ForumGarden

There is a discussion going on FG about belief in God. Most of the FG members say that they believe in God. There may be some who do not believe in God. This thread is for those who believe in Him and have been posting messages how they perceive Him.

Have you noticed that most of time people only think and talk about how they feel about God? But have we ever thought that how God perceives us? What he thinks about us? Whether he is happy or unhappy with us? Each one of us want that God should be happy with us, but what are we doing to make Him happy?

These are some thoughts I have been nursing for some time. I then thought that I should initiate a thread on this topic for FG members to put their views about it. Who is going to be the first to start discussing? :-6

God loves us very much. I am often grieved when I become aware that I am not able as a finite human being to love Him back as much as He loves me. But He knows me, and He understands, and knowing that makes me feel better. My relationship with God isn’t about my performance or perfection- it is all about His. But I have to remind myself about this often, because my occasional failure to do the things that please Him hurts me more than Him. Our relationship exists because of His mercy, not my obedience. Yet it makes me want to obey Him out of love, much more than I would want to obey if He were standing over me with a stick.

I don’t know what it means for God to be happy or unhappy with us. Many of us are trained to think God frowns on us when we do wrong and smiles on us when we do right, as if His love were conditional and changing all the time. Certainly God wants us to do right, because He wants us to be happy, and He knows that we will be happiest if we do what is right. Like a parent, He may be disappointed when we do wrong, but not because He has stopped loving us, but because our disobedience thwarts His plans to give us peace and happiness. He only wants the best for us.

telaquapacky wrote: God loves us very much.......... God wants us to do right, because He wants us to be happy, and He knows that we will be happiest if we do what is right. Like a parent, He may be disappointed when we do wrong, but not because He has stopped loving us, but because our disobedience thwarts His plans to give us peace and happiness. He only wants the best for us.


What a wonderful peace of writing. I really enjoyed reading it. During few seconds I read your message I felt that I was with God. Thanks.

Suresh Gupta wrote: During few seconds I read your message I felt that I was with God.


I don't have to tell you, I know you know, we are always in the presence of God. We have more opportunities to be aware of His presence than we take advantage of. Yesterday someone told me he talks to God while he is driving. I have recently started doing this myself.

About how God perceives us, I have heard that God is not bound by time as we are. There is this moment we call the present. Just a moment ago, and stretching back behind us is the past, which gets dimmer and fades from our view. We are moving into the future, which, apart from our plans is a total mystery to us. I have heard that God is not that way. He lives and perceives continually in the whole time line of the universe from eternity past to eternity future. He has all eternity past and future to hear the prayer you pray today. He remembers the prayers that we have forgotten, and knows what we will ask before we ask it. This is why some of the answers of our prayers are things that took years to develop, and God started answering them long ago. This view seems to explain God's behavior, and is consistent with His being the Eternal One.

We might be tempted to ask then, why some prayers seem to take so long to be answered. God's timing is always perfect. His purposes know no haste and no delay. It is we who are in a hurry because we are short-sighted and finite.

telaquapacky wrote: ......We are always in the presence of God. We have more opportunities to be aware of His presence than we take advantage of....About how God perceives us, I have heard that God is not bound by time as we are.....He lives and perceives continually .... His purposes know no haste and no delay. It is we who are in a hurry because we are short-sighted and finite.


You have written a beautiful piece about what is your perception of God. But you have missed the main question - How God perceives you? Please favour me with what you think God thinks about you.

Suresh Gupta wrote: ...you have missed the main question - How God perceives you? Please favour me with what you think God thinks about you.


What I meant was, there is a part of me God can perceive that I can't. I only know myself today and yesterday. God knows me tomorrow as well. He knows everything I will ever say, pray or do. When I make a promise to Him, He knows whether I will keep it or not. When I ask a favor of Him, He knows how sincerely I want it by whether I will act tomorrow consistently with the desires I express today.

God perceives me today not as I am today but what I will ultimately be as the finished product of His grace. God's intention for every one of us is that we will allow His Spirit to dwell in us so that we may grow to have a loving, generous character like His. Because this is His will for every one of us, He treats every human being as if they already were the perfect, finished product of His grace, whether that person will ultimately end up that way or not. God loves every one of us as His dearest child, the apple of His eye, so that in the end, He will have done everything in His power to help us find the right path in life. To God there is no such thing as a person without potential, nor a person not worth the effort to lavish His infinite love on.

telaquapacky wrote: What I meant was, there is a part of me God can perceive that I can't. ...........


