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Character wise, because he makes a really great character, I thought he made the ultimate sacrifice to a friend. Doing what his friend wanted even though it meant the destruction of them both.

How Shakespearean.

Far Rider;570350 wrote: Lots of great characters in scritpture...

personally to me they are all real people, by faith I accept that, most dont it would appear, especially here in the garden.

sort of takes a lot away from the whole bible being truthful and all, the doubt it causes concerns me.


Not at all.

Any great literature that stands the test of time, and the Bible has certainly done that, is chock full of truths. They don't last unless they are.

Far Rider:-6

You are definitely entitled to your position on Judas' death. You are correct that was a "simple" explanation. However, there is no connection outside of pure speculation. The Greek has no connection.

Mainline scholars see the two different stories.

I have to agree with Koan that the literary or metaphorical approach to the Bible can and does present profound truths. In fact it makes the Bible far more credible and was the ancient understanding of the sacred scriptures.

There is no difference between the Haida story of creation and the Genesis story. They are both myth and metaphorical. They are not historical stories in any way.

Shalom

Ted

Let's add a wrinkle.

When Jesus had said these things, He was troubled in spirit, and testified and said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me." Then the disciples looked at one another, perplexed about whom He spoke. Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of His discplies, whom Jesus loved. Simon Peter therefore motioned to him to ask who it was of whom He spoke. Then, leaning back on Jesus' breast, he said to Him, "Lord, who is it?" Jesus answered, "It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it." And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly." John 13:21-27


Satan entered Judas! Is this real or metaphorical?

If real, what is the spiritual reality of the story?

If metaphorical, what is the spiritual symbolism of the story?



Sorry, spot. Answering questions with questions is another bad habit of mine! :rolleyes:

Far Rider;570344 wrote: Ah but would not the Christ have given him the grace to endure all things? No, he was'nt in the Spirit when he committed the act, nor was he after and the level of his deprivation drove him to suicide.


He might - but then again he might not. You cannot say with certitude which version of the truth is actual and what form the deprivation took.

I would suggest that the story is metaphorical. It shows the depths to which people can go in betraying friends.

The story, otherwise, is too contrived to be historical. That Jesus openly announces that one will betray him and then names him is rather unrealistic. Would not his disciples have moved to prevent the betrayal? They still don't seem to understand though it has been placed squarely before them.

This also begs the question about the historicity of Judas.

Shalom

Ted:-6

i agree with Koan, i think judas got the raw deal .

jesus knew about the betrayal

Parker_scramble;571834 wrote: i agree with Koan, i think judas got the raw deal .



jesus knew about the betrayal


i think it was the plan ,no betrayel ,no crucifiction ,no point



poor judas , hated throuth the centuries for doing what he was told :rolleyes:

Far Rider:-6

If that is how you want to understand the scriptures I have absolutely no problem with that. I can't agree but that's life.

Shalom

Ted:-6