Bruv;1458776 wrote: Yes thats what I meant......thank you
Not PETA ?
Why not ask Bensons and Hedges about cigarettes ?
I still reckon it's debateable.......wholesale streamlined animal slaughter is a brutal trade.......as soon as the Inspectors are out the door.
I am talking about the principle of allowing different religions exemptions from the law.
You focus on everything other than the solution to the problem.......the distribution problem.
You want non stunned labelled? (Correct my spelling of labeled if you wish)
Sort out the distributors, keep the two streams of supply seperate.
Do you mean Separate ?
Distribution problems?
It starts with demand. No demand, no contract to supply. No contract to supply, no distribution.
The two streams of supply being kept separate ie non stun and stun can not exist without Individual labelling ... Only with clear labelling can the consumer make a choice... If the choice Is to boycott non stun, the demand drops. That's what I was advised this morning... go for the labelling first... decrease demand.
Today's demand and distribution Is the outcome of non stun and stun not being labelled.
Religious Slaughter
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Oscar Namechange
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Religious Slaughter
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Namechange;1458778 wrote:
Today's demand and distribution Is the outcome of non stun and stun not being labelled.
Rearrange that sentence for me will you......into something that is meaningfull (with two L's)
Today's demand and distribution Is the outcome of non stun and stun not being labelled.
Rearrange that sentence for me will you......into something that is meaningfull (with two L's)
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1458780 wrote: Rearrange that sentence for me will you......into something that is meaningfull (with two L's) FFS
You go Into a supermarket. In front of you are 3 packs of Sirloin steak. One says British Beef slaughtered to regs and laws. The second says ' Stunned Halal'. the third says ' Non Stun Halal.
You have a choice of the three. People who do not want to buy and consume non stun boycott It... demand drops. Supply drops. Distribution drops.
Until we have that clear labelling, we do not have that choice.
You go Into a supermarket. In front of you are 3 packs of Sirloin steak. One says British Beef slaughtered to regs and laws. The second says ' Stunned Halal'. the third says ' Non Stun Halal.
You have a choice of the three. People who do not want to buy and consume non stun boycott It... demand drops. Supply drops. Distribution drops.
Until we have that clear labelling, we do not have that choice.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Namechange;1458781 wrote: FFS
You go Into a supermarket. In front of you are 3 packs of Sirloin steak. One says British Beef slaughtered to regs and laws. The second says ' Stunned Halal'. the third says ' Non Stun Halal.
You have a choice of the three. People who do not want to buy and consume non stun boycott It... demand drops. Supply drops. Distribution drops.
Until we have that clear labelling, we do not have that choice.Conversely it promotes it to those who would like ritual meat, but might otherwise avoid the non-labeled products due to being unsure about it.
Remove the choice altogether & enforce regulation humane methods. If they don't like it - tough.
You go Into a supermarket. In front of you are 3 packs of Sirloin steak. One says British Beef slaughtered to regs and laws. The second says ' Stunned Halal'. the third says ' Non Stun Halal.
You have a choice of the three. People who do not want to buy and consume non stun boycott It... demand drops. Supply drops. Distribution drops.
Until we have that clear labelling, we do not have that choice.Conversely it promotes it to those who would like ritual meat, but might otherwise avoid the non-labeled products due to being unsure about it.
Remove the choice altogether & enforce regulation humane methods. If they don't like it - tough.
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Namechange;1458781 wrote: FFS
You go Into a supermarket. In front of you are 3 packs of Sirloin steak. One says British Beef slaughtered to regs and laws. The second says ' Stunned Halal'. the third says ' Non Stun Halal.
You have a choice of the three. People who do not want to buy and consume non stun boycott It... demand drops. Supply drops. Distribution drops.
Until we have that clear labelling, we do not have that choice.
Double FFS.......
YOUR argument went along the lines that ALL halal should be stunned, and that ALL halal should never go unlabeled so as to mix with non halal, as this would offend all the upstanding Christians.
There is normally an halal section, the problem I thought we were talking about, was when halal meat crossed into non halal supplies.
I would NEVER buy halal stunned or not, most non muslims wouldn't either, although they might complain (if like horse meat) you were supplied halal as a substitute, duped into buying it.
So......we are talking of two different markets that should be kept seperate (fill yer boots) persay....perce.....por favor.
Then you came along and wanted stunned and non stunned labeled, so humane muslims could choose......muddying the bleeding waters again.
But of course I probably got it wrong.
You go Into a supermarket. In front of you are 3 packs of Sirloin steak. One says British Beef slaughtered to regs and laws. The second says ' Stunned Halal'. the third says ' Non Stun Halal.