My dear telaquapacky, I really love your messages. But you are still missing the point. The purpose of starting this thread was that people should look at them from outside to inside and think what God will think about their actions in day-to-day life. It will give them an opportunity to know themselves. Let me share with you an experiece.

One day my immediate boss informed me that the chief boss was not happy with me and had cancelled an important assignment given to me. When I asked him about the reason he told me with immense satisfaction that he is the reason. As he was not happy with me so he had made a complaint to the chief against me. I simply told him that I was sorry for him because God does not perceive him as a good person. He looked confused.

I was surprised when after a week he came to me and told me that he had been thinking about what I said to him. He had not been able to find a single incident in his entire life when he did good to someone. He was very much disturbed that God has never considered him fit to use him for doing good to others. The term he used was that God had blacklisted him. I could only tell him that now he should start thinking positive and God will certainly put him in His list of people through whom He does good to others. But this incident has strengthened my belief in God and that we should always try to do good to others to earn a place in His whilelist.

Suresh, you are like one of my college professors who, every time I was satisfied with what I had written, he told me, “You can do better than that.” Thank you for challenging me to think deeper! Unforunately, I am finding that I cannot talk about how God perceives us without also talking about how we perceive Him. Because God wants a relationship with us, I find it difficult to talk about one side of it independent of the other.

The strongest emotion God has is His desire for us. God created us for companionship, and that is what He desires of us. Everything God created is good- He made nothing faulty. Even Satan was faultless when God created him. All the rocks and trees were perfect, but as much as God loved them, they are unable to love Him back. God’s desire could only be satisfied with companionship and admiration that is voluntary, by choice. To have beings that He could have a satisfying, loving companionship with, He had to create them with two things- one, the ability to choose not to love him- that is, the capacity to rebel, and two, He had to create them with a limited perception.

Most people can understand why a capacity to rebel, and the freedom of choice is needed for genuine, voluntary love that would satisfy God’s desire for companionship, but why would we need limited perception? One would think that to see God and know God fully, as He is, you would certainly love Him. There are a few problems with this. We can experience His spiritual presence, but not His physical presence- not yet, anyway. The practical problem is that God is too holy, too powerful and too divine for us in our present, fallen flesh form to see Him and live. He dwells in unapproachable light. His physical presence would be to us as a consuming fire. Our own speech is so corrupted by selfishness that our prayers and communications to Him have to be translated by His Spirit to a form acceptable to his ears. There is a major communication barrier between imperfect, temporal man and the perfect, eternal God. So another emotion God feels toward us is the careful emotion we feel when we handle a fragile, premature baby or a wounded bird, or butterfly wings. God knows He has to be extremely gentle with us, and find some safe way to expose Himself to us, or He will overwhelm us by the brightness and intensity of His presence. For our own safety, our perception of Him must be filtered somehow, like looking at the noonday sun through a dense, filtered glass (which, by the way, I don’t recommend because even that isn’t enough protection).

Another emotion God feels towards us is a caution not to act toward us in a way that would corrupt us. It would be nice, if seeing God as He really is, we would love Him, but this is not fully possible because people are attracted to powerful persons for the wrong reasons. If God stood in the sky and shouted aloud to us (as if this were possible without killing us) people would then obey Him out of fear and/or selfishness. If our motive for obeying or worshipping God is fear or selfishness, eventually we would become rebellious- even our obedience would be disobedience masquerading as obedience.

Another emotion God has towards us is a feeling of being misunderstood. There are important aspects of God we could not perceive if we were to see Him sitting on the throne of the universe in awesome splendor and absolute power. We could never perceive His humility or His meekness. For us to know Him fully, He would have to veil His divinity in a form that we could see and touch. We could only experience His humility and graciousness, and fully exercise the freedom to hurt Him and reject Him, if He were able to manifest Himself in a form like ours, vulnerable to us- sort of like the king who sneaks out of the palace and walks the street without a body guard, dressed in commoner’s clothes. Then He could show individuals the humility and lowliness they could never see while He wears His royal robes and is surrounded by armed soldiers. In His kingly form, people would tell Him just what they thought He wanted to hear. But if He came to us in a form like ours, it would be exposed who really loves Him, and who is merely pretending in order to gain his favor.

