It is not just another story. These stories present profound truths about Jesus and about God. Though they are not historical is immaterial. What is important is what they mean.
As far as astronomiers trying to find a "star" that was around then the scholars are not too keen on accepting the so called evidence. All I can say is that when I look up into the sky at night, on a clear night of course LOL, I see thousands of stars knowing that there are billions. Some are bright and some are dim. They become possibilities and as such are not proofs.
As I say, regardless of the history or lack thereof, it is the meanings of the stories that are important.
Shalom
Ted:-6
that's assuming jesus was an actual person, and not a made-up person to create another means of controlling people. :-4
charles_r51 wrote: life on this earth is nothing more, nor less than, attending a school. we learn and grow. then we die, pass ovewr, return and wide up back in class. anything else is of no value. if you learn, you go on to the next lesson, if not, you repeat the grade until you have learned the lesson. i neither accept nor reject an7y idea, but i do choose which i face, and which i turn away from. whether i am right or wrong is nothing but the product of what i have learned up to that point. i make mistakes as does everyone, but i don't place the blame for my failures on anyone but myself. as for what is in the bible, some is historically accurate, much is make believe. as for the rest, i find one meaning one day, and another the next. i don't assume someone else is right or wrong, but i have my own ideas, some i share, others i don't but still some i choose to keep rto myself, while letting others have their own ideas in spite of whaqt they think. i'm not a scholar by any means, but neither do i take everything at face value, or without question. it's an interesting book, but that's all it is , a book edited for content by who knows how many, and can't be taken as aything but that.:-4
Thanks Charles
I like honesty, up front. I figure I can live quite peacefully with anybody who can live peacefully with me. I feel no need to push my beliefs on someone else and I can see that you are content with your beliefs. Most Christians want to save all those who are not Christian, an honorable undertaking. I would get reprimanded for not feeling that way but I am what I am. I enjoy you Dr. Charles:) :-6 :-4
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
I like honesty, up front. I figure I can live quite peacefully with anybody who can live peacefully with me. I feel no need to push my beliefs on someone else and I can see that you are content with your beliefs. Most Christians want to save all those who are not Christian, an honorable undertaking. I would get reprimanded for not feeling that way but I am what I am. I enjoy you Dr. Charles:) :-6 :-4
reprimanded? no. but you would be kicked out of the church. seems they just don't like us independent thinker types. questioning their dogmas and such just does't sit too well with most "true believers". they prefer more pliable personalities that will be more easily "taught" the true way. i'm too strong-willed to be led along like some sheep to the slaughter, so to speek.
(it's more fun too. i can start an argument and watch the fireworks
charles_r51 wrote: reprimanded? no. but you would be kicked out of the church. seems they just don't like us independent thinker types. questioning their dogmas and such just does't sit too well with most "true believers". they prefer more pliable personalities that will be more easily "taught" the true way. i'm too strong-willed to be led along like some sheep to the slaughter, so to speek.
(it's more fun too. i can start an argument and watch the fireworks
Charles. You are a perisher. I enjoy doing that myself.
I I feel no need to push my beliefs on someone else and I can see that you are content with your beliefs. Most Christians want to save all those who are not Christian,
But it is a central tenet of Christianity that you must 'push your beliefs'. Go and be fishers of men, was the instruction; the object being to bring others to salvation.
It is impossible to be a Christian and passive at the same time. The two are contradictions in terms.
Apparently many of the world's top scholars have no problem with the historical Jesus having been a living human entity.
I also see here a lack of understanding of the emerging Christian way. I cannot speak for the Anglican Church in England or any other church there for that matter. My experiences with the church are not of the traditional orthodoxy. I can and am comfortable living with it and have no problem with those who do. That being said I have found the Anglican Church of Canada very open to a great diversity of thought and scholarship. It is far from being a closed shop.
We are constantly progressing; a new Book of Common Prayer, the ordination of women, the inclusive acceptance alternate sexual orientations is spreading, our theology is progressing and developing based on newer understandings based on science and our human experience and so on.
We are also very actively working with our First Nations to bring about reconciliation for past errors and subsequent healing realizing that we had no right to interfere with their culture or their systems of spirituality. We are in the process of accepting their traditional faiths as bona fide experiences of the Divine and encourage them to sek to recover them wherever possible.
That we can't be a Christian unless we run around proselytizing is simply no longer true. We live in a multicultural world and we are working or accepting pluralism in its true meaning. We are learning to accept the fact that all of the great faiths are valid expressions of their experiences of theDivine.
Our missionaries go to help not to convert.
This of course does not fit all of our denominations but it is spreading. The fundamentalists will probably never change in my lifetime.
William Ess wrote: But it is a central tenet of Christianity that you must 'push your beliefs'. Go and be fishers of men, was the instruction; the object being to bring others to salvation.
It is impossible to be a Christian and passive at the same time. The two are contradictions in terms.
One does not have push ones religion to prove anything. I do not push my beliefs and I certainly am not passive. When Christ said go forth and be fishers of men, most people needed to be found as Christianity had just begun.. Today I find it rather repulsive to have Christian people pushing other Christian people, obviously not to be Christian but the be their religion. I find that repulsive. Now if Christians went to pushing people who had none, that would be different. On the internet, what I see is peoople jockeying for position of their own churches. I really don't think that is what Christ was talking about.
