LilacDragon wrote: Who knows? But Marines are dying trying to find him.
You could very easily exchange that emotion-inspiring word "dying" for "doing their jobs."
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
BabyRider wrote: You could very easily exchange that emotion-inspiring word "dying" for "doing their jobs."
That you should not do. Politicians delight in such euphemisms because it stops people thinking about what is going on.
Remembering those that got killed becomes honouring those fallen in the line of duty-somehow it sounds better and makes the reality acceptable.
posted by far rider
Child, Im a soldier, in some ways Ive been one all my life. Our military has been weakened by all kinds of Politically correct social engineering since day one.
Our military needs to be made up of the biggest, meanest hardest SOB's that ever wallked the united states. We need to weed out the weakest, if they complain about being cold one day, cross em off the damn list.
It's not a country club.
How does being a homosexual stop you being a good soldier? If someone is shooting at you who cares if the soldier beside you is gay so long as he shoots back. Some of he most respected warriors in history have been both ways inclined, indeed in some cultiures it was actively encouraged as promoting male bonding. Most notably the spartans, mind you they were definitely peculiar in that they allowed women to have property rights as well. Alexander the great played both sides of the pitch so did achilles. Richard the Lionheart was supposedly as well and one or two other kings of england were a bit strange. Mind you I must confess a certain ambivalence as well cos while I try to be tolerant I can't understand the appeal.
posted by far rider
ok so now to your comment... in the military a serviceman has no rights, he voluntarily waves them by swearing an oath to be a soldier and protect and defend something bigger than him, his desires, his family, and his momma... its called the US constitution.
It is not the militaries job to look after the feelings or desires of an individual troop, he is a body, to be trained, a resource to fight, protect and defend, and he is expendable. he is a number...
and thats the cold hard truth.
He doesn't give up responsibility though, what happens if a soldier is given an order he regards as immoral or illegal?
Hopefully you realise by now I am not trying to wind you up by asking such a question. I'm curious to see what you think.
I quite like Bush-don't like what he is doing so far as foreign policy is concerned (domestic plicy i wouldn't comment on) but i can see where he might believe it is in american interests to take the action he has in the middle east even if i believe it wrong in so many ways. Bush is either a man of conviction doing what he thinks is right, or a simple dupe being used by others.
That you should not do. Politicians delight in such euphemisms because it stops people thinking about what is going on.
Remembering those that got killed becomes honouring those fallen in the line of duty-somehow it sounds better and makes the reality acceptable.
posted by far rider
Child, Im a soldier, in some ways Ive been one all my life. Our military has been weakened by all kinds of Politically correct social engineering since day one.
Our military needs to be made up of the biggest, meanest hardest SOB's that ever wallked the united states. We need to weed out the weakest, if they complain about being cold one day, cross em off the damn list.
It's not a country club.
How does being a homosexual stop you being a good soldier? If someone is shooting at you who cares if the soldier beside you is gay so long as he shoots back. Some of he most respected warriors in history have been both ways inclined, indeed in some cultiures it was actively encouraged as promoting male bonding. Most notably the spartans, mind you they were definitely peculiar in that they allowed women to have property rights as well. Alexander the great played both sides of the pitch so did achilles. Richard the Lionheart was supposedly as well and one or two other kings of england were a bit strange. Mind you I must confess a certain ambivalence as well cos while I try to be tolerant I can't understand the appeal.
posted by far rider
ok so now to your comment... in the military a serviceman has no rights, he voluntarily waves them by swearing an oath to be a soldier and protect and defend something bigger than him, his desires, his family, and his momma... its called the US constitution.
It is not the militaries job to look after the feelings or desires of an individual troop, he is a body, to be trained, a resource to fight, protect and defend, and he is expendable. he is a number...
and thats the cold hard truth.
He doesn't give up responsibility though, what happens if a soldier is given an order he regards as immoral or illegal?
Hopefully you realise by now I am not trying to wind you up by asking such a question. I'm curious to see what you think.
I quite like Bush-don't like what he is doing so far as foreign policy is concerned (domestic plicy i wouldn't comment on) but i can see where he might believe it is in american interests to take the action he has in the middle east even if i believe it wrong in so many ways. Bush is either a man of conviction doing what he thinks is right, or a simple dupe being used by others.