Your experience with your unkind co-worker to me is an example of God exposing Himself to that man through you. Your reaction to him was humble enough to soften his heart, praise God. In effect, you told him, “I can see that you are pleased with yourself, but have you thought about whether your actions are pleasing to God?” You helped him to see that he has lived a life outside of relationship with God, in rebellion, serving himself, rather than serving God. You helped your co-worker to realize how he frustrates God’s desire to use him to expose Himself to others through mercy and kindness, how your co-workers actions not only isolate himself from others, but they contribute to the isolation between God and man, as all unloving acts always do.

Some people think God hates the wicked, and can hardly wait to roast them in the fire. In reality, God’s perception of the wicked is much like the emotions of a jilted lover. It would seem beneath His dignity, but He pines wretchedly over the souls of those He dearly loves, but who have rejected and spurned His love. Do you know what God’s wrath is? It is that eventually He will have to say to those who have rejected Him, “Though it breaks my heart, I have to let you go.” Some people think God says, “I hope you love me, otherwise I shall have to roast you over the fires of hell for eternity…Now do you love me?” That is absurdity. Voltaire has said that if someone can convince you of absurdities, they can make you commit atrocities. Many world religions have operated on the absurd premise that God hates the wicked, and have as a result frustrated God terribly and caused mankind great suffering. God is an ardent suitor who fondly wishes to win our love by drawing us by His gracious love, compassion, humility and magnanimity. This is the only way toward knowing God as He knows us.

[QUOTE=telaquapacky]Suresh, you are like one of my college professors who, every time I was satisfied with what I had written, he told me, “You can do better than that.”

If you want me to differ with you write something with which you yourself are not satisfied.

[QUOTE]Thank you for challenging me to think deeper! Unforunately, I am finding that I cannot talk about how God perceives us without also talking about how we perceive Him. Because God wants a relationship with us, I find it difficult to talk about one side of it independent of the other.[QUOYE]

No problem, keep on thinking about God and He will grant you Wisdom, the ultimate knowledge.

[QUOTE]The strongest emotion God has is His desire for us. God created us for companionship, and that is what He desires of us. Everything God created is good-He made nothing faulty. Even Satan was faultless when God created him. All the rocks and trees were perfect, but as much as God loved them, they are unable to love Him back. God’s desire could only be satisfied with companionship and admiration that is voluntary, by choice. To have beings that He could have a satisfying, loving companionship with, He had to create them with two things- one, the ability to choose not to love him- that is, the capacity to rebel, and two, He had to create them with a limited perception.Most people can understand why a capacity to rebel, and the freedom of choice is needed for genuine, voluntary love that would satisfy God’s desire for companionship, but why would we need limited perception?[QUOTE]

Can't agree fully. Let me share with you my opinion. God did not create Satan separately. It is some of us who become Satan with our bad thoughts and actions. Rocks and trees are also able to love Him back as we love Him. I may agree that God created human beings with the ability to choose not to love Him and become rebel, but He certainly did not create us with limited perception. We are His image.

[QUOTE]One would think that to see God and know God fully, as He is, you would certainly love Him. There are a few problems with this. We can experience His spiritual presence, but not His physical presence- not yet, anyway. The practical problem is that God is too holy, too powerful and too divine for us in our present, fallen flesh form to see Him and live. He dwells in unapproachable light. His physical presence would be to us as a consuming fire. Our own speech is so corrupted by selfishness that our prayers and communications to Him have to be translated by His Spirit to a form acceptable to his ears. There is a major communication barrier between imperfect, temporal man and the perfect, eternal God. So another emotion God feels toward us is the careful emotion we feel when we handle a fragile, premature baby or a wounded bird, or butterfly wings. God knows He has to be extremely gentle with us, and find some safe way to expose Himself to us, or He will overwhelm us by the brightness and intensity of His presence. For our own safety, our perception of Him must be filtered somehow, like looking at the noonday sun through a dense, filtered glass (which, by the way, I don’t recommend because even that isn’t enough protection).[QUOTE]

There have been people in India who have perceived His physical presence and used to talk with Him as human beings talk with each other.

[QUOTE]Another emotion God feels towards us is a caution not to act toward us in a way that would corrupt us. It would be nice, if seeing God as He really is, we would love Him, but this is not fully possible because people are attracted to powerful persons for the wrong reasons. If God stood in the sky and shouted aloud to us (as if this were possible without killing us) people would then obey Him out of fear and/or selfishness. If our motive for obeying or worshipping God is fear or selfishness, eventually we would become rebellious- even our obedience would be disobedience masquerading as obedience.

