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The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 2:56 pm
by katsung47
Ukrainians Capture US Mercenary in Kharkov



Ukrainians Capture US Mercenary in Kharkov - YouTube

He said, “I’m US citizen”.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 6:30 pm
by FourPart
Mercenaries bear no allegiance to anyone. Their only loyalty is that of money. As such they know the risks & accept them when they enter into their career as professional murderers & deserve no sympathy or support from their country of origin whatsoever.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:52 pm
by High Threshold
katsung47;1458102 wrote: Ukrainians Capture US Mercenary in Kharkov



Ukrainians Capture US Mercenary in Kharkov - YouTube

He said, Im US citizen.


This video is certainly a hoax.

1). He only says two words yet his Slavic accent is very clear.

2). I do not believe that someone would beat you, leaving your helmet on your head.

3). The "blood" from his mouth is fake. Blood doesn't come thick and immediately coagulate only a few centimetres from the wound, especially if you are being rolled around on the floor and beaten.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:55 pm
by High Threshold
FourPart;1458163 wrote: Mercenaries bear no allegiance to anyone. Their only loyalty is that of money. As such they know the risks & accept them when they enter into their career as professional murderers & deserve no sympathy or support from their country of origin whatsoever.


This is not necessarily true. Many who enlist in Armies of other nations often do so out of adventure or national conviction, ie they think they are doing the right thing.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:10 pm
by katsung47
 WikiLeaks : Ukraine ‘s new president was a U.S. State Department informants

International Online Zhuangao : According to the Voice of Russia on June 12 reported that WikiLeaks has exposed two U.S. diplomatic cables , said the newly elected Ukrainian president Peter Poroshenko (Petr Poroshenko) was a U.S. State Department informant . A top secret U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, April 29, 2006 sent in the front , twice mentioned the now world-famous chocolate tycoon.



WikiLeaks exposure , in 2006 , Poroshenko to the former United States Ambassador to Ukraine John Herbst (John Herbst) to form a coalition government to disclose the Ukrainian internal information . He updated the current situation to form a coalition government to Herbst , saying he is ” Our Ukraine – People’s self-defense ” (Nasha Ukrayina) political party insider insider . The party formed by former Ukrainian President Viktor Yushchenko (Viktor Yushchenko) leadership , very popular with Western leaders.



However , at that time did not believe in Herbst Poroshenko , but questioned the credibility of the information provided .

WikiLeaks : Ukraine ‘s new president was a U.S. State Department informants ( Figure ) | EN NEWS 163

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Fri Jul 04, 2014 12:59 am
by recovering conservative
Here's something else I didn't know before about the "Chocolate King", in a piece on Counterpunch dealing mostly with modern Neocolonial imperialism in Africa: The Loneliness of Anti-Imperialist Fighters » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names



You are here because you were informed that the President of Ukraine, Petro Poroshenko, also known at ‘Chocolate King’, has been getting his cocoa from the fields of this country. You are also convinced by several of your sources, based all over the world, that his confectionary empire, Roshen, is receiving its basic product from some of the most terrible plantations in Côte d’Ivoire that are still using child labor.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 3:30 pm
by katsung47
US ready meals meant for Ukraine's military go on Internet sale

American packed meals that were sent as military-technical assistance to the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine are being sold on the Internet, instead of being given away to the military. Ukrainian authorities initiated an investigation in connection with the incidents, as was stated by the head of the Center for Military-Political Studies Dmitry Tymchuk on his page on Facebook.

US ready meals meant for Ukraine's military go on Internet sale - News - World - The Voice of Russia: News, Breaking news, Politics, Economics, Business, Russia, International current events, Expert opinion, podcasts, Video

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:52 pm
by High Threshold
katsung47;1459818 wrote: US ready meals meant for Ukraine's military go on Internet sale


Oh gosh! Now the Yanks have no choice but to attack Moscow!!! I knew they'd find some cacamany excuse equal to their no choice :yh_liar invasion of Irak due to the UN inspection team being on the verge of proving there were no WMD's there.

