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Ahso!;1416112 wrote: 695836

Originally Posted by Accountable:

Considering what we revolted over, do you think that our forefathers would ever have stood for what this federal government does as a matter of course?
Ahso!;1415988 wrote: Some of them might bitch and moan on the internet, but otherwise, yes they would as is evidenced today. Just as there are people today who would have participated in the revolutionary efforts and now live with the reality ow the here and now.

Hamilton would be loving this.


I tend to agree with Ahso! here. I think they were businessmen, practical men and they would see the wisdom of doing what's best in a new culture, a new environment. They might see you, Accountable, as one who should stop fantasizing about what's best for a small world in a big world.

IMO. :yh_flag

AnneBoleyn;1416645 wrote: Originally Posted by Accountable:



I tend to agree with Ahso! here. I think they were businessmen, practical men and they would see the wisdom of doing what's best in a new culture, a new environment. They might see you, Accountable, as one who should stop fantasizing about what's best for a small world in a big world.

IMO. :yh_flag


http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/gun-c ... ost1415996

Accountable;1416664 wrote: http://www.forumgarden.com/forums/gun-c ... 996History is something we learn from and about, it's not our groundhog day.

Yo, Accountable - over here!

Get in the 21st century, son.



Tell me, do you do that silly reenactment stuff?

Ahso!;1416670 wrote: History is something we learn from and about, it's not our groundhog day.Yes it is your groundhog day. Because you only learn about it, and not really from it, we end up repeating it.

Accountable;1416672 wrote: Yes it is your groundhog day. Because you only learn about it, and not really from it, we end up repeating it.The only thing being repeated is what you say - over and over and over and over..................

You want to know the most pertinent lesson we've learned from the second amendment? To never write another one like it.

Ahso!;1416681 wrote: You want to know the most pertinent lesson we've learned from the second amendment? To never write another one like it.
:wah: You may be right. The only disagreement we really have here right now is that I want to follow the law, and you want to circumvent it.

Try this:

1. The second article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.

Would you support such an amendment to the Constitution?

Not really accurate, I'm willing to accept any route that has been interpreted by the courts as legal to remove gun violence from our society. In this case there is no such a thing as "overkill". A repeal of the second amendment would be great, however, would not pass as of today, but other restrictions to access to guns and the banning of others can pass until repeal happens.

Arms, in regards to the second amendment, has been interpreted to mean "common" arms, which were muskets and shotguns, I'd suppose, back when the amendment was created. Now, handguns and rifles are considered common. The gun lobby has pushed sales of assault weapons since 2004 in an attempt to make them "common" so the courts would exempt them from a ban. Next it might be projectiles for all we know. The buck has to stop here and now. Repeal is fine, but so is any other means the courts accept.

Now go on and do your accusing and name-calling - get it out of your system - again. That's my position and you aren't going to change that with eighteenth century constitutional babble.

Ahso!;1416694 wrote: Not really accurate, I'm willing to accept any route that has been interpreted by the courts as legal to remove gun violence from our society. In this case there is no such a thing as "overkill". A repeal of the second amendment would be great, however, would not pass as of today, but other restrictions to access to guns and the banning of others can pass until repeal happens.
Your short-sighted, selfish disregard of law is fairly typical today. Oh I know I won't change your mind, because you like being cared for. Sheep are like that.

Ahso!;1416694 wrote: The gun lobby has pushed sales of assault weapons since 2004 in an attempt to make them "common"


I am interested. Could you pleas back that up?

tude dog;1416697 wrote: I am interested. Could you pleas back that up?I didn't think that sort of thing was important to you guys. It's not a one way street, ya know. How about a disclaimer, would that suffice?

How 'bout this one:

Disclaimer: You wouldn't understand, anyway.

Ahso!;1416727 wrote: I didn't think that sort of thing was important to you guys. It's not a one way street, ya know. How about a disclaimer, would that suffice?

How 'bout this one:

Disclaimer: You wouldn't understand, anyway.


How 'bout NO to the disclaimer. How 'bout the truth, you are just making stuff up. That is honest, something which can be respected.

Ahso!;1416727 wrote: I didn't think that sort of thing was important to you guys. It's not a one way street, ya know. How about a disclaimer, would that suffice?

How 'bout this one:

Disclaimer: You wouldn't understand, anyway.What a hypocrite. You made a claim. Was it based on something or just your proctological opinion? You who constantly demand citations and peer-reviewed studies should at least be willing to hold to your own standard.

Accountable;1416757 wrote: What a hypocrite. You made a claim. Was it based on something or just your proctological opinion? You who constantly demand citations and peer-reviewed studies should at least be willing to hold to your own standard.