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
gmc wrote: That you should not do.
But you know what? I do it.
I have said, over and over, time and again, repeatedly, numerous times, (ya get me yet?)
A SOLDIERS JOB IS TO DIE FOR HIS COUNTRY IF HE IS CALLED TO DO SO.
People want to put all these pretty tags on this job, weep for the ones who give their lives while beating their chests, tearing their hair and screaming about the injustice of it all. It is their job. I don't know what other language to put it in, how many times I have to say it, or what else I have to do to explain it. When you enlist in the military in the United States, there is a chance you will die doing your job.
gmc wrote: He doesn't give up responsibility though, what happens if a soldier is given an order he regards as immoral or illegal?
You may not like what is being fought or why, you may not like where. Guess what? As a soldier, you don't get a say. You go in, you kill who you're told to kill, you get out, hopefully still alive, but there's no guarantees.
God love 'em all.
But you know what? I do it.
I have said, over and over, time and again, repeatedly, numerous times, (ya get me yet?)
A SOLDIERS JOB IS TO DIE FOR HIS COUNTRY IF HE IS CALLED TO DO SO.
People want to put all these pretty tags on this job, weep for the ones who give their lives while beating their chests, tearing their hair and screaming about the injustice of it all. It is their job. I don't know what other language to put it in, how many times I have to say it, or what else I have to do to explain it. When you enlist in the military in the United States, there is a chance you will die doing your job.
gmc wrote: He doesn't give up responsibility though, what happens if a soldier is given an order he regards as immoral or illegal?
You may not like what is being fought or why, you may not like where. Guess what? As a soldier, you don't get a say. You go in, you kill who you're told to kill, you get out, hopefully still alive, but there's no guarantees.
God love 'em all.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
Far Rider wrote: I have honestly never met ANY woman that could do that. I have seen some try, and try very hard.
To me, if you can pass college with a high GPA in a technical degree, learn every nuance of flight and every nut and bolt of a sophisticated fighter plane, get up before dawn, strap yourself into flaming rocket, pull over nine gravities of weight on your frame, roll upside down and sideways like the worst rollercoaster ever... for 4 hours straight, get freezing cold followed by blazing hot, navigate to a target hundreds of miles away in the dark, break hard away from missiles at speeds that will make your fillings fall out, make decisions at a rate of dozens per second, and black yourself out with G-forces, then do that again three times a day ...you can complain.
I have honestly met MANY women who could do that. I even trained them. Their reflexees were faster than men's and they did their homework.
Kids ask me sometimes if I ever knew any gay fighter pilots. Truthfully, I told them, "There must have been some, but if there were, I never knew it." Because all I cared about was whether or not they could do their job as well as mine and keep enemies off my tail so that I could come home.
To me, if you can pass college with a high GPA in a technical degree, learn every nuance of flight and every nut and bolt of a sophisticated fighter plane, get up before dawn, strap yourself into flaming rocket, pull over nine gravities of weight on your frame, roll upside down and sideways like the worst rollercoaster ever... for 4 hours straight, get freezing cold followed by blazing hot, navigate to a target hundreds of miles away in the dark, break hard away from missiles at speeds that will make your fillings fall out, make decisions at a rate of dozens per second, and black yourself out with G-forces, then do that again three times a day ...you can complain.
I have honestly met MANY women who could do that. I even trained them. Their reflexees were faster than men's and they did their homework.
Kids ask me sometimes if I ever knew any gay fighter pilots. Truthfully, I told them, "There must have been some, but if there were, I never knew it." Because all I cared about was whether or not they could do their job as well as mine and keep enemies off my tail so that I could come home.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
This is all quite interesting, but its not really what the thread was supposed to be about, which is peoples perceptions of politicians as individuals. But I will give my opinion on what is the heart of matter when it comes to the Bush presidency.
