Are YOU down with the Clown?

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:14 pm

Peg wrote: Guess this means we should keep our children out of churches.I think that's a fabulous idea, too!

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:44 pm

I loved JAARBs growing up...I turned out okay.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:21 pm

hotsauce wrote: I loved JAARBs growing up...I turned out okay.
we better come to a consensus here.

Just Another Angry Rock Band or

Yet Another Angry Rock Band

?

they both roll off the tongue about equally well, jaarbs or yaarbs. hmmmm....

BabyRider · Post by **BabyRider** » Fri Apr 15, 2005 7:27 pm

"Yet" another angry rock band sounds too stuffy. "Just" is much better. IMO.

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Sat Apr 16, 2005 2:04 am

i think the problem is the music is quite aggressive and it can - not always - make the people listening to it behave in a way befitting the music, not necessarily do what the music says but just behave in a defensive you just dont understand way - i remember this from school

as for the bit about raping your first born - i was at a party about a year ago and there were some uni kids there (none of them juggalos!) however one of them came out with a line VERY similar to that and all it did was lead me to the conclusion that he was immature and unable to understand the meanings of what he was talking about. in the press over here recently it was reported a 5yr old had been raped at a sleep over and everyone was outraged by it quite naturally - so how come in the press thats the reaction but in the music you are allowed to speak so lightly of it??

do the juggalos AND other bands/people who say such things realise the severity of what they say? i think thats one of the main points perhaps??

no offence intended to ANYONE

koan · Post by **koan** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 8:45 am

I think it's pretty 'funny' how image bands come up with a plan to make a lot of money, create these songs that stir up controversy then piggyback on the bad press to sell more albums. The humour is that the kids who buy the music think that the band really believes what they are saying in the song when, in fact, they are preying on the kids' need to find an identity and all the band wants is to cash in on the loneliness of the sector of society with the most disposable income.

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:10 am

skittles2004 wrote: OK OK OK!!!!!!! here's a thought. I've asked a couple more people why they like ICP. Heres what one girl said" I don't like all there songs but some are pretty funny" yes, violence being considered funny. We are truly whacked!
and personally i think therein lies the problem............... one of them anyway!

violence is not funny but once people think it is why whats to stop them behaving like it? i mean its funny after all........

(and no im not pointing fingers at anyone

)

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:48 am

skittles2004 wrote: OK OK OK!!!!!!! here's a thought. I've asked a couple more people why they like ICP. Heres what one girl said" I don't like all there songs but some are pretty funny" yes, violence being considered funny. We are truly whacked!

lyrics describing violence != violence

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:35 pm

so if you think its disgusting why listen to it??

or have i missed something here?

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:18 pm

anastrophe wrote: geez, i'm shocked by all these responses. people are taking this seriously? music that teenagers listen to?

Yay! My first chance to go head to head with Anastrophe! Listen, Anny...this isn't a little Led Zepplin, Alice Cooper, or even Ozzy Osborne that we're talking about here. This band has more in common with Neo-Nazi Skinhead bands, and I KNOW you aren't going to stick up for them!

time for a big clue bat: listening to violent lyrics *does not* cause people to become violent.

Speak for yourself...when I listen to Rammstein, I drive faster, cut people off, and generally get into a really bad mood. Are you actually saying that music has no effect on emotions?!! Of course it does, a Mozart waltz can calm you and "Ride of the Valkries" can get your blood pumping.

Besides, there's always a Dylan Klebold (Columbine) that will take it seriously. Yes, he was already messed up, but there's always someone out there like him.

saying 'i'll rape your firstborn' is funny specifically because it is so completely, absurdely over the top, it falls back into itself. it's hilarious!

Isn't 36-year old David Lee Onstott, a registered sex offender, and murderer, being prosecuted for just that offense right now? He raped and killed first born 13-year old Sarah Michelle Lund. Now tell me again that this kind of thing never happens.

it's just what the doctor ordered for angst-ridden teens. i loved that kind of stuff when i was that age. it's the very ire that it provokes that kids love. "you shouldn't listen to that stuff it's bad/evil/violent/destructive" - is there anything you could say that would *more* encourage kids to then go listen to it??