Find a hole to crawl into, Vladmir, and batten down the hatch! The Yanks is coming and they ain't distributing chocolate this time!!!

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:04 pm
by recovering conservative
I guess it's time for an update on the Ukrainian Civil War, since there is breaking news of a Malaysian passenger plane being shot down in Eastern Ukraine near Russian territory. Live updates from RT here: http://rt.com/news/173628-malaysian-pla ... h-ukraine/

Who shot the plane down? The Ukraine military trying to suppress the Eastern Rebellion, or the Ukrainian rebels? The rebels in Donetsk claim they only have Manpads, which are only capable of intercepting low-flying aircraft. An interesting tidbit is being advanced by one RT analyst claiming that Putin's plane had just returned home in an area near the border 40 minutes prior to the shoot down. Makes a possible motive that the Ukraine military may have gambled on a chance to assassinate Putin! The pictures posted on RT America show the planes (which were both flying over Polish territory) looked surprisingly similar...with Putin's personal plane being a little shorter and fatter than the Malaysian airline. Both planes had similar color schemes if the pictures are accurate.

FWIW, the only thing that surprises me about the Eastern War, is why the Russians haven't reacted yet in the manner they did when U.S.-sponsored Georgia was invading two of its Russian provinces five years ago! Putin bombed what was called the Georgian Airforce back to the stone age, and that was the end of their attempts to overrun Ossetia or force the Russians out. Same thing goes here. So far, the surprisingly vicious and large scale Ukrainian war against civilian populations (which is mostly unreported in the West), which has included a few Ukrainian shells landing on Russian territory and causing a few casualties + a growing refugee crisis, have not moved the Russians to do more than send covert military supplies and some aid.

Putin's wide popularity with average Russians hinges a lot on drumming up Russian nationalism after a long period when Russians felt exploited, deceived and humiliated by their peace treaty with America and the West. Putin is a flag-waving theocon...following a similar strategy as U.S. conservative politicians. Going to war is always popular...if the war can be ended quickly with few casualties...just ask Dubya or the H.W. Bush! His popularity surged after hammering back the Georgian toady that tries to represent U.S. foreign policy in the Caucasus Region, so why not hammer the Chocolate King, and his disreputable government! Putin's reluctance to hit back and deal with whatever consequences the Obama Administration is threatening to do right now, are making him look weak in the eyes of many average Russians.

I know this sets the stage for a dangerous confrontation between two nuclear powers capable of destroying us all...but this is the gamble the Americans already undertook when they set the stage for the overthrow of the former government and installed their western-friendly regime in Kiev! The U.S. has been daring the Russians to respond...and they have a little by taking back their former territory of Crimea. But, the Obama Administration, and future U.S. regimes are not going to stop pushing until they start breaking up Russian territories into smaller and smaller pieces, and eliminate Russia as an economic power, and part of an effort to end U.S. Dollar supremacy in international trading. Seems more and more like an all-out full scale war will be on the table, and either the U.S. or Russia will blink, or the world will be over before we are aware of what has happened!

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:13 pm
by High Threshold
It must have been the U.S. that shot down this plane too, on a Black Flag operaion, in order to accuse Moscow of doing it. Standard CIA procedure.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:15 pm
by LarsMac
I love conspiracy Theories.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:16 pm
by High Threshold
What "Theory"? This is money in the bank!

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:20 pm
by LarsMac
High Threshold;1460187 wrote: What "Theory"? This is money in the bank!


I was taught along time ago, that phrase is code for "This is a scam, Pure and simple"

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:22 pm
by recovering conservative
This is the latest update from RT: President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile - sources It's always those unnamed sources again! Same with CNN and Fox and MSNBC.

This would be worth keeping track of because it would provide a motive for an obvious high risk operation...if the plane was flying at its cruising altitude at the time of the shootdown.

