Child Suicides

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:35 pm

I have read this thread and because i am involved with kids that have mental problems..i agree..alot of kids are drugged to make life easier for their parents, the schools..and society..and the real issues bothering the child are never worked through..on the other hand there are children who are so out of control emotionally and or mentally that they benefit from drug therapy...personally i feel like most children diagnosed with problems should and would benefit from therapy..not only the child but their whole family.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:39 pm

I personally know of a boy who is sixteen..diagnosed as bipolar , takes his meds..attends therapy and attempted suicide six months ago..

and i know of a seventeen year old girl who attempted and succeeded suicide a few days ago in another town away..she was never diagnosed with any disorder and was not taking any meds..her parents are devistated..in appearances she had it all..but nobody knows exactly how her family really functioned and or what was going through her head when she killed herself..

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:15 pm

Teens have killed themselves with or without psycho pharmaceuticals.

But look at the drugs being prescribed.

Brand Name: Adderall

Benzedrine

Concerta

Cylert (now removed

from the market)

Daytrana (skin patch)

Deaner

Desoxyn

Dexedrine

Focalin

Metadate

Methylin

Provigil

Ritalin

Sparlon

Side Effects:Abdominal pain

Aggression

Angina (sudden acute

pain)

Anorexia

Blood pressure and

pulse changes

Blurred vision

Depression

Dizziness

Drowsiness

Dry mouth

Fever

Hallucinations

Headaches

Heart palpitations

Hypersensitivity

Increased irritability

Insomnia

Involuntary tics and

twitching called

Tourette’s Syndrome

Liver problems

Loss of appetite

Mental/mood changes

Moodiness

Nausea

Nervousness

Psychosis

Restlessness

Seizures

Stomach pain

Stunted growth

Suicidal thoughts

Tachycardia (heart

irregularity)

Toxic psychosis

Unusual weakness or

tiredness

Violent behavior

Vomiting

Weight loss

“Zombie demeanor

Doesn't this increase the chances of abhorrent behavior?

Let me add.

In children, stimulants appear to act like suppressants but psychiatrists and doctors have no idea why. A 1999 study published in Science Journal, determined: “The mechanism by which psychostimulants act as calming agents¦is currently unknown.

Source

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 7:42 pm

I tried to help a 17 year old who was on so many drugs she was lactating and breaking out in hives. The only problem the doctors had was that they didn't know what to prescribe to stop the lactation.

I sat at a table with her main psychiatrist and he couldn't tell me why she was on all the medication. Her mother told them openly that the girl was allergic to one of the meds and the doctor couldn't say why they were continuing to give it to her. Apparently she was bipolar and ADD with shizophrenic tendencies.

Both her parents took medication for a variety of illnesses from bipolar to schizophrenic and I, to this day, believe she didn't need any of those pills. Anyone heard of learned behaviour. I suspect it played a role in this case.

I'd like to add another factor in here. Teenage girls are being given shots of depo provera through free clinics and it is hideously destructive. Severe depression, obesity, endless bleeding or the expected effect of no periods at all. Doctors actually use that as a 'selling point'. Hey, isn't it wonderful that we can deform your body so you don't bleed anymore? Depo Provera is one of my sore points but it is also responsible for some child suicides.

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:01 pm

I had my son diagnosed with ADHD in the 2nd grade and the doctor put him on ridalyn (or however you spel it) I took him off it within 2 weeks and then took sugar out of his diet and stopped feeding him a lot of carbs and I had a different type of child. I also ended up pulling him out of the public school system because they were upset with me for not drugging him and he was failing due to his "active-ness" I home-schooled him for 2 years and then put him back in the SAME elem. school and he was on the honor roll for that year!

That same kid is going to be graduating from High school this year and he is a bright, responsible young adult. Yes, he still has his fits of anger, and there are some things he has to try to control about himself, and he is always conscious of what he is eating.....and knows when he needs to use discipline for his own good. I am very proud of him.....and VERY thankful I read similar information that JD posted when he was little....

koan · Post by **koan** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:04 pm

they wanted to declare my daughter as clinically depressed because her father had it and, after losing her best friend at school over a falling out, she was showing unhappiness. :p

It was a case of natural behaviour. She is now an A student and that teacher can kiss my lovely ass.

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:30 pm

:-6

Now there be some facts.

Wendy.

:-4

G-man · Post by **G-man** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:42 pm

koan;722043 wrote: they wanted to declare my daughter as clinically depressed because her father had it and, after losing her best friend at school over a falling out, she was showing unhappiness. :p

It was a case of natural behaviour. She is now an A student and that teacher can kiss my lovely ass.

I can verify that last comment in that last sentence... her ass is very lovely, just sayin'

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 8:48 pm

G-man;722054 wrote: I can verify that last comment in that last sentence... her ass is very lovely, just sayin'

Yes. I'm sure.

Thank you G,

:yh_rotfl

WonderWendy3 · Post by **WonderWendy3** » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:34 pm

G-man;722054 wrote: I can verify that last comment in that last sentence... her ass is very lovely, just sayin'

Down boy, down............

:wah::wah:

Not in front of the kids!:D

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:25 am

Oh ... where do I start here. I just wanted to say I have not forgot this thread, and have been watching it build. There are some valid points and observations here, I just need to gather my thoughts and brace my self for my probable 'long winded' reply :-5

I'll be back - as Arnie would say :wah: :-4

Crazy days, full of running here, there and everywhere

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:26 am

I have some questions/observations .....

If nutrition alone is responsible, and a baby is obviously showing very early sign of problems (prior to solid foods being given), are you saying therefore that the mother ate the wrong foods during pregnancy, or during breast feeding?

If we accept that adults can suffer from depression, at what stage does this adult problem 'kick in'? So it cannot exist in children, but at say 18, the switch is suddenly thrown?

