Parental punishment of children

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:01 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1365432 wrote: In this instance you have a young man who has been caught up in mob mentality in which any punishment as a child would have had no bearing at all.An adequate upbringing, on the other hand, would have kept him from being so stupid.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:19 pm

so in your opinion every riot around the world is perpetrated by undisciplined people?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:22 pm

spot;1365435 wrote: An adequate upbringing, on the other hand, would have kept him from being so stupid.

Then it is time for me to confess, I have a raised a family, most of my offspring were/are fine people.

Why has one shown to be 'stupid'?

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:25 pm

I agree with you there Bruv. My boys are fine and have a good work ethic and enjoy life as to the point of possibilities they have never been hit but are discplined in other ways .

I always wonder what would be said if one of them stuffed up when they are older .......I wonder if I'll be blamed for not inflicting corporal punishment upon them ...even though up to this point they've never needed it.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:29 pm

I am not against physical punishment, it has its place in a parents armoury.(Now thats a word to pick up on)

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:30 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1365448 wrote: so in your opinion every riot around the world is perpetrated by undisciplined people?

How do you get to that conclusion? On the contrary I imagine most riots around the world are directed by disciplined people who've gained experience and maybe even red books about the subject.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:30 pm

spot;1365435 wrote: An adequate upbringing, on the other hand, would have kept him from being so stupid. Adequate? I thought you stated that opinion had no place In discussion?

Another opinion Spot.

Do you have an actual factual verification that his parents were Inadequate? Given that his 7 siblings are model children?

You'r daydreaming about a subject you know nothing of. You do not have a son do you Spot?

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:38 pm

oscar;1365456 wrote: Do you have an actual factual verification that his parents were Inadequate? Given that his 7 siblings are model children?

You'r daydreaming about a subject you know nothing of. You do not have a son do you Spot?Woe and alack, I have oft-times yearned for the opportunity to pass the torch on to a further generation which might honourably bear my name but no woman ever let me work my will upon her. P'raps I'll just go gas myself out of humiliation.

The point of the thread, if we ever get back to it, was to discuss Mr I forget his name it's so far back's parenting methodology vis-a-vis the actuality of England's laws as regards punishment. Tomorrow, maybe.

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:45 pm

Bruv;1365450 wrote: Then it is time for me to confess, I have a raised a family, most of my offspring were/are fine people.

Why has one shown to be 'stupid'?

That's an interesting question and if you'd like to explore it this thread would be an ideal place. I can well understand why you might not want to. On the other hand maybe we could go into it without personal details. I'd like nothing more than to modify my ideas in the light of discussion here. Practically nothing I believed before arriving on ForumGarden has survived the experience.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:45 pm

spot;1365458 wrote: Woe and alack, I have oft-times yearned for the opportunity to pass the torch on to a further generation which might honourably bear my name but no woman ever let me work my will upon her. P'raps I'll just go gas myself out of humiliation.

The point of the thread, if we ever get back to it, was to discuss Mr I forget his name it's so far back's parenting methodology vis-a-vis the actuality of England's laws as regards punishment. Tomorrow, maybe.

I will repeat the question as It seems to have eluded you. Do you have an actual factual verification that his parents were Inadequate? Given that his 7 siblings are model children?

Just to clarify then, you do not have a son, nor ever experienced that son as a wayward teenager running with a gang? You are there-fore wholly unqualified to form any opinion which of course has no place In discussion forums.

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:50 pm

oscar;1365461 wrote: I will repeat the question as It seems to have eluded you. Do you have an actual factual verification that his parents were Inadequate? Given that his 7 siblings are model children?I even gave it in the thread's opening post: "The boy's father blamed the Government for not giving parents the freedom to punish their children".

What, I wonder, does Mr Douglas want to do to his children by way of punishment that this or any other British government has made illegal? It's a frightening thought.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:56 pm

Nothing to 'explore' really.

One child of 7 was a royal pain in the ar*se from nursery school, nothing myself, wife or authorities could do.

1 0f 7 has rarely worked, has done drugs, spent time in jail.

Same 'adequate' upbringing as the other 6, I am sure I could have done better, I am convinced the authorities could have done a lot better.

Have no documentation to back up these claims of course..........................just life experience of it.