The pictures of the planes look like I wouldn't be able to distinguish one from the other while they were in the air:


The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:29 pm
by High Threshold
LarsMac;1460188 wrote: I was taught along time ago, that phrase is code for "This is a scam, Pure and simple"


Just send your bank code and PIN number and stop wasting time! I'm a busy man!

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:33 pm
by LarsMac
recovering conservative;1460189 wrote: This is the latest update from RT: President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile - sources It's always those unnamed sources again! Same with CNN and Fox and MSNBC.

This would be worth keeping track of because it would provide a motive for an obvious high risk operation...if the plane was flying at its cruising altitude at the time of the shootdown.

The pictures of the planes look like I wouldn't be able to distinguish one from the other while they were in the air:




Without some really good glass, at 35k altitude, all planes look pretty much alike from the ground.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:34 pm
by LarsMac
High Threshold;1460192 wrote: Just send your bank code and PIN number and stop wasting time! I'm a busy man!


:wah::yh_rotfl

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:56 pm
by FourPart
Dictatorship all too often comes in the guise of National Pride.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:45 pm
by High Threshold
FourPart;1460278 wrote: Dictatorship all too often comes in the guise of National Pride.


To put into similar words:

Dictatorship is covertly created and maintained by way of encouraging and demanding Patriotism of its citizens.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 3:20 am
by gmc
recovering conservative;1460189 wrote: This is the latest update from RT: President Putin's plane might have been the target for Ukrainian missile - sources It's always those unnamed sources again! Same with CNN and Fox and MSNBC.

This would be worth keeping track of because it would provide a motive for an obvious high risk operation...if the plane was flying at its cruising altitude at the time of the shootdown.

The pictures of the planes look like I wouldn't be able to distinguish one from the other while they were in the air:




It's a pity for that daft theory that the seperatists had been boasting about shooting down a plane just before they realised it had been an airliner and hastily removed any mention of it fron social media. They have shot down three ukrainian planes prior to this - just not at that height. It probably didn't occur to them it might be a foreign passenger jet.



I know this sets the stage for a dangerous confrontation between two nuclear powers capable of destroying us all...but this is the gamble the Americans already undertook when they set the stage for the overthrow of the former government and installed their western-friendly regime in Kiev! The U.S. has been daring the Russians to respond...and they have a little by taking back their former territory of Crimea. But, the Obama Administration, and future U.S. regimes are not going to stop pushing until they start breaking up Russian territories into smaller and smaller pieces, and eliminate Russia as an economic power, and part of an effort to end U.S. Dollar supremacy in international trading. Seems more and more like an all-out full scale war will be on the table, and either the U.S. or Russia will blink, or the world will be over before we are aware of what has happened!




Usually when america overthrows a government it is to replace a democracy with a dictatorship friendly to their economic interests that's not what happened in ukraine it was ground up movement as it was in pland and elsewhre. What's tearing it apart are old regiaonal and ethnic conflicts that never got fought out thanks to russian dominance.

Maybe if bush hadn't decided to place missiles close to russia in what was a clear threat to rusia despite the rhetioric about them being to defend agianst the rather unlikely event of iran firing missiles at europe tensions might have continued to ease as it is putin got in as a man that would not accept being pushed around by the west.

He seems hell bent on restoring the old russian state.

The west now has a problem - appease him and hope things sort themselves out or perhaps get ready to go to war. Except anyone who thinks this wouldn't go nuclear very quickly in the event of war with nato contries is kidding themselves. On the other hand maybe MAD still works. As a side note the primary reason france and britian wanted their own nuclear weapons was because they didn't think the US could be trusted as an ally to get involved unless their own immediate interests were at stake. Realpolitik makes for strange bedfellows does it not.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:13 am
by AnneBoleyn
High Threshold;1460297 wrote: To put into similar words:

Dictatorship is covertly created and maintained by way of encouraging and demanding Patriotism of its citizens.


