ForumGarden

Mag

You don't need to worry or fear for us.

We're a strong Country and Trump is a representative with a large title and assuming he always has a large mouth - or a lot of lip service.

If Trump is Pres. - he'll have many to help mold him & perhaps tone him down.

I'm not worried - fact is either will be a nightmare in most issues.

Trump surprised most.

Patsy

Presumably President Obama will continue his warmongering into early January. What happens after that is important.

Patsy Warnick;1502445 wrote: Mag

You don't need to worry or fear for us.

We're a strong Country and Trump is a representative with a large title and assuming he always has a large mouth - or a lot of lip service.

If Trump is Pres. - he'll have many to help mold him & perhaps tone him down.

I'm not worried - fact is either will be a nightmare in most issues.

Trump surprised most.

Patsy


I fear for you because he didnt have any policies but he did have a mandate. So he has to do what he promised he would do. That wall has to be built, and citizens have to be rounded up in to what i assume will be cattle trucks and deported.

And Putins speech.....omg! I hope Americans are listening.

In answer to the thread's title....................probably.......if he isn't installed as the first American King before the next election.

Hold on to your stetsons you people the wind of change is blowing.

magentaflame;1502452 wrote: I fear for you because he didnt have any policies but he did have a mandate. So he has to do what he promised he would do. That wall has to be built, and citizens have to be rounded up in to what i assume will be cattle trucks and deported.

And Putins speech.....omg! I hope Americans are listening.


CITIZENS?

Nobody is going to be rounded up and put into cattle trucks. Ya all forget one thing which is before any person can be deported has his day in court. I just can't see any mass deportation of anybody.

Citizens

They're Illegal - Illegal's will go through a process.

they're not citizens.

Let's see if Trump fulfills his lip service (promises). the wall - illegals - changes?

Unfortunately Hillary did not reach or relate to the younger generation

Many are crying today.

Many are scared - but we're all going to have to ride this wave of the unknown.

Patsy

Patsy Warnick;1502445 wrote: Mag

You don't need to worry or fear for us.

We're a strong Country and Trump is a representative with a large title and assuming he always has a large mouth - or a lot of lip service.

If Trump is Pres. - he'll have many to help mold him & perhaps tone him down.

I'm not worried - fact is either will be a nightmare in most issues.

Trump surprised most.

Patsy


Have you seen the list of potential cabinet members?

(Palin, Gingrich, Giuliani, Bachmann, ...)

Yes. fear for us, and fear us.

It's gonna be GREAT!

spot;1502448 wrote: What happens after that is important.


Two words: Seig Heil!

I heard one of Trump's supporters rejoice that "He was gonna run the country as God wanted it run "

Kinda scares me a bit

President-Elect Trump has killed nobody, he has created no refugees out of stable families who were living secure lives until American funding destabilized their countries.

Hillary Clinton, in stark contrast, has overseen as Secretary of State the deaths and uprooting of millions of people in the Middle East. It's a fair assessment that she would have carried on in the same vein as President.

This contrast is the one essential consideration here. Nothing else comes close to being relevant.

Saint_;1502467 wrote: Two words: Seig Heil!


Godwin's law

LarsMac;1502466 wrote: Have you seen the list of potential cabinet members?

(Palin, Gingrich, Giuliani, Bachmann, ...)

Yes. fear for us, and fear us.

It's gonna be GREAT!


Haven't seen that or know where it comes from.

Stack all those against the Hillary card.

Which trumps?

tude dog;1502472 wrote: Haven't seen that or know where it comes from.

Stack all those against the Hillary card.

Which trumps?


Most of those come from Pro-trump people speculating on his choices, based upon his own comments during the campaign.

I am holding on to the hope that he is quickly humbled by the enormity of the job that will soon be his, and he finds and recruits intelligent and thoughtful people who are wise enough to guide him though the next four years.

If not, we are genuinely screwed.

As an afterthought, in case future generations never get told, the BBC started its coverage of election night by showing Hillary Clinton to have a 6% poll advantage over Mr Trump, something they got wrong by 6%. Brexit in the UK was predicted on the day to have a 3% Remain advantage which was out by 5% when the results were counted.

The pollsters' predictions for both nights were inaccurate because of a social embarrassment factor - the "I can't admit in public to what I just did". This can be fixed in future either by switching several predicted percent from the nice party to the nasty party when reporting an election day poll, or by branding the nasty voters on the forehead with indelibly seared blisters before they leave the voting booth.

