) even though we know we are the NORM...Love, you can just feel it...and yes i am married to a man, and i am a female.

i can't help it, thats the way I WAS BORN! :-6

No offence meant but the concept of being gay is an abnormal human trait. But that does not mean that such people do not love each other.

beautyful · Post by **beautyful** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:37 am

Suresh Gupta wrote: No offence meant but the concept of being gay is an abnormal human trait. But that does not mean that such people do not love each other.

How can you say that being gay is abnormal? who are you to say what is normal? there is no concrete definition of normal and it is not fair to say that just because you are not gay that they are abnormal, just because they do not conform to your way of living

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:47 am

beautyful wrote: How can you say that being gay is abnormal? who are you to say what is normal? there is no concrete definition of normal and it is not fair to say that just because you are not gay that they are abnormal, just because they do not conform to your way of living

Please don't get angry. It is my opinion. You are entitled to your opinion.

beautyful · Post by **beautyful** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 8:51 am

yes you are right you are entitled to your own opinion even if it is highly offensive and the use of such a word as 'abnormal' is unnecessary. just because you think it is wrong does not mean you can be offensive

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Sun Nov 28, 2004 9:07 am

beautyful wrote: yes you are right you are entitled to your own opinion even if it is highly offensive and the use of such a word as 'abnormal' is unnecessary. just because you think it is wrong does not mean you can be offensive

You are still angry. I have very clearly stated that I do not mean any offence. But if you insist on taking it as an offence then I am sorry I can not help it. I have no time, energy and resources to engage in arguments on a non-issue. Bye.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:41 am

elifo wrote: When we stand together

It's our finest hour.

We can do anything, anything, anything, anything,

Keep believing in love's power.

Love can build a bridge

Between your heart and mine

Love can build a bridge

Don't you think it's time?

Love Can Build A Bridge, (N. Judge, J. Jaruis, P Overstreet).

A nice poem. Makes one believe in the power of love.

minks · Post by **minks** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:25 pm

What is love:

Well it is when you look at a person and you picture them holding your heart in their hand and trusting them to handle it with the utmost of care.

minks · Post by **minks** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:56 pm

I am sooooo not going there

I won't be baited

I won't

I won't

:yh_angel

minks · Post by **minks** » Tue Dec 14, 2004 4:03 pm

very much so

or when your teen still wants to hang out with you

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:09 pm

KlatunIckto wrote: actually the older i get the more i believe it to be an illusion of sorts.

it is when one allows the weakness of the passion or the weakness of ones intermost feelings to take control over the logical or reasoning nature.

also it could be when we grow so accustomed to someone that being away from or without them we feel strange only because it is new.

Love is real, can't be an illusion. It makes people strong.

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Wed Dec 15, 2004 9:12 pm

minks wrote: What is love: Well it is when you look at a person and you picture them holding your heart in their hand and trusting them to handle it with the utmost of care.

A nice thought, trusting someone with your life. This is love no doubt.

LottomagicZ4941 · Post by **LottomagicZ4941** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:35 am

Nazareth "Sometimes I feal that love is just mythical"

Lotto

http://www.flalottomagic.net/cgi-local/ ... elcome-344

MagicZ4941

Suresh Gupta · Post by **Suresh Gupta** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 5:46 am

LottomagicZ4941 wrote: Nazareth "Sometimes I feal that love is just mythical"

I feel it is also real.

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 10:56 am

Love is never having to say your sorry!

minks · Post by **minks** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 12:42 pm

Paula wrote: Love is never having to say your sorry!

Oh I don't believe that for a second

If you love somebody you certainly do say sorry to them alot.