I agree that there are many parents out there who have their kids on medication due to a few difficulties, I can name quite a few examples myself where this has been done. Does this mean though that thats true of all cases?

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 11:27 am

ThePheasant;722204 wrote: I have some questions/observations .....

If nutrition alone is responsible, and a baby is obviously showing very early sign of problems (prior to solid foods being given), are you saying therefore that the mother ate the wrong foods during pregnancy, or during breast feeding?

If we accept that adults can suffer from depression, at what stage does this adult problem 'kick in'? So it cannot exist in children, but at say 18, the switch is suddenly thrown?

I agree that there are many parents out there who have their kids on medication due to a few difficulties, I can name quite a few examples myself where this has been done. Does this mean though that thats true of all cases?

I'll ask the doctors on Wednesday but I believe that the mothers diet is responsible for childhood problems. My issue with that question is what freak is diagnosing babies for mental illness? I know they are but WTF?

An adult can have problems at any time. There is no particular age or switch.

Sure there are cases where a child is so out of hand that drugging is necessary but why then does therapy not accompany the prescription?

The drugs mask the symptoms but the problem does not magically disappear! Those doctors that prescribe the cocktails and pat the kid on the head and say goodbye should have their liscences revoked.

Now that is exactly the issue at hand. It's not true in all cases but more and more doctors just write the prescriptions for the payout from the pharmaceutical companies. The criteria for diagnosing a child for a mental disorder is non-existent. They can give your kid drugs if he can't pronounce encyclopedia properly.

koan · Post by **koan** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:34 pm

My take on the situation...

There is no one type of person. A health diet that gives one person vitality may leave another weak. Food contains natural medicines, diet can be used therapeutically to correct imbalances that are either caused by an environment or a result of ingesting harmful foods earlier in life.

Some people believe your blood type affects which foods will make you thrive or harm you, others have complex systems like the Chinese "hot cold wet dry" assessment of all the organs.

Anyone with a candida problem will benefit from the established diet to fight yeast imbalance but each person will then have different adaptations that can improve their healing time based on other factors. It would be so much easier if we could just say 'this is your label and this is your cure' but it doesn't exactly work that way. The thing that makes me wary is that doctors act like they know what they are doing whether they do or not. Some doctors are incredibly good and some barely graduated. Having a degree doesn't mean they are always right.

Chezzie · Post by **Chezzie** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:38 pm

koan;722278 wrote: My take on the situation...

There is no one type of person. A health diet that gives one person vitality may leave another weak. Food contains natural medicines, diet can be used therapeutically to correct imbalances that are either caused by an environment or a result of ingesting harmful foods earlier in life.

Some people believe your blood type affects which foods will make you thrive or harm you, others have complex systems like the Chinese "hot cold wet dry" assessment of all the organs.

Anyone with a candida problem will benefit from the established diet to fight yeast imbalance but each person will then have different adaptations that can improve their healing time based on other factors. It would be so much easier if we could just say 'this is your label and this is your cure' but it doesn't exactly work that way. The thing that makes me wary is that doctors act like they know what they are doing whether they do or not. Some doctors are incredibly good and some barely graduated. Having a degree doesn't mean they are always right.

Amen to that Koan, I work in the NHS and see it first hand. also seen some dreadful misdiagnosis and worse ignorance on ailments.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 12:47 pm

ThePheasant;722204 wrote: I have some questions/observations .....

If nutrition alone is responsible, and a baby is obviously showing very early sign of problems (prior to solid foods being given), are you saying therefore that the mother ate the wrong foods during pregnancy, or during breast feeding?

If we accept that adults can suffer from depression, at what stage does this adult problem 'kick in'? So it cannot exist in children, but at say 18, the switch is suddenly thrown?

I agree that there are many parents out there who have their kids on medication due to a few difficulties, I can name quite a few examples myself where this has been done. Does this mean though that thats true of all cases?

Too much of this discussion has been seen in terms of black and white. The assumption is repeatedly made that there is a single cause and that, therefore, a single cure will work in all cases.

Real life and real illness, especially mental illness, is not like that and a wonder cure that is the perfect solution for half the population will make no difference or even worsen the condition of the other half.

I have to say, from my position of ignorance (never having experienced mental illness), that drugs should never be the first recourse but should only be used if therapy or diet, or anything else that can be shown to work on a worthwhile number of patients, has been tried.

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:14 pm

02/August/1997 "Sunday Telegraph", London, U.K.

Test Offers Cure for Violent Children

by Victoria Macdonald, Health Correspondent

(With reference to Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder information)

CHILDREN who are aggressive, violent and disruptive at home and school are showing marked improvements after taking a simple £11 laboratory test that can show they are suffering from a chemical imbalance.

The urine test detects kryptopyrrole, a by-product of pyroluria, which means the body is depleted of zinc and vitamin B6. These are needed to control mood and behaviour.

By identifying the condition, children are able to be given supplements to correct the metabolic imbalance.

Source

We think that it is a direct result of exposure to heavy metal toxins such as cadmium and lead which prevent the absorption of zinc.

Now that I find very interesting. Over the decades we have consumed more and more heavy metal toxins due to poor quality water supplies and canned foods and drinks.

It's quite possible that a mother would share this toxicity with the child in her womb much like an addict shares their drugs with the baby.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:30 pm

Wow, it's taken ages to get through this thread, lots of mixed emotions for me.

My son has high achieving aspergers, was diagnosed about a year ago. The apointment before he was diagnosed I was offered a prescription for ritalin. I refused it initially as I wanted to research it, I was also there alone with my son, his father needed a say in this, it wasn't up to just me.