What? So your argument is that we should back down and condone this? Why not condone teen smoking, too? And underage drinking, and casual teen sex, and teen pregnancy...these things are bad, and as responsible adults it's our job to say so. Maybe a few will listen! We can NEVER say that bad things are OK!

my god people, get a clue. this same thing has been going on since the 1950's. the establishment decries something - and it creates a feeding frenzy for youth who would do ANYTHING to separate themselves from the establishment. it's in the nature of being a teenager, no longer children, but not yet adults.

The difference, Anastrophe, is that in the 1950's growing long hair was the rebellion of choice. In the 21st century, when gang violence is prevalent, and teens have both the acess to and the will to use firearms, dismissing violent hate music seems to me something we would do at our own risk.

that is, correlation is not equal to causation. some kid listens to XYZ deathdestroyhate band, and then shoots up a school. so the music caused it?

Caused? No. Influenced? Yes. There is a fine line of sanity running through teens. Some only need a single negative influence to go off the deep end. Sure, they were unstable to begin with....but would they have gone ballistic without the extra negativity and hate-influence. No.

no! that kid is one kid out of ten million. think about it. one kid in ten million goes nutz and kills classmates.

That's one more than I'd like to see.

well, he was wearing nike shoes when he did the killing. ten million other kids wear nike shoes too. so the nike shoes caused him to kill?

Shoes do not correlate with emotion. Music does. Shoes do not send a message, music does. Shoes do not influence behavior, music does. Bad analogy.

of course, there isn't. and it's exactly the same with 'violent' music. for each of those kids who listens to a song and decides to rape someone, you have ten million other kids who listened to the song and....then had a stick of bubble gum.

It isn't the statistics that I'm objecting to. What I'm stating is that as adults, we have a responsibility to our children to protect them from negative influences. That's why the term "minor" was invented, they do not have the skills or the experience to make good judgements about what is good or bad for them. We must do it, it's our duty to them. To casually say, "Oh, they won't take this hate music seriously, or even if they do only one in ten million will kill anyone." is completely irresponsible to me.

Why not just as well say, "Only a few kids that try marijuana will get hook on heroin, so pot is no big deal." What about those who's lives go right down the drain? Can condoning any kind of drug abuse ever be good? No. and neither is condoning violent hate music.

john hinkley shot president reagan after watching martin scorcese's taxi driver. taxi driver is an incredibly violent movie. hinkley said he got the idea from the movie. so...the movie is to blame? then why haven't i tried to shoot the president, i've seen the movie a half dozen times? i'd wager well more than a hundred million people have watched taxi driver, and not one of them has emulated it. how do i know that? well, because there's only one john hinkley.

And one was enough. Are you stating that we should say that it's OK to shoot the President? No, I know what you are saying, why censor everyone, when only a few will go whacko and go on a killing spree?

My answer is this, I'm betting that if someone you love is one of the people killed in that killing spree, you views on hateful music and violent shows will be changed forever. I'd like to stop that from happening, not only to you and your loved ones, but to anyone.

jives, i also need to address your mention of the six year old that killed a kid after watching the power rangers. a six year old isn't a sixteen year old. furthermore, you have that one example.

One senseless death of a young child isn't enough for you? Just how many children will have to die, before you come over to my side and agree that anything that incites violence is a bad thing?

why is it there aren't more?

There are more, many more.

suggesting that they are on par with child molesters is really egregious. do you have some evidence that the band members engage in child molestation? you demean the *true* horror of child molestation to suggest that they are in the same class of people.

And I'll stand by that statement. To my mind there is little difference. Both categories of people take advantage of the young. Both know that what they are doing is wrong, and still cause mayhem and violence among the children. Both have no conscience. Both enjoy doing evil.