Right Sept 11, terrorist attack, response required. The first major operation that the administration took was Afganistan, which I supported as I thought it was the right thing to do in the circumstances, how sucessful it has been is a more complex debate. The second however was Iraq, which was a crazy idea in the first place. There is no doubt that Western interests are threated by a group of terrorist organizations of which Al Queda is the most obvious. They are (or should be) the target, what has that got to do with Iraq in acuality?, absolutley nothing. I think that at a time of real danger it is absurd that a government would waste so much time, money, and lives on a war it doesn't really need to fight. The goal should be to neutralize the treat posed by extreme terror groups, by whatever means are appropriate, so the question is why are almost 200,000 U.S. troops and 25,000 British soldiers being used to police Iraq (and dying in the process) while Al Queda is still very much in business and the whereabous of Osama Bin Landen (remember him) is still unknown. To me it is a case of criminal negligence on the part of politicians.
Right Sept 11, terrorist attack, response required. The first major operation that the administration took was Afganistan, which I supported as I thought it was the right thing to do in the circumstances, how sucessful it has been is a more complex debate. The second however was Iraq, which was a crazy idea in the first place. There is no doubt that Western interests are threated by a group of terrorist organizations of which Al Queda is the most obvious. They are (or should be) the target, what has that got to do with Iraq in acuality?, absolutley nothing. I think that at a time of real danger it is absurd that a government would waste so much time, money, and lives on a war it doesn't really need to fight. The goal should be to neutralize the treat posed by extreme terror groups, by whatever means are appropriate, so the question is why are almost 200,000 U.S. troops and 25,000 British soldiers being used to police Iraq (and dying in the process) while Al Queda is still very much in business and the whereabous of Osama Bin Landen (remember him) is still unknown. To me it is a case of criminal negligence on the part of politicians.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
SnoozeControl wrote: Where would you lot be without us in the background supplying the weapons, food, medical care?
lol. He got you that time, Far. Even I'm not crazy enough to **** off the supply and mechanics techs. After all, I don't want my wings to fall off.:wah:
lol. He got you that time, Far. Even I'm not crazy enough to **** off the supply and mechanics techs. After all, I don't want my wings to fall off.:wah:
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
"You want to talk about reality... I did. My opinion is that a sodomite is devient, he is unstable. It is my judgement based on the many I have met. To me they ALL, are unstable in their way of thinking. Becuase when I meet one, they present that way. It is what I have to judge, its in their actions. Now when I work with one I always give them the benifit of the doubt, but so far none have proven contrary to my basic opinion".
WHOA, hold on there, I'm not letting that one past. A sodomite is deviant? Unstable? That's not acceptable. You may not particularly like gay men, fair enough you can't like everyone, but to call them deviants and mad is something entirely different. Your points about there being problems with having gay men in a mostly heterosexual regiment or platoon, (I don't know what your term is), may have some merit. I don't know cause for one I'm not gay and two, I,m not in the army, but thinking that a persons sexual orientation makes them somehow deviant is well out of order.
WHOA, hold on there, I'm not letting that one past. A sodomite is deviant? Unstable? That's not acceptable. You may not particularly like gay men, fair enough you can't like everyone, but to call them deviants and mad is something entirely different. Your points about there being problems with having gay men in a mostly heterosexual regiment or platoon, (I don't know what your term is), may have some merit. I don't know cause for one I'm not gay and two, I,m not in the army, but thinking that a persons sexual orientation makes them somehow deviant is well out of order.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
SnoozeControl wrote: Reading back. Why do you ask? In what way have YOU served your country?
I asked because I can.
I found your knee-jerk auto-defense response to this thing amusing. That tells me alot about you. Had you been a guy, I would have not noticed as much, but the fact that you are female tells me a totally different thing. No one here attacked you, people are just curious. I'm even more curious now, after gauging your replies.
Since what you really want to know is have I ever served in the military like you did, (somehow that would make me more worthy) I'll admit that no, I have never served. I have a problem with authority.
I asked because I can.
I found your knee-jerk auto-defense response to this thing amusing. That tells me alot about you. Had you been a guy, I would have not noticed as much, but the fact that you are female tells me a totally different thing. No one here attacked you, people are just curious. I'm even more curious now, after gauging your replies.
Since what you really want to know is have I ever served in the military like you did, (somehow that would make me more worthy) I'll admit that no, I have never served. I have a problem with authority.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
-
LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
Wow. I was a supply troop for a few years. (In the AF, for those who are interested.) I worked in Individual Equipment for a while and in a COSO unit for a while. I took my job very seriously. Seems to me that pilots don't fly well if their flight suit is climbing up their behind or their boots are too tight. And the wrong part will not help his plane fly either.
