ForumGarden

shelbell;1278257 wrote: Some here have gotten what I meant in my OP. I'm not sure why some here just want to complain about others, or insinuate that they expect an apology. What I had hoped for with this thread is that members reach out to other members that they may have had a falling out with, and as odie said, let bygones be bygones.

This is why I used Spot in my OP...we've barely been able to speak just a few civil words to each other, but I would like to "bury the hatchet" and be kinder to each other and accept each other the way we are...and hopefully get a little more harmony on the forum. Even if we don't want to make friends, or make friends again, it's a nice way to put the past behind us.

Way to go Gill, Carolly and Kaz! Isn't it great to let go of the past and start anew? I hope more members will join Gill in reaching out to others. :-6:-4




Thanks shellybelly, for such a good thread. Brilliant idea !

Thanks Carol, and Kaz. Take care of yourselves and have a better 2010 than 2009! XXX :-4 :-6

G#Gill;1278278 wrote: Thanks shellybelly, for such a good thread. Brilliant idea !

Thanks Carol, and Kaz. Take care of yourselves and have a better 2010 than 2009! XXX :-4 :-6


Thanks Gill! :-4

It looks like I over looked ducky and Kathy Ellen...way to go!!!! :-6

Clodhopper;1278241 wrote: ducks: Perhaps it might help if you realised that people who slag off behind backs and pass nasty notes are actually demonstrating what cowardly pathetic little nasties they are. As far as I'm concerned, they might as well wander round with a sign saying "I'm a grade 1 c**t and I've proved it."

I should add - I don't actually know who these people are, and I don't want to.


My senitments exactly:yh_worshp:yh_wave:yh_hugs

Aren't we getting a little too serious here?

Of course it was in jest shellybelly, .....I do believe I probably beat Spot to it:wah: Oh well, I shall run the gauntlet of critics and see if I can come out of hte other end with few wounds.:wah:

ahhh I'm clever, see how I used another North American idiom to continue my jest? :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

correction, I'm not so clever after all. The term is 'gauntelope' and the north american indians used it after seeing the british use it as a punishment on themselves. Interesting.:wah:

Betty Boop;1278295 wrote: Things were said in jest, I can see that. Putting a smiley laughing face next to a remark which is not really a joke in itself but a dig doesn't make it a joke. That's fine, I'm pretty sure Spot will walk on by it, he doesn't take things personally like that, I just wanted to point out the hypocrisy. :-6


I did see about 3 or 4 others, but as you said, Spot will walk on by them. Who knows, he may even have me on ignore and not read my thread, but I honestly hope he at least reads my OP. And as many people do, I think we can agree to disagree without having any problems between us. It's all about interpretations and how one person can read something one way, and another can see it entirely different. I do appreciate you're thoughts on the subject tho, and am bothered by any remarks that are aimed at one member when this is supposed to be a type of "make up" and "let it go" thread. :-4

fuzzywuzzy;1278297 wrote: Aren't we getting a little too serious here?

Of course it was in jest shellybelly, .....I do believe I probably beat Spot to it:wah: Oh well, I shall run the gauntlet of critics and see if I can come out of hte other end with few wounds.:wah:

ahhh I'm clever, see how I used another North American idiom to continue my jest? :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl


fuzzywuzzy;1278300 wrote: correction, I'm not so clever after all. The term is 'gauntelope' and the north american indians used it after seeing the british use it as a punishment on themselves. Interesting.:wah:


I understood the word gauntlet...but have never heard the word gauntelope...now i'm just confused fuzzynavel. :wah: And i doubt you'll end up with any wounds. :-4

shellbell spot is made of thicker stuff......emphasise on the 'thicker' :yh_rotfl

He will find it a sincere and an amusing and a delectable thread .

You're a good person for putting this thread up.:-4

shelbell;1278303 wrote: I understood the word gauntlet...but have never heard the word gauntelope...now i'm just confused fuzzynavel. :wah: And i doubt you'll end up with any wounds. :-4


Yeah I looked it up and apparently it changed from gauntilope to gauntlet ......You were either put to death or you had to run the gauntilope ....and if you survived it you wished you were dead. a gauntlet is actually the gloves worn by medievial soldiers. *shrugs*

see you've learnt something from my silliness. :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl

fuzzywuzzy;1278304 wrote: shellbell spot is made of thicker stuff......emphasise on the 'thicker' :yh_rotfl

He will find it a sincere and an amusing and a delectable thread .