I researched ritalin it and got my brother to research it too, for me it just didn't sit right to start giving my son drugs. What also worried me is that he was nine years old, looking at the research I discovered that the doses had to keep being raised and it scared me to wonder what sort of cocktail he would be on by the time he was sixteen.

Someone define hyperactive for me, I've come accross children who can't sit still, and I guess I think of hyperactive children as those who bounce off the walls and are full of endless energy.

My son is always fidgeting, hands clapping, jumping up and down etc but I don't consider him hyperactive, he certainly doesn't have boundless energy he's actually quite lethargic. I wonder if that could be put down to his poor co-ordination and muscle tone. When we used to see a physiotherapist she was amazed that he could walk at all due to his poor muscle tone.

Pheasy you say your son never slept, certainly as a baby my son had no problem sleeping, but now he takes forever to go to sleep and is up early every day. He's tired a lot and school are forever complaining.

For the last 24 hours I've been upset and wondering, wondering whats going to happen, I know the feeling will pass, but right now I'm fed up with repeating myself over and over from seven in the morning until he goes to sleep. Fed up with standing over him to keep him on task for any thing from getting dressed, to eating his tea, to doing his writing. He's ten, how long? And then the guilt kicks in, he's my son. I asked him tonight when is he going to be a little bit independant, when will he ever just get dressed because it's morning and it's a school day, put his shoes on when I say we're going out, put his coat on without being prompted, take it off again without me having to tell him, his answer was 'when you die I guess Mum'

Sorry I've gone off track there, I guess I will always try other things before drugs, but its so hard and demoralising sometimes.

MisterHyde · Post by **MisterHyde** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:38 pm

As someone with higher functioning Autism (Dyspraxia with Asperger's tendencies) I'm not sure that the problems with your son will go away. I get the "when are you going to learn..." speech a lot at work, and often I feel like saying what your son said as a reply.

It's not that we don't want to improve, it's that there is some block from stopping us improve. It took me 6 months of physiotherapy to learn how to catch a ball. And I still can't kick one!

drumbunny1 · Post by **drumbunny1** » Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:18 pm

I'm a certified Preschool teacher and have been teaching for about 4 years now....I agree to an extent that drugs are not the only answer....I had this little girl we'll just call "Sadie" last year...4 years old and it was the saddest thing because she was on this...off this...back on this...double this dose!!! Shes 4 for crying out loud!!! Well my director who was friends with the mother convinced her to take Sadie off the drugs and give her old fashioned time outs....it worked! The little girls behavior improved DRAMATICALLY! I do agree that some children can have psychiatric problems.....but I also think that the Media has a whole lot to do with school shootings and child suicides...also the parenting...its just so sad because these parents are being told that "Oh your kid's hyper? They need Ritalin!" What kid isn't hyper?! So I'm not totally saying psychiatric drugs are useless or wrong to use...I just think people are too quick to jump on the bandwagon...like I said...I blame the media!

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:53 am

MisterHyde;722461 wrote: As someone with higher functioning Autism (Dyspraxia with Asperger's tendencies) I'm not sure that the problems with your son will go away. I get the "when are you going to learn..." speech a lot at work, and often I feel like saying what your son said as a reply.

It's not that we don't want to improve, it's that there is some block from stopping us improve. It took me 6 months of physiotherapy to learn how to catch a ball. And I still can't kick one!

Knowing (seeing first hand) the effects these illnesses can have - I am sure that your example of not being able to catch a ball is one of the many problems you experience. It is however a good example of how it effects co-ordination. Some would say you could get through life not catching a ball. How about writing when your co-ordination is so shot. How about attempting to get through a doorway, without misjudging the width and hitting the frame. There also is the total oblivion to what is going on around you, putting yourself and others in danger. How about driving a car?

I know I do not know all the problems this causes you but thank you for sharing your problems with us MisterHyde, I know its not an easy thing to do :-4

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:04 am

I am thinking this thread should not be split. 'Do illnesses such as ADHD, ADD, Bi-Polar, Dyspraxia, Depression etc' exist, and are all diagnosed cases for real or has these illnesses been abused', and 'If so, how should they be treated? What are the effects of drug intervention, or effects of no drug intervention, what are the alternatives and do they work for all cases?'

Actually, maybe about 6 threads should cover it :wah:

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:45 am

WonderWendy3;722042 wrote: I had my son diagnosed with ADHD in the 2nd grade and the doctor put him on ridalyn (or however you spel it) I took him off it within 2 weeks and then took sugar out of his diet and stopped feeding him a lot of carbs and I had a different type of child. I also ended up pulling him out of the public school system because they were upset with me for not drugging him and he was failing due to his "active-ness" I home-schooled him for 2 years and then put him back in the SAME elem. school and he was on the honor roll for that year!

That same kid is going to be graduating from High school this year and he is a bright, responsible young adult. Yes, he still has his fits of anger, and there are some things he has to try to control about himself, and he is always conscious of what he is eating.....and knows when he needs to use discipline for his own good. I am very proud of him.....and VERY thankful I read similar information that JD posted when he was little....

We cannot all say that the same things are causing people the same problems. So thats not what I'm trying to say here. But in my sons case the anger comes from frustration. Hearing everything (even a pin drop), seeing everything (everything) - at such a rate (all bombarding the brain at once), not allowing any of it to be fully absorbed - total overload. That is how he explains it to me - I could not image having to deal with this every waking moment, and trying to sleep would seem almost impossible :-5

Thanks for sharing your experiences on this Wendy. :-4

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:52 am

And so I find myself happily posting away in this thread alone .... (someone hand me a pill ... or a bowl of oats), as recently said by a very good friend of mine :-4 :wah:

I can't help thinking that the amount of therapy he now receives is down to years of no treatment and years of misdiagnoses, and people who so called knew what they were dealing with and talking about. I fought this every step of the way, I left no stone unturned, I sought advice from any source available to me, I tried changes in diet and supplementary nutrition too. Therapy and psychiatry. I am under no misconception that this is the final and only answer - I am willing to try new avenues - I know this is not the end of his troubles. But right now for the first time in his life, after years of heartache, I have a son who enjoys live, does not have to deal with the inner turmoils that each waking day would bring, he is happy.