Another emotion God has towards us is a feeling of being misunderstood. There are important aspects of God we could not perceive if we were to see Him sitting on the throne of the universe in awesome splendor and absolute power. We could never perceive His humility or His meekness. For us to know Him fully, He would have to veil His divinity in a form that we could see and touch. We could only experience His humility and graciousness, and fully exercise the freedom to hurt Him and reject Him, if He were able to manifest Himself in a form like ours, vulnerable to us- sort of like the king who sneaks out of the palace and walks the street without a body guard, dressed in commoner’s clothes. Then He could show individuals the humility and lowliness they could never see while He wears His royal robes and is surrounded by armed soldiers. In His kingly form, people would tell Him just what they thought He wanted to hear. But if He came to us in a form like ours, it would be exposed who really loves Him, and who is merely pretending in order to gain his favor.[QUOTE]

I can not disagree even if I wanted to.

[QUOTE]Your experience with your unkind co-worker to me is an example of God exposing Himself to that man through you. Your reaction to him was humble enough to soften his heart, praise God. In effect, you told him, “I can see that you are pleased with yourself, but have you thought about whether your actions are pleasing to God?” You helped him to see that he has lived a life outside of relationship with God, in rebellion, serving himself, rather than serving God. You helped your co-worker to realize how he frustrates God’s desire to use him to expose Himself to others through mercy and kindness, how your co-workers actions not only isolate himself from others, but they contribute to the isolation between God and man, as all unloving acts always do.[QUOTE]

Yes, there must have been many occassions in our life when He has come to us in some form or the other, only we could not recognize Him.

[QUOTE]Some people think God hates the wicked, and can hardly wait to roast them in the fire. In reality, God’s perception of the wicked is much like the emotions of a jilted lover. It would seem beneath His dignity, but He pines wretchedly over the souls of those He dearly loves, but who have rejected and spurned His love. Do you know what God’s wrath is? It is that eventually He will have to say to those who have rejected Him, “Though it breaks my heart, I have to let you go.” Some people think God says, “I hope you love me, otherwise I shall have to roast you over the fires of hell for eternity…Now do you love me?” That is absurdity. Voltaire has said that if someone can convince you of absurdities, they can make you commit atrocities. Many world religions have operated on the absurd premise that God hates the wicked, and have as a result frustrated God terribly and caused mankind great suffering.[QUOTE]

He only knows Love. In fact Love is a form of God. Hate has been created by people. He has Love for all whether they love Him or hate Him.

[QUOTE]God is an ardent suitor who fondly wishes to win our love by drawing us by His gracious love, compassion, humility and magnanimity. This is the only way toward knowing God as He knows us.
Yes, I fully agree.

Thanks for such a nice message.

I got the message about the new thread and thought I would check it out. :driving:

This is a much more complicated question than just belief. It is easy to wax on about philosophies and that thread did its obvious dance around the differences in belief of what God may be according to different religions. I think it is important for people to focus on the similarity in all beliefs. The similarities point to the universal and the universal leads to understanding. Your query now on God's perception of us requires the ability to move outside the picture frame of human existence and all its limitations.

I had the wonderful gift of an out of body experience a number of years ago. I became conscious before I returned to my body while sleeping. In those brief moments that seemed like eternity, I was beyond the restriction of time and space. It is a feeling of connectivity to the universe and everything else than can never be described or forgotten. Although I wrote earlier "Does God believe in us?" The same logic of the subsequent para applies. Belief is irrelevant to existence and God would be too wise to disown a part of God's own body. I do wonder sometimes if the race as a whole is like a tumour on that body that needs to be surgically removed, but in removal God would lose the good with the bad and I don't think it would ever be considered as a worthy sacrifice to disown the entire human race. As a result of my experience, I would say that God doesn't ever consider itself separate from any one or any thing and, as such, has no judgement on any one or any thing. I really believe that the final judgement of a persons life and deeds is performed by that person themselves in a higher form. Like a parent saying "Are you proud of yourself?" after the child has the benefit of hindsight.