You're a good person for putting this thread up.:-4


fuzzywuzzy;1278305 wrote: Yeah I looked it up and apparently it changed from gauntilope to gauntlet ......You were either put to death or you had to run the gauntilope ....and if you survived it you wished you were dead. a gauntlet is actually the gloves worn by medievial soldiers. *shrugs*

see you've learnt something from my silliness. :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl


thanks fuzzy, and i really do hope he sees it.

and yes i did learn something from your silliness. :wah::-4

Betty Boop;1278282 wrote: Have you read your own signature lately, given the thread's aspirations, I'd say that that sort of comment does little to ease the situation hey!

"Deal with the faults of others as gently as with your own."




- surely you must have noticed all of the other posts explaining the problems some of us have gone through last year?

nasty emails, pms, things said behind closed doors, stabbing each other in the back, gossiping via facebook, live chat, twitter, pm's etc. etc etc.?



sometimes the faults of others Betty as you well know, cannot be dealt with gently.



- did you not notice I apologized to anyone I may have upset?



'I apologize if I hurt or upset anyone here.

It was never my intent to do this.

If I have, please contact me and we can discuss this.'





-will you apologize for picking on me only?

Odie;1278370 wrote: This thread went off track, so many of us have brought up things that have bothered us here, bickering, nasty emails, pms, facebook, stabbing one another in the back, gossiping, things that go on behind closed doors, etc, etc, etc, you surely must have noticed that, so why is it your only bringing this up with me?

sometimes the faults of others as you well know, cannot be dealt with gently.

- did you not notice I apologized to anyone I may have upset?



-will you apologize for picking on me only?


Yes, I'll apologise, when you apologise specifically to the one person you are happily badmouthing through email, PM etc.

shelbell;1278287 wrote: Oh, I think it was harmless Betty, there have been some other comments about putting a hatchet in Spots head, and i believe they were meant in jest, yet at the same time I understand where you are coming from and you do understand the aspirations of this thread....but if we are to chastise odie for this comment, then we'd have to chastise others that have done the same thing. :-6:-4


thank you shell!:)

what you said is true, why chastise just me?

that's not right to do to anyone here.

This is exactly how arguments start, and we just started a new year?

I'm outta here Shell, as this has been to much for me.





and you know what Shell?

sometimes the faults of others cannot be dealt with gently.

AussiePam;1278121 wrote: I think there are some forums which exist only for that, rather sadly, Kathy. Also, real forum addicts seem to post furiously (in all senses of the word) everywhere. In my past wanderings, I kept running into the same people - with different names, usually of course. Pam... I have read your posts here and I think you are trying to give everyone the entirely wrong Impression. No-one here to my knowledge is a forum junkie and belongs to many forums. For One.. If anyone does not have enough to fill their time and does indeed belong to many forums, then that is entirely their business and something that no one has to right to frown upon.

I joined another forum some months ago and I stayed there because I happen to like the people on that forum. Not because I am a forum addict or anything else. Infact Pam, It is the same forum that you yourself joined before me and I understand you also tried joining the EA forum but your e mail address was blocked. Yet, here you are in what seems to be a condescending post, refering to others who belong to other forums. Most of the people on the forum that you and I are on now are there due to being banned from here.

I have posted on that forum that there are people here that I think the world of and a few who I have no time for. For the record, I post on that forum because I have my own Political section. That Is my main Interest and many here do not contribute to the Political topics of the day as I would like. I also belong to two British forums that are Politics only with no fluffy threads about kittens. I go there to read and learn rather than to post.

You come across as being rather smug Pam. I don't know If that was your Intention but you do not know circumstances of people's lives and why they are on forums. I remember you making some nasty post to myself over a year ago about my being on here as much as I was. As I pointed out to you, my husband was recovering from his surgery and I was at home all day looking after him. You ended up apologising to me. Equally so, You do not know any-one's personal circumstances and for some, It may be the only social contact they may have of a day.

Some may have miserable rotton lives and this and other forums may be their only outlet.

Shell set a challenge by starting this thread and maybe you should try to be more tolerant of others.

I have not been here as much as I'd like of late simply because I am out every day and most evenings now, not for any other reason. I come here still because as I said, there are members here who I think the world of and want to stay In contact with however busy I am.

Clodhopper;1278241 wrote: ducks: Perhaps it might help if you realised that people who slag off behind backs and pass nasty notes are actually demonstrating what cowardly pathetic little nasties they are. As far as I'm concerned, they might as well wander round with a sign saying "I'm a grade 1 c**t and I've proved it."