Ugggghhhhhh even under "ignore" the assho shows up when quoted. Not you accountable, the lump of cheese you are quoting.

Uggggghhhhhhh. Too ridiculous to respond to. :-3

Ahso

OK - what's the count?

How many have been affected by a "death by gun"? My family has not.

I had a nut put a loaded gun to by head with the intent to kill me.

and yes, alcohol was involved. I was straight & he was under the influence.

Patsy

Accountable;1416757 wrote: What a hypocrite. You made a claim. Was it based on something or just your proctological opinion? You who constantly demand citations and peer-reviewed studies should at least be willing to hold to your own standard.Nah! I'm only courteous for so long. If the courtesy is not returned, I'm no longer obligated to feed them.

What I've said is easy enough to find on his own.

Ahso!;1416629 wrote: 836914

Patsy Warnick;1416812 wrote: Ahso

How many have been affected by a "death by gun"? My family has not.


The exchange student who stayed with my mother killed herself by gun, and my 16-year-old niece was murdered by being shot in the throat. Another young friend of the family was killed by random gunfire outside a Seattle restaurant just recently. My friend from high school was shot through a mobile home door. I, myself, have been shot at four times. Once coming so close to my head the shock wave riffled my hair. Twice when I couldn't even see the shooter. Once where bullets hit the tree I was standing behind.

Nine of my students have committed suicide by gun over the course of my career.

In high school, I too, had a loaded gun pointed at my face at a party. I pointed one at others as well. That's one of the reasons I don't own a gun anymore.

Saint_;1416855 wrote: The exchange student who stayed with my mother killed herself by gun, and my 16-year-old niece was murdered by being shot in the throat. Another young friend of the family was killed by random gunfire outside a Seattle restaurant just recently. My friend from high school was shot through a mobile home door. I, myself, have been shot at four times. Once coming so close to my head the shock wave riffled my hair. Twice when I couldn't even see the shooter. Once where bullets hit the tree I was standing behind.

Nine of my students have committed suicide by gun over the course of my career.

I high school, I too, had a loaded gun pointed at my face at a party. I pointed one at others as well. That's one of the reasons I don't own a gun anymore.


No offense, but I'm glad you don't live around me. I've never heard of anyone having so many gun related incidents.

YZGI;1416864 wrote: No offense, but I'm glad you don't live around me. I've never heard of anyone having so many gun related incidents.


Yeah, New Mexico is the Wild West and no mistake. And I'm not even an aggressive person! I'm just a humble, mild-mannered school teacher! In addition, it's worse now than in the 70s which was the last time I owned a gun! Concealed carry permits are given out like candy, but it's legal to just wear a pistol openly on your belt and many do.

Heck, People strap six shooters on their hips just to go to Walmart.

Saint_;1416874 wrote: Yeah, New Mexico is the Wild West and no mistake. And I'm not even an aggressive person! I'm just a humble, mild-mannered school teacher! In addition, it's worse now than in the 70s which was the last time I owned a gun! Concealed carry permits are given out like candy, but it's legal to just wear a pistol openly on your belt and many do.

Heck, People strap six shooters on their hips just to go to Walmart.


Is this a civilised country or has it returned to the days of the wild west?

Wow - Saint that's a lot of gun activity.

New Mexico - Arizona - it is the wild wild west.

They're all at the OK Corral. :-2

Patsy

Bryn Mawr;1416878 wrote: Is this a civilised country or has it returned to the days of the wild west?


Well, to be honest, New Mexico was the last state to become a state on the continent. It has always been seriously underdeveloped and unpopulated. It was also the scene of much violence and lawlessness all the way into the 20th century. (Movies like "Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid" and "The Searchers" portray that well. The Hole in the Rock Gang operated in my county.)

Moreover, New Mexico is home to the largest Native American reservations and some of the last to be assimilated. (The Navajos, the Apaches (Geronimo), and the Utes, all violent tribes, have reservations within 40 minutes of my home)

So the populations are used to carrying firearms for survival until relatively recently.

Patsy Warnick;1416882 wrote: Wow - Saint that's a lot of gun activity.


Actually, most of the guys I know have much longer and more violent examples.

New Mexico - Arizona - it is the wild wild west.

They're all at the OK Corral. :-2


Good example. My point exactly, although cities like Detroit and L.A. are actually MORE dangerous than New Mexico now due to gang violence, if you can believe that! We have a ton of Mexican Drug cartel violence too, but it's mostly down south by Juarez or in Albuquerque. (See: Breaking Bad)

Safest and Most Dangerous States, 2012 — Infoplease.com

Top 100 most dangerous places to live in the USA - NeighborhoodScout

Saint lives in a Tarantino movie.