Anywho.
I would think that a homophobe would just love it if all of those girly men were front line infantry. What a way to wipe out the gay population! Put the tough guys right behind them to clean up the mess.
Men crack me up sometimes. I venture to guess, Far, that some of the men you respect most are/were gay. Not every gay guy talks with a lisp and has a loose wrist. And I can think of a couple of decided hetero guys who were real sissies.
As far as our men dying for their country, YES, they are doing their job. But they are doing it under false pretenses and that is wrong. If Iraq was a major training ground for terrorists groups and if they really had weapons of mass destruction, then my husband would be doing his job for a just cause. Terrorists were the reason he joined the military to start with and nothing would make him happier then to go after Bin Laden. But he has been sent to a war zone that shouldn't be one. You can't invade a country just because you don't like the leader of that country. If that were the case, then someone would be walking up the shores of the U.S.!
Anywho.
I would think that a homophobe would just love it if all of those girly men were front line infantry. What a way to wipe out the gay population! Put the tough guys right behind them to clean up the mess.
Men crack me up sometimes. I venture to guess, Far, that some of the men you respect most are/were gay. Not every gay guy talks with a lisp and has a loose wrist. And I can think of a couple of decided hetero guys who were real sissies.
As far as our men dying for their country, YES, they are doing their job. But they are doing it under false pretenses and that is wrong. If Iraq was a major training ground for terrorists groups and if they really had weapons of mass destruction, then my husband would be doing his job for a just cause. Terrorists were the reason he joined the military to start with and nothing would make him happier then to go after Bin Laden. But he has been sent to a war zone that shouldn't be one. You can't invade a country just because you don't like the leader of that country. If that were the case, then someone would be walking up the shores of the U.S.!
Sandi
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
As far as our men dying for their country, YES, they are doing their job. But they are doing it under false pretenses and that is wrong. If Iraq was a major training ground for terrorists groups and if they really had weapons of mass destruction, then my husband would be doing his job for a just cause. Terrorists were the reason he joined the military to start with and nothing would make him happier then to go after Bin Laden. But he has been sent to a war zone that shouldn't be one. You can't invade a country just because you don't like the leader of that country. If that were the case, then someone would be walking up the shores of the U.S.![/QUOTE]
Exactly. The problem is not the U.S. military, they are just doing what they have been ordered to do, and they are undoubtly brave and valiant people. What is so sickening is that they are being asked to fight and die for what? For freedom? who's freedom?, to defend the U.S.? against a country that couldn't even seriously attack Jordan, which is 5,000 miles from NYC or 2,000 from London? Iraq was not the problem (and thats not to say that Sadam was a pleasant human being, he was a monster and his country a basket case, but so what?. There are plenty like it).
Its the people who are working to cause the U.S. (and the rest of us in the West harm), and have demonstrated the will and ability to do so. They are the people that need to be stopped. The war in Iraq is a sideshow, (I don't mean to offend anyone with loved ones there, I'm just stating a political reality) and it never ceases to amaze me how cynical politicians can be with their own people's lives. I think on most occasions France and Germany call these issues wrong, but in this specific case they were right and the U.S. and Britain were wrong. Well it doesn't matter now, its done. The thing to do is to try and make the most of the situation, to be honest I don't know what the answer is in Iraq now. What we have to do, all western countries, is to not bicker with each other but to try to develop an effective strategy for dealing with the real threats that we all face.
Exactly. The problem is not the U.S. military, they are just doing what they have been ordered to do, and they are undoubtly brave and valiant people. What is so sickening is that they are being asked to fight and die for what? For freedom? who's freedom?, to defend the U.S.? against a country that couldn't even seriously attack Jordan, which is 5,000 miles from NYC or 2,000 from London? Iraq was not the problem (and thats not to say that Sadam was a pleasant human being, he was a monster and his country a basket case, but so what?. There are plenty like it).