I should add - I don't actually know who these people are, and I don't want to.


Well they sure did on another forum for the entire planet to read...& yes I agree with you

el guapo;1278268 wrote: i cant see how burying a hatchet in poor spots head can help


Rather nasty thing to say with a smily face next to it. He doesn't really bother me at all.

shelbell;1278257 wrote:

I would like to "bury the hatchet" and be kinder to each other and accept each other the way we are




I honestly dont see how burying a hatchet in someones head is being kind. Not to mention no one is going to accept someone as they are if an axe is buried in their skull. You just cant talk to a person and pretend its not there.

It doesnt seem like youve thought this all the way through.

Nomad;1278386 wrote: I honestly dont see how burying a hatchet in someones head is being kind. Not to mention no one is going to accept someone as they are if an axe is buried in their skull. You just cant talk to a person and pretend its not there.

It doesnt seem like youve thought this all the way through. Your Spot on there Foamie. The damage Incurred by a person with a hatchet in their skull would of course depend entirely on volume of brain matter. For a person with only one brain cell floating freely, looking for a friend in all that Cerebrospinal fluid, the damage caused by the hatchet being embedded In their skull would be far less than a person who had a normal brain. To test the levels of damage successfully, one would need to take 2 specimens and carry out some experimentation. All we need to do Is find 2 Volunteers, one with a normal brain and one with only one brain cell. Where do you suggest we look Foamie Einstien?

I suggest we find the specimen with one brain cell on the 'Jeremy Kyle' show but I have no Idea where to find some-one with a normal brain. Most men's brains are In their Pants so It will have to be a woman.

Ok people I am getting really close to asking that this thread be closed. As I've stated before, the intentions of this thread is one of friendship and forgiveness, making up or just making things right...or at least trying to. I'm really disappointed how it's become a free for all like so many other threads. As I'm sure most of your mothers told you, "if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all".

I opened myself up for everyone to see by trying to make amends with Spot...this was very hard for me, but I realized I was judging him on his posts. The problem with the written word is that it can so easily be taken out of context or misinterpreted because we can't hear the infliction of a persons voice, we can't see the expression on their face. Like I said, it's about reaching out to someone you've had a problem with, it's not about apologizing! Agree to disagree but with some respect and some benefit of the doubt...I do not expect everyone to just forget everything and make up as friends...just a little harmony on here would be nice.

As I said, I opened myself up with a true heart and exposed myself for one of MY wrongs on here...and now some of you just want to make a joke about hatchets...that hurts me! I opened myself up and now people are making a big joke out of my OP. Please stop.

I've just got a single blonde brain cell, and am it seems in the poo, Oscar - so feel free to hatchet away.

Actually, I was delighted to recognise you in 24. My ties there go back a long way, but I'm almost never there, and then only normally post in the Aussie Forum. It was a New Year goodwill visit. Congrats on having your own Forum. I'm aware you don't like me. I don't have a problem with that, but I am immune to emotional blackmail. We all of us, as you note, have our own difficulties. And I think I did say it would be good if we tried to make each other's lives easier, not harder. I meant that for myself too and included myself among flawed humanity. If that's smug, I'll wear it.

My shortlived attempt at visiting the other forum you mentioned was by invitation, and okay, curiosity. As you noted, I was not allowed in the door. Being deliberately excluded like that felt quite bad, really.

Any way, it is a new year, and I'd like to continue it with a clean slate.

My sincere apologies to anyone who felt offended by anything I have written in here.

And Shelbell, you did good. I think we all do some soulsearching at this time of the year and I think your thread has been a positive one. You rock.

Thank you Pam. :-6

shelbell;1278427 wrote: Ok people I am getting really close to asking that this thread be closed. As I've stated before, the intentions of this thread is one of friendship and forgiveness, making up or just making things right...or at least trying to. I'm really disappointed how it's become a free for all like so many other threads. As I'm sure most of your mothers told you, "if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all".

I opened myself up for everyone to see by trying to make amends with Spot...this was very hard for me, but I realized I was judging him on his posts. The problem with the written word is that it can so easily be taken out of context or misinterpreted because we can't hear the infliction of a persons voice, we can't see the expression on their face. Like I said, it's about reaching out to someone you've had a problem with, it's not about apologizing! Agree to disagree but with some respect and some benefit of the doubt...I do not expect everyone to just forget everything and make up as friends...just a little harmony on here would be nice.