I saw a well-phrased comment elsewhere, that the "destabilization of other countries has been a primary aim of U.S. foreign policy throughout" this century. I think that's correct, I think it actually dates back into the eighties at the very least and I think nothing matters more than that it should be stopped. President Trump has said repeatedly and consistently that this destabilization policy is counter-productive and that he'll not allow its continuation.

Meanwhile, has anyone actually red President Trump's Contract with the Voter? Now would be a good time to do so.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... ocument/p1

spot;1502531 wrote: As an afterthought, in case future generations never get told, the BBC started its coverage of election night by showing Hillary Clinton to have a 6% poll advantage over Mr Trump, something they got wrong by 6%. Brexit in the UK was predicted on the day to have a 3% Remain advantage which was out by 5% when the results were counted.

The pollsters' predictions for both nights were inaccurate because of a social embarrassment factor - the "I can't admit in public to what I just did". This can be fixed in future either by switching several predicted percent from the nice party to the nasty party when reporting an election day poll, or by branding the nasty voters on the forehead with indelibly seared blisters before they leave the voting booth.

I saw a well-phrased comment elsewhere, that the "destabilization of other countries has been a primary aim of U.S. foreign policy throughout" this century. I think that's correct, I think it actually dates back into the eighties at the very least and I think nothing matters more than that it should be stopped. President Trump has said repeatedly and consistently that this destabilization policy is counter-productive and that he'll not allow its continuation.

Meanwhile, has anyone actually red President Trump's Contract with the Voter? Now would be a good time to do so.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... ocument/p1


Yup. Read it.

We're basically ****ed

LarsMac;1502540 wrote: Yup. Read it.

We're basically ****ed


Read these.

2016 Democratic

Party Platform

July 21, 2016

Republican Platform 2016

Nobody ever read those as they mean nothing. I am more interested in his actions and what he now says.

There was a perfectly valid question of Question Time, which everyone seemed to be dodging around - "Would the result have been different if Hillary Clinton was a man"? It may seem a silly question, but I believe it would have made a big difference. Regardless of political leanings, there are those who would vote simply because of gender (for or against). The same goes for Race. I was amazed that Obama ever won the Presidency in the first place. I said at the time he had a doubly tough task ahead of him because he would be judged on his being black as well as by his success / failure as a President. When he got re-elected he had more than proved himself. Personally I believe him to have been the best President in U.S. history. Now Trump seems to have more mass protests against him, even before his inauguration, than any other President in history.

I wonder if any leading bookies are running a Dead Pool as to the dates of his assassination. I seriously believe it to be a 'when' rather than an 'if'.

FourPart;1502553 wrote: I wonder if any leading bookies are running a Dead Pool as to the dates of his assassination. I seriously believe it to be a 'when' rather than an 'if'.


You are not the only one to bring up this possibly.

I find it disturbing as nobody connects such a possibility with Far Left, Progressives, Liberals, anarchists, etc and so forth.

I don't remember such talk when Obama was first elected. I don't remember riots etc.

Ever wonder wonder why conservatives are more civilized?

tude dog;1502558 wrote: I don't remember such talk when Obama was first elected. I could, if you wish, look back and quote a few such comments at the time from this site if you like, but it would be unsightly.

spot;1502551 wrote:


Where is this wonderful sign posted? Outside a pub, I imagine. :wah:

tude dog;1502558 wrote: You are not the only one to bring up this possibly.

I find it disturbing as nobody connects such a possibility with Far Left, Progressives, Liberals, anarchists, etc and so forth.

I don't remember such talk when Obama was first elected. I don't remember riots etc.

Ever wonder wonder why conservatives are more civilized?


Obama won by a popular vote. Trump did not. Obama was a man for the People. Trump is a man for Trump.

I never did consider Conservatives as being civilised at all. Far from it. Do you consider the Slave Owner as being Civilised, or those who oppose slavery by protesting against as Uncivilised? That is the way of Conservatism. That minority who hold the money & power holding dominion above the vast majority of those who do not.

& tude doesn't remember those menacing men with their guns out in open carry states trying to get close to Obama when he made appearances in those communities. Show-offs? Just Jerks? Threatening, uncivilized behavior. Uncivilised behaviour. I write bilingually!

FourPart;1502566 wrote: Obama won by a popular vote.[/url Trump did not. Obama was a man for the People. Trump is a man for Trump.


That is your opinion and entitled to it.

FourPart;1502566 wrote: I never did consider Conservatives as being civilised at all. Far from it.


Sorry you think that way.