I also know that I have not practiced 'lazy parenting' skills and he has not been brought up in a dysfunctional or unbalanced home-life (I guess you can only take my word on that).

I also have another child with no problems - similar pregnancy (although she was born naturally and not by C-section), similar diet, same parenting skills and home environment

Pheasy :-4

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:22 am

JacksDad;722316 wrote: 02/August/1997 "Sunday Telegraph", London, U.K.

Test Offers Cure for Violent Children

by Victoria Macdonald, Health Correspondent

(With reference to Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder information)

CHILDREN who are aggressive, violent and disruptive at home and school are showing marked improvements after taking a simple £11 laboratory test that can show they are suffering from a chemical imbalance.

The urine test detects kryptopyrrole, a by-product of pyroluria, which means the body is depleted of zinc and vitamin B6. These are needed to control mood and behaviour.

By identifying the condition, children are able to be given supplements to correct the metabolic imbalance.

Source

We think that it is a direct result of exposure to heavy metal toxins such as cadmium and lead which prevent the absorption of zinc.

Now that I find very interesting. Over the decades we have consumed more and more heavy metal toxins due to poor quality water supplies and canned foods and drinks.

It's quite possible that a mother would share this toxicity with the child in her womb much like an addict shares their drugs with the baby.

In all my searching for answers I did not come across this. Thanks for letting me know JD I will certainly look in to it :-6

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:33 am

See, Pheasy. Part of my problem with psychiatrists diagnosing ADD/ADHD and other illnesses are neurological. Not psychological. Most psychiatrists shy away from neurology. They base their education on what history has deemed right and wrong, not pure science or medicine. (no offense, Tater) With my son all it took was some investigation into neurological reasons for his frustrations and it's defined. Synthesia.

Most chiropractors are better qualified to diagnose such issues. Chiropractors are schooled in neurology.

If you'd like I may be able to recommend some doctors in your area.

:-6

Imladris · Post by **Imladris** » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:19 am

I'm no expert on child behaviour - experienced two bereaved little girls who grew up to have typical teenage problems and my own daughter who has been such an easy baby and child I almost feel guilty saying it.

My contribution to this thread is just that I'm on anti-depressants have been on and off for years.

I was first diagnosed with post-natal depression, took tablets and time and got over that. A few years later it was back, same tablets and time sorted it out again. Then I developed fibromyalgia which can be a depressive illness though for me it isn't usually but those very same anti-depressants help to suppress some of the worst of my symptoms and for that I'm grateful.

I look back over my life and can see several occassions that I could have been called depressed. In childhood when I was isolated and frequently absent from school because of asthma, being a chubby child because exercise made me wheeze badly. At secondary school when I was bullied on the way to and from school and then whilst at school by a different set of kids. In my first job being humiliatedand bullied daily by my superviser. And so on.

If that were to happen to my child now - no way would I agree to her taking medication and I'm glad I wasn't offered it, a life long dependancy started in childhood? No thanks. There's enough of a stigma attached to mental health issues for the uninitiated in adulthood.

On a different note my friend's son was one of the worst behaved children I'd ever seen, a typical candidate for Ritalin. She cut out additives in his diet, enforced rules and standards of behaviour that she expected, found an outlet for his excess energy and what has proved to be vital - he is dyslexic and was struggling at school. He's getting help with his schooling and is by no means a model child just a nicer one to know now.

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:13 pm

Pheasy, I spoke with Dr. Martingano this evening.

He would like to speak to you.

PM me if you would like his phone number.

:-6

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:00 pm

My GF and I were discussing the benefits of a gluten free diet tonight when we came across this interesting piece on Wiki.

Medical Benefits

The gluten-free diet must be strictly followed by sufferers of celiac disease[18] and dermatitis herpetiformis.[19] Some medical practitioners also believe the diet may be helpful for persons with multiple sclerosis and other autoimmune disorders, [citation needed] as well as autism spectrum disorders,[20][21] ADHD, and some behavioural problems[citation needed].

The scientific literature on the link between gluten and autism is mixed and there is no substantial research on in utero causality. One study examined the effect of a strict casein-free and gluten-free diet on children with autism. The experimental group were fed the diet for 12 months. During that period the children had significantly fewer autistic symptoms than the control children, who were not fed the diet.[22] On the other hand, other studies have not found the same results. For the most recent review of scientific literature on the link between autism and a gluten-free diet, please see the article "Elimination diets in autism spectrum disorders: any wheat amidst the chaff?" [23]

Source

The answers are there folks.

Because of the crap our parents put in their bodies and we put into our and our childrens, this illness has begun to emerge. It's taken twenty or thirty years to reveal itself and now we're so brainwashed my McDonalds and PopTarts that we, as a society, just don't know any better. Science did learn that smoking causes cancer and fats lead to heart disease via cholesterol. How about eating chemicals causes illnesses that we've never experienced at this rate?

Imladris;722674 wrote:

On a different note my friend's son was one of the worst behaved children I'd ever seen, a typical candidate for Ritalin. She cut out additives in his diet, enforced rules and standards of behaviour that she expected, found an outlet for his excess energy and what has proved to be vital - he is dyslexic and was struggling at school. He's getting help with his schooling and is by no means a model child just a nicer one to know now.

Hmm. Change of diet and parenting skills.