As I said, I opened myself up with a true heart and exposed myself for one of MY wrongs on here...and now some of you just want to make a joke about hatchets...that hurts me! I opened myself up and now people are making a big joke out of my OP. Please stop.


i havent checked by looking back yet, so i dont know who started the convo of other forums, but i think this thread was already pretty much derailed about talk of other forums when i got here,, but i did contribute with my added talk of other forums so i do apologise for my part in the derailment of your thread Shell:) the rest of my post was i think in keeping with the topic as in apologising etc,, and just with my personal thoughts on it,, but i would like to add i have not asked for, nor do i expect an apology from anyone. But that dont mean i didnt apreciate Gills apology.

Im sure Spot will appreciate your attempt to make things right with him:)

It's a problem that crops up time and again (and not only here - I see it on my sport forum a great deal): There is no tone of voice in the written word itself. But our brain, when we read, puts one there. Chances of it being the same as the one the writer intended are variable, depending on factors like mood, the skill of the writer in this aspect of prose creation, and even things like time of day, weather, nationality, and sobriety or the lack of it. The problem is especially acute when using say, irony, which often needs tone of voice to make it apparent. Emoticons may help, but tey are not a complete solution.

I think the above counts for very many of the problems which occur between people on this site. It's not the whole story, but it's a significant part of it.

And since the issue has arisen - spot.

Now, I know he's upset lots of people. The man's an absolute truffle hound for the truth and he ain't half-hearted when attacking arguments he disagrees with or thinks are weak. But he isn't attacking people, he's attacking arguments and the actions that follow which he considers wrong. He's not here for purely social interaction of the coffee morning variety (mental picture....giggle) he's here to argue serious issues.

If you ever want to test a theory you have, present it to spot and ask him to savage it. You may not agree with his reply, but by gum, you'll know where the weak points are!

Just don't expect a pit bull to be a poodle.

shelbell;1278427 wrote: Ok people I am getting really close to asking that this thread be closed. As I've stated before, the intentions of this thread is one of friendship and forgiveness, making up or just making things right...or at least trying to. I'm really disappointed how it's become a free for all like so many other threads. As I'm sure most of your mothers told you, "if you can't say something nice, then don't say anything at all".

I opened myself up for everyone to see by trying to make amends with Spot...this was very hard for me, but I realized I was judging him on his posts. The problem with the written word is that it can so easily be taken out of context or misinterpreted because we can't hear the infliction of a persons voice, we can't see the expression on their face. Like I said, it's about reaching out to someone you've had a problem with, it's not about apologizing! Agree to disagree but with some respect and some benefit of the doubt...I do not expect everyone to just forget everything and make up as friends...just a little harmony on here would be nice.

As I said, I opened myself up with a true heart and exposed myself for one of MY wrongs on here...and now some of you just want to make a joke about hatchets...that hurts me! I opened myself up and now people are making a big joke out of my OP. Please stop.


My not joining in on the thread so far has had nothing to do with having anyone on ignore or not "having the balls to do it" or "assuming they are above everyone else", it's to do with

Welcome, spot.

You last visited: 12-27-2009 at 12:41 AM

which is, I hope, sufficient excuse.

Shel, I can't think of a single occasion when I've felt unhappy about anything you've posted though I'm quite aware that you've been upset by some of my own opinions. By all means judge me on my posts, it's all you have to judge me on. I'm continually staggered that the people of America don't fall to their knees crying in shame at the foreign policy their country's pursued over their lifetime, and when asked I'm more than happy to give chapter and verse on why it ought to be their natural reaction. You, on the other hand, see "supporting our troops" as reasonable despite the dishonorable and abusive nature of their collective acts.

George Bush threw down the gauntlet when he insisted that "either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists". Who's "us" in this context? Half the people on this board insist it's the American people, America itself. I dispute that. I'm entirely on the side of the American people. If they ever manage to get out on the street and prosecute the self-centered criminals who hijacked Washington I'll be overjoyed. Meanwhile don't expect me to clap whenever the Empire's military muscle occupies other countries, don't expect me to applaud brainless patriotic fervor when it props up recruitment.