Don't forget the Fear Factor---have a named "enemy" that the people are encouraged to be afraid of.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:37 am
by High Threshold
AnneBoleyn;1460309 wrote: Don't forget the Fear Factor---have a named "enemy" that the people are encouraged to be afraid of.


Thanks for reminding me.

Communists - Leftists - Socialists - "Liberals" - Terrorists - Terrorist "sympathisers" - Moslems - Arabs - Insurgents - Anti-Americans - Un-Americans - Non-Americans- Non-Patriotic Americans - Anti-War Activists ....

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 10:56 am
by Bruv
High Threshold;1460310 wrote: Thanks for reminding me.

Communists - Leftists - Socialists - "Liberals" - Terrorists - Terrorist "sympathisers" - Moslems - Arabs - Insurgents - Anti-Americans - Un-Americans - Non-Americans- Non-Patriotic Americans - Anti-War Activists ....


The American part is interchangeable to apply in any country.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 11:11 am
by High Threshold
Bruv;1460321 wrote: The American part is interchangeable to apply in any country.


I cannot agree with that. But maybe you mean something specific that I didn't see.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 12:07 pm
by tude dog
High Threshold;1460310 wrote: Thanks for reminding me.

Communists - Leftists - Socialists - "Liberals" - Terrorists - Terrorist "sympathisers" - Moslems - Arabs - Insurgents - Anti-Americans - Un-Americans - Non-Americans- Non-Patriotic Americans - Anti-War Activists ....


To fear??

Nothing to fear,





It is here.

Damage done.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:14 pm
by High Threshold
tude dog;1460332 wrote: To fear??

Nothing to fear,







It is here.

Damage done.


I am fully aware that Capitalism is the most scary thing these days ....... but it is potentially no more scary than any other political philosophy, once it is misused and corrupted. George W. Bush did pretty much the same thing as Hitler and Josef Stalin.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 1:54 pm
by tude dog
High Threshold;1460338 wrote: I am fully aware that Capitalism is the most scary thing these days ....... but it is potentially no more scary than any other political philosophy, once it is misused and corrupted. George W. Bush did pretty much the same thing as Hitler and Josef Stalin.


Thank You.

Kinda makes me wonder why you are here?

Am I wrong, but you never had anything to contribute?

Just to be clear, by contribute, something more than some snarky comment.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 4:16 pm
by LarsMac
Pot, meet Kettle

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:25 pm
by High Threshold
LarsMac;1460354 wrote: Pot, meet Kettle


Shall I be mother?

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:29 pm
by High Threshold
tude dog;1460345 wrote: Thank You.

Kinda makes me wonder why you are here?

Am I wrong, but you never had anything to contribute?

Just to be clear, by contribute, something more than some snarky comment.


Your paranoia runs deep.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:20 am
by AnneBoleyn
High Threshold;1460368 wrote: Your paranoia runs deep.


Into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid. Step out of line, the man comes & takes you away.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:02 am
by High Threshold
AnneBoleyn;1460379 wrote: Into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid. Step out of line, the man comes & takes you away.


Cream? ... or Buffalo Springfield?

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:22 am
by AnneBoleyn
Cream for my coffee & Buffalo Springfield for the song "For What It's Worth".

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:29 am
by High Threshold
AnneBoleyn;1460396 wrote: Cream for my coffee & Buffalo Springfield for the song "For What It's Worth".


"Cream" had the same style and that's what I first wrote. "Buffalo Springfield" was an after-thought edit. "Battle lines are being drawn, nobody's right if everybody's wrong ....." I remember it to this day!

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:41 am
by High Threshold
Here's a flash-back just for you Anne:


The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 12:54 pm
by recovering conservative
gmc;1460301 wrote: It's a pity for that daft theory that the seperatists had been boasting about shooting down a plane just before they realised it had been an airliner and hastily removed any mention of it fron social media. They have shot down three ukrainian planes prior to this - just not at that height. It probably didn't occur to them it might be a foreign passenger jet.