Again. I am not saying that everyone lacks parenting skills. But all the skills in the universe ain't worth a hill of beans when your kid eats garbage everyday.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:09 pm

I can agree with the food and immune system disorders...if i eat alot of corn..my ra willl flare like a mother pooker for a couple of days everytime..

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:13 pm

JacksDad;727712 wrote: My GF and I were discussing the benefits of a gluten free diet tonight when we came across this interesting piece on Wiki.

Medical Benefits

The gluten-free diet must be strictly followed by sufferers of celiac disease[18] and dermatitis herpetiformis.[19] Some medical practitioners also believe the diet may be helpful for persons with multiple sclerosis and other autoimmune disorders, [citation needed] as well as autism spectrum disorders,[20][21] ADHD, and some behavioural problems[citation needed].

The scientific literature on the link between gluten and autism is mixed and there is no substantial research on in utero causality. One study examined the effect of a strict casein-free and gluten-free diet on children with autism. The experimental group were fed the diet for 12 months. During that period the children had significantly fewer autistic symptoms than the control children, who were not fed the diet.[22] On the other hand, other studies have not found the same results. For the most recent review of scientific literature on the link between autism and a gluten-free diet, please see the article "Elimination diets in autism spectrum disorders: any wheat amidst the chaff?" [23]

Source

The answers are there folks.

Because of the crap our parents put in their bodies and we put into our and our childrens, this illness has begun to emerge. It's taken twenty or thirty years to reveal itself and now we're so brainwashed my McDonalds and PopTarts that we, as a society, just don't know any better. Science did learn that smoking causes cancer and fats lead to heart disease via cholesterol. How about eating chemicals causes illnesses that we've never experienced at this rate?

Hmm. Change of diet and parenting skills.

Again. I am not saying that everyone lacks parenting skills. But all the skills in the universe ain't worth a hill of beans when your kid eats garbage everyday.

facts on autism..it makes one think we better really start looking at our diets..anything to slow this down..

AUTISM OCCURRENCE: One in every 150 children born in the US have autism. It is estimated approximately 1 million in the US have this disorder.
NOTE: This number does NOT include: PDD, Asperger's and other spectrum disorders. These statistics are endorsed by the CDC, American Academy of Pediatrics, and other federal organizations.

U.S. FACTS:
A new case of autism is diagnosed nearly every 20 minutes

There are 24,000 new cases diagnosed in the U.S. per year

The economic impact of autism is more than $90 billion and expected to more than double in the next decade.

Autism receives less than 5% of the research funding of many less prevalent childhood diseases.

There is no medical detection treatment, or cure for autism.
AUTISM COMPARED TO OTHER DISABILITIES: Autism is the fastest-growing developmental disability in the U.S. today.

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:20 pm

guppy;727715 wrote: AUTISM COMPARED TO OTHER DISABILITIES: Autism is the fastest-growing developmental disability in the U.S. today.

Know what the fastest growing disease is?

Diabetes.

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:26 pm

JacksDad;727719 wrote: Know what the fastest growing disease is?

Diabetes.

the pancreas only has a limited number of insulin making ability cells. by diet we tend to use up those cells quickly..the reason for diabetes two in middle age?..diet .....no other reason...when i say diet..i mean what we drink as well..

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:32 pm

guppy;727722 wrote: the pancreas only has a limited number of insulin making ability cells. by diet we tend to use up those cells quickly..the reason for diabetes two in middle age?..diet .....no other reason...when i say diet..i mean what we drink as well..

True, but the fastest growing disease in children?

I was told tonight that our children's children are the first generation whose parents may out live them.

This I've yet to research but I don't find it hard to believe.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:41 pm

Well - this thread has grown into several avenues

1st - I believe antidepressents can cause/ increase suicide tendancy at any age level.

JacksDad - I agree with the Chiropractor knowledge & diagnosis.

also the Gluten info - I know diet has everything to do with how one functions or doesn't.

There's several items I don't/refuse to eat as a adult - that I use to eat as a child, and my system functions much better.

I don't believe in this give a child a pill system - I'm appauled how quickly pills are issued for every behavior.

Patsy

guppy · Post by **guppy** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:44 pm

JacksDad;727725 wrote: True, but the fastest growing disease in children?

I was told tonight that our children's children are the first generation whose parents may out live them.

This I've yet to research but I don't find it hard to believe.

metabolic syndrome is the fastest growing disease world wide..its caused by diet..and stress and lack of exercise..you can look it up..this is what is killing our children now..why preteens are having heart attacks..it is a combination of high blood pressure..insulin resistance..and high triglycerides..you can argue some of it is inherited but diet is the main culprit..no way around that ....

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:45 pm

Real quick. From CDC

Diabetes is one of the most common chronic diseases in children and adolescents; about 151,000 people below the age of 20 years have diabetes.

When diabetes strikes during childhood, it is routinely assumed to be type 1, or juvenile-onset diabetes. However, in the last 2 decades, type 2 diabetes (formerly known as adult-onset diabetes) has been reported among U.S. children and adolescents with increasing frequency. Also, studies conducted in Europe showed an increase in the frequency of type 1 diabetes, especially in young children. It is unclear whether the frequency of type 1 diabetes is also increasing among U.S. youth.

Source

I need to go to bed but let me just throw this one out there to ponder.

An extreme case of poor diet and poisoning.

Addiction.

Take an alcoholic or drug addict.

They eat barely any food. Good or bad. And barrage their systems with poison.

What is the expected outcome.

C'mon. You needn't be a doctor to get this one.

Right. Loss of mental function and death.

Now. Tell me the benefits of let's say fructose syrup.

'S ok. I'll wait.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:50 pm

The reason the kids are sick - is because they don't do anything..

They don't walk to school

they don't play out side

they do very few chores if any - they do nothing as exercise

so as far as what disease is more promonate, is not a contest at this point

and a pill is not the answer.