Now, you tell me why on earth my holding those opinions makes you feel that I dislike you. As I read it, it explicitly says that I do like you, that I enjoy sharing threads with you, that I'd enjoy showing up at an FG meeting and spending time socializing with you. You're an American. That's a plus from where I'm standing, I enjoy the company of Americans. You're an interesting poster, I enjoy chatting with interesting posters. Agree to disagree but with some respect. My point of view is entirely respectable, just as yours is. You have obviously good reasons for disagreeing with me and I've never been unhappy that your opinion is what it is. I don't even go so far as to say I'm right in what I say, merely that I'm accurate. I've always been prepared to change my mind on any topic and, hard though it might be to believe, I've changed it in the past on FG and said so. No opinion should be cast in stone and declared unalterable. What changes my mind is reasoned argument based on fact. It's irresistible.

It's kind of you to have started the thread. If you find what I say intolerable then that's unfortunate and I regret any upset you feel, now or in the past. I'm not sure I should be held responsible for it though. I certainly wish you well and hope you enjoy posting here.

I agree with Betty's comment Shell:-6 Your thoughts to make FG a more peaceful place were admirable. Thank you;)





Pam:-6 You have done nothing wrong and don't need to apologize for your comments. You were only responding to my posts and your advice, as always, was spot on.....sensible. Thank you for helping me see things more clearly.

kazalala;1278444 wrote: i havent checked by looking back yet, so i dont know who started the convo of other forums, but i think this thread was already pretty much derailed about talk of other forums when i got here,, but i did contribute with my added talk of other forums so i do apologise for my part in the derailment of your thread Shell:) the rest of my post was i think in keeping with the topic as in apologising etc,, and just with my personal thoughts on it,, but i would like to add i have not asked for, nor do i expect an apology from anyone. But that dont mean i didnt apreciate Gills apology.

Im sure Spot will appreciate your attempt to make things right with him:)


Kaz, I just don't know why some pics from Photobucket turn into that flamin notice! I've re-done it twice now, and if you nip back to my post to you No.47, hopefully the pic will be visible (for a short while !) grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :-6

G#Gill;1278459 wrote: Kaz, I just don't know why some pics from Photobucket turn into that flamin notice! I've re-done it twice now, and if you nip back to my post to you No.47, hopefully the pic will be visible (for a short while !) grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr :-6


it dont matter:wah:its only a pic:wah:

kazalala;1278460 wrote: it dont matter:wah:its only a pic:wah:


Sorry, Mrs, but it matters to me !

In case it has gone again - Photobucket search 'sorry' then page 6 and it's bottom right - a toddler with a red top and big innocent eyes saying 'I am really sorry'. I thought it was a lovely little pic, and such a cute little face, and such big eyes ! :-4 :-6

Kathy Ellen;1278086 wrote: Hello Shell:-6



I really appreciate your thoughts about friendships in FG as it is so disturbing what goes on behind the scenes.



It's just unfortunate that a few members, and it's truly is just a few, will act innocent, loving and caring and then turn around and write nasty pm's and emails about members here.....AND also write nasty things about FG members on other sites.....How is that being a friend?



Perhaps those members should 'cop onto themselves' and be more civil and stop this nonsense.



It would be so nice to get back to the Forum Garden that we once knew. Guess that's how the cycle goes...good times and bad times.
I am so glad that I honestly have no idea what you are talking about!

But I am aware the atmosphere has cooled here somewhat of late. I am so sorry that this has occurred. It is exceptionally unfortunate as this was an incredibly wonderful place full of laughter and debates of difficult subjects. I have noticed the boards have become a bit banal of late, but I am sure it will pass. We're a resilient lot. We bounce.

I dont want to know or get involved with the nastiness that goes on. I know who my friends are here, and they know me. Really. They have been to my house. And we have broken bread and drank wine and had many a merry adventure together. And I am positive we will have so many more! They are why I keep coming back. I enjoy their company and I treasure their friendship. I refuse to speak ill of people, for I would hate it to be spoken ill of. I refuse to deliberately hurt anyone, because I know how vile that feels. As for the childish playground antics of a few, well it's probably because they are still children.

I totally agree that this is nonsense and it must stop. Well said KE!

Clodhopper;1278447 wrote: It's a problem that crops up time and again (and not only here - I see it on my sport forum a great deal): There is no tone of voice in the written word itself. But our brain, when we read, puts one there. Chances of it being the same as the one the writer intended are variable, depending on factors like mood, the skill of the writer in this aspect of prose creation, and even things like time of day, weather, nationality, and sobriety or the lack of it. The problem is especially acute when using say, irony, which often needs tone of voice to make it apparent. Emoticons may help, but tey are not a complete solution.