Its the people who are working to cause the U.S. (and the rest of us in the West harm), and have demonstrated the will and ability to do so. They are the people that need to be stopped. The war in Iraq is a sideshow, (I don't mean to offend anyone with loved ones there, I'm just stating a political reality) and it never ceases to amaze me how cynical politicians can be with their own people's lives. I think on most occasions France and Germany call these issues wrong, but in this specific case they were right and the U.S. and Britain were wrong. Well it doesn't matter now, its done. The thing to do is to try and make the most of the situation, to be honest I don't know what the answer is in Iraq now. What we have to do, all western countries, is to not bicker with each other but to try to develop an effective strategy for dealing with the real threats that we all face.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
Gal. UM if you read quickly I based my opinion on the Gay men that I know of whom I have worked with. I stated that very carefully. Unitl I met some that change my opinion, it stays the way it is.
FR, I read very carefully what you said, the reason I pulled you up on your comment is because I think that you aren't just gay bashing, you seem more thoughtful than that, I just don't think opinions like that should go unchallenged. I have met a few gay people that I didn't like very much, but then I've met a lot who are just good, good people. Suppose you call it as you find it, but its important to be aware that its sometimes very easy to be prejudiced against people who's idea's conflict with your own, I know, cause I've done it myself.
FR, I read very carefully what you said, the reason I pulled you up on your comment is because I think that you aren't just gay bashing, you seem more thoughtful than that, I just don't think opinions like that should go unchallenged. I have met a few gay people that I didn't like very much, but then I've met a lot who are just good, good people. Suppose you call it as you find it, but its important to be aware that its sometimes very easy to be prejudiced against people who's idea's conflict with your own, I know, cause I've done it myself.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
Wow talk about time differences, snooze control last post 3.19AM
Posted by baby rider
I have said, over and over, time and again, repeatedly, numerous times, (ya get me yet?)
A SOLDIERS JOB IS TO DIE FOR HIS COUNTRY IF HE IS CALLED TO DO SO.
People want to put all these pretty tags on this job, weep for the ones who give their lives while beating their chests, tearing their hair and screaming about the injustice of it all. It is their job. I don't know what other language to put it in, how many times I have to say it, or what else I have to do to explain it. When you enlist in the military in the United States, there is a chance you will die doing your job.
I would disagree with you in part, it is a soldiers job to fight for his country and preferably not die in the process. Although at the same time it is strong possibility that they might get killed and they have to accept the risks when they sign up.
By the same token it is the job of politicians and those who elect them to make sure that when a soldier goes to war it is when there is no alternative and the war is for a good reason. Yes it was part of the risk when they knowingly signed up and agreed to follow orders but I happen to think that the relatives of those in the armed forces have every right to question why their son, husband got killed.
In olden times it was for queen and country, for empire, now in europe you would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that is a good reason to go to war and "national interests" is too vague a reason people turn round and say what are they, prove it is necessary and whose interests are you really talking about. You can fool fellow politicians but ordinary people are not that stupid.
posted by baby rider
You may not like what is being fought or why, you may not like where. Guess what? As a soldier, you don't get a say. You go in, you kill who you're told to kill, you get out, hopefully still alive, but there's no guarantees.
God love 'em all.
Up to a point, but as a citizen soldier you have a right to call your leaders to account when they get it wrong and either don't give enough support or get you in to situations when they could have been avoided. Also following orders is no defence if you commit an atrocity.
I suppose what I am saying that the days when political leaders don't have their actions questioned are hopefully long gone, when you start believing that the leader should be followed blindly without being called to account or his or her motives questioned you are no longer living in a free country.
To accuse those who oppose the war of supporting terrorists is sophistry of the worst kind much beloved of politicians who don't want people thinking and want them to keep quiet is case they upset their peers by being unpatriotic. Just as saying "dying for doing their jobs" is as if to say well that's O.K. that's what they are there for. There is no such thing as a disposable soldier.
posted by snooze control
You know what? I try very hard not to be offended by online posts, but that one got me. The superior attitude of the warrior elite just bugs the **** out of me. Where would you lot be without us in the background supplying the weapons, food, medical care? Don't pull that. I love my country just as much as you do. How dare you judge people by their sexual preference!
And what, exactly, are you doing for your country now?
Interesting cultural difference, in the UK being in the armed forces is not so much a macho thing, it's just something you do or used to do. Macho posturing is a social no no that impresses little or not at all.
How about does Bush deserve any good press?
Posted by baby rider
I have said, over and over, time and again, repeatedly, numerous times, (ya get me yet?)