You have a choice of the three. People who do not want to buy and consume non stun boycott It... demand drops. Supply drops. Distribution drops.
Until we have that clear labelling, we do not have that choice.
Double FFS.......
YOUR argument went along the lines that ALL halal should be stunned, and that ALL halal should never go unlabeled so as to mix with non halal, as this would offend all the upstanding Christians.
There is normally an halal section, the problem I thought we were talking about, was when halal meat crossed into non halal supplies.
I would NEVER buy halal stunned or not, most non muslims wouldn't either, although they might complain (if like horse meat) you were supplied halal as a substitute, duped into buying it.
So......we are talking of two different markets that should be kept seperate (fill yer boots) persay....perce.....por favor.
Then you came along and wanted stunned and non stunned labeled, so humane muslims could choose......muddying the bleeding waters again.
But of course I probably got it wrong.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1458800 wrote: Double FFS.......
YOUR argument went along the lines that ALL halal should be stunned, and that ALL halal should never go unlabeled so as to mix with non halal, as this would offend all the upstanding Christians.
There is normally an halal section, the problem I thought we were talking about, was when halal meat crossed into non halal supplies.
I would NEVER buy halal stunned or not, most non muslims wouldn't either, although they might complain (if like horse meat) you were supplied halal as a substitute, duped into buying it.
So......we are talking of two different markets that should be kept seperate (fill yer boots) persay....perce.....por favor.
Then you came along and wanted stunned and non stunned labeled, so humane muslims could choose......muddying the bleeding waters again.
But of course I probably got it wrong. Yes you have got It wrong but maybe I haven't made myself clear enough.
I'll start from the beginning.
When I first started my E Petition, there were already other E petitions live that covered animal welfare aspect only. Another covered the religious aspect etc.
Due to terms and conditions, you can not repeat an existing E Petition that's currently live as It will be rejected. I started with a petition covering only the animal welfare side and It was rejected because there was already one live.
So I re-worded It to get It accepted and covered the animal welfare, the religious aspect and the ambiguity.
Myself personally, I want all slaughterhouses who do not adhere to slaughter regulations and UK law shut down. Until such time that a minority religion Is taken out of slaughterhouses that supply the masses, I want all Halal slaughter houses shut down until they are entirely neutral because believe It or not, other minorities In the UK are also offended that their food Is blessed In the name of a religion that only see's one god... their god.... and a god that Is seeing so many atrocities throughout the Middle East In the name of that god.
Having done a huge amount of research even having to stomach the experience of watching non stun slaughter houses In action, that Is my end goal.
However, same as when we set about Fox Hunting bans, these things can take decades. Rather than wait decades for the people of this country to become more aware and wake up, you have to start somewhere and you have to be willing to compromise In order to gain what you want by stealth.
I listened to the politician yesterday who agreed that most of the country are In the dark over non stun and Halal meat. Many people don't even know that Halal Is blessed In the name of Allah as the animal dies.
Regardless, my petition got over 10,000 sigs which was enough to get me a debate with someone who was able to offer me further advice although I do have experience of running campaigns from the Fox Hunting days.
His advice was that It was highly unlikely that any government will shut down all Halal houses until religion Is taken out of the equation for various reasons. He advised that as the question of labelling had already been raised In the House Of Commons, this was the best route to take FIRST. So he believes more media attention, more awareness Into non stun may force another vote very soon and not decades away. If we can get all meat clearly labelled and the population begins to see non stun labelled on meat, then as a nation of animal lovers, people simply will not buy It and we're talking about the masses not 4 million of a minority. With that the demand could and probably will, with the awareness campaign drop the demand. Once the demand has dropped, we can then set about the other aspects.
Clear ?
YOUR argument went along the lines that ALL halal should be stunned, and that ALL halal should never go unlabeled so as to mix with non halal, as this would offend all the upstanding Christians.
There is normally an halal section, the problem I thought we were talking about, was when halal meat crossed into non halal supplies.
I would NEVER buy halal stunned or not, most non muslims wouldn't either, although they might complain (if like horse meat) you were supplied halal as a substitute, duped into buying it.
So......we are talking of two different markets that should be kept seperate (fill yer boots) persay....perce.....por favor.
Then you came along and wanted stunned and non stunned labeled, so humane muslims could choose......muddying the bleeding waters again.
But of course I probably got it wrong. Yes you have got It wrong but maybe I haven't made myself clear enough.
I'll start from the beginning.