A child molester destroys children a few at a time. ICP sells their blatant hate message wholesale, not only saddening and depressing the youth of today, but also subverting and sabotaging the families of tomorrow....if anything they are worse than child molesters, if only for the sheer numbers affected.

the band's lyrics are a bunch of over the top stuff that teens love. .

Over the top? No, much, much more than that. Across the line. Across the line of decency. Across the line of civilty. Across the line of anything that can be tolerated by a society. I consider this band evil of the worse kind, devious and powerful. Iit's message of evil is popular for exactly the same reason Hitler was popular...it appeals to what is worst in human nature.

You stick up for it if you want. As for me, I intend to fight for the good. I will never turn my back and dismiss this terrible assault on children. I refuse to laugh it off and turn my back. I intend to challenge this "Dark Circus" at every opportunity. I will work, pray, cajole, prod, preach, and hope for a future when this kind of insidious evil is a thing of the past .....

As do all people that love life and hate evil. :-6

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:28 pm

anastrophe wrote: i'll note for the record, i've never heard ICP, never knew what juggalos were before this, have no particular interest in it. it's just YAARB - yet another angry rock band.

Wrong again, Anny! this band has about as much in common with the Rolling Stones as a goldfish has with a pirahna.

hey, the establishment condemned The Who, The Rolling Stones, Metallica, blah blah blah. same as it ever was.

No....not the same. Did the Stones ever sing about randomly killing people? No. Does Metallica endorse rape? No. Did The Who ever shout about their generation choking babies? No. This band is in a whole other league.

the more ire you raise about it, the more kids will want it. smoking is bad for you - that makes it cool!

So what's cool about dying Anastrophe? I missed that part while I was attending my father's funeral. He died from emphysema, caused by smoking. My wife is dying from smoking and my son will most likely die from it in the future. My whole family wiped out by something people like you think is "cool". All of them started smoking for exactly the reasons that this band is cool. And it will eventually cost them all their lives.

Drugs, smoking, gangs, drunk drivers,.....and hate music. They all fall into my category of "ignore at your own risk."

I'm saying straight out at you that I know more about this than you do. Your attitude is immature and irresponsible at best and deadly at worst.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 4:46 pm

Jives wrote: Yay! My first chance to go head to head with Anastrophe! Listen, Anny...this isn't a little Led Zepplin, Alice Cooper, or even Ozzy Osborne that we're talking about here. This band has more in common with Neo-Nazi Skinhead bands, and I KNOW you aren't going to stick up for them!i saw the Dead Kennedies play years ago. admittedly, one of their signature tunes was "Nazi Punks, **** Off!". but it was absolute thrash, grinding, pounding stuff. The Clash. The Sex Pistols (lots of violence in sex pistols - 1977!) i've heard all manner of hateful/hate-filled music. i've also seen TV evangelists preaching hate, and then there's people like the former FG member bullet talking about beating the **** out of someone for being gay. *words* about violence are not violence.

Speak for yourself...when I listen to Rammstein, I drive faster, cut people off, and generally get into a really bad mood. Are you actually saying that music has no effect on emotions?!! Of course it does, a Mozart waltz can calm you and "Ride of the Valkries" can get your blood pumping.
i'm certainly not saying that music has no effect on emotions. however, i am saying, that someone who would commit murder, rape, child molestation, whatever - they are *not* going to be impelled to commit those acts due to listening to the music *if they were not already predisposed to true violence*.

yes, i know about driving faster, cutting people off in traffic. that's all dandy. cutting someone off in traffic != cutting out someone's heart with a chainsaw.

this should not be a difficult concept to understand. certainly we are influenced by music. you could subject me to the most violent, hateful, grotesque music for 24 consecutive hours, strapped in a chair, and you know what? when it's done, i might be in an utterly foul and mean mood, but i am not going to go kill someone. the leap from anger/cutting people off/bad mood to taking a human life is one so massive that it will not happen unless one was already predisposed to it. but i'm repeating myself.

