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I think that it's quite incredible that religion can be discussed at all on this site. Bearing in mind that religion has been the cause or blame of many a war, it's good to find somewhere where a person can air their views candidly.

Over this, it's good to see people apologising for being offensive even when they did not intend so originally. I have actually witnessed fights on this basis alone.

But I know you wouldn't hurt anyone intentionally AC, and I think this applies to most of the contributors of this forum. This is a garden with some beautiful flowers in it.

I think I would like to add, that during the early 70s I considered myself to be a "Biblical Research Student. I became involved with a "Ministry" focused on studying and determining the true intent of scripture. Before translations, and interpertations. This " Ministry" was later classified as a cult. It was difficult for me to leave the organization. I did not like the way they tried to harness my life. And I was apalled at the way they condemned anyone who did not follow their teachings. To this day, their are certain scriptures that are burned in my mind. The messages were powerful. " The thing which I have greatly feared is come upon me, and that which I was afraid of, is come unto me." One of my old time favorites. It was because of this time spent in this ministry that I came to believe in the concept of us humans fighting a spiritual battle everyday, here on earth. It is also where I came to understand that Satan is as powerful force as God. I am sharing this information about myself in order to show that my opinions are the result of life experience. They are not attempts to diminish the beliefs of others.

By the way... we had quite a bit of "entertainment" Manifestations of Holy Spirit.

It is by way of Word of Knowledge, and Word of Wisdom, that I have made very major decisions in my life.

weeder wrote: It is also where I came to understand that Satan is as powerful force as God.
Interesting. Are you saying that good doesn’t have the power to overcome evil? How is it that a fallen angel came into that much power?

Good and evil, positive and negative, these are polarities, or dualities. They are indeed equal forces. It is up to the individual to transcend these boundaries and create what is in their heart.

OpenMind wrote: Good and evil, positive and negative, these are polarities, or dualities. They are indeed equal forces. It is up to the individual to transcend these boundaries and create what is in their heart.


And the fallen angel...

As far as I can comprehend, God represents all that is good and evil, positive and negative, and so on. I say this because God created everything. Cain and Abel. The Original Serpent, the Fallen Angel, these appear as examiners of the human condition. They become representative of the spiritual tests we endure through life.

OpenMind wrote: As far as I can comprehend, God represents all that is good and evil, positive and negative, and so on. I say this because God created everything. Cain and Abel. The Original Serpent, the Fallen Angel, these appear as examiners of the human condition. They become representative of the spiritual tests we endure through life.
The Fallen Angel is Satan....right?

If God created the Fallen Angel, how can that creation be as powerful as its Creator?

He or she is not as powerful as God. Satan is a servant of God. God simply gave him or her licence. It is in God that both positive and negative exists.

OpenMind wrote: He or she is not as powerful as God. Satan is a servant of God. God simply gave him or her licence. It is in God that both positive and negative exists.
Originally Posted by weeder:

"It is also where I came to understand that Satan is as powerful force as God."

Within the frail human frame, Satan may as well be as powerful a force as God. But Satan is a creation of God's and is ultimately answerable to God..

OpenMind wrote: Within the frail human frame, Satan may as well be as powerful a force as God. But Satan is a creation of God's and is ultimately answerable to God..
I don't hold the same view. I'm not powerless against Satan. I don't yeild to Satan one time and God the next. God within us is far more powerful than Satan trying to get in. I slip into Satan's traps from time to time but it is God within me who gets me out. The traps only have temporary power compared to the ultimate, total power of God.

Evil is not a he or she. The devil will use any tool available to influence or to win souls. I used to tell my children when they were little.. "You will hear two little voices in your head( translated your conscience speaking to you.) The devil wants you to make one choice... He will laugh and be happy when you choose his way.

The devil uses confusion, filth, immorality,anger, and greed to achieve his end. The story about Lucifer is a story. Fallen angels today are the victims of drug and alcohol abuse. Incest and poverty. Ignorance and shame. We do fight a spiritual battle everyday. I was just across the street this evening at a boring neighbors house. I do not want to go there. I am pressured to make an appearance, to be neighborly. A comment was made about someone who" totes niggers around"

I quickly, mentally had to make a choice... speak up and risk myself.. or keep silent, and let the devil laugh. I spoke up, of course. I have a moral obligation to not allow my fellow man to be referred to that way. That is a spiritual test. Those tests are placed before us everyday. Our reactions are far more powerful than running around quoting scripture. The devil is not interested in heathens. He is interested in hurling arrows at spiritual beings who know that there time here is to do good.

Satan is merely a test of our spirit. We either swing towards positive or negative, that is, good or evil. Sins are the lessons. Satan is the teacher until we learn the lesson. As in Job.

Accountable wrote: Arrogance abounds on all sides of this subject. This particular explosion revealed a little more of Sojourner to herself. That's definitely a good thing.



Sojourner, have you heard of Johari's window?


No, I've never heard of Johari's window. But a quick peek at the Web shows a lot of info on it. With this and all the other stuff I've been refered to during the last few days, I need to take a vacation from my retirement just to catch up.....

The posts after my outburst were sure plentiful. In reading them now I am feeling a strong need to speak to numerous issues. I am, therefore, very thankful I needed to be elsewhere when they were being posted. Reading them all as a group, I can see many threads that could be spoken to separate from this original thread.

Boy! I can hardly wait until tomorrow . . . . . .

OpenMind wrote: Satan is merely a test of our spirit. We either swing towards positive or negative, that is, good or evil. Sins are the lessons. Satan is the teacher until we learn the lesson. As in Job.
Very good. Most people miss that lesson in Job.

There is still much more I have to learn.

OpenMind wrote: There is still much more I have to learn.
That makes at least two of us.:wah:

On that note, I must be off to bed. New job tomorrow. Thanks for the discussion.:-6

Accountable wrote: Arrogance abounds on all sides of this subject. This particular explosion revealed a little more of Sojourner to herself. That's definitely a good thing.



Sojourner, have you heard of Johari's window?


Johari's window:) LOL first time I've heard refrence to it since leaving UNC.

Back to the BIBLE.

Mine says "Seek and ye shall find" It also says that Jesus is the only way unto the father. Universialsm would be nice but I'm afraid the road may be narrow.

Well I've read 3 of 5 strands. Some intresting views. Look forward to reading the rest!!!

Haven't made it to Chruch in a while. But last visit the minister said, "God doesn't need you. You need Him."

For me it would take more faith to believe in a world with out God then a world with Him.

Lotto

http://com4.runboard.com/btheagapecafe.fvineyard.t9

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