When I first started my E Petition, there were already other E petitions live that covered animal welfare aspect only. Another covered the religious aspect etc.
Due to terms and conditions, you can not repeat an existing E Petition that's currently live as It will be rejected. I started with a petition covering only the animal welfare side and It was rejected because there was already one live.
So I re-worded It to get It accepted and covered the animal welfare, the religious aspect and the ambiguity.
Myself personally, I want all slaughterhouses who do not adhere to slaughter regulations and UK law shut down. Until such time that a minority religion Is taken out of slaughterhouses that supply the masses, I want all Halal slaughter houses shut down until they are entirely neutral because believe It or not, other minorities In the UK are also offended that their food Is blessed In the name of a religion that only see's one god... their god.... and a god that Is seeing so many atrocities throughout the Middle East In the name of that god.
Having done a huge amount of research even having to stomach the experience of watching non stun slaughter houses In action, that Is my end goal.
However, same as when we set about Fox Hunting bans, these things can take decades. Rather than wait decades for the people of this country to become more aware and wake up, you have to start somewhere and you have to be willing to compromise In order to gain what you want by stealth.
I listened to the politician yesterday who agreed that most of the country are In the dark over non stun and Halal meat. Many people don't even know that Halal Is blessed In the name of Allah as the animal dies.
Regardless, my petition got over 10,000 sigs which was enough to get me a debate with someone who was able to offer me further advice although I do have experience of running campaigns from the Fox Hunting days.
His advice was that It was highly unlikely that any government will shut down all Halal houses until religion Is taken out of the equation for various reasons. He advised that as the question of labelling had already been raised In the House Of Commons, this was the best route to take FIRST. So he believes more media attention, more awareness Into non stun may force another vote very soon and not decades away. If we can get all meat clearly labelled and the population begins to see non stun labelled on meat, then as a nation of animal lovers, people simply will not buy It and we're talking about the masses not 4 million of a minority. With that the demand could and probably will, with the awareness campaign drop the demand. Once the demand has dropped, we can then set about the other aspects.
Clear ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
So......you think there is a demand for halal meat outside of muslims?
I don't.
Some people might try it for a change, might stop using it if the knew it wasn't stunned.......but the demand from muslims will not decrease.
I don't.
Some people might try it for a change, might stop using it if the knew it wasn't stunned.......but the demand from muslims will not decrease.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1458846 wrote: So......you think there is a demand for halal meat outside of muslims?
I don't.
Some people might try it for a change, might stop using it if the knew it wasn't stunned.......but the demand from muslims will not decrease.
Jews do not buy Halal meat, Hindu's don't want to, Sikh's don't want to, Atheists don't want to, the weird guy living down the lane In Rotherham who thinks we descended from aliens doesn't want to... Muslims are a 4 million minority.
Halal Is In all or most supermarket chains and take-outs and In schools, nursing homes, some hospitals and prisons. It's got there unlabelled and by clandestine methods.
If It's clearly labelled, the majority Including other ethnic minorities have a choice. If that choice Is to boycott It, then the demand drops back to the 4 million minority. If that's done then we can set about the rest In the future.
I don't.
Some people might try it for a change, might stop using it if the knew it wasn't stunned.......but the demand from muslims will not decrease.
Jews do not buy Halal meat, Hindu's don't want to, Sikh's don't want to, Atheists don't want to, the weird guy living down the lane In Rotherham who thinks we descended from aliens doesn't want to... Muslims are a 4 million minority.
Halal Is In all or most supermarket chains and take-outs and In schools, nursing homes, some hospitals and prisons. It's got there unlabelled and by clandestine methods.
If It's clearly labelled, the majority Including other ethnic minorities have a choice. If that choice Is to boycott It, then the demand drops back to the 4 million minority. If that's done then we can set about the rest In the future.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
The DEMAND would not decrease, but the SUPPLY would.
I have a devout Muslim friend who, although not exactly bright at the best of times, doesn't have the first idea about how Halal meat is slaughtered & firmly believes that it is done exactly the same way as all others, except for the blessing at the time of death. If you try to tell him otherwise he just goes into full denial mode.
If your ePetition is still live, post the URL - I'll check it out & will probably sign it (unlike others who sign petitions willy-nilly, I won't sign them until I've read them & actually agree with them).
I have a devout Muslim friend who, although not exactly bright at the best of times, doesn't have the first idea about how Halal meat is slaughtered & firmly believes that it is done exactly the same way as all others, except for the blessing at the time of death. If you try to tell him otherwise he just goes into full denial mode.