FourPart;1502566 wrote: Do you consider the Slave Owner as being Civilised, or those who oppose slavery by protesting against as Uncivilised? That is the way of Conservatism. That minority who hold the money & power holding dominion above the vast majority of those who do not.


Uh, please. I am not prepared to answer a rant.

There appear to be riots and demonstrations against the election result.

Had the election gone the other way and these were Trump supporters protesting, people would regard them as irrational angry twerps with no concept of the democratic process.

It works both ways.

AnneBoleyn;1502565 wrote: Where is this wonderful sign posted? Outside a pub, I imagine. :wah:


Definitely outside a pub, yes. It drifted past on Twitter, I've no idea who took it.

Thuis m night work out well in the long erun - thosw who didn't bother voting might be galvanised in to voting the next time. I see the Ku Klux Klan are planning a victory parade .

The shape of the new White House administration is starting to emerge.The ADL’s chief executive, Jonathan Greenblatt, welcome Priebus’s appointment but said of Bannon’s: “It is a sad day when a man who presided over the premier website of the ‘alt-right’ – a loose-knit group of white nationalists and unabashed antisemites and racists – is slated to be a senior staff member in the ‘people’s house’.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ouse-staff

If the price of eliminating American Exceptionalism is white nationalism, unabashed antisemitism and racism then that's a small price to pay. I favour none of them, but the world's biggest man-made killer disease ever since Truman took office is American Exceptionalism and that has to become a historical aberration, it has to know it no longer exists and it has to stay gone.

America collectively elected the Bush administration in 2000 and President Trump is the consequence. All that earlier external war-mongering is poised to be internalized.

If the new Trump White House administration wants to take the first small step, then stop arming, protecting and bankrolling the US-invented Syrian opposition and its various paramilitary associates. America has no national interest in the ruinous Syrian civil war it instigated.

The first black president in american history will shortly be handing over the keys to a crooked narcissist endorsed by the ku klux klan and the christian fundamentalists. what could possibly go wrong?

It doesn't bode well for Americans.

On the other hand, the rest of the world might finally get a breather and not before time.

This entire refugee harvest Europe's trying to cope with is American sown, the last thing the world needs is further destabilizing and Middle Eastern destabilization is Hillary Clinton's middle name. If the crisis just shifted from Europe to America that's fine by me.

Has any US president elect ever faced a trial for fraud in between the election and inauguration?

tude dog;1502470 wrote: Godwin's law


No, Godwin's Law implies that people will unnecessarily compare someone or something to Hitler or Naziism. Comparing Trump to Hitler is necessary, since he parallels Hitler's statements and themes. Especially racial hatred.

Wandrin;1502637 wrote: Has any US president elect ever faced a trial for fraud in between the election and inauguration?


Nope. And I doubt if any ever will. Getting elected confers immunity to that kind of thing. Unless you commit a new crime while in office...

Saint_;1502640 wrote: No, Godwin's Law implies that people will unnecessarily compare someone or something to Hitler or Naziism. Comparing Trump to Hitler is necessary, since he parallels Hitler's statements and themes. Especially racial hatred.


If that were so, everyone who ever made such comparisons would claim your get-out clause. The law is only useful if it's absolute.

Godwin's law recognizes there's no possibility of reasoned discussion if anyone takes that extreme position - in other words, whether it's a true allegation or not it can't be made, because it stops further steps toward a consensus.

Arent there any other despots to compare him with?

Saint_;1502641 wrote: Nope. And I doubt if any ever will. Getting elected confers immunity to that kind of thing. Unless you commit a new crime while in office...


There has been the court case for Trump University fraud that the judge allowed to be postponed until after the election. Now his lawyers are trying to get it postponed until after the inauguration, but the judge has not yet ruled.

For those who may have missed it, Donald Trump's potential Presidency was discussed by the House of Commons sitting in Westminster Hall earlier this year.

There's a transcript of the debate at House of Commons Hansard Debates for 18 Jan 2016 (pt 0001)

As background, a half million UK citizens had petitioned Parliament to ban Donald Trump from entry to the UK.Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con): We have to be alive to the possibility that this ridiculous individual—that is, Mr Trump—may be elected as President of the United States. In that event, would such a ban be overturned?