Besides, there's always a Dylan Klebold (Columbine) that will take it seriously. Yes, he was already messed up, but there's always someone out there like him.
yes, there is. and there will always be someone out there who will watch a video of hitler and decide he wants to kill the jews, gays, and gypsies too. unless you want to utterly sterilize the world in order to make us 100% safe from the insane, there is *nothing that can be done about it*. it will happen regardless of the 'trigger'. the 'trigger' is merely a convenient place to point, other than the culpable individual.

Isn't 36-year old David Lee Onstott, a registered sex offender, and murderer, being prosecuted for just that offense right now? He raped and killed first born 13-year old Sarah Michelle Lund. Now tell me again that this kind of thing never happens.
am i to understand that he uttered the words "rape and kill", that somehow those words magically manifested in reality as sarah michelle lund being raped and killed? or did david lee onstott commit those actions of his own volition? the culpable party is david lee onstott. a kid yelling "i'm going to rape your first born" is not in fact raping your firtborn. he is simply getting attention. works every time, apparently.

What? So your argument is that we should back down and condone this? Why not condone teen smoking, too? And underage drinking, and casual teen sex, and teen pregnancy...these things are bad, and as responsible adults it's our job to say so. Maybe a few will listen! We can NEVER say that bad things are OK!
no, i'm saying that the music is not the activity. someone listens to a song about casual teen sex - have they then by that act committed casual teen sex? no. a song about it, and actually doing it, are two different things. if a kid decides 'hey, xyz talked about casual sex, i think i'll do it', then does it - then that means he or she has typical 'absent parents', who haven't properly raised their kid - it does not mean that xyz caused that kid to have casual sex.

The difference, Anastrophe, is that in the 1950's growing long hair was the rebellion of choice. In the 21st century, when gang violence is prevalent, and teens have both the acess to and the will to use firearms, dismissing violent hate music seems to me something we would do at our own risk.
teens had far greater access to firearms in the 1950's than they do today. a typical high school would have marksmanship classes, and the kids would carry their rifle to and from school.

there were plenty of violent gangs in the 1950's. west side story was a cute romp about a real problem back then. things are no different now.

Caused? No. Influenced? Yes. There is a fine line of sanity running through teens. Some only need a single negative influence to go off the deep end. Sure, they were unstable to begin with....but would they have gone ballistic without the extra negativity and hate-influence. No.
again, the question is, is the music capable of influencing a kid beyond that he/she was already capable of? i don't think it is. i was about as screwed up as they come when i was a teenager. i'm practically as screwed up now! but listening to the sex pistols never 'pushed me over the edge'. there will always be a proportion of kids who are on the edge. far more likely to put them over the edge is the jock who (violently) shoves the fat kid around, not a song about hating fat kids.

Shoes do not correlate with emotion. Music does. Shoes do not send a message, music does. Shoes do not influence behavior, music does. Bad analogy.
uh, this day and age, shoes don't send a message? wrong. the cool kids gotta have nikes or adidas. or whatever. it's a whole statement. when's the last time you saw a high school jock wearing birkenstocks?

the point of the analogy is that there are a million correlates one can find ex post facto. stating that a particular correlate was responsible is dandy, but it is not explicitly correct unless you examine the individual circumstance. dylan/kleibold didn't shoot up their high school due to listening to bad music. they shot up their high school after relentless humiliation and violence against them by jocks and others. and clearly, it was a 'sum is greater than the parts' formula when those two misfits came together. and of course - absentee parents who were utterly unaware of how truly screwed up their kids were.

It isn't the statistics that I'm objecting to. What I'm stating is that as adults, we have a responsibility to our children to protect them from negative influences. That's why the term "minor" was invented, they do not have the skills or the experience to make good judgements about what is good or bad for them. We must do it, it's our duty to them. To casually say, "Oh, they won't take this hate music seriously, or even if they do only one in ten million will kill anyone." is completely irresponsible to me.
fair enough. my argument is, the more you get your dander up about it, the more it tweaks the teens innate sensitivity to 'hey, this really bugs that old guy, let's do it some more!'. i believe you make the problem worse by stating just how bad you think it is.