If your ePetition is still live, post the URL - I'll check it out & will probably sign it (unlike others who sign petitions willy-nilly, I won't sign them until I've read them & actually agree with them).
Religious Slaughter
Im sorry I must live in a parallel universe.
In every local super market I have ever visited, halal meat has a section of it's own, same as organic veg, gluten free etc etc all clearly labeled......with at least a little mark up.
In every local super market I have ever visited, halal meat has a section of it's own, same as organic veg, gluten free etc etc all clearly labeled......with at least a little mark up.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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High Threshold
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Religious Slaughter
Oscar Namechange;1458774 wrote: I bet the proportion of Sikh's draining resources from the NHS following a motor bike crash Is far less than the twats who get stranded up some Scottish Mountain they decided to scale wearing flip flops.
Those damned sherpas just don't know how to dress for the right occasion!
Those damned sherpas just don't know how to dress for the right occasion!
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Oscar Namechange
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Religious Slaughter
One down.... now we're coming for the rest of you
Breaking News!! Skegness Halal Slaughterhouse Forced Closure | Regional News | British National Party
Breaking News!! Skegness Halal Slaughterhouse Forced Closure | Regional News | British National Party
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
No comment ..........on the Tue, 20/08/2013 Breaking News......that.....On 17 August 2013 The Heath Road Halal Abattoir was forced to close due to the persistent non payment of rent
However, a member of management for the halal slaughterhouse has claimed business will be ‘back to normal’ tomorrow
However, a member of management for the halal slaughterhouse has claimed business will be ‘back to normal’ tomorrow
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Religious Slaughter
According to this report the slaughterhaouse was not closed as it was never even opened.
National Front plans 'peaceful' protest against Halal slaughterhouse in Skegness | East Lindsey Target
Either way - good job too. As far as I'm concerned, anyone whos objects to the humane slaughter of animals, without the barbarity of ritual torture have the choice of going vegetarian.
National Front plans 'peaceful' protest against Halal slaughterhouse in Skegness | East Lindsey Target
Either way - good job too. As far as I'm concerned, anyone whos objects to the humane slaughter of animals, without the barbarity of ritual torture have the choice of going vegetarian.
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Oscar Namechange
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Religious Slaughter
FourPart;1467203 wrote: According to this report the slaughterhaouse was not closed as it was never even opened.
National Front plans 'peaceful' protest against Halal slaughterhouse in Skegness | East Lindsey Target
Either way - good job too. As far as I'm concerned, anyone whos objects to the humane slaughter of animals, without the barbarity of ritual torture have the choice of going vegetarian.
Stuff the National Front.... Our boys did It the right way.... Investigating the debts and using that.... there's always a paper trail
National Front plans 'peaceful' protest against Halal slaughterhouse in Skegness | East Lindsey Target
Either way - good job too. As far as I'm concerned, anyone whos objects to the humane slaughter of animals, without the barbarity of ritual torture have the choice of going vegetarian.
Stuff the National Front.... Our boys did It the right way.... Investigating the debts and using that.... there's always a paper trail
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
My point is that it can't have been closed if it never opened in the first place. It was previously an standard abattoir, and had plans to reopen as a Halal slaughterhouse for which, it seems, permission had (initially) been granted, but they (Premier Meats) went into liquidation, with unpaid wages outstanding, before they could get started.
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Oscar Namechange
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Religious Slaughter
FourPart;1467209 wrote: My point is that it can't have been closed if it never opened in the first place. It was previously an standard abattoir, and had plans to reopen as a Halal slaughterhouse for which, it seems, permission had (initially) been granted, but they (Premier Meats) went into liquidation, with unpaid wages outstanding, before they could get started.
I see your point but our point Is, our Party helped stop them carrying on with the practice under a new name with outstanding wages.
I see your point but our point Is, our Party helped stop them carrying on with the practice under a new name with outstanding wages.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Namechange;1467212 wrote: I see your point but our point Is, our Party helped stop them carrying on with the practice under a new name with outstanding wages.
That's damn nice of you.
But......but.....but.....who allegedly closed the alleged slaughterhouse ?
Was it the BNP,or the Bailiffs ?
Don't be shy now.............lets hear the unvarnished truth
That's damn nice of you.
But......but.....but.....who allegedly closed the alleged slaughterhouse ?
Was it the BNP,or the Bailiffs ?
Don't be shy now.............lets hear the unvarnished truth
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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Religious Slaughter
Sigh
You really have no Idea of what we do behind the scenes do you ? We follow paper trials.