A SOLDIERS JOB IS TO DIE FOR HIS COUNTRY IF HE IS CALLED TO DO SO.
People want to put all these pretty tags on this job, weep for the ones who give their lives while beating their chests, tearing their hair and screaming about the injustice of it all. It is their job. I don't know what other language to put it in, how many times I have to say it, or what else I have to do to explain it. When you enlist in the military in the United States, there is a chance you will die doing your job.
I would disagree with you in part, it is a soldiers job to fight for his country and preferably not die in the process. Although at the same time it is strong possibility that they might get killed and they have to accept the risks when they sign up.
By the same token it is the job of politicians and those who elect them to make sure that when a soldier goes to war it is when there is no alternative and the war is for a good reason. Yes it was part of the risk when they knowingly signed up and agreed to follow orders but I happen to think that the relatives of those in the armed forces have every right to question why their son, husband got killed.
In olden times it was for queen and country, for empire, now in europe you would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that is a good reason to go to war and "national interests" is too vague a reason people turn round and say what are they, prove it is necessary and whose interests are you really talking about. You can fool fellow politicians but ordinary people are not that stupid.
posted by baby rider
You may not like what is being fought or why, you may not like where. Guess what? As a soldier, you don't get a say. You go in, you kill who you're told to kill, you get out, hopefully still alive, but there's no guarantees.
God love 'em all.
Up to a point, but as a citizen soldier you have a right to call your leaders to account when they get it wrong and either don't give enough support or get you in to situations when they could have been avoided. Also following orders is no defence if you commit an atrocity.
I suppose what I am saying that the days when political leaders don't have their actions questioned are hopefully long gone, when you start believing that the leader should be followed blindly without being called to account or his or her motives questioned you are no longer living in a free country.
To accuse those who oppose the war of supporting terrorists is sophistry of the worst kind much beloved of politicians who don't want people thinking and want them to keep quiet is case they upset their peers by being unpatriotic. Just as saying "dying for doing their jobs" is as if to say well that's O.K. that's what they are there for. There is no such thing as a disposable soldier.
posted by snooze control
You know what? I try very hard not to be offended by online posts, but that one got me. The superior attitude of the warrior elite just bugs the **** out of me. Where would you lot be without us in the background supplying the weapons, food, medical care? Don't pull that. I love my country just as much as you do. How dare you judge people by their sexual preference!
And what, exactly, are you doing for your country now?
Interesting cultural difference, in the UK being in the armed forces is not so much a macho thing, it's just something you do or used to do. Macho posturing is a social no no that impresses little or not at all.
How about does Bush deserve any good press?
-
Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
I don't care who my co-worker has sex with, or wants to have sex with, as long as it's not me or my wife. Put two sharp-shooter unstable deviants in a foxhole together with the enemy coming for them ... I don't think sex would be tops on their mind. Same with a newly-married couple, for that matter.
Of course that's academic for me. It's not in my makeup to be infantry. I'm backline support all the way.
21 years US Air Force.
Of course that's academic for me. It's not in my makeup to be infantry. I'm backline support all the way.
21 years US Air Force.
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
I would love a bit more definition on what Far means by unstable?
The reason for this is l am trying to understand your attitude towards gay men, l am assuming this covers gay women too.
I understand that people from various places, religions have differing views on being gay and what that means, l just have a hard time understanding the belief that if your gay your unstable?
And no lm not trying to have a go l really would like to discuss this.
Im with you Acc l dont care aslong as they are not chasing me and my other half
The reason for this is l am trying to understand your attitude towards gay men, l am assuming this covers gay women too.
I understand that people from various places, religions have differing views on being gay and what that means, l just have a hard time understanding the belief that if your gay your unstable?
And no lm not trying to have a go l really would like to discuss this.
Im with you Acc l dont care aslong as they are not chasing me and my other half
take a bite out of life it's there to be tasted!!
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
Galbally wrote: thinking that a persons sexual orientation makes them somehow deviant is well out of order.
Actually, Far used the word perfectly:
Deviant - adj. - 1. deviating or departing from the norm. 2. A person or thing that deviates or departs markedly from the accepted norm.