Patsy

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:55 pm

Patsy Warnick;727729 wrote: Well - this thread has grown into several avenues

1st - I believe antidepressents can cause/ increase suicide tendancy at any age level.

JacksDad - I agree with the Chiropractor knowledge & diagnosis.

also the Gluten info - I know diet has everything to do with how one functions or doesn't.

There's several items I don't/refuse to eat as a adult - that I use to eat as a child, and my system functions much better.

I don't believe in this give a child a pill system - I'm appauled how quickly pills are issued for every behavior.

Patsy

Actually Patty, I see it as all related.

All of these thing happening to our kids are happening not for the reason psychiatry tells us but from poisoning.

Look back a few pages where Pheasy mention that this is all one subject.

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:10 pm

Jacksdad

Oh - I totally agree with you - as far as different avenues - this thread could be seperated by illness, thats all I meant..

I totally feel that systems cannot tolerate the toxins/poisons - I completely agree with you.

Patsy

watermark · Post by **watermark** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:50 pm

Since Autsm Spectrum Disorder (ASD) has been referred to several times I thought I'd tell about a video I watched not too long ago. This was a teaching video of a mom of a toddler, who had gotten into this obsessive ritual, very cute to mom, of course, cuz the kid was so focused on what he was doing and acting beyond his age perhaps. The stay at home mom had vidotaped her son throughout his babyhood, hoping to capture, I'm assuming, those memorable milestones. The video also demonstrated some excellent parenting skills she used to change, or mold, some odd interaction patterns that she had begun to notice whilst he was growing (and she was videotaping).

The mom first thought her son's behavior was really cute and endearing but as time went on mom sensed that he was actually behaving in a manner that seemed too focused, too intent on his own little world. For instance she videotaped him throwing his clothes in the dresser drawers and taking them out immediately, then throwing them in, taking them out, and on and on. She became concerned at his impersonal manner of doing things. This was something that was happening when her child was just around walking age, the moment when a baby develops some individuality and he wasn't develping the bonding with her or his dad that she had seen in other parent child relationships. The home video included the mom watching her son do these things, and we, the audience, watched it unfold.

The way she told the story was that she got concerned because her son's behavior didn't seem right, seemed a little less personable, less bonded, if you will, than what she intuitively felt was the way a little person might be with his mum (he was her first and wasn't sure what he should be doing), so she consulted with a specialist and got some objective feedback on what might be going on.

The mom decided that the baby's activity/development was indeed a little off and so she began changing her reaction to his previous cutsy ways and started to intercept his 'routine' of whatever it was he had become obsessed. At the point she made him stop what it was that bothered her, for example, throwing the clothes in the dresser scenario, and do something else. She explained that she made him look at her or she did something else with him, like talking to him, tickling or hugging him, to break the pattern that had been previously reinforced by her smiles and laughter, thinking she was just enjoying a bright, engaged and smart child.

She claimed this helped him. He started to become more interested in what others around him were doing and he wasn't so focused on these ritualized games he had played before, the ones mom had initially thought were funny and endearing. In my opinion, she was being the kid's best parent, maybe his own therapist at the age when change could readily occur. Most attentive, observant, available parents do this naturally when they sense kids need an extra 'umph' here or there to tweek their development, historically ending up without the need for outside 'intervention'.

The example I gave was an example for a child that had ASD characteristics at an early age (who eventually was not a kid who needed attention for this problem). I guess my point is, in telling about his and his family's story is that, being with your kid at an early point in development when parental input is most effective, was something that may have been crucial to this child, and others like him.

This mom's interaction with her son seemed to provide the exact kind of input necessary for her child at the right time. I don't know that working parents would have been able to sense the problem or been able to implement these natural shifts in dynamics that created the environment to nip the process in the bud.

I hope that wasn't too harsh of a statement there. It just seems that only a caregiver that was consistently invested in the growth of the child could have noticed and done something about this. I wrote this in part because I felt you, Jacksdad, mentioned a couple times about parenting skills and how this affects a child's emotional/psychological development. Well we have all heard how autism isn't caused by poor parenting, nevertheless, excellent attentive parenting can certainly be the cure for many burdensome problems exhibited by children with ASD. Maybe this is what you meant, JD, when you spoke of bad parenting causing childhood conditions?

I don't think parents mean to be negligent or bad it's just that when a kid who might need this extra bit of intense focused attention doesn't get it at the right stage of life then it is a lot harder to change the neurons in the developoing brain when kid is older and behaviors are more ingrained.

Me apologies for so long and hope it made sense,

Oh yeah, parents rule!!

Erin

summerishere · Post by **summerishere** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:41 am

JacksDad;722032 wrote: Teens have killed themselves with or without psycho pharmaceuticals.

But look at the drugs being prescribed.

Brand Name: Adderall

Benzedrine

Concerta

Cylert (now removed

from the market)

Daytrana (skin patch)

Deaner

Desoxyn

Dexedrine

Focalin

Metadate

Methylin

Provigil

Ritalin

Sparlon

Side Effects:Abdominal pain

Aggression

Angina (sudden acute

pain)

Anorexia

Blood pressure and

pulse changes

Blurred vision

Depression

Dizziness

Drowsiness

Dry mouth

Fever

Hallucinations

Headaches

Heart palpitations

Hypersensitivity

Increased irritability

Insomnia

Involuntary tics and

twitching called

Tourette’s Syndrome

Liver problems

Loss of appetite

Mental/mood changes

Moodiness

Nausea

Nervousness

Psychosis

Restlessness

Seizures

Stomach pain

Stunted growth

Suicidal thoughts

Tachycardia (heart

irregularity)

Toxic psychosis

Unusual weakness or

tiredness

Violent behavior

Vomiting

Weight loss

“Zombie demeanor

Doesn't this increase the chances of abhorrent behavior?