You're right - some pretty scant evidence was provided "proving" that the eastern rebels were bragging about shooting down a jetliner, and what bothers me most is that the story was repeated over and over again in MSM and "public" media sources like NPR and our CBC. How many times has Obama and lead henchman - John Kerry lied about factual statements on a whole range of subjects? It goes off track, but when Obama got right up in front of the cameras and loudly proclaimed:"don't worry, nobody is recording your phone calls," why wasn't the President confronted with this flat out lie after Ed Snowden revealed himself and most of what that giant humongous computer complex in Bluffdale Utah is really all about? Or John Kerry's "we KNOW the Syrian Government launched the sarin gas attack on a rebel-held suburb of Damascus. When N.Y. Times veteran Sy Hersch revealed that Kerry had nothing, and the most likely source were gas canisters from Turkey and used by the Al Nusra Front against one of their rivals....well, the whole damn story about the Syrian Gas Attack just vanished in MSM as they ran off chasing the next story. What's most enlightening about the condition of the Fourth Estate in America, is that Hersch...the most senior correspondent for the Times, had to go to the London Review of Books, to publish his expose. Why wasn't a major story by one of their own reporters published in the Times itself? It's not the first time they spiked one of Hersch's stories, and it's a testament to how gutless the management at the Times is, that they are afraid to fire the reporter who broke the My Lai Massacre about 45 years ago, and they pay him a salary..... but they won't publish anything of consequence that goes against the Administration, Israel, the Military and Security apparatus etc.! Their preference is to just ignore him and wait till he retires. So, to sum up these points, my great frustration with modern MSM is that I can't take anything they report at face value. It might be true...or it might not be. I have no more confidence in these sources than I do in RT, Al Jazeera, the Guardian, or a few other foreign sources I cross-reference news stories with.

Usually when america overthrows a government it is to replace a democracy with a dictatorship friendly to their economic interests that's not what happened in ukraine it was ground up movement as it was in pland and elsewhre. What's tearing it apart are old regiaonal and ethnic conflicts that never got fought out thanks to russian dominance.


Yes, on this side of the Globe, the flood of refugee children U.S. border points and the shocking, despicable reaction to them by so called "patriots" finally has the liberal alternative media mouthpieces like Alternet and DemocracyNow pointing back to the military coup that overthrew the elected government of Manuel Zalaya in Honduras, and replaced by a military - then U.S. corporate puppet regime...and given the stamp of approval by the Obama Whitehouse early in their first term in office. The war on dissidents and the civilian population of Honduras by a handful of wealthy landowners and U.S. corporations, who hire narco gangs to run a reign of terror in that nation is one major cause of the refugee children crisis in the first place. Yet, none of the mainstream media ever mention that coup, or the government that replaced the elected government. All they do is go on and on about The Drug War!

In the Ukraine, the U.S. did not have the kinds of pieces in place to order the overthrow of a government. Virtually every Latin American country has a military trained and supplied by the School of The Americas academy in Florida (I forget what it's new name is...but that's not relevant). A civilian government may oppose U.S. policies and foreign corporate interests BUT their militaries never do! As soon as the military gets wind that the government is looking to make a move and replace some generals or reduce their budgets, that's it, the government is gone no matter how popular they might be. In the Ukraine, the local State Dept. rep - Victoria Nuland was overheard on a bugged phone call to be pushing for "Yats" to be made the interim president after that latest coup. But a lot of the events on the ground their are not under U.S. control in a way that exists in most of Latin America.

Maybe if bush hadn't decided to place missiles close to russia in what was a clear threat to rusia despite the rhetioric about them being to defend agianst the rather unlikely event of iran firing missiles at europe tensions might have continued to ease as it is putin got in as a man that would not accept being pushed around by the west.