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:01 pm

If I could tease out a couple of bits - where did he come in age order? Was he ill enough to be hospitalized during his first couple of years?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:06 pm

spot;1365466 wrote: If I could tease out a couple of bits - where did he come in age order? Was he ill enough to be hospitalized during his first couple of years? Careful Spot. You are asking Bruv questions about personal experience.

A tad hypocritical one must say. Did you not state that personal experiences and opinions have no place In a discussion forum ?

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:09 pm

spot;1365455 wrote: How do you get to that conclusion? On the contrary I imagine most riots around the world are directed by disciplined people who've gained experience and maybe even red books about the subject.

Is this not an opinion that has no place In a discussion forum? Where Is your factual verification of this statement or are you just spouting more bull?

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:10 pm

oscar;1365468 wrote: Careful Spot. You are asking Bruv questions about personal experience.I trust him not to lie for effect. That makes his testimony valuable.

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:11 pm

oscar;1365471 wrote: Is this not an opinion that has no place In a discussion forum? Where Is your factual verification of this statement or are you just spouting more bull?

Valium and sleep, oscar. You're back in manic mode. Calm yourself before the men in white coats arrive.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:13 pm

spot;1365466 wrote: If I could tease out a couple of bits - where did he come in age order? Was he ill enough to be hospitalized during his first couple of years?

And is there some relevance to these questions ?

He is/was the fourth of seven a first born son then daughter then another daughter then the troublesome one followed by a daughter another daughter and finally a son.

He is as fit as a fiddle, he did however loose a finger crushed in a door at 6 years old

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:16 pm

spot;1365473 wrote: Valium and sleep, oscar. You're back in manic mode. Calm yourself before the men in white coats arrive. You have just defined one of my Fathers expressions. " A tiresome squit of a man ".

It all makes sense now.

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:18 pm

oscar;1365478 wrote: You have just defined one of my Fathers expressions. " A tiresome squit of a man ".All through this thread I've carefully avoided blaming him for the way you turned out, I'm not going to start now.

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:20 pm

Bruv;1365476 wrote: And is there some relevance to these questions ?They seemed the sorts of hooks I might find reference to when I go looking in statistical journal indexes.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:47 pm

spot;1365481 wrote: They seemed the sorts of hooks I might find reference to when I go looking in statistical journal indexes.

With all due respect THAT is what is wrong with the freeking social services/authorities, text book statistical analysis, and no bleeding common sense hands on human approach.

An incidence come immediately to mind.

After a shoplifting spree my 12 or 13 year old was summoned to appear at the local police station on a Sunday morning to get a 'warning'

Now remember he is a serial wrongdoer, has been 'in the system' so possibly weeks after the crime, I accompanied him to the cop shop.

We waited in reception until we were called through, we both entered the office were we were met by the prettiest sexiest WPC that had ever patrolled our estate, she was a wee softly spoken little beauty. Remember he is a 12-13 year old with hormones on the rampage confronted by this for a Bo**ocking.

I was embarrassed for the girl, she knew him we knew her and try as much as she could she couldn't have put the frighteners on a mothers meeting.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:49 pm

spot;1365473 wrote: Valium and sleep, oscar. You're back in manic mode. Calm yourself before the men in white coats arrive.

You know I don't usually report posts Spot ...but that was a kind of awful thing to say ...not nice at all.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:52 pm

Bruv;1365509 wrote: With all due respect THAT is what is wrong with the freeking social services/authorities, text book statistical analysis, and no bleeding common sense hands on human approach.

An incidence come immediately to mind.

After a shoplifting spree my 12 or 13 year old was summoned to appear at the local police station on a Sunday morning to get a 'warning'

Now remember he is a serial wrongdoer, has been 'in the system' so possibly weeks after the crime, I accompanied him to the cop shop.

We waited in reception until we were called through, we both entered the office were we were met by the prettiest sexiest WPC that had ever patrolled our estate, she was a wee softly spoken little beauty. Remember he is a 12-13 year old with hormones on the rampage confronted by this for a Bo**ocking.

I was embarrassed for the girl, she knew him we knew her and try as much as she could she couldn't have put the frighteners on a mothers meeting. I agree with you, too many think they are an authority by text books and no personal experience.

There was a similar situation down the nick where on one occasion the wayward teenager was getting a caution. Similar, the young WPC was extremely pretty. On leaving the first thing ours said was not ' OK, I accept the caution and have learned the error of my ways'... But... 'Dad, did you cop the tits on that, she was well fit.'