Let me add.

In children, stimulants appear to act like suppressants but psychiatrists and doctors have no idea why. A 1999 study published in Science Journal, determined: “The mechanism by which psychostimulants act as calming agents¦is currently unknown.

Source

Jack's Dad... I am appalled that you are dishing out advice to parents on this site for children that you know absolutely NOTHING about !

The above is a load of tripe..... you forgot to state that these are POSSIBLE side effects.... and NOT definite side effects!

Each child is different, each child has different problems; some can be merely social and a part of growing up, and some can be caused by mental illness... who are YOU to decide which child is suffering from which? What you are doing is potentially dangerous... I beg you all not to listen to him!

Do you have a child that has suffered from mental health problems, Jack's Dad? Or is your information and experience gained from a text book?

My daughter has had social problems for most of her life - she is now 15...... I, as her mother, have suspected for years that she has mental health problems and have tried to get the help she needs for years... since primary school.

Last month she jumped out of her bedroom window and ended up in hospital..... THEN, they took her seriously and now she is getting the help she so desperately needs. WHY does it take for a child to almost kill herself for people to take notice?

She has been prescribed sertraline... and I have been advised of all the possible side effects and am keeping a close eye on her... we have been told that she will most probably feel worse before she feels better, and I think the worst of that is over...... you have to remember that most of the children who are prescribed anti-depressants were probably suicidal before they started the course... and the first few weeks on the medication is the most dangerous and fragile time... tender loving care and understanding will hopefully see them safely through this.

We have to also bear in mind that some children who are 'depressed' will turn to drink or drugs in order to forget their problems, to give them that high that's missing in their lives... but of course, the high they crave is followed by enormous lows and often this is the reason that some attempt to take their lives.

Please do not hand out advice willy nilly to parents of depressed children that you know nothing about their history.... and parents.... please don't take advice from someone who is obviously so anti-medication.... sometimes, just sometimes, such medication, along with counselling, is a life saver!!

summer x :-6

summerishere · Post by **summerishere** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:46 am

Patsy Warnick;727735 wrote: The reason the kids are sick - is because they don't do anything..

They don't walk to school

they don't play out side

they do very few chores if any - they do nothing as exercise

so as far as what disease is more promonate, is not a contest at this point

and a pill is not the answer.

Patsy

You're generalising here Patsy!

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 6:40 am

MisterHyde;722461 wrote: As someone with higher functioning Autism (Dyspraxia with Asperger's tendencies) I'm not sure that the problems with your son will go away. I get the "when are you going to learn..." speech a lot at work, and often I feel like saying what your son said as a reply.

It's not that we don't want to improve, it's that there is some block from stopping us improve. It took me 6 months of physiotherapy to learn how to catch a ball. And I still can't kick one!

I'm sorry I missed this, I hope you come back! :-6

I guess the day I wrote that post I was incredibly frustrated, we had spent the day with friends who have a ten year old and the difference between them was so obvious.

I guess I'm fearful that he will never gain independence.

Pheasy raised a question about writing, I'm trying to decide whether to get into my sons school and insist he has the use of a laptop again. His current teacher is pushing for his handwriting to improve, I get reports of my son sitting at his desk with pen and paper and producing the date in an hour, not sure where his one to one is but if she were doing her job properly he'd be producing more. My son now hates writing, he doesn't draw pictures at home, what is wrong with allowing him to produce work on a laptop like he has for the last two years with his previous teacher. He's bored, not being challenged and it's telling in his behaviour as soon as he gets out of school.

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:04 am

Betty Boop;727877 wrote: I'm sorry I missed this, I hope you come back! :-6

I guess the day I wrote that post I was incredibly frustrated, we had spent the day with friends who have a ten year old and the difference between them was so obvious.

I guess I'm fearful that he will never gain independence.

Pheasy raised a question about writing, I'm trying to decide whether to get into my sons school and insist he has the use of a laptop again. His current teacher is pushing for his handwriting to improve, I get reports of my son sitting at his desk with pen and paper and producing the date in an hour, not sure where his one to one is but if she were doing her job properly he'd be producing more. My son now hates writing, he doesn't draw pictures at home, what is wrong with allowing him to produce work on a laptop like he has for the last two years with his previous teacher. He's bored, not being challenged and it's telling in his behaviour as soon as he gets out of school.

BB does your son have an IEP (Individual Education Program - raised when a child with specific needs has been identified -I'm not sure what its called in UK - I should cos. Josh had the equivalent when we lived there). Josh has an IEP which pretty much allows you to get any help required. ADHD or children whith similar problems (like dyspraxia etc), have real problems with their fine motor skills - also the learning problem takes all their concentration to focus and absorb. So trying to input information into the brain and then the stress of writing is very exhausting. My son found that using a pen was easier than a pencil. Also, you should under the IEP (or equivalent ) be able to get a lap-top for him to use in school. Josh was allowed to do all his home-work on the computer too. You will be amazed at the difference this will make to his learning, note taking and exam results.

Post by **Betty Boop** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:51 am

ThePheasant;727884 wrote: BB does your son have an IEP (Individual Education Program - raised when a child with specific needs has been identified -I'm not sure what its called in UK - I should cos. Josh had the equivalent when we lived there). Josh has an IEP which pretty much allows you to get any help required. ADHD or children whith similar problems (like dyspraxia etc), have real problems with their fine motor skills - also the learning problem takes all their concentration to focus and absorb. So trying to input information into the brain and then the stress of writing is very exhausting. My son found that using a pen was easier than a pencil. Also, you should under the IEP (or equivalent ) be able to get a lap-top for him to use in school. Josh was allowed to do all his home-work on the computer too. You will be amazed at the difference this will make to his learning, note taking and exam results.