Why not just as well say, "Only a few kids that try marijuana will get hook on heroin, so pot is no big deal." What about those who's lives go right down the drain? Can condoning any kind of drug abuse ever be good? No. and neither is condoning violent hate music.
well, you're talking to the wrong guy about drug abuse. while i do believe that those under legal age should not be legally allowed to use mind alterants, i'm against most drug laws. and the fact is, whether we say it's bad or not, some proportionof kids are going to do it anyway - sometimes they'll do it specifically *because* we tell them it's bad.

i tried pot and lots of other drugs as a young teenager. pot doesn't lead to heroin, no matter what anyone says - heroin is the only one i never got a chance to try! was i too young to make informed decisions about using those drugs? of course. but that didn't stop me. i was a rebellious teen. it's right there in the Rebellious Teen Contract - act out, do stupid things, get into trouble.

And one was enough. Are you stating that we should say that it's OK to shoot the President? No, I know what you are saying, why censor everyone, when only a few will go whacko and go on a killing spree?

My answer is this, I'm betting that if someone you love is one of the people killed in that killing spree, you views on hateful music and violent shows will be changed forever. I'd like to stop that from happening, not only to you and your loved ones, but to anyone.
well, i can't say what i'd feel if one of my loved ones were killed, but i believe i'd blame the mother****er who killed them, not music, or the gun, or society. i'm utterly sick of the blame game we have - 'xyz caused me to do it, i'm not responsible!'. well, screw that. what if the person who kills my loved one was listening to copacabana by barry manilow right before he killed them?

One senseless death of a young child isn't enough for you? Just how many children will have to die, before you come over to my side and agree that anything that incites violence is a bad thing?
then we need to ban "America's Funniest Home Videos". that show is a tutorial in finding people getting hurt to be funny, and various ways to commit violence.

obviously, things that incite *real* violence are bad. my argument is that violent music is not going to incite someone to *real* violence unless they were already predisposed to do so, whether listening to The Clown, or listening to Wagner.

And I'll stand by that statement. To my mind there is little difference. Both categories of people take advantage of the young. Both know that what they are doing is wrong, and still cause mayhem and violence among the children. Both have no conscience. Both enjoy doing evil.

A child molester destroys children a few at a time. ICP sells their blatant hate message wholesale, not only saddening and depressing the youth of today, but also subverting and sabotaging the families of tomorrow....if anything they are worse than child molesters, if only for the sheer numbers affected.
well, we'll have to part ways. the two things are so far distant from each other that it demeans the gravity of the one (child molestation) to compare it to the other (loud, angry, music).

forgive me, but there's no other way to approach it. are you saying that someone up on a stage, singing the words "axe blood kill" whatever, is equivalent to an adult male breaking into your home, entering your daughter's room while you sleep, holding his hand over her mouth, penetrating her vagina and anus with his fingers, beating her in the head to make her dazed, then forcing her to orally copulate him, all the while fondling her breasts? singing "axe blood kill" is equivalent to that *real* horror?

we'll never find common ground with that basis. the one is disturbing lyrics and sounds. the other is a vicious violation of an innocent human being. you would be legally justified in putting a bullet in that molesters head if you caught him in the act. you would be carted to jail as a murderer if you shot the lead singer of the ICF (or whatever they're called) because he was singing those lyrics, which you find equivalent to the actions of a child molester.

Over the top? No, much, much more than that. Across the line. Across the line of decency. Across the line of civilty. Across the line of anything that can be tolerated by a society. I consider this band evil of the worse kind, devious and powerful. Iit's message of evil is popular for exactly the same reason Hitler was popular...it appeals to what is worst in human nature.

sure. ever seen Fear Factor? the message is evil, and appeals to the worst in human nature. ever visited http://www.rotten.com ? the message is evil, and it appeals to the worst in human nature. ever watched slo-mo of a nascar car wreck shown during the sports segment? well, not so sure about evil, but it clearly appeals to the worst in human nature.

ban the actual evil behavior, not songs or images of it.

