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I know this should probably go in the Pet section - but I really wanted a lot of people to see this and watch the show if they have HBO.

On Feb. 21, HBO will be showing America Undercover - Dealing Dogs. It is an expose on Class B dog dealers in the United States and the "kennel" that is used in the undercover footage is of the largest Class B dealer in the country. Thanks to the undercover agent and the footage he got, the dealer has been shut down, he has lost his land, is facing jail time (for fraud - not for animal abuse!) and was fined of $200,000.

I know that in the State of Michigan there is a Class B dealer that has contracts with several different counties to "dispose" of "unadoptable" animals in county shelters. Often, he pulls animals out before the state mandated time limit to sell for research and the methods that he uses to destroy animals that are not usable for research are beyond barbaric.

I don't have HBO so I don't think I will be able to watch. I am trying to find someone to tape it for me. I would love to see a discussion afterwards though.

LD, I would LOVE to see this and I do have HBO.

I will tape it and make a copy, if you like. PM me your address, and you've got it.

Thank You so much!

BTW - from what I have read - you really don't want to eat before you watch this.

LilacDragon wrote: Thank You so much!



BTW - from what I have read - you really don't want to eat before you watch this.
It's not a problem at all.

However, as you have probably heard me say many times before, I was a vet tech for 5 years, it's impossible to gross me out. We used to eat our lunch outside the surgery suite at one clinic so we were close by if the Dr. needed help. Try eating a kielbasa and having the surgery taking place be a pyometria. (Infected uterus.) We used to break in newbies by sending them in to surgery to see the grossest stuff. If they didn't hurl, they got to stay. :yh_rotfl

You are a better woman than I! And yet, similar. Sick and twisted! I like that!

LilacDragon wrote: You are a better woman than I! And yet, similar. Sick and twisted! I like that!
Not better. Never better. I just happen to have a stronger stomach! :yh_bigsmi

I don't have HBO, not that I fancy watching anything that displays the type of abuse that I imagine it to be from your post, Lilac. I would certainly like to hear a summary though, after you have watched it.

OpenMind wrote: I don't have HBO, not that I fancy watching anything that displays the type of abuse that I imagine it to be from your post, Lilac. I would certainly like to hear a summary though, after you have watched it.
Puppy mills are a sick, and all too common occurrence. Most pet stores get their stock from puppy mills. I am very excited to see this show and watch one of these @ssholes taken down.

I have HBO not sure I will watch it, my stomach can't take the cruelty. :-1

Technically, it isn't about mills but if memory serves, C.C. Baird may have been a "commercial breeder" before he got into the selling of research dogs.

I realize that the content might be a bit much for some to watch - but the sad fact is that until things like this are shown in graphic detail, nobody pays any attention to the fact that it is going on. Personally, I hope that the ratings for this show are very high and I hope that it is graphic. Maybe enough people will be moved enough to at least write a letter to their congressmen/women and those in office might actually realize that some people DO care.

BabyRider wrote: Puppy mills are a sick, and all too common occurrence. Most pet stores get their stock from puppy mills. I am very excited to see this show and watch one of these @ssholes taken down.


Does that apply even here in England, BR?

LilacDragon wrote: Technically, it isn't about mills but if memory serves, C.C. Baird may have been a "commercial breeder" before he got into the selling of research dogs.



I realize that the content might be a bit much for some to watch - but the sad fact is that until things like this are shown in graphic detail, nobody pays any attention to the fact that it is going on. Personally, I hope that the ratings for this show are very high and I hope that it is graphic. Maybe enough people will be moved enough to at least write a letter to their congressmen/women and those in office might actually realize that some people DO care.


I have often seen TV programmes that have revealed the conditions of animals in research stations and similar. How about chickens on the battery production run, where most of their diseases are generated. It seems to me that people in general just don't give a toss for their animal counterparts.

OpenMind wrote: Does that apply even here in England, BR?


Absolutely!

Every ETHICAL breeder that I know, breeds one, maybe two litters a year. their dogs have been shown in conformation and some working venue (obedience, agility, etc.) and have had extensive health tests done - above and beyond taking the dog to the vet and being told that it is healthy. Getting a puppy from one of these breeders is much like adopting a child. They breed to continue the breed and DO NOT want to sell sick dogs or dogs with genetic defects and they DO NOT want any of their puppies to end up in shelters. It isn't about the money - any ETHICAL breeder will tell you that by the time the parents are old enough to breed and been proven worthy of breeding, both physically and mentally, they have spent a small fortune and add to that the cost of having a litter of pups - they don't do this to make money.