Homosexuality is obviously not the norm. If it was the human race would be extinct by now. Besides everyone knows that homosexuality is a birth defect. See Simon Levay's work. Simon Levay, a neurobiologist at the Salk Institute, has proven that homosexuality is related to brain functioning, as part of the hypothalamus in homosexual men is about a quarter to half the size it is in heterosexual men. Several of his other studies have also pointed to a genetic predisposition governed by one or more genes on the X chromosome.
Homosexuals are deviants and are not normal. Get over it.
Actually, Far used the word perfectly:
Deviant - adj. - 1. deviating or departing from the norm. 2. A person or thing that deviates or departs markedly from the accepted norm.
Homosexuality is obviously not the norm. If it was the human race would be extinct by now. Besides everyone knows that homosexuality is a birth defect. See Simon Levay's work. Simon Levay, a neurobiologist at the Salk Institute, has proven that homosexuality is related to brain functioning, as part of the hypothalamus in homosexual men is about a quarter to half the size it is in heterosexual men. Several of his other studies have also pointed to a genetic predisposition governed by one or more genes on the X chromosome.
Homosexuals are deviants and are not normal. Get over it.
All the world's a stage and the men and women merely players...Shakespeare
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
Look, can we get back to what this is supposed to be about?, if people want to discuss homosexuality and its various issues that can be another thread, I'm not here to be an advocate for gay rights, I just think some of the opinions about gays being expressed here are quite extreme, anyway, what about frickin Bush, I think I'm gonna expand this and start a new thread, "The war on Terror, is it hot, or not?".
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
SnoozeControl wrote: Knee jerk reaction in what way? I was merely defending ALL people that aren't front line. We all have some value, don't you think? Who cares if that person's gay or not, I really don't see that that has any bearing on the situation.
Granted, I got PO'd. But I don't like the smug attitude I saw prevalent in this thread toward someone that isn't acting like Rambo.
Defending them against whom or what? I never attacked anyone, I simply noted your immediate defensiveness, and wondered at it. And yes, I do think we all have some value, everyone regardless if they serve their country by actually joining the military or just by being a supportive, upstanding, law-abiding citizen and raising their children to be the same.
Granted you did get PO'ed. And if that is all it takes to get under your skin, perhaps you should consider the discussions you join in, especially ones that can get as diverse and volatile as this. Never do we all agree on every point made in threads like this. Differing views and opinions are what keep places like this from becoming stagnant. The PC attitude that anyone can serve regardless of their sexual tendencies is not one that is shared by everyone. As you have seen. And each view can and should be expressed. If you take that as smugness, that is your issue, not anyone else's.
Granted, I got PO'd. But I don't like the smug attitude I saw prevalent in this thread toward someone that isn't acting like Rambo.
Defending them against whom or what? I never attacked anyone, I simply noted your immediate defensiveness, and wondered at it. And yes, I do think we all have some value, everyone regardless if they serve their country by actually joining the military or just by being a supportive, upstanding, law-abiding citizen and raising their children to be the same.
Granted you did get PO'ed. And if that is all it takes to get under your skin, perhaps you should consider the discussions you join in, especially ones that can get as diverse and volatile as this. Never do we all agree on every point made in threads like this. Differing views and opinions are what keep places like this from becoming stagnant. The PC attitude that anyone can serve regardless of their sexual tendencies is not one that is shared by everyone. As you have seen. And each view can and should be expressed. If you take that as smugness, that is your issue, not anyone else's.
[FONT=Arial Black]I hope you cherish this sweet way of life, and I hope you know that it comes with a price.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
~Darrel Worley~
[/FONT]
Bullet's trial was a farce. Can I get an AMEN?????
We won't be punished for our sins, but BY them.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
Galbally wrote: Look, can we get back to what this is supposed to be about?, control freak. 
Galbally wrote: if people want to discuss homosexuality and its various issues that can be another thread, I'm not here to be an advocate for gay rights, I just think some of the opinions about gays being expressed here are quite extreme, anyway, what about frickin Bush, [...]I think he's straight. :yh_rotfl
I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.
Galbally wrote: if people want to discuss homosexuality and its various issues that can be another thread, I'm not here to be an advocate for gay rights, I just think some of the opinions about gays being expressed here are quite extreme, anyway, what about frickin Bush, [...]I think he's straight. :yh_rotfl
I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
:wah:
nice one..
sorry you are right of course the topic has been veering way too much.. apologies.
nice one..
sorry you are right of course the topic has been veering way too much.. apologies.
take a bite out of life it's there to be tasted!!