I think the above counts for very many of the problems which occur between people on this site. It's not the whole story, but it's a significant part of it.

And since the issue has arisen - spot.

Now, I know he's upset lots of people. The man's an absolute truffle hound for the truth and he ain't half-hearted when attacking arguments he disagrees with or thinks are weak. But he isn't attacking people, he's attacking arguments and the actions that follow which he considers wrong. He's not here for purely social interaction of the coffee morning variety (mental picture....giggle) he's here to argue serious issues.

If you ever want to test a theory you have, present it to spot and ask him to savage it. You may not agree with his reply, but by gum, you'll know where the weak points are!

Just don't expect a pit bull to be a poodle.




this my friend is very true, and its not good when one 'doesn't ask how it was meant to sound', they just assume.

'There is no tone of voice in the written word itself. But our brain, when we read, puts one there.'

Just my thoughts on this wonderful challenge that has been presented to all of us:

PRINCIPLES OF FORGIVENESS

True Forgiveness is an act of grace empowered by God

Forgiveness is not easy. In fact, I suspect that many of you here today are already bristling at the idea of extending forgiveness to someone who has hurt you. It's an unnatural act. We desire justice and vindication. We want to get even . . . no, we want to get ahead! To forgive someone requires the work of God in your life. This is NOT a natural act . . . it is a supernatural act. How else do you explain a parent who can forgive someone who murdered their child? How else do you explain the spouse who forgives a mate for their adultery? These things happen only as a result of God working through them.

True Forgiveness results in a changed attitude toward another

What does it mean to forgive a person? In Thomas Watson's book on the Lord's Prayer he writes,

When have we truly forgiven? When we strive against all thoughts of revenge; when we will not do our enemies mischief, but wish well to them, grieve at their calamities, pray for, seek reconciliation with them, and show ourselves ready on all occasions to relieve them. This is gospel- forgiving.

Forgiveness has taken place when we can honestly seek good for the other person. It is when we make an effort to restore a relationship rather than avoid the relationship. Forgiveness has taken place when past actions no longer hold a present bearing. Forgiveness is real when hate is replaced by love.

To read more: "Forgiveness - Letting Go of the Hurt" Colossians 3:13

OK, i will chuck my tuppence worth in, i seldom get too serious though.

Everyone has their reason for being here, mine, i love to read posts and sometimes communicate with people from different parts of the World.

I watch and can see the the temperature rising from some members and wonder why some just infuriate others, i put it down to lack of understanding and upbringing.

I have no one on ignore and never will again, i did have one for a while, just had to peep though so thought what the heck just don't rise to the bait. The silly sod thought i was a new member and started lecturing me. Me Soberano, cheeky twot.:wah: Friends now.

Basically, i wish i could meet all of you, i wish no one any harm or bad fortune, most of you fascinate me, such a wide knowledge of all things on this forum. So not everyone is interested in the same thing, what a boring World if we were all the same.

Another thing, stop picking on people that cant spell, i am ***** at Chemistry and Physics and a million other things, so what, i don't give a toss, i am still capable of communication and the art of conversation.

Just remember we are all members of the same club, i admire a lot of people i have never met, where else could you say that.

To finish i would just like to say that if you are a young good looking chick, i admire you most.:D

shelbell;1278014 wrote: Out with the old and lets ring in the new, and what a better day to do this than New Years Day. FG used to be such a wonderful place to me. There was such a spirit of friendship and comaraderie...but so much of that has seemed to disappear. Too much fighting, arguing, flaming, baiting, ganging up on, and some just plain meaness. I believe it's never too late to put the past behind us and start anew.

So here is my challenge for all of us, myself included...lets set aside some of our differences that have caused many a lot of pain and anguish, and find at least one person to make amends to.

I'll start....

To Spot it seems we butt heads whenever we're on the same threads...I'd like to bury the hatchet and wish you a very happy and wonderful new year! :-6


You know what's funny? I was here about two years ago...and saw the same exact thread! What does that mean? Probably that hurt feelings, uncivil behavior, and rudeness are (sadly) an integral part of the online forum experience. There's something about being anonymously online with strangers that you know you'll never meet in real life that seems to bring out the worst in some people. (And I'm surely not leaving myself out here, I'm notorious for it.)