You stick up for it if you want. As for me, I intend to fight for the good. I will never turn my back and dismiss this terrible assault on children. I refuse to laugh it off and turn my back. I intend to challenge this "Dark Circus" at every opportunity. I will work, pray, cajole, prod, preach, and hope for a future when this kind of insidious evil is a thing of the past .....
okay. the evil is the actual child molester. a group of chowderheads singing over the top lyrics is not the evil. in my opinion. work to keep *actual child molesters behind bars*, not prevent kids from hearing stuff that sounds icky.

As do all people that love life and hate evil. :-6
where we differ is the definition of evil. depictions of evil are not evil, in my opinion.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:09 pm

Jives wrote: Wrong again, Anny! this band has about as much in common with the Rolling Stones as a goldfish has with a pirahna.
okay, the Sex Pistols.

the fact is, bill haley and the comets was considered subversive and harmful to youth in its day. churches held record burnings.

No....not the same. Did the Stones ever sing about randomly killing people? No. Does Metallica endorse rape? No. Did The Who ever shout about their generation choking babies? No. This band is in a whole other league.

lots of other bands have whipped up songs about stuff like this. remember marilyn manson? maybe the stones and metallica aren't as over the top, but it's all evil depending upon who you ask.

So what's cool about dying Anastrophe? I missed that part while I was attending my father's funeral. He died from emphysema, caused by smoking. My wife is dying from smoking and my son will most likely die from it in the future. My whole family wiped out by something people like you think is "cool". All of them started smoking for exactly the reasons that this band is cool. And it will eventually cost them all their lives.
you're misunderstanding what i'm saying. i'm not saying smoking is cool. i'm saying that teenagers think smoking is cool because 'uptight, establishment dudes like jives get their panties in a bunch about it'. it's the very fact that it's bad for them that attracts them to it.

i'm sorry about your father, and your wife. my father smoked two packs of Chesterfields a day from when he got hooked on them in world war II, until he quit about 1973. never smoked again after that. but he did die of lung cancer a couple of years ago. no way of ever knowing if the cigarettes did it, but probably. i tried smoking myself back in my early twenties. being rebellious. funny, i had tried marijuana, lsd, 'shrooms, DMT, etc, as a teen - but didn't feel that "i'm doing something bad" until i lit up my first Camel unfiltered!

Drugs, smoking, gangs, drunk drivers,.....and hate music. They all fall into my category of "ignore at your own risk."

the first four are significant problems. the last is not in the same league in my opinion.

I'm saying straight out at you that I know more about this than you do. Your attitude is immature and irresponsible at best and deadly at worst.
my attitude is explicitly not deadly. i've never killed anyone, never will (unless they try to kill me), and my attitude at worst is "focus on the actual violence, not words about violence". you'll accomplish a lot more.

telaquapacky · Post by **telaquapacky** » Mon Apr 18, 2005 5:40 pm

Peg wrote: More people have killed in the name of religion than a song, a video game, a movie, etc. Guess this means we should keep our children out of churches.Nope. Look for a better church and listen to better music.

Music definitely has an effect. For awhile, when I lived in Berkeley, local merchants got in the unfortunate habit of letting their young employees listen to any kind of music in the shop that they wanted. As a result, the quality of service and the level of rudeness became so bad that everyone complained, and there were editorials in the newspapers. I ordered a garlic pizza and got a pizza onto which someone had dumped a whole jar of rancid, spoiled garlic. They wouldn't take it back. (punk music blasting on the P.A.) The people at a video rental place farther down Telegraph wanted to charge $400 on my credit card for a deposit (same background music).