So, here are a few scattered quotes:



Tommy Sheppard (Edinburgh East) (SNP): The hon. Gentleman is coming down on one side of the argument to say that Mr Trump should not be banned from entering this country. Are we not in a unique position here? I cannot think, in my lifetime, of another senior politician in America or anywhere else wishing the Government of their country to deny our citizens in the United Kingdom free international movement because of their religion. If the hon. Gentleman is to take the position that he seems to be taking, may I ask him: what would be an appropriate response by this country to the United States of America to protect the people we represent?Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab): People often say that the public are apathetic about politics. This petition, signed by nearly 600,000 people, shows that when people feel a sense of justice—when they feel that we need to stop a poisonous, corrosive man from entering our country—they will act in good conscience. We are not talking about just any man. This is a man with an extremely high profile who has been involved in the American show-business industry for years—a man who is now interviewing for the most important job in the world. His words are not comical. His words are not funny. His words are poisonous and risk inflaming tensions between vulnerable communities.



Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con): we cannot translate American politics to UK politics, which is completely different. I was in a debate earlier this year on full fiscal autonomy for Scotland, and the Labour spokesman described me as an extreme right winger — God forbid. My amendment was supported by the shadow Chancellor when he was a Back Bencher; whether he is an extreme right winger, I do not know. As it happens, I am strongly in favour of gun control; I voted consistently against bombing Syria and invading Iraq; I am strongly in favour of the NHS, which I use exclusively; and I oppose capital punishment—would I survive in the Republican party? Nevertheless, I am told that I am an extreme right winger. US and UK politics are completely different, and it would be a great mistake to try to translate them.

Saint_;1502640 wrote: No, Godwin's Law implies that people will unnecessarily compare someone or something to Hitler or Naziism. Comparing Trump to Hitler is necessary, since he parallels Hitler's statements and themes. Especially racial hatred.


Where has Mr. Trump ever advocated creating concentration camps, denying citizens or any persons their civil rights?

Where has he proposed persecution of any group of people based on their race or religion?

He never has encourage actions which can be compared to Kristallnacht. I would call the recent riots more in line with the night of broken glass.

Trump has nothing compared to the SA, Sturmabteilung.

I could go on.

Perhaps someone could tell me whether the final sentence here qualifies as a death threat - I can't see any other way of interpreting the words.What makes me cautiously optimistic about my successor and the shift from campaign to governance is there is something about the solemn responsibilities of that office, the extraordinary demands that are placed on the United States not just by its own people but by people around the world, that forces you to focus, Obama said.

“That demands seriousness. And if you’re not serious about the job, then you probably won’t be there very long.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... -russia“

It sounds like an observation to me, rather than a death threat.

You think it is a prediction of an assassination, then?

There's plenty of talk about whether he'll see out the whole term because pf incompetance ....not death.

He doesnt even want to move into the white house. Lars has mentioned before that he has a lot to learn. I think he'll not ne able to handle not being his own man.

And he keeps saying stupid stuff. He wants Australia to get involved in the south China sea crap.

Yeah sure, trumpy! We'll go to war with China for you!

Like hell we will!

No, nothing like that, Spot. If the job is overwhelming to Trump, the chances are that he will quit and give the job to Pence. If Trump remains and doesn't get things done, the Republicans like to talk about impeaching. They even talked about holding immediate impeachment hearings if Hillary was elected.

Wandrin;1502741 wrote: No, nothing like that, Spot. If the job is overwhelming to Trump, the chances are that he will quit and give the job to Pence. If Trump remains and doesn't get things done, the Republicans like to talk about impeaching. They even talked about holding immediate impeachment hearings if Hillary was elected.


I never heard Rethuglicans "like" to talk about impeaching other Rethuglicans.

magentaflame;1502738 wrote: There's plenty of talk about whether he'll see out the whole term because pf incompetance ....not death.

He doesnt even want to move into the white house.




Nope. This arrogant ahole would rather screw up NYC traffic & business than help the city he has always helped before. He must move, and the mayor, Bill de Blasio, must make this appeal based on Trump's former good works to the city. He had many good works, so he must stop the harm he is causing.

AnneBoleyn;1502746 wrote: I never heard Rethuglicans "like" to talk about impeaching other Rethuglicans.


If they wanted to get rid of him, they would simply claim that he wasn't a "real Republican".

Blast your obtuse hide, spot. Of course it's not a death threat. It's the very real threat of impeachment of an incompetent leader. Which America will do and has done, unlike most of "civilized" Europe.



Frankly, spot, I've about had it with your anti-American, chest-pounding, brow-beating, hysterical, illogical, unrealistic,bombastic doom-saying.



You want the world to go to Hell just so you can have the pathetic self-satisfaction of saying,"I told you so."