That said, I think it's a wonderful idea and I wholeheartedly support it. Just because we've failed before is no reason to give up trying to be good. As a matter of fact, isn't life, itself, a long, uphill battle, wish, and aspiration to be better than you are now?:rolleyes:

spot;1278450 wrote:

It's kind of you to have started the thread. If you find what I say intolerable then that's unfortunate and I regret any upset you feel, now or in the past. I'm not sure I should be held responsible for it though. I certainly wish you well and hope you enjoy posting here.Excellent point, Spot. This is really the heart of the matter as far as I can tell.

No one other than me can be responsible for my feelings. Others speak from their own perspective and the words may awaken certain past experiences that caused feelings of smallness or other past insults to listeners. Where they derived from only the person experiencing the feelings could know if they took the time to self-examine. Unfortunately though, these past experiences are often too unpleasant to remember or have been rationalized and/or suppressed. They show themselves at the worse times though, it seems.

The intent behind this thread is a good one I think, but I doubt it will go very far because feeling don't just disappear with apologies, they need to be recognized and reconciled through a process.

We like to think that life is a movie and a magic word, suggestion or lecture (usually given - not taken) fixes life's tragedies for everyone, but life is not a movie, its real and long and hard work.

Ahso!;1278573 wrote: Excellent point, Spot. This is really the heart of the matter as far as I can tell.

No one other than me can be responsible for my feelings. Others speak from their own perspective and the words may awaken certain past experiences that caused feelings of smallness or other past insults to listeners. Where they derived from only the person experiencing the feelings could know if they took the time to self-examine. Unfortunately though, these past experiences are often too unpleasant to remember or have been rationalized and/or suppressed. They show themselves at the worse times though, it seems.

The intent behind this thread is a good one I think, but I doubt it will go very far because feeling don't just disappear with apologies, they need to be recognized and reconciled through a process.

We like to think that life is a movie and a magic word, suggestion or lecture (usually given - not taken) fixes life's tragedies for everyone, but life is not a movie, its real and long and hard work.
good post:)

spot;1278450 wrote: My not joining in on the thread so far has had nothing to do with having anyone on ignore or not "having the balls to do it" or "assuming they are above everyone else", it's to do with

Welcome, spot.

You last visited: 12-27-2009 at 12:41 AM

which is, I hope, sufficient excuse.

Shel, I can't think of a single occasion when I've felt unhappy about anything you've posted though I'm quite aware that you've been upset by some of my own opinions. By all means judge me on my posts, it's all you have to judge me on. I'm continually staggered that the people of America don't fall to their knees crying in shame at the foreign policy their country's pursued over their lifetime, and when asked I'm more than happy to give chapter and verse on why it ought to be their natural reaction. You, on the other hand, see "supporting our troops" as reasonable despite the dishonorable and abusive nature of their collective acts.

George Bush threw down the gauntlet when he insisted that "either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists". Who's "us" in this context? Half the people on this board insist it's the American people, America itself. I dispute that. I'm entirely on the side of the American people. If they ever manage to get out on the street and prosecute the self-centered criminals who hijacked Washington I'll be overjoyed. Meanwhile don't expect me to clap whenever the Empire's military muscle occupies other countries, don't expect me to applaud brainless patriotic fervor when it props up recruitment.

Now, you tell me why on earth my holding those opinions makes you feel that I dislike you. As I read it, it explicitly says that I do like you, that I enjoy sharing threads with you, that I'd enjoy showing up at an FG meeting and spending time socializing with you. You're an American. That's a plus from where I'm standing, I enjoy the company of Americans. You're an interesting poster, I enjoy chatting with interesting posters. Agree to disagree but with some respect. My point of view is entirely respectable, just as yours is. You have obviously good reasons for disagreeing with me and I've never been unhappy that your opinion is what it is. I don't even go so far as to say I'm right in what I say, merely that I'm accurate. I've always been prepared to change my mind on any topic and, hard though it might be to believe, I've changed it in the past on FG and said so. No opinion should be cast in stone and declared unalterable. What changes my mind is reasoned argument based on fact. It's irresistible.

It's kind of you to have started the thread. If you find what I say intolerable then that's unfortunate and I regret any upset you feel, now or in the past. I'm not sure I should be held responsible for it though. I certainly wish you well and hope you enjoy posting here.


If I find what you say as intolerable then it is from me reading into it, and I never said that you should be held responsible. I just know that at times we seem to have really butted heads, but this is my deal...i would never ask for, or insinuate that you need to ever apologize to me over your opinions. My intention was and is to make things right that I have done wrong. And trust me, the comment about not having the balls was not directed at you. :wah: I'd like for us to get along. :-6

A little extra from me. I used to wonder what spot was up to in his posts sometimes, then i met the man.