He seems hell bent on restoring the old russian state.
It really started with Clinton though! He's the one who broke an informal agreement with Yeltsin not to surround Russia with Nato allies after he dissolved the Warsaw Pact. U.S. foreign policy differs very little between Democrat and Republican administrations...which is why a lot of onlookers speculate on a "Deep State" existing within U.S. government along the lines of the deep state in Egypt and other military regimes.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2014 9:42 pm
by High Threshold
Oscar Namechange;1453271 wrote: ... As long as Britain Is not Involved and Putin doesn't cut our gas supply off.... I don't care


Britain is a NATO member, isn't it .....

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:05 am
by FourPart
It's on YouTube. It MUST be true!!

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:38 am
by LarsMac
I certainly don't recall britain withdrawing from NATO.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 10:38 am
by tude dog
FourPart;1460730 wrote: It's on YouTube. It MUST be true!!


Credits to Prison Planet

If you can't trust Alex Jones. who can you trust?

[/sarcasm

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:40 am
by High Threshold
FourPart;1460730 wrote: It's on YouTube. It MUST be true!!


It's on YouTube. It MUST be false!!



LarsMac;1460731 wrote: I certainly don't recall britain withdrawing from NATO.


The point being that the U.S. and NATO have a perpetual wish to discredit Russia. That's just plain fact. Making the ASSUMPTION that the UK isn't playing its cards close to the chest is unadvisable. So until more is known it would not be prudent to claim "out of hand" that the UK has no interest in portraying Russia in a dark light.

tude dog;1460732 wrote: Credits to Prison Planet

If you can't trust Alex Jones. who can you trust?

[/sarcasm


I don't like Alex Jones any more than you do. But let me respond to your question with another one ... If you can't trust the CIA who can you trust? Hmmm?

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:58 am
by LarsMac
"90% of what you see on the internet is true" - Abraham 'Honest Abe' Lincoln

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:05 pm
by High Threshold
"90% percent of what you read in the mainstream newspaper is untrue" - Snoopy "Sopwith Camel" Brown

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 1:30 pm
by LarsMac
High Threshold;1460741 wrote: "90% percent of what you read in the mainstream newspaper is untrue" - Snoopy "Copwith Camel"


That is not entirely true.

It is more about what you don't see in the mainstream news.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 6:19 pm
by FourPart
Of course you realise that the last few posts have been in the 90s of this thread.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2014 9:43 pm
by High Threshold
High Threshold;1460741 wrote: "90% percent of what you read in the mainstream newspaper is untrue" - Snoopy "Sopwith Camel" Brown


LarsMac;1460743 wrote: That is not entirely true.

It is more about what you don't see in the mainstream news.


I don't agree with that. What you don't see in the mainstream news is probably 90% truth. That means that the mainstream news reports appox. 90% untruths and 10% fact. Now, if my math is correct that means 90% percent of what you read in the mainstream newspaper is untrue. That's exactly what Snoopy said. :D

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 8:32 am
by LarsMac
High Threshold;1460750 wrote: I don't agree with that. What you don't see in the mainstream news is probably 90% truth. That means that the mainstream news reports appox. 90% untruths and 10% fact. Now, if my math is correct that means 90% percent of what you read in the mainstream newspaper is untrue. That's exactly what Snoopy said. :D


And to what untruths do you refer?

Let's take the BBC news this morning.

so there are not 1000 deaths in Gaza? How many then? How is that untrue?

The US is not evacuating its Embassy staff from Libya?

There is no Ebola in Nigeria?