People who raise dogs to stock pet stores are in it for the money. Even a "good" commercial kennel cuts every available corner so that they don't spend more money then they make. This means less vet care, poor quality food, breeding every time a female comes into season and many more things I won't mention. If you want to learn more about puppy mills, pm me and I can send you an excellent link or two.

Wow. Just got done watching it. I am sickened, disgusted, p!ssed, revolted, angry, livid.

What an incredible program. Yes, it was VERY graphic.

C.C. Baird ran the operation on 700 acres of land. Anywhere from 400 to 600 dogs were kept on the property in outdoor runs, 4 dogs to a run, year-round. He bought dogs from anyone willing to sell them, usually paying no more than $20 for each dog. He sold them to research facilities for around $250 each.

The animal rights group (I'm sorry, I'm so infuriated right now I don't recall the organizations name) infiltrated the farm with a guy named Pete. He wore a hidden camera and microphone to record the atrocities that occurred here.

He was hired as a general worker, assigned to "clean" the runs and feed the dogs. The method of cleaning used was to start at one end of the chain link enclosures, use a high-pressure hose and rinse the runs down. The dogs had no where to get away from the freezing water or flying sh!t, so they ended up covered in it, it went into their food and water bowls, (when the water bowls weren't frozen solid, which was common.) Then they lay there, soaked and sh!t covered, in freezing weather. The floors were nothing but cement, with no padding or bedding available. Many dogs fought among themselves for food, and many suffered injuries that were not treated.

I remember one particular dog they brought in, and one of the usual workers said it was a biter. The undercover guy went to the dog, offering his hand, which the dog, a cocker spaniel simply sniffed. To "prove" the dog was a biter, the worker grabbed the dog by the nape of the neck and shoved it's face to the ground. THEN the dog tried to bite him. The solution for biters at this farm? A .22 to the head, which they showed. The sick f*ck that shot the dog seemed to particulary enjoy that aspect of his job. The bodies of the dogs that are shot or die some other hideous way are tossed under a board, till they can be taken to a section of the farm that is basically a compost pile for the animals to rot in.

Another "treatment" provided by the farm is to dip the dogs in a solution to prevent mange. How is this carried out, you ask? First I'll tell you how it is supposed to be carried out. Pyrethrin, (not sure I spelled it right) is a powerful parasite killer and to use it correctly, you mix 5 ml's into a gallon of water and sponge it onto the dog, soaking it to the skin. When we had to use the dip at the clinics, we would put an ointment into the dog's eye's to protect them from the wicked burning stuff and close the ears with cotton stuffing. It is highly irritating to human skin and we had to wear gloves, and surgical gowns to work with it. When used correctly, it is highly effective. The method used at the farm? 3 gallons of the pyrethrin in a tank of water about 3 feet deep and 4 feet across. Grab the dog by it's leash, swing it around once to get good height, and toss the entire dog into the tank, completely submerging it. They performed the treatment outdoors, in the cold, so as soon as the dog was brought out, it went immediately into shock and could not walk. So, they were dragged, not carried, back to their runs and tossed in till they regained conciousness.

Approximately 5 to 8 dogs a week were found dead in their runs in the 5 months Pete was working undercover there. He gathered 70 hours of film to hand over to the prosecutors, showing each and every heinous act committed by these "people."

It still took over 2 years for the investigators to do their jobs and raid the property. The Bairds ended up losing all their land, including their home, were fined $260,000, and are facing further charges, such as money laundering and mail fraud. C.C. Baird himself is facing 10 years in prison and a further $1.2 million in fines.

The good news? Every single dog seized from this property was treated, and adopted.

I have a particular State Representative that I would like to show this to.

The fact is that C.C. Baird is not the exception to the rule. When it comes to Class B dealers, the things shown in this documentary are how things are done. Bunchers have been caught stealing dogs from fenced in yards. The Class B dealer that operates in Michigan uses a hose from his truck exhaust to destroy "unadoptable" animals and animals he can not sell to research labs. He does this by stuffing the dog in a 50 gallon drum, slapping the lid on and putting the hose in a hole in the drum.

Oh, and if the dog doesn't fit in the drum - he will break as many bones necessary to make it fit!

If this is how we allow our animals to be treated, is it any wonder that the world is in the condition that it is in?