YZGI;1416864 wrote: No offense, but I'm glad you don't live around me. I've never heard of anyone having so many gun related incidents.


You still haven't, in all likelihood.

:yh_think

How many of these deaths has been suicide?

I fear auto accidents more than I fear criminals.

Isn't just one auto accident too many?

I laugh when I hear people from highly disarmed society's talk about American gun control. You actually want us to join your oppression party?

But then again, I would rather be laughed at while I have Liberty than pitied for being an enslaved sheep.

But that's my inexperienced and naive opinion given to me by years of liberal public education and hollywood indoctrination.

halfway;1416926 wrote: I fear auto accidents more than I fear criminals.



Isn't just one auto accident too many?



I laugh when I hear people from highly disarmed society's talk about American gun control. You actually want us to join your oppression party?



But then again, I would rather be laughed at while I have Liberty than pitied for being an enslaved sheep.



But that's my inexperienced and naive opinion given to me by years of liberal public education and hollywood indoctrination.


Personally I fear them both, although I think that if you add the number of alcohol related homicides involving guns to the number of alcohol related driving fatalities each year, alcohol related deaths would be the winner.



Seems to me that alcohol is our greatest enemy. Maybe that needs to be addressed.



Oh wait, we already tried that once - didn't we?

flopstock;1416918 wrote: How many of these deaths has been suicide?


While it's true that many suicides would just find another way if guns were gone, MANY would not since other ways are not such a sure thing. Moreover, guns are quick to grab, making a cool down time impossible for people with suicidal thoughts. The suicide argument works against guns, not for them.

As I've said before, we are fixing drunk driving because the death rate became unacceptable. The gun death rate is currently unacceptable (30,000 Americans a year!) and as time goes by, that will get fixed too.

halfway;1416926 wrote: I fear auto accidents more than I fear criminals.

Isn't just one auto accident too many?

I laugh when I hear people from highly disarmed society's talk about American gun control. You actually want us to join your oppression party?

But then again, I would rather be laughed at while I have Liberty than pitied for being an enslaved sheep.

But that's my inexperienced and naive opinion given to me by years of liberal public education and hollywood indoctrination.


Your speech is heavily laced with propaganda, glittering generalities, and buzz-word platitudes. You sound like you've been brainwashed...which you have. That makes the irony of your position even more hilarious.

I don't have to convince you. It's only a matter of time until you, or someone you love is killed by guns. I win either way in the long run.

flopstock;1416929 wrote: Personally I fear them both, although I think that if you add the number of alcohol related homicides involving guns to the number of alcohol related driving fatalities each year, alcohol related deaths would be the winner.



Seems to me that alcohol is our greatest enemy. Maybe that needs to be addressed.



Oh wait, we already tried that once - didn't we?


Indeed we did. And alcohol is not even a personal Liberty protected by the Constitution from an overreaching government.

Kind of makes you wonder what the agenda is when the priorities are so absurd.

Saint_;1416935 wrote: Your speech is heavily laced with propaganda, glittering generalities, and buzz-word platitudes. You sound like you've been brainwashed...which you have. That makes the irony of your position even more hilarious.

I don't have to convince you. It's only a matter of time until you, or someone you love is killed by guns. I win either way in the long run.


You are certainly a scholar who abides by those qualities and expectations you heap on others. Your brain-washing is complete...move along.

Saint_;1416935 wrote: Your speech is heavily laced with propaganda, glittering generalities, and buzz-word platitudes. You sound like you've been brainwashed...which you have. That makes the irony of your position even more hilarious.

I don't have to convince you. It's only a matter of time until you, or someone you love is killed by guns. I win either way in the long run.


I am going to try and empathize with you.

If I disagree with an opposing belief, I will abandon all intellectual honesty, disregard the actual message or statement, and immediately assume the person has been brain-washed thus validating my own beliefs and visions of intellectual superiority.

Nope, doesn't work for me. I cannot empathize with your thought process.

halfway;1416926 wrote: I fear auto accidents more than I fear criminals.

Isn't just one auto accident too many?

I laugh when I hear people from highly disarmed society's talk about American gun control. You actually want us to join your oppression party?

But then again, I would rather be laughed at while I have Liberty than pitied for being an enslaved sheep.

But that's my inexperienced and naive opinion given to me by years of liberal public education and hollywood indoctrination.


Maybe instead of laughing you should put some thought into it. Far from being enslaved sheep as you so politely put it we, the people, demanded that our government ban firearms in the wake of the Dunblane shooting - in the same way as we demanded the end of the death penalty when it became clear how many innocent people were being executed.

Far from being under the thumb of an oppression party, we actually have a level of control over the actions and policies of our government - I'd be interested in seeing you show that the people of the US do.