America is your favorite scapegoat. According to you, history would have been better if America had never intervened in WWII. Never mind that you most likely owe your very existence to us, we are somehow to blame for everything evil in the world, and none of our accomplishments, from The United Nations, to the moon landing, to medical advancement, or even computers, which you use to type your denigrations, count a bit towards redemption in your skewed view.



Is it jealousy or some personal slight that motivates your venomous attitude towards everything American?



Well, frankly Scarlett, I don't give a damn.



You pretend to offer opinions as to what America should do. The truth is that nothing, not even your own pseudo-advice would ever really make you happy with us. Admit it...you hate America, period.

Saint_;1502751 wrote: Blast your obtuse hide, spot. Of course it's not a death threat. It's the very real threat of impeachment of an incompetent leader. Which America will do and has done, unlike most of "civilized" EuropeWith a Republican majority in both houses of Congress it's hard to imagine that a Democrat President can feasibly threaten his Republican successor with impeachment, that's all. The natural meaning of the words " if you’re not serious about the job, then you probably won’t be there very long" is that he'll die soon after taking office if he fails to remain focused. All I'm doing is reeding the words used, nothing else.





Is it jealousy or some personal slight that motivates your venomous attitude towards everything American?

It's because successive American administrations have caused the death and destitution of more people on this planet than any other country has come even slightly close to. It's a good reason to despise American administrations. It's clearly not a reason to be proud of being American. A country doesn't redeem its honor merely by being at the cusp of technological innovation, not with a track record of destruction like that.

Here you are - from today's Guardian:There is no beating about the bush. Nothing in the history of this benighted region, no brutal king, no imperial satrap, no Ba’athist rogue, initiated anything as horrific as what came in the train of George W Bush’s 2003 invasion of Iraq. By deliberately destroying order and government in Baghdad and sowing chaos, the American and British invaders created a hell on Earth. There is no truer maxim than that a lifetime of tyranny is better than a week of anarchy.

In the name of “western values, hundreds of thousands have been killed and millions driven from their homes. Those values have wiped out the oldest Christian community in the world. Every church in Mosul has been demolished. And all to appease Bush’s lust for revenge against Saddam Hussein’s humiliation of his father – and Tony Blair’s infatuation with Bush. At least Donald Trump has rightly called it a war crime.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... estruction



According to you, history would have been better if America had never intervened in WWII.


Intervened militarily in Europe? Definitely, it had no effect on the overall outcome. The war in the Pacific was a US invention from the start, I definitely blame the US for that - it started with the annexation of the Philippines.

History would have been better if America had never intervened in WWI, the whole of the Second World War was a direct attributable consequence of that Allied victory in 1918. Every death in World War Two, military and civilian, would have been avoided had the US sat out the first.

posted by spot

Intervened militarily in Europe? Definitely, it had no effect on the overall outcome. The war in the Pacific was a US invention from the start, I definitely blame the US for that - it started with the annexation of the Philippines.

History would have been better if America had never intervened in WWI, the whole of the Second World War was a direct attributable consequence of that Allied victory in 1918. Every death in World War Two, military and civilian, would have been avoided had the US sat out the first.


You do talk a load of bollocks sometimes. Actually in terms of imperial bahaviour towards conquered peoples america is no worse or better than any other empire. The us got involved in ww1 because of it's own political and ecopnomic interests just like everyone else. What really brought them in was finding out the germans were trying to persuade mexico to invade the us, It was also what set them on the path to becoming a world superpower up until then they had a weak hand in the great game. They only got the phillipinesand and had any influence in latin america because the spanish had been emasculated as a world power by then.

World War 1 Strange Facts: How Mexico Almost Made An Alliance With Germany Against The US!

BBC iWonder - How did Germany try to use Mexico to keep the US out of WW1?

The one thing about remembrance day most politicians would like us to forget is it was a popular movement to comemorate those who died and to remember the pointless stupidity and waste caused by blind patriotism and it should nevr happen again. Wishful thinking I think.

The stark reality is that for most of world history europe has been a backwater it was only us indistrialising first that changed all that giving us a technological advantage w've now lost the US didn't feature at all. Now europe is on it's way back to being a backwater in world events china russia and the us are the main players now, we live in intereting times do we not.

gmc;1502754 wrote: You do talk a load of bollocks sometimes.You think there's a reasonable route by which a recognizable form of World War Two would have happened, had the German Axis won the Great War? A Fascist-governed Germany by the end of the 1930s? I'd be interested to know why you think that. All the pressures which led to the rise of Fascism in Germany would have been entirely absent.