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 3:05 am

skittles2004 wrote: It's disgusting to consider violence funny. what have we come to!kinda my point

if you think its so wrong and disgusting to consider violence funny then dont you think its wrong that people who listen to these kinda lyrics find it funny??

therefore dont you disagree with these kind of bands being publicised and children listening to their songs??

the next generation of adults growing up who will decide what happens to world are by the admission of whoever you asked finding lyrics like that funny...... and the morals of the world are where??.......!

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Tue Apr 19, 2005 7:22 am

skittles2004 wrote: I don't know why I like ICP maybe somehow I'm twisted for liking them. I just happen to like them.
im honestly not trying to suggest that you are

but if thats the conclusion you come to of your own accord then what about all the 'hardcore' ICP fans?? are they the really twisted ones? in which case they are as i said the future generation of adults who will lead and run this world......

ill put money on it im not that much older than you either btw so im not some oldy going on and on and on and on! - but a lady never tells her age

buttercup · Post by **buttercup** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:37 pm

oh boy this one has stirred up some emotions

everyone chill a bit, our personalities are formed at age 5

you know the saying 'show me the child i will show you the man?'

i personally was a fan of the sex pistols, ozzy ozbourne & recently marilyn manson, hasent done me a bit of harm, im one of the most laid back people you will ever meet, it would be a totally boring world if nothing contriversial ever happened, i wouldent say i was hardcore or a stoner im just a mom of three teenage girls who is aware of what is going on, when raising children yes be aware but understanding as well, they will rebel, its natural

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 1:42 pm

skittles2004 wrote: I thought standing up for Juggalo's was a good idea. not so much now. I mean once you bring out "raping a baby" that's when i knew i was screwed. maybe Jives is right. To be honest most of hardcore fans tend to be stoners. I'm not hardcore.
do you like the juggalos? yes? do you commit murder, mayhem, rape, child molestation after listening to them? no?

then there's no reason for you not to stand up for them.

jives is wrong.:yh_wink :yh_bigsmi

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:28 pm

Keep your innocence, Skittles. Keep the good and the sunshine in your life, stay away from the dark and the evil.

You'll feel better, really!

Jives is right!:D

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:31 pm

How old are you Buttercup? (If I may be so bold!)

I propose that this kind of insanely violent influence is aimed at, and worse for younger minds.

You seem older, well-adjusted, and mature. Do you have a good support system? Some of these young fans don't. No safety net to tell them, "It's just music." They take this stuff seriously.

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:52 pm

Jives wrote: Keep your innocence, Skittles. Keep the good and the sunshine in your life, stay away from the dark and the evil.

You'll feel better, really!

Jives is right!:D
sez you!!!

:p

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:56 pm

It has'nt gone unnoticed that Mr Juggalo, "Don't take crap from anybody" has'nt voted in his own poll! :wah:

half n' half · Post by **half n' half** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 7:11 pm

Ha! Insane Clown Posse! That band is not only evil and disturbing, they kinda suck. Even though im not a Nu-metal fan, Slipknot is so much better. But if ur into hardcore or all other types of metal, check these guys out:

Demon Hunter

As I Lay Dying

Killswitch Engage

Ill Nino

Sepultura

Soulfly

Lamb of God (heh, dont expect these guys to be Christian)

koan · Post by **koan** » Fri Apr 22, 2005 8:38 pm

very bored and alone wrote: anyone here like Britney Spears? :wah:

I think I liked her better before she started singing. Of course I didn't know of her then...that could be why. :yh_giggle

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:02 am

Well said, Skittles. And you're right, Anastrophe and I were discussing the negative (or positive) impact of music on younger people.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:06 am

EastSid3H0znMony wrote: yeah im down wit da clown everyone under that mutha****in label is fresh........................................................... MMCL 2 all yall JUGGALOZ AND JUGGALETTEZ

Look everybody! A WEED in the Garden! Bad weed! Bad! Bad!

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:10 am

Jives wrote: Well said, Skittles. And you're right, Anastrophe and I were discussing the negative (or positive) impact of music on younger people.
true enough, although the pendantic moi would say that i wasn't arguing any positive aspect of them, more a zero sum outcome.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:14 am

anastrophe wrote: true enough, although the pendantic moi would say that i wasn't arguing any positive aspect of them, more a zero sum outcome.

