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Kathy Ellen;1335600 wrote: I never said we should do away with Halloween Kev. But, why should Betty's child suffer in his own home when Betty has asked the neighbors not to come to her door on Halloween?

Apparently you were able to cope with terror, Betty's child does not have the ability to deal with terror. Why should he suffer in the santuary of his own home?BTW that post was intended as a general statement and not toward you. That's why I always use quotes regardless of who's above me because it only creates confusion when quotes are not used.

Kathy Ellen;1335597 wrote: Hi Kev,



Some things you're saying here are not true.



Many of our public schools in NJ do allow Halloween parties in the classroom and a parade around the school with kidlets dressed up in full costumes.

We also have very nasty, arrogant children, teens and adults who have egged their neighbor's homes and harrassed them because they didn't open their doors to the trick-or-treaters. It cost my neighbor $300 to clean the tossed, rotten eggs from her home.

I can't believe the way some members have spoken to Betty. She has a special needs child who cannot cope with the hubbub of Halloween. Her child needs and deserves peace and quiet, NOT neighbors banging on her door when she's asked them not to.

Perhaps if some members spent a few hours with a special needs child, they would understand how difficult it is for these children to cope with seeing monsters banging on their door.

I work in a school with regular ed kids and special ed kids. You can't even imagine the pain some of the children feel when they encounter things they don't understand.

I can't believe some of the comments some members have made to Betty and really wish some of you would apologize for being so insensitive.

If you think I'm asking too much, just spend a bit of time in a special ed or kindergarten class and see how some of the children react to Halloween.


Sorry Kev, The words in bold were directed to your response to Halloween, and the rest of my thoughts were directed to Saint. Sorry for the confusion.

Kathy Ellen;1335606 wrote: Sorry Kev, The words in bold were directed to your response to Halloween, and the rest of my thoughts were directed to Saint. Sorry for the confusion.Sure I assumed that initially but then you'd asked me seemingly specifically Kathy Ellen;1335600 wrote: I never said we should do away with Halloween Kev. But, why should Betty's child suffer in his own home when Betty has asked the neighbors not to come to her door on Halloween?

Apparently you were able to cope with terror, Betty's child does not have the ability to deal with terror. Why should he suffer in the santuary of his own home?so I will assume also that this wasn't specifically intended for me and that it was more of a general question as to why anyone would be insensitive.



On that I would like to say that no matter what happens there will always be trouble makers. To suggest we get rid of Halloween and this will end is ludicrous.

Here's how I look at it,..instead of getting upset over eggs I'm incredibly thankful those eggs aren't bullets. Columbia comes to mind.

I think Halloween is a wonderful experience myself and I'm sorry that some are unable to enjoy the experience in the same way

Betty Boop;1335299 wrote: Has anyone ever accused you of sounding like a typically arrogant and condescending teacher Jives?


Nope. Mature people don't stoop to name calling.

My son has been diagnosed by a psychologist as having Aspergers, although I didn't need a psychologist to tell me that. No doubt you've done a course on the condition and know all about it. :rolleyes:


Well, since I'm not PSYCHIC, how was I supposed to know that? But what do you know? I suggested a pathology was in effect and I was dead on. I guess you're mad at me for being right....for some unexplained reason.





He is far from being the only child in my circle of friends who is scared of Halloween, we can't all be incompetent Mother's surely?


Hmmm...strange. First you call me names, then you say that I said you were "incompetent" somehow. Let me check....nope, I never said anything like that. I suggested you get help from a professional and I was right. In what way does that threaten you?

I'm sorry if your son's condition makes you overly defensive and prone to lash out unjustly, but I'm NOT sorry that I was correct in thinking that your son's condition was different than other children's and in need of special help. =^..^=

K.Snyder;1335608 wrote:

I think Halloween is a wonderful experience myself and I'm sorry that some are unable to enjoy the experience in the same way


I absolutely agree! : D

Saint_;1335610 wrote: Hmmm...strange. First you call me names, then you say that I said you were "incompetent" somehow. Let me check....nope, I never said anything like that. I suggested you get help from a professional and I was right. In what way does that threaten you?Oh come on, be fair - "Perhaps if you had made a game of "dressing up" when they were younger and going out with them in a safe and controlled way" directly blames Betty for the state her son's in. If that's not an accusation of incompetence I don't know what is.

Saint_;1335610 wrote: Nope. Mature people don't stoop to name calling.



Well, since I'm not PSYCHIC, how was I supposed to know that? But what do you know? I suggested a pathology was in effect and I was dead on. I guess you're mad at me for being right....for some unexplained reason.







Hmmm...strange. First you call me names, then you say that I said you were "incompetent" somehow. Let me check....nope, I never said anything like that. I suggested you get help from a professional and I was right. In what way does that threaten you?