I can only say he is one of the most delightful intelligent man i have ever had the pleasure to meet.

So before you judge anyone, meet the person first, no bugger knows sod all about anybody on a forum really.

I have met a few on here, you know who you are and you have all been really nice without exception.

shelbell;1278588 wrote: If I find what you say as intolerable then it is from me reading into it, and I never said that you should be held responsible. I just know that at times we seem to have really butted heads, but this is my deal...i would never ask for, or insinuate that you need to ever apologize to me over your opinions. My intention was and is to make things right that I have done wrong. And trust me, the comment about not having the balls was not directed at you. :wah: I'd like for us to get along. :-6


Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness.

I absolve you, shelbell. Your sins are forgiven you. What's more, I shall make a particular point of checking every post I make to you henceforth to be certain they carry no tone of judgement or rebuke. Whatever error may have passed between us in the past, I'm quite sure it was avoidable on my part and that I failed in my duty to avoid it. You have nothing to rebuke yourself for.

Ahso!;1278573 wrote: Excellent point, Spot. This is really the heart of the matter as far as I can tell.

No one other than me can be responsible for my feelings. Others speak from their own perspective and the words may awaken certain past experiences that caused feelings of smallness or other past insults to listeners. Where they derived from only the person experiencing the feelings could know if they took the time to self-examine. Unfortunately though, these past experiences are often too unpleasant to remember or have been rationalized and/or suppressed. They show themselves at the worse times though, it seems.

The intent behind this thread is a good one I think, but I doubt it will go very far because feeling don't just disappear with apologies, they need to be recognized and reconciled through a process.

We like to think that life is a movie and a magic word, suggestion or lecture (usually given - not taken) fixes life's tragedies for everyone, but life is not a movie, its real and long and hard work.


Ahso, the intent behind this thread is not about apologies, and no one is asking for feelings to go away. I was just asking for people to reach out to each other and stop the bickering. No one HAS to make nice and be best friends. Just asking for people to show a little more respect to each other, agree to disagree, and to bring some harmony back to this site...to make this site a place people want to come to, and/or return to.

My New Year's Resolution is to remember that online posting isn't reality.

The people online don't really know me, nor are they a part of my life. So there's no reason to ever get upset over anything they say.

spot;1278595 wrote: Insofar as I may be heard by anything, which may or may not care what I say, I ask, if it matters, that you be forgiven for anything you may have done or failed to do which requires forgiveness.

I absolve you, shelbell. Your sins are forgiven you. What's more, I shall make a particular point of checking every post I make to you henceforth to be certain they carry no tone of judgement or rebuke. Whatever error may have passed between us in the past, I'm quite sure it was avoidable on my part and that I failed in my duty to avoid it. You have nothing to rebuke yourself for.


Thank you spot. :-6

oscar;1278642 wrote: One was merely responding to your post that political forums were mind masterbation. I took that as an Insult as I frequent them regually In order to broaden my persective of current British topics.I'm glad it happened, Oscar. Actually, that is precisely what this thread is about, isn't it.

My post was referring to a topic and you took it personally - should I now apologize because you took it incorrectly? I don't think so. Nor do you need to apologize to me because even though your reply was in fact personal, it didn't hurt because I define myself by me and not what anyone else says to or about me. My validation is secure.

maybe the derailment could be split or something:-3

shelbell;1278646 wrote: OMG!!!!! seriously people??????????

Thank you so much to the few that have decided to derail this thread and make a mockery of it. And YES! That is said with sarcasm. :-5:-5:-5It's back on track, Shell.

BTW - your response to my earlier post was excellent.

kazalala;1278648 wrote: maybe the derailment could be split or something:-3


I doubt that could be done kaz...I think most of the thread would disappear. :wah:

shelbell;1278650 wrote: I doubt that could be done kaz...I think most of the thread would disappear. :wah:


oops maybe so ,, but whats left would be on topic and what you wanted out of the thread. well it was just an idea:)

Shellbelle,

I am so sad your attempt to find peace has turned to this.

abbey;1278659 wrote: Shellbelle,

I am so sad your attempt to find peace has turned to this. I disagree slightly there Abbs... I think the thread has provided some with the chance to air their grievences has been very benificial to some.

Maybe now we can all move on and begin a New year here together in harmony :-6:-6:-6