Post by **spot** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:52 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1365510 wrote: You know I don't usually report posts Spot ...but that was a kind of awful thing to say ...not nice at all.

It happens to Rapunzel too sometimes. Some nights some people are just out looking for someone to fight. There's better things to do with forums.

eta: And Pinky.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:08 pm

spot;1365513 wrote: It happens to Rapunzel too sometimes. Some nights some people are just out looking for someone to fight. There's better things to do with forums.

eta: And Pinky. It Is you always logged In here Spot. It Is you posting above anyone else.

It is also noticeable that the more guests viewing given at the bottom of the page, the more you play to the audience.

Your Insults do not have the effect you seek Spot. As for the post regarding my Father... oh well, at least I knew who mine was eh ?

Fuzzy... please don't report posts on my account. To report the post myself would mean that I was Insulted. To be Insulted, one must actually give a toss about the person making the Insult or care what they thought. Spot's opinions hold no significance In my life.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:36 am

Back to the topic.

I do not advocate corporal punishment.

What has become apparent over the past week, Is that the guilty of rioters are not confined to those In deprived area's.

They seem to fall Into three categories.

1) Area's of social deprivation

2) Middle earners

3) Wealthy

This seems to Indicate that there are many factors contributing to the riots and not Isolated to one cause.

I myself do not buy Into the whole Ideal of social deprivation making kids want to rob and loot. We have had two wars where some area's lived on virtually nothing and rose from the ashes. Certainly, lack of Investment plays a part. It Is not so much the social deprivation but what seems to be a loss of Identity, a loss of a belonging which turns many kids to the street gangs. Much of the looting was organised street gangs using Blackberry to communicate with each other and plan strategy.

In the middle Income earners kids out looting, I believe the problem stems from a growing desire to live beyond your means and having to hold down three jobs to pay for It. Parents are simply not home enough for that essential family bonding. In many Instances, gangs replace parents out at work all day.

A fair article on the subject:

Worried ministers move to tackle rise in gang violence | UK news | The Guardian

I do not believe that the rioters and looters were bored youngsters angry at the establishment. I would wager that most of the looters coming before the courts have already been known to the police.

Where I live, due to mass building on greenbelt, we have hundreds of teenagers roaming about in the school holidays bored witless. To the best of my knowledge, none of them went out rioting. Many of the youngsters coming before the courts now were already on the path to a criminal lifestyle.

My belief, Is that we have bred a nation of Idle, benefit dependents and their children know of nothing else. Not having to contribute to society one jot In return for a house, money, education and free health care, leads some to believe the establishment owes them a living for simply being born.

It Is a vicious circle. We can not expect youngsters to get jobs when many jobs are taken by cheap Eastern European labour. We can not Invest In deprived area's when the country Is suffering cuts In the public sector.

What Is blatantly obvious In young rioters and looters, Is a lack of pride In their country, and a willingness to contribute to society.

Where do we start ?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:26 am

Speaking if discipline I think we need a naughty thread to which spot and oscar can be sent when they squabble. I would suggest spanking but I suspect that might be too much like fun. :sneaky::yh_rotfl

Post by **Betty Boop** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:00 am

gmc;1365591 wrote: Speaking if discipline I think we need a naughty thread to which spot and oscar can be sent when they squabble. I would suggest spanking but I suspect that might be too much like fun. :sneaky::yh_rotfl

They'd spend all their time in there then :rolleyes::wah:

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:36 am

gmc;1365591 wrote: Speaking if discipline I think we need a naughty thread to which spot and oscar can be sent when they squabble. I would suggest spanking but I suspect that might be too much like fun. :sneaky::yh_rotfl

This Naughty thread, should it be a private room ?

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:58 am

Bruv;1365623 wrote: This Naughty thread, should it be a private room ?

bloody-hell not put it in a private room!:wah:

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:53 am

gmc;1365591 wrote: Speaking if discipline I think we need a naughty thread to which spot and oscar can be sent when they squabble. I would suggest spanking but I suspect that might be too much like fun. :sneaky::yh_rotfl

Please desist from sending Images Into my brain that may keep me from sleeping.

The thought of being spanked In the Immediate vicinity of Spot fills me with a combination of horror, revulsion and nausea and may need counselling to recover from.

Unless you're doing the spanking of Spot big boy.... Then I will observe from a safe distance.