A bit like the 20 page dossier just handed In to Dagenham police with evidence of ( alleged ) corruption In their education system... It'll take a few months to be processed and you won't see a word In the tabloids as to who the whistle blower was... but the evidence Is here In our receipt...
Thats what we do... follow paper trails and present evidence. If the evidence causes Council's to act... fine, let them take the credit... but we get the evidence first.
Attached files
You really have no Idea of what we do behind the scenes do you ? We follow paper trials.
A bit like the 20 page dossier just handed In to Dagenham police with evidence of ( alleged ) corruption In their education system... It'll take a few months to be processed and you won't see a word In the tabloids as to who the whistle blower was... but the evidence Is here In our receipt...
Thats what we do... follow paper trails and present evidence. If the evidence causes Council's to act... fine, let them take the credit... but we get the evidence first.
Attached files
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Namechange;1467218 wrote: Sigh
You really have no Idea of what we do behind the scenes do you ? We follow paper trials.
A bit like the 20 page dossier just handed In to Dagenham police with evidence of ( alleged ) corruption In their education system... It'll take a few months to be processed and you won't see a word In the tabloids as to who the whistle blower was... but the evidence Is here In our receipt...
Thats what we do... follow paper trails and present evidence. If the evidence causes Council's to act... fine, let them take the credit... but we get the evidence first.
Only thing I can make out on that is Dagenham, I know Dangenham is nowhere near Skegness..........so what about the bleeding slaughterhouse ?
Stop making smoke screens and answer the question as asked.
You really have no Idea of what we do behind the scenes do you ? We follow paper trials.
A bit like the 20 page dossier just handed In to Dagenham police with evidence of ( alleged ) corruption In their education system... It'll take a few months to be processed and you won't see a word In the tabloids as to who the whistle blower was... but the evidence Is here In our receipt...
Thats what we do... follow paper trails and present evidence. If the evidence causes Council's to act... fine, let them take the credit... but we get the evidence first.
Only thing I can make out on that is Dagenham, I know Dangenham is nowhere near Skegness..........so what about the bleeding slaughterhouse ?
Stop making smoke screens and answer the question as asked.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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Religious Slaughter
Bruv;1467221 wrote: Only thing I can make out on that is Dagenham, I know Dangenham is nowhere near Skegness..........so what about the bleeding slaughterhouse ?
Stop making smoke screens and answer the question as asked. It's chicken and egg Isn't It ? If the Party helps by gathering the paper work to prove wages went unpaid and debts have been racked up, then the authorities act on that or the house closes due to the scrutiny, who cares who takes the credit? The ultimate aim has been achieved.
Stop making smoke screens and answer the question as asked. It's chicken and egg Isn't It ? If the Party helps by gathering the paper work to prove wages went unpaid and debts have been racked up, then the authorities act on that or the house closes due to the scrutiny, who cares who takes the credit? The ultimate aim has been achieved.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Religious Slaughter
The receipt date shows 1st November, yet the company was officially dissolved on 6th October.
PREMIER HALAL LTD - Free Company Check
PREMIER HALAL LTD - Free Company Check
Religious Slaughter
Oscar Namechange;1467222 wrote: It's chicken and egg Isn't It ? If the Party helps by gathering the paper work to prove wages went unpaid and debts have been racked up, then the authorities act on that or the house closes due to the scrutiny, who cares who takes the credit? The ultimate aim has been achieved.
Nothing to do with chickens or eggs......what are you on about now?
So without the marvelous work of the BNP......the bailiffs can't do their job ?
All the suppliers were happy with the situation until the BNP came along ?
Nothing to do with chickens or eggs......what are you on about now?
So without the marvelous work of the BNP......the bailiffs can't do their job ?
All the suppliers were happy with the situation until the BNP came along ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Religious Slaughter
FourPart;1467225 wrote: The receipt date shows 1st November, yet the company was officially dissolved on 6th October.
PREMIER HALAL LTD - Free Company Check
No no no....(keep up).......this is something else we have to be thankful to the vigilance of the BNP for.
PREMIER HALAL LTD - Free Company Check
No no no....(keep up).......this is something else we have to be thankful to the vigilance of the BNP for.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Peter Lake
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Religious Slaughter
Parliament debates kosher and halal slaughtering methods | The Jewish Chronicle
I have a feeling this was the Tory chap who contacted Oscar when her petition reached 10,000
Parliament debates kosher and halal slaughtering methods | The Jewish Chronicle
I have a feeling this was the Tory chap who contacted Oscar when her petition reached 10,000
Parliament debates kosher and halal slaughtering methods | The Jewish Chronicle