Please. Tell me what I can believe.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:15 am
by LarsMac
recovering conservative;1460710 wrote: You're right - some pretty scant evidence was provided "proving" that the eastern rebels were bragging about shooting down a jetliner, and what bothers me most is that the story was repeated over and over again in MSM and "public" media sources like NPR and our CBC. How many times has Obama and lead henchman - John Kerry lied about factual statements on a whole range of subjects? It goes off track, but when Obama got right up in front of the cameras and loudly proclaimed:"don't worry, nobody is recording your phone calls," why wasn't the President confronted with this flat out lie after Ed Snowden revealed himself and most of what that giant humongous computer complex in Bluffdale Utah is really all about? Or John Kerry's "we KNOW the Syrian Government launched the sarin gas attack on a rebel-held suburb of Damascus. When N.Y. Times veteran Sy Hersch revealed that Kerry had nothing, and the most likely source were gas canisters from Turkey and used by the Al Nusra Front against one of their rivals....well, the whole damn story about the Syrian Gas Attack just vanished in MSM as they ran off chasing the next story. What's most enlightening about the condition of the Fourth Estate in America, is that Hersch...the most senior correspondent for the Times, had to go to the London Review of Books, to publish his expose. Why wasn't a major story by one of their own reporters published in the Times itself? It's not the first time they spiked one of Hersch's stories, and it's a testament to how gutless the management at the Times is, that they are afraid to fire the reporter who broke the My Lai Massacre about 45 years ago, and they pay him a salary..... but they won't publish anything of consequence that goes against the Administration, Israel, the Military and Security apparatus etc.! Their preference is to just ignore him and wait till he retires. So, to sum up these points, my great frustration with modern MSM is that I can't take anything they report at face value. It might be true...or it might not be. I have no more confidence in these sources than I do in RT, Al Jazeera, the Guardian, or a few other foreign sources I cross-reference news stories with.



Yes, on this side of the Globe, the flood of refugee children U.S. border points and the shocking, despicable reaction to them by so called "patriots" finally has the liberal alternative media mouthpieces like Alternet and DemocracyNow pointing back to the military coup that overthrew the elected government of Manuel Zalaya in Honduras, and replaced by a military - then U.S. corporate puppet regime...and given the stamp of approval by the Obama Whitehouse early in their first term in office. The war on dissidents and the civilian population of Honduras by a handful of wealthy landowners and U.S. corporations, who hire narco gangs to run a reign of terror in that nation is one major cause of the refugee children crisis in the first place. Yet, none of the mainstream media ever mention that coup, or the government that replaced the elected government. All they do is go on and on about The Drug War!

In the Ukraine, the U.S. did not have the kinds of pieces in place to order the overthrow of a government. Virtually every Latin American country has a military trained and supplied by the School of The Americas academy in Florida (I forget what it's new name is...but that's not relevant). A civilian government may oppose U.S. policies and foreign corporate interests BUT their militaries never do! As soon as the military gets wind that the government is looking to make a move and replace some generals or reduce their budgets, that's it, the government is gone no matter how popular they might be. In the Ukraine, the local State Dept. rep - Victoria Nuland was overheard on a bugged phone call to be pushing for "Yats" to be made the interim president after that latest coup. But a lot of the events on the ground their are not under U.S. control in a way that exists in most of Latin America.



It really started with Clinton though! He's the one who broke an informal agreement with Yeltsin not to surround Russia with Nato allies after he dissolved the Warsaw Pact. U.S. foreign policy differs very little between Democrat and Republican administrations...which is why a lot of onlookers speculate on a "Deep State" existing within U.S. government along the lines of the deep state in Egypt and other military regimes.


Right. That is why we had such exemplary control over Chavez.

BTW, it's in Georgia, not Florida.

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:45 am
by High Threshold
LarsMac;1460756 wrote: And to what untruths do you refer?

Let's take the BBC news this morning.

so there are not 1000 deaths in Gaza? How many then? How is that untrue?

The US is not evacuating its Embassy staff from Libya?

There is no Ebola in Nigeria?

Please. Tell me what I can believe.


A series of carefully chosen, rhetorical questions - or an absurd conclusion to my motives and/or intelligence?

The Ukraine conflict

Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:59 am
by LarsMac
High Threshold;1460766 wrote: A series of carefully chosen, rhetorical questions - or an absurd conclusion to my motives and/or intelligence?


I simply picked the top three stories from the BBC main page.

According to your Snoopy, they must all be false.

I am asking you, then, for edification.