I agree, I argued that this kind of derogatory programming damages young impressionable minds...Anastrophe was arguing that is doesn't affect them at all.

If I'm right, society will be destroyed, if he's right, nothing will happen. Let's hope he's right.

mominiowa · Post by **mominiowa** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:30 pm

The band Slipknot was mentioned earlier........

My daughter is 12~ her friends mother called me Sunday - stating they had an extra ticket to take another friend along - and Elly thought my daughter would LOVE To go...I said -well, I will check it out and let you know.. I asked Shelby and she says "Ohhh mom that would be so cool, but I never thought you would let me go..."

- At that point..this mom said hmmmmmmm - I best be checkin this out.. I went to the net and HOLY SH*T - No No No No No.....I went down stairs demanded all her music on the bed-- sorted through it and then called this friends mom back and asked her if she still was going to our church and she said well yes WHY? - I said ohhhhh honey - I am really thinking u need to listen to this before you go to this concert...

I never heard anymore and am awaiting a very mad little girl to come home from school so we can have a nice long talk...The concert was last night and I am dying to know if her friends went...cuz there was no way in hell my daughter was attending that....and I have in my custody several CD's that my daughter has burned at freinds houses that will be BURNT in the trash..What is going on in thier heads now days? - I pray that my daughter is being rasied well in both houses - my X's and my own - and that we are raising our children with good beleifs and strong values NOT ENIEM or however u spell it!!!!!!!! BLAHHHHH - I really have some work to do...(forgive the errors, I was typing fast)

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 3:57 pm

mominiowa wrote: The band Slipknot was mentioned earlier........

One of the only bands I consider worse than ICP.

I asked Shelby and she says "Ohhh mom that would be so cool, but I never thought you would let me go..."

yep! Because she understands that you would protect her from negative influences like this band.

- At that point..this mom said hmmmmmmm - I best be checkin this out..

Go MOM! Now that's a responsible parent.

I went to the net and HOLY SH*T - No No No No No.....I went down stairs demanded all her music on the bed-- sorted through it and then called this friends mom back and asked her if she still was going to our church and she said well yes WHY? - I said ohhhhh honey - I am really thinking u need to listen to this before you go to this concert...

Absolutely outstanding! These bands target the youth because they know that they are impressionable and innocent. Adults know way too much to ever fall under the sway of such filth.

If adults band together like you did MominIowa, they won't have a market anymore. it's what I was talking about to Scrat when I said, "If you don't like something, do something about it."

I never heard anymore and am awaiting a very mad little girl to come home from school so we can have a nice long talk...

And see? What most parents don't understand, but you obvously do, is that you can't be your daughter's best friend all the time, occasionally you have to be the PARENT!

...and I have in my custody several CD's that my daughter has burned at freinds houses that will be BURNT in the trash.

Better to put your foot down now, and show her you love and care for her, than to have to bail her out of jail later. i once saw two girls in my class talking. One was complaining that her mom kept making her call home, talking to her friends, and getting involved in her. life. The poor girl next to her replied with a downcast expression, "My mother doesn't care what I do."

That made the other girl think I can tell you! When a parent gets involved, the message is , "I care about you, you are my child."

What is going on in thier heads now days?

Whatever can be programmed in by violent movies, television, music and negative peers. Their only defense is adults like you and myself.

- I pray that my daughter is being rasied well in both houses - my X's and my own - and that we are raising our children with good beleifs and strong values NOT ENIEM or however u spell it!!!!!!!! BLAHHHHH - I really have some work to do...(forgive the errors, I was typing fast)

That's the problem, isn't it. No matter how much we tell them this stuff is bad for them, a thousand other influences are calling us liars. (Anastrophe) but that's OK, if they know we care about them and have their best interests at heart, they'll still come around...like Skittles!!!:D

Good will NEVER give in to the forces of Evil!