I'm sorry if your son's condition makes you overly defensive and prone to lash out unjustly, but I'm NOT sorry that I was correct in thinking that your son's condition was different than other children's and in need of special help. =^..^=


Saint I think others' contribution to this thread has influenced you to lash out at Betty unjustly. She's not divulged an agenda for an all out ban on Halloween. She's every right to dislike it.

While I can't see a screaming mob of "monsters" pounding on her door I also cannot envision some of those unruly "yobs" passing her house by when they see she's not ready to open her door to everyone.

Middle ground is more than appropriate here.

spot;1335614 wrote: Oh come on, be fair - "Perhaps if you had made a game of "dressing up" when they were younger and going out with them in a safe and controlled way" directly blames Betty for the state her son's in. If that's not an accusation of incompetence I don't know what is.


I agree...you obviously don't know what is.

Merely a suggestion for a possible explanation for abnormally phobic behavior based on what she told me, without the knowledge of her son's condition. Completely logical, since it was entirely obvious that there was unusual behavior.

I'll add that expecting the entire world to conform to one person is ridiculous. And now that this thread has turned into a flame war and an name-calling contest. I'm out of here.

Kathy Ellen;1335597 wrote: Hi Kev,



Some things you're saying here are not true.



Many of our public schools in NJ do allow Halloween parties in the classroom and a parade around the school with kidlets dressed up in full costumes.



We also have very nasty, arrogant children, teens and adults who have egged their neighbor's homes and harrassed them because they didn't open their doors to the trick-or-treaters. It cost my neighbor $300 to clean the tossed, rotten eggs from her home.

I can't believe the way some members have spoken to Betty. She has a special needs child who cannot cope with the hubbub of Halloween. Her child needs and deserves peace and quiet, NOT neighbors banging on her door when she's asked them not to.

Perhaps if some members spent a few hours with a special needs child, they would understand how difficult it is for these children to cope with seeing monsters banging on their door.

I work in a school with regular ed kids and special ed kids. You can't even imagine the pain some of the children feel when they encounter things they don't understand.

I can't believe some of the comments some members have made to Betty and really wish some of you would apologize for being so insensitive.

If you think I'm asking too much, just spend a bit of time in a special ed or kindergarten class and see how some of the children react to Halloween.


Thank you Kathy :-4



I'm not asking for it to banned, I'm asking for tolerance and for it to be toned down, especially within the school setting and in the shops. Just because some like it doesn't mean all do, consideration is possibly what I'm looking for, but how foolish of me, I should be used to being sidelined by now because my son dares to be different.

Betty Boop;1335699 wrote: Thank you Kathy :-4



I'm not asking for it to banned, I'm asking for tolerance and for it to be toned down, especially within the school setting and in the shops. Just because some like it doesn't mean all do, consideration is possibly what I'm looking for, but how foolish of me, I should be used to being sidelined by now because my son dares to be different.


A pretty fair request i would think, all things considered.. but yes you probably are very sadly being foolish,, at least as far as shops are concerned:(

Saint_;1335671 wrote: I agree...you obviously don't know what is.

Merely a suggestion for a possible explanation for abnormally phobic behavior based on what she told me, without the knowledge of her son's condition. Completely logical, since it was entirely obvious that there was unusual behavior.

I'll add that expecting the entire world to conform to one person is ridiculous. And now that this thread has turned into a flame war and an name-calling contest. I'm out of here.


At no point have I shouted for it all to be banned. I have pointed out that there is a section of society that do not understand where the fun is in halloween. My son is not the only child scared by it, and I don't believe you have to be a special needs child to feel scared by it either.

Most long term members here know that my son has Aspergers, after all, I have had threads about him here.

You implied I didn't do the 'right' things in the process of bringing up my son. I implied your attitude was that of a school teacher, yours is the exact same reaction I have experienced from teachers over the last nine years and it is one of little knowledge of these incredibly gifted children. They just don't tick all the boxes that teachers want them to so it looks good on their records.

Betty Boop;1335709 wrote: At no point have I shouted for it all to be banned. I have pointed out that there is a section of society that do not understand where the fun is in halloween. My son is not the only child scared by it, and I don't believe you have to be a special needs child to feel scared by it either.

Most long term members here know that my son has Aspergers, after all, I have had threads about him here.

You implied I didn't do the 'right' things in the process of bringing up my son. I implied your attitude was that of a school teacher, yours is the exact same reaction I have experienced from teachers over the last nine years and it is one of little knowledge of these incredibly gifted children. They just don't tick all the boxes that teachers want them to so it looks good on their records.
I believe the contributions from US posters do not understand the situation In Britain.