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
Yeah, you got me bang to rights accountable, just another typical white middle-class male. Anyway, bollix to this, I'm getting bored, I think I will go to the pet advice board.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
Galbally wrote: Yeah, you got me bang to rights accountable, just another typical white middle-class male. Anyway, bollix to this, I'm getting bored, I think I will go to the pet advice board.
My apologies. I thought you had thicker skin, based on your posts.
My apologies. I thought you had thicker skin, based on your posts.
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
Accountable wrote: My apologies. I thought you had thicker skin, based on your posts.
I do, you misunderstood, I was only joking, sorry if it wasn't very apparent. Actually I don't mind what way the thread goes, i don't own it after all! Ah the Bush thing is getting played out anyway. So what was it about?, gays in the military, what about putting pensioners in the special forces, would that cause problems?
I do, you misunderstood, I was only joking, sorry if it wasn't very apparent. Actually I don't mind what way the thread goes, i don't own it after all! Ah the Bush thing is getting played out anyway. So what was it about?, gays in the military, what about putting pensioners in the special forces, would that cause problems?
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
Far Rider wrote: Pensioners? Um, Im a farm boy Gal, give it to me in farm english. :wah:
Sorry, I didn't realize that you don't have that word. Like snooze said its old people. It would definetly be a bad idea anyway, they would probably forget what side they were fighting on, or would hold up battles with their incessant stories about how things were better and the summers were hotter during WWII. Still, recruitment is down and if you throw the gays out, you will have to replace them with someone.
BTW, this is obviously a joke, so don't get all military on me, I'm allowed to joke about this as me great grandfather actually survived the battle of the Somme, its in the consititution or something.
Sorry, I didn't realize that you don't have that word. Like snooze said its old people. It would definetly be a bad idea anyway, they would probably forget what side they were fighting on, or would hold up battles with their incessant stories about how things were better and the summers were hotter during WWII. Still, recruitment is down and if you throw the gays out, you will have to replace them with someone.
BTW, this is obviously a joke, so don't get all military on me, I'm allowed to joke about this as me great grandfather actually survived the battle of the Somme, its in the consititution or something.
"We are never so happy, never so unhappy, as we imagine"
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
Le Rochefoucauld.
"A smack in the face settles all arguments, then you can move on kid."
My dad 1986.
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
OK, I'll get the thread back on topic.
Bush's mannerisms can be annoying but that goes for most politicians. It's how comedians make a living. Things that annoy me about Bush - the way he bobs his head and pauses everytime he says something as if it is really profound. The way he stands and walks with his arms away from his body as if he is waiting to be deconed.
What I like about him - he is driven by core beliefs and principles not opinion polls. Even if I don't always agree with him, I admire him for it. It is a quality that is rare in politicians.
Bush's mannerisms can be annoying but that goes for most politicians. It's how comedians make a living. Things that annoy me about Bush - the way he bobs his head and pauses everytime he says something as if it is really profound. The way he stands and walks with his arms away from his body as if he is waiting to be deconed.
What I like about him - he is driven by core beliefs and principles not opinion polls. Even if I don't always agree with him, I admire him for it. It is a quality that is rare in politicians.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Does Bush really deserve all the bad press?
SnoozeControl wrote: The guy's working for us. He should be listening to the opinion polls, don't you think?
Absolutely not. He's the leader. Many presidents have taken unpopular stances that were praised later. Many others f'd up in the same way.
Congress' job is to pay attention to the polls and keep him in check. Checks and balances. The President can do nothing without money. Congress controls the money.
The President leads the nation. The Senate represents the States and House of Representatives represents the People. That's why I will always have a hard time voting for a long-time senator for president. Different skill set.
Absolutely not. He's the leader. Many presidents have taken unpopular stances that were praised later. Many others f'd up in the same way.
Congress' job is to pay attention to the polls and keep him in check. Checks and balances. The President can do nothing without money. Congress controls the money.
The President leads the nation. The Senate represents the States and House of Representatives represents the People. That's why I will always have a hard time voting for a long-time senator for president. Different skill set.