The thing that really bothers me about this? This is supposed to be an FDA governed type of operation. The business of buying dogs and selling them to research labs is, sadly, legal. But the people meant to keep track of the dealers and ensure the humane treatment of the dogs are not doing their jobs. One example? The seller must have proof that he or she raised the dog they are selling. The Bairds do not even ask the question. They (the undercovers) talked to bunchers and had the conversations on video, (secretly, of course) and these people admitted to stealing dogs from yards, grabbing strays off the streets, etc. One particular bitch bragged about the fact that she paid off her house selling dogs to C.C. Baird. She actually had the nerve to say she sometimes felt "kind of guilty, thinking it might be some kid's pet" but did she stop doing it? Of course not!!

There was one "inspection" by the FDA while Pete was undercover, and the inspector was there for a brief time, glanced into cages and runs, (the dogs all cowered at the backs of the runs, so he couldn't really get a look at any of them) did not open one run or put his hands on a single dog.

They are particularly fond of heartworm positive dogs at the farm. Why? Because they are very valuable for research. Unfortunately, all they use is the infected heart, so the dog is shot in the head, butchered on a table in a field to retreive the heart, and tossed into the compost pile.

Another bit of sick irony? C.C. Baird is an ordained minister with his own church.

C.C. Baird is an ordained minister with his own church.




Not anymore.

Unbelievable, I just saw this... I know this sort of thing goes on all the time and everywhere...

I'd also like to bring up that some the people that are supposedly rescuing dogs from owners are actually stealing dogs from owners and selling them to places like this CC Baird facility, as well... who can you trust?

G-man wrote: who can you trust?
No one. Period.



LilacDragon wrote:

Not anymore.


Thankfully. I should have said "was." :yh_bigsmi

BabyRider



Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: My Dale Carnegie class....



Posts: 5,583







Re: HBO - America Undercover

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-man

who can you trust?



No one. Period.

take that back!!

lady cop wrote: BabyRider



Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: My Dale Carnegie class....



Posts: 5,583







Re: HBO - America Undercover

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-man

who can you trust?



No one. Period.

take that back!!
There is an exception to every rule. You are my exception to that rule, and you know it. I'd trust you with my life, and you know that, too. :-4

same here. ...hey, you know daytona bike week starts march 1, i want you to come on down!! :-6

lady cop wrote: same here. ...hey, you know daytona bike week starts march 1, i want you to come on down!! :-6
I really, REALLY want to, but there is no way possible this year. Most of our money is going to the lawyer. We're not even going to Pig-fest this year.

But watch for us in July!!!!!

BabyRider wrote: I really, REALLY want to, but there is no way possible this year. Most of our money is going to the lawyer. We're not even going to Pig-fest this year.

But watch for us in July!!!!!yep, i'll have the radar out!

SnoozeControl wrote: I've been aware of animal cruelty since I was a child, and in my faint hearted way, I donate to organizations to end it. I'm crying just after reading this thread, so I don't think I could make it through the HBO show.

Does anyone that's seen this show remember the organization that infiltrated this guy?


That would be Last Chance For Animals out of California.

LilacDragon wrote: That would be Last Chance For Animals out of California.
Thanks for remembering for me, LD.

The man who infiltrated, "Pete", was a really amazing guy. Being an animal rights activist, he was able to put himself into a role that required him to ignore the cruel treatment of these dogs. He had to live in a sh!t-hole for the months he was there, he is a vegan, but had to play the role and not bring any suspicion onto himself, so he ate meat, he did whatever it took to bust this scumbag and his family. I was very impressed with him.

The images from that show will stay with me a long, long time.

I don't think I could have watched this show without losing something. Wouldn't it be wonderful to exercise the ancient law of an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. I would love to see those people involved, (nay, they are lower than reptiles) treated exactly as they treated their charges.

And, yes, this goes against my signature. But I would be able to watch that with smug satisfaction that justice had been served.

OpenMind wrote: I don't think I could have watched this show without losing something. Wouldn't it be wonderful to exercise the ancient law of an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. I would love to see those people involved, (nay, they are lower than reptiles) treated exactly as they treated their charges.

And, yes, this goes against my signature. But I would be able to watch that with smug satisfaction that justice had been served.
I agree with you, OM. And so what if it goes against your sig line?? We're talking about defenseless animals here. What humans do to other humans is bad enough, what humans are capable of doing to a dumb animal is just revolting.

Bullet was wondering how, being the dog lover that I am, could I watch this. I said, "To learn." It was difficult. But it was also eye-opening. If all we ever see is the pretty things in life, we are ill-prepared for when reality snaps us back.

When I said that they were lower than reptiles, I did an injustice to reptiles. Some reptiles I have seen are some of the most beautiful things to behold on this Earth. They are lower than a cow pat, and even that serves a useful purpose.