Bryn Mawr;1416965 wrote: Maybe instead of laughing you should put some thought into it. Far from being enslaved sheep as you so politely put it we, the people, demanded that our government ban firearms in the wake of the Dunblane shooting - in the same way as we demanded the end of the death penalty when it became clear how many innocent people were being executed.

Far from being under the thumb of an oppression party, we actually have a level of control over the actions and policies of our government - I'd be interested in seeing you show that the people of the US do.


Very eloquent. That's what I see too. A growing movement and tide on behalf of the people by the people to stem the tide of blood from gun violence. Isn't it supposed to be a government for the people? Don't we have majority rule in this country? If we are truly a Democracy and truly a country that cares about it's citizen's welfare, we ought to be able to stop the unnecessary deaths of 30,000 of our own citizens yearly.

If it was a war in another country, we, including halfway, would all be outraged. But since it's in our own country we seem to be blind to it.

Saint_;1417002 wrote: Very eloquent. That's what I see too. A growing movement and tide on behalf of the people by the people to stem the tide of blood from gun violence. Isn't it supposed to be a government for the people? Don't we have majority rule in this country? If we are truly a Democracy and truly a country that cares about it's citizen's welfare, we ought to be able to stop the unnecessary deaths of 30,000 of our own citizens yearly.

If it was a war in another country, we, including halfway, would all be outraged. But since it's in our own country we seem to be blind to it.


We are repeatedly told that, despite insisting that the rest of the world should forcibly be converted into democracies, America is not a Democracy, it's a Republic!

Bryn Mawr;1417003 wrote: We are repeatedly told that, despite insisting that the rest of the world should forcibly be converted into democracies, America is not a Democracy, it's a Republic!
You are right, sir. That's Wilsonian progressivism for you, and the power of propaganda. Keep telling the people that the gov't is a democracy and soon they'll start believing it.

Accountable;1417008 wrote: Keep telling the people that the gov't is a democracy and soon they'll start believing it.


There goes my eight grade education....

Ahso!;1416816 wrote: Nah! I'm only courteous for so long. If the courtesy is not returned, I'm no longer obligated to feed them.

What I've said is easy enough to find on his own.


OK, so you just make stuff up. Do you really expect to be taken seriously?

I'll keep that in mind when you ask for proof of a statement I make.

You called me a liar. Misrepresent what I write, and and refuse to admit you make up facts.

tude dog;1417076 wrote: OK, so you just make stuff up. Do you really expect to be taken seriously?

I'll keep that in mind when you ask for proof of a statement I make.

You called me a liar. Misrepresent what I write, and and refuse to admit you make up facts.


The beauty and worth of the ignore feature is removed when quoting this man-child. He is bitter and unpleasant and likely shares no joy in this world. He may also "look" like a troll disguised as a shat-flinging monkey..

But I agree with your post.

Boy, Chicago is certainly leading the nation and they have the tighest gun laws. They must have crimnals that disrespect the law.

I bet the honest citizens are happy with the results.

"Not one more child"? Ha! Are we talking about abortion?

halfway;1417284 wrote: The beauty and worth of the ignore feature is removed when quoting this man-child. He is bitter and unpleasant and likely shares no joy in this world. He may also "look" like a troll disguised as a shat-flinging monkey..

But I agree with your post.


LOL

He also accused me of cheerleading.

What's with the "ignore button?"

The more vicious and angry posts are what I love the most.

There are times I post something stupid, then I'll deal with it.

Not like on this site anybody would let me get away with anything.

Ahso!;1416818 wrote: 9141102

tude dog;1417446 wrote: LOL

He also accused me of cheerleading.

What's with the "ignore button?"

The more vicious and angry posts are what I love the most.

There are times I post something stupid, then I'll deal with it.

Not like on this site anybody would let me get away with anything.


Yeah, but I don't have the time to spend even pondering his mindless drivel. I think he is a "paid" poster to keep threads moving along.

Can't think of much other use for shat-flinging primate of dubious distinction. Hell, even a college janitor or maintenance man has higher intelligence than a shat-flinging monkey.

halfway;1417452 wrote: Yeah, but I don't have the time to spend even pondering his mindless drivel. I think he is a "paid" poster to keep threads moving along.

Can't think of much other use for shat-flinging primate of dubious distinction. Hell, even a college janitor or maintenance man has higher intelligence than a shat-flinging monkey.That really got to you, didn't it. You've been in a defensive mode since. I must have hit the nail because you haven't made any more claims of being part of academia.

Ahso!;1417459 wrote: That really got to you, didn't it. You've been in a defensive mode since. I must have hit the nail because you haven't made any more claims of being part of academia.


Oh gezz,

class warfare

Ahso!;1417447 wrote: 11021130