I am not a Christian, per se, but I believe in all religions. I believe in the pursuit of a higher purpose and admire all who strive to rise above the inane matters of day to day life. I feel closest to God when I laugh. I think, in the end, learning to laugh at yourself in a healthy way and seeing the humour in all the silly predicaments that arise is the best way to repay God for the chance to be alive.

koan wrote: ......This is a much more complicated question than just belief. .........

I had the wonderful gift of an out of body experience a number of years ago........ As a result of my experience, I would say that God doesn't ever consider itself separate from any one or any thing and, as such, has no judgement on any one or any thing. .............Like a parent saying "Are you proud of yourself?" after the child has the benefit of hindsight.

.....I believe in the pursuit of a higher purpose and admire all who strive to rise above the inane matters of day to day life. I feel closest to God when I laugh. I think, in the end, learning to laugh at yourself in a healthy way and seeing the humour in all the silly predicaments that arise is the best way to repay God for the chance to be alive.


I always thought that it was a very simple question.

You have given a good example of parent and the child. But parents do not leave it at simply saying "Are you proud of yourself?" and consider that their duty is done. They also judge the child.

On the other hand, in addition to what the child thinks about himself he also wants to know what his parents think about him. He always tries to ensure that they have a good opinion about him. As long as the child values their opinion about him he keeps himself away from doing anything wrong. And that is very important for the child, his family and human society.

You are right that God doesn't ever consider Himself separate from any one or any thing but I think that He always judge us on every thing related to our lives. He is a parent and we are his children. I feel that people always worry about what God thinks about their actions, but if they do not try to perceive or express it in words then there must be some other reason for that. May be they are afraid to accept it.

In the last para you have given a very good message. Thanks.

Suresh Gupta wrote: I always thought that it was a very simple question.

You have given a good example of parent and the child. But parents do not leave it at simply saying "Are you proud of yourself?" and consider that their duty is done. They also judge the child.

On the other hand, in addition to what the child thinks about himself he also wants to know what his parents think about him. He always tries to ensure that they have a good opinion about him. As long as the child values their opinion about him he keeps himself away from doing anything wrong. And that is very important for the child, his family and human society.

You are right that God doesn't ever consider Himself separate from any one or any thing but I think that He always judge us on every thing related to our lives. He is a parent and we are his children. I feel that people always worry about what God thinks about their actions, but if they do not try to perceive or express it in words then there must be some other reason for that. May be they are afraid to accept it.

In the last para you have given a very good message. Thanks. Beautiful. I like it.

You have a very wise and gentle way about you, Suresh.

I raise my child to judge herself. Although I must admit to declaring things bad or good, I am only stating my preferences and offering them as guidance. I have always advised her that, in the end, she will know what is right by how she feels about herself when she acts. If she loves herself, she will love other people. If she likes herself, she will focus more on what she likes about others and not be judgemental. So far, she is becoming a wonderful spirit and I cannot judge something so divine. Of course, she makes me angry sometimes, but my anger is generated by me, not her. I am responsible for my own reactions.

This relates to how I feel God perceives us as children. I am a human parent, doing the best to overcome my flaws and love my child without prejudice, but I am human. God is not. God is free from limitations in perception and for thoughts on judgement in general see the thread "no good without evil".

It is true that children look for approval from their parents. My daughter is always telling me of things she has done that show 'good' morals. But was the point of her actions to make her acceptable to me? I hope not. I think it is more important for her to take actions that make her acceptable to herself. Her higher self. Some people may justify hurtful actions for selfish reasons and be quite happy with themselves...but I find they don't sleep well. The internal judge is wiser than the waking soul and dreams are pleasant or unpleasant if one is honest or not honest with one' Self.

koan wrote: ................I feel God perceives us as children. I am a human parent, doing the best to overcome my flaws and love my child without prejudice, but I am human. God is not. God is free from limitations in perception and for thoughts on judgement in general see the thread "no good without evil".

It is true that children look for approval from their parents. My daughter is always telling me of things she has done that show 'good' morals. But was the point of her actions to make her acceptable to me? I hope not. I think it is more important for her to take actions that make her acceptable to herself. Her higher self. Some people may justify hurtful actions for selfish reasons and be quite happy with themselves...but I find they don't sleep well. The internal judge is wiser than the waking soul and dreams are pleasant or unpleasant if one is honest or not honest with one' Self.


You have summerized it very beautifully. It is most important for us to take actions that make us acceptable to ourselves, which will lead to acceptance by Our Higher-self, the God.