Do you mean 'statemented' Pheasy? Yes he's statemented gets 25 hours of one to one with a TA allocated to him per week. The problem here is that with a change of teacher we have a change of approach. We have also had a change of TA and I don't think she is quite as supportive as the previous one.

In his last class he had access to a laptop and used it a lot, he was outputting some fantastic work along with a typing package designed for children like him.

At the moment my son has to write two sentences a weekend, sounds easy? haha, two hours nearly of sitting with him, constantly reminding him to keep on task, nagging him, pleading with him to keep writing, is it any wonder he hates it and so do I!!

Pheasy · Post by **Pheasy** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:56 am

Betty Boop;727906 wrote: Do you mean 'statemented' Pheasy? Yes he's statemented gets 25 hours of one to one with a TA allocated to him per week. The problem here is that with a change of teacher we have a change of approach. We have also had a change of TA and I don't think she is quite as supportive as the previous one.

In his last class he had access to a laptop and used it a lot, he was outputting some fantastic work along with a typing package designed for children like him.

At the moment my son has to write two sentences a weekend, sounds easy? haha, two hours nearly of sitting with him, constantly reminding him to keep on task, nagging him, pleading with him to keep writing, is it any wonder he hates it and so do I!!

I feel for you BB :-4 Believe me I have been there. Its heart-breaking for both the child and parent. I used to dread home-work - taking hours to do something that other kids could do in 10 mins. We would both end up exhausted and emotional.

Can he not do his work at home on the computer too. Also, you should be able to get him a lap-top at school - take it 'to the top' if you have to! He should not suffer and struggle at school. What year is he in?

JacksDad · Post by **JacksDad** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:46 am

watermark;727783 wrote:

Well we have all heard how autism isn't caused by poor parenting, nevertheless, excellent attentive parenting can certainly be the cure for many burdensome problems exhibited by children with ASD. Maybe this is what you meant, JD, when you spoke of bad parenting causing childhood conditions?

I don't think parents mean to be negligent or bad it's just that when a kid who might need this extra bit of intense focused attention doesn't get it at the right stage of life then it is a lot harder to change the neurons in the developoing brain when kid is older and behaviors are more ingrained.

Me apologies for so long and hope it made sense,

Oh yeah, parents rule!!

Erin

Thank you for clarifying that point, Erin. I couldn't find a way to explain it

I by no means want to insult any parent here and certainly the lazy trash parents who are welfare baby factories will never see a word of this.

summerishere;727846 wrote: Jack's Dad... I am appalled that you are dishing out advice to parents on this site for children that you know absolutely NOTHING about !

That's quite an assumption, summer. Perhaps the "Dad" part of my name might give you a hint as to the extent of my life that is my son.

My friends in real life know me as JD. A nickname I proudly wear.

summerishere;727846 wrote:

The above is a load of tripe..... you forgot to state that these are POSSIBLE side effects.... and NOT definite side effects!

Agreed. They are possible side effects. I should have added that at the end of the quoted article which I did not.

That said. Show me the tripe.

summerishere;727846 wrote:

Each child is different, each child has different problems; some can be merely social and a part of growing up, and some can be caused by mental illness... who are YOU to decide which child is suffering from which? What you are doing is potentially dangerous... I beg you all not to listen to him!

Sorry? At what point have I diagnosed anyones child other than my own?

I beg people not to listen to me as well. I have begged parents to do research and investigate on their own.

summerishere;727846 wrote:

Do you have a child that has suffered from mental health problems, Jack's Dad? Or is your information and experience gained from a text book?

As a matter of fact I do. His name is Jack. Clever, eh?

Fortunately he attends a holistic school whose policy is to look at all sides of the problem and work with the parents to remedy it.

summerishere;727846 wrote:

My daughter has had social problems for most of her life - she is now 15...... I, as her mother, have suspected for years that she has mental health problems and have tried to get the help she needs for years... since primary school.

Last month she jumped out of her bedroom window and ended up in hospital..... THEN, they took her seriously and now she is getting the help she so desperately needs. WHY does it take for a child to almost kill herself for people to take notice?

She has been prescribed sertraline... and I have been advised of all the possible side effects and am keeping a close eye on her... we have been told that she will most probably feel worse before she feels better, and I think the worst of that is over...... you have to remember that most of the children who are prescribed anti-depressants were probably suicidal before they started the course... and the first few weeks on the medication is the most dangerous and fragile time... tender loving care and understanding will hopefully see them safely through this.

We have to also bear in mind that some children who are 'depressed' will turn to drink or drugs in order to forget their problems, to give them that high that's missing in their lives... but of course, the high they crave is followed by enormous lows and often this is the reason that some attempt to take their lives.

I am sorry to hear about your daughters depression. At no point have I stated that mental illness does not exist. I am asking why does it happen to our children and what can we do about it before we turn to drugs. If I did it was in a moment of passion and I severely apologize for making such an ignorant statement.

If I did say that please quote it here.

summerishere;727846 wrote:

Please do not hand out advice willy nilly to parents of depressed children that you know nothing about their history.... and parents.... please don't take advice from someone who is obviously so anti-medication.... sometimes, just sometimes, such medication, along with counselling, is a life saver!!

summer x :-6

Posting my sources is willy nilly? :-3

erm.

Alrighty then.

Damn skippy I'm anti-drug.

I was a depressed teen. I turned to drinking and drugs to a point where it's a miracle that I'm alive today. Of course it took two heart attacks to make me see that. I abused my own body to the point of my near death had it not been for medicine and doctors.

I will allow no one to force drugs on my child.

On a personal note summer. While I fully understand and feel your passion, should you reply let's see if you can in a more civil manner.

Thank you.

JD