My view of Halloween In the States and Canada Is far removed from which we endure here.

If any-one doubts a word of which I am about to write, I will happily pass on E Mails from my local Police Beat team that I still have on my pc as to what action they were forced Into putting Into place last year going by previous years and record numbers of complaints. I am guessing they will be forced to do the same again this time around.

In the States and Canada, Halloween Is very much an affair Involving young children and the 'Trick' part Is no more than some harmless fun.

In this country, we have just had a Police Chief finally admit that due to lack of Police Officers on the Streets, we have lost the streets to yobs..his words.

I live In a small village and community and can tell you that a few weeks prior to Halloween, large notices go up In the local shops saying 'No Eggs and Flour to be sold to under 21 year olds'. That should tell you some-thing right away.

When small children take the trouble to dress up In costume accompanyed by their parents and call for a few sweets, i see no harm If the parent see's fit to Indulge their child.

However, In this country, Halloween has become just another excuse for teenagers who can be up to 6ft tall to call at your home, demand money often with menace and If refused the 'Trick' Is no longer a harmless prank but criminal damage to your property and threatening behaviour.

Last year, i know that In one area of Bristol, my local beat team had to deal with a group 70 strong of strapping teenagers knocking on doors demanding money, 'or else'.

Now you Imagine some frail pensioner looking out of her window and seeing that mob !!!!

In the Estate where I live, I have watched gangs of Teenagers up to 30 strong going from door to door every year calling on what is a predominatly elderly area.

Cars are wrecked, houses come under missiles If these 'yobs' are refused. Local small children out with parents will generally knock up until 9 pm but the teenagers will carry on up until midnight or later. To them, the very name of 'Halloween' Is an excuse to obtain money. Very often they have also been drinking and 'the fun' then turns to hurling missiles at any-thing and every-thing Including passing cars on main roads.

The 'clear up' operation after Halloween Is astronimical.

oscar;1335726 wrote: I believe the contributions from US posters do not understand the situation In Britain.

My view of Halloween In the States and Canada Is far removed from which we endure here.

If any-one doubts a word of which I am about to write, I will happily pass on E Mails from my local Police Beat team that I still have on my pc as to what action they were forced Into putting Into place last year going by previous years and record numbers of complaints. I am guessing they will be forced to do the same again this time around.

In the States and Canada, Halloween Is very much an affair Involving young children and the 'Trick' part Is no more than some harmless fun.

In this country, we have just had a Police Chief finally admit that due to lack of Police Officers on the Streets, we have lost the streets to yobs..his words.

I live In a small village and community and can tell you that a few weeks prior to Halloween, large notices go up In the local shops saying 'No Eggs and Flour to be sold to under 21 year olds'. That should tell you some-thing right away.

When small children take the trouble to dress up In costume accompanyed by their parents and call for a few sweets, i see no harm If the parent see's fit to Indulge their child.

However, In this country, Halloween has become just another excuse for teenagers who can be up to 6ft tall to call at your home, demand money often with menace and If refused the 'Trick' Is no longer a harmless prank but criminal damage to your property and threatening behaviour.

Last year, i know that In one area of Bristol, my local beat team had to deal with a group 70 strong of strapping teenagers knocking on doors demanding money, 'or else'.

Now you Imagine some frail pensioner looking out of her window and seeing that mob !!!!

In the Estate where I live, I have watched gangs of Teenagers up to 30 strong going from door to door every year calling on what is a predominatly elderly area.

Cars are wrecked, houses come under missiles If these 'yobs' are refused. Local small children out with parents will generally knock up until 9 pm but the teenagers will carry on up until midnight or later. To them, the very name of 'Halloween' Is an excuse to obtain money. Very often they have also been drinking and 'the fun' then turns to hurling missiles at any-thing and every-thing Including passing cars on main roads.

The 'clear up' operation after Halloween Is astronimical.
wow.. even the place i used to live ( which wasnt a very good area) wasnt as bad as that,, im lucky where i live now, its lovely and we dont get any bother like that on Halloween

kazalala;1335729 wrote: wow.. even the place i used to live ( which wasnt a very good area) wasnt as bad as that,, im lucky where i live now, its lovely and we dont get any bother like that on HalloweenAnd Clifton, I have to say, might as well be on another planet.

spot;1335735 wrote: And Clifton, I have to say, might as well be on another planet. Your area Is different Spot. You have not had an entire new town... Emerson Green... built In the last 10 years. last time I looked, the new homes build was around 12,000 In 10 years with very little facilities for teenagers except to congregate In large groups. And... They are still building and about to build on Siston Common... some-thing I have naturally protested over for the Fox population and wild-life.

JestersJinx;1334708 wrote: What's everyone planning this year?

With friends, family, kids, haunted houses, costumes, etc.

A friend and I wanted to make a gypsy caravan down in a city for fun, handing out candy and stuff of course, but we're too lazy for that.

I'm most likely going to a big city celebration-thing dressed as a musketeer girl.


Jake picked out his costume the other day, he's gonna be a knight.

Our gradeschools dress up and parade through town. The older classes go through the local nursing home to entertain the residents.

My daughter was quite bumbed when she got to middle school and it was now all over..

In my area Betty - even though trick or treats is in daylight hours only, houses either have their porch lights on or not. that's how kids know who to go to.

flopstock;1335768 wrote: ...In my area Betty - even though trick or treats is in daylight hours only, houses either have their porch lights on or not. that's how kids know who to go to.


She'd said that kids from other neighborhoods come through and doesn't know she doesn't participate. It's evident that Halloween there is pretty much a free-for-all but I remain optimistic that such isn't the case throughout the majority of cities. If not then bag it

Where I live which is a large city of 5 million, seldom is there any sort

any violence..very seldom.

....people handing out candy have the front light on so the kids can see, all parents with any young child are well supervised and come to each home with their child.



Seems like Britain has several issues on what halloween should be like.

Odie;1335925 wrote: Britain has several things to be taught!Britain, to be perfectly honest, has no desire to learn, any why should it.

spot;1335927 wrote: Britain, to be perfectly honest, has no desire to learn, any why should it.


'any why should it' -I think some Brits need spelling & grammar lessons.

no point in explaining Halloween to you as you despise it.....

It's is a world wide event, even in the Philippines, a third world country, the kids make their own costumes....no treats...they just know how to have fun.

-and no, I don't have a link.

Odie;1335941 wrote: 'any why should it' -I think some Brits need spelling & grammar lessons.Seriously, you can't criticize a typo and then follow it with "Philappins".

spot;1335943 wrote: Seriously, you can't criticize a typo and then follow it with "Philappins".


ahem.....I edited mine.

that was not a typo, it was worded wrong.

I love it when a plan comes together.:yh_rotfl

A couple of years ago, even though we gave some sweets to some little children who called (all dressed up), we were later regailed with eggs at our windows by older teenagers! We were a little nervous of going out to clean the smashed eggs from the glass (if allowed to dry, it is exceedingly difficult to clean off), but we did go out and managed to clean the windows. It was obviously the yob element in the area, and absolutely useless calling police, as the perpetrators had long since gone. These teenagers efffectively ruined hallowe'en around our immediate area, as no household gets involved with the fun, now, so the younger children have lost out.

G#Gill;1336888 wrote: A couple of years ago, even though we gave some sweets to some little children who called (all dressed up), we were later regailed with eggs at our windows by older teenagers! We were a little nervous of going out to clean the smashed eggs from the glass (if allowed to dry, it is exceedingly difficult to clean off), but we did go out and managed to clean the windows. It was obviously the yob element in the area, and absolutely useless calling police, as the perpetrators had long since gone. These teenagers efffectively ruined 'hallowe'en around our immediate area, as no household gets involved with the fun, now, so the younger children have lost out.


I haven`t heard of anyone doing that here now in years.

I can imagine how hard it was to clean up that mess.

-why do they do this to other`s property, they don`t care about anyone but themselves.:-5

sure seems you and others over there have tons of problems with teenagers.

Sorry to learn of the difficulties you and your son have encountered, BB, this time of year must be unpleasant for the two of you. When my son Josh was young he was deathly afraid of dogs and so the advice I received from the majority of people was that we should adopt a family dog for him to overcome his fear. To me that was a ridiculous 'solution' because I didn't see this as a problem, to me it was simply a difference. We didn't bother adopting the dog as a remedy and things worked out though Josh just isn't a dog lover, not that he does anything disrespectful to any animal, he simply prefers to live apart from them.

Our cultures, your's and mine, along with the breed of the majority of humans together sort of requires group acceptance in order to be left to ourselves (ironic, isn't it). We've got this problem solving mentality we're in-formed with culturally through the education system in a generational way and, add to that the evolutionary conditions that has caused us to be group minded. Unfortunately, individuality and individual needs often end up on the sacrificial alter.

Personally, I don't care for Halloween either, but then I'm not much of a social animal when it comes to these types rituals and celebrations. The advice you've gotten in this thread I doubt was meant as condescending or ridiculing, though I can see how it can be interpreted as such. The advice is similar to that which I received from well meaning friends and family regarding Josh and dogs. The people giving it are doing the best they can given their breed and mentality.

I hope you find a suitable method of dealing with the situation, BB. Best wishes.

Happy Halloween to those of you who do participate.