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
My take on the Second Coming is that He is already here, just not discovered yet. And why do I say that. Just because I think His Second Coming will commence the same as the first. Now I am likely way off base, but I like the idea, sort of like be nice cuz you're never too sure who you are talking with.:-6
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
My take on the Second Coming is that He is already here, just not discovered yet. And why do I say that. Just because I think His Second Coming will commence the same as the first. Now I am likely way off base, but I like the idea, sort of like be nice cuz you're never too sure who you are talking with.:-6
your right about that. he's the one wearing the white robes, has long , stringy hair, a handlebar mustach (well waxed) and long beard. i saw him last week and he told me he was in disguiae until next tuesday.
charles_r51 wrote: is it as much fun for you as it is for me? only some folks get rather upset if i say too much, but that's the point!:D :-4 :-4
I used to thoroughly enjoy bible studies with the Jehovah's Witnesses. They'd try everything to get me to see things their way. We had regular arguments about the contents of their briefcases in contrast to what Jesus told his disciples to take. And that was the least of it. They gave up on me in the end which was such a shame because I enjoyed the sessions.
charles_r51 wrote: your right about that. he's the one wearing the white robes, has long , stringy hair, a handlebar mustach (well waxed) and long beard. i saw him last week and he told me he was in disguiae until next tuesday.
That's no disguise Charles. There's hundreds of those fellows milling around these days. They're called hippies. LOL You makin' fun of me:p :p
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
OpenMind wrote: I used to thoroughly enjoy bible studies with the Jehovah's Witnesses. They'd try everything to get me to see things their way. We had regular arguments about the contents of their briefcases in contrast to what Jesus told his disciples to take. And that was the least of it. They gave up on me in the end which was such a shame because I enjoyed the sessions.
OM
You shouldn't taunt those poor lovely JWs who tried to steal my brain when I wasn't looking. You should do much worse. :-3
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
I never let them past the door but one Saturday morning many years ago I kept the discussion going for 2 hrs which really pissed my wife off. There were two fellows one young and one older. When the younger one started to ask me questions the older one decided it was time to leave. I almost had one. You've heard about the one that got away. That was him. LOL
One I haven't done yet is to pretend to be Jewish and ask them how dare they try to tell me to read my own book. That should be a hoot too.
Alas the condo we live in has a secure door system and no one here lets them in at all. I do kinda miss the fun at times. LOL.
OpenMind wrote: I used to thoroughly enjoy bible studies with the Jehovah's Witnesses. They'd try everything to get me to see things their way. We had regular arguments about the contents of their briefcases in contrast to what Jesus told his disciples to take. And that was the least of it. They gave up on me in the end which was such a shame because I enjoyed the sessions.
i had some come to my door telling me the end was nigh. i told them not to worry cuz jc was already here and not on a cloud. they didn't like that so they left. i still don't know why. did i say something to upset them?:D :-4 :guitarist
i may not answer soon since i can't get my mail. the site's on the fritz. that'syahoo for you.
weber wrote: That's no disguise Charles. There's hundreds of those fellows milling around these days. They're called hippies. LOL You makin' fun of me:p :p
and here i thought i had a leg up on the free trip to neverland! oh well, that's par for the course for me. i ain't making fun of you, just the situation!
Ted wrote: I never let them past the door but one Saturday morning many years ago I kept the discussion going for 2 hrs which really pissed my wife off. There were two fellows one young and one older. When the younger one started to ask me questions the older one decided it was time to leave. I almost had one. You've heard about the one that got away. That was him. LOL
One I haven't done yet is to pretend to be Jewish and ask them how dare they try to tell me to read my own book. That should be a hoot too.
Alas the condo we live in has a secure door system and no one here lets them in at all. I do kinda miss the fun at times. LOL.
Shalom
Ted
i had some come to my door once. i told them i was a world famous psychic. they could get away fast enough. seems i scared the bejesus out of 'em. but it was fun, LOL:D
charles_r51 wrote: i had some come to my door telling me the end was nigh. i told them not to worry cuz jc was already here and not on a cloud. they didn't like that so they left. i still don't know why. did i say something to upset them?:D :-4 :guitarist
i may not answer soon since i can't get my mail. the site's on the fritz. that'syahoo for you.
not another end of the world ...i'm still cleaning up from the last one. :wah:
jez prowlin' around and findin' my OM OM gettin' peples all riled up and sneakin' out the back door:wah: 'n how are you my fine feathered/skinned frend?:guitarist
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
jez prowlin' around and findin' my OM OM gettin' peples all riled up and sneakin' out the back door:wah: 'n how are you my fine feathered/skinned frend?:guitarist
As well as ever I am ever going to be, Weber, my friend.
OpenMind wrote: As well as ever I am ever going to be, Weber, my friend. You look kinda furry on top. Doncha ever shave. Can't be a girl cuz no bow. Hi OpenMind. You know I opened my mind one day and all my brains fell out.:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
miriam:yh_flower
Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.
weber wrote: You look kinda furry on top. Doncha ever shave. Can't be a girl cuz no bow. Hi OpenMind. You know I opened my mind one day and all my brains fell out.:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
I put mine in a carrier bag. Then I can leave them at home if I don't need them.
OpenMind wrote: You don't need brains for the second coming. You only need a heart.:-6
what? i thought i had to have bourbon, so i bought some. now i have to go find some hearts.will chicken hearts do, or do i have to have somethimg bigger? do i need more that four or five? i really would like some guidance here.:-5
charles_r51 wrote: what? i thought i had to have bourbon, so i bought some. now i have to go find some hearts.will chicken hearts do, or do i have to have somethimg bigger? do i need more that four or five? i really would like some guidance here.:-5
The one in your chest will do, Charles. It'll go nicely with the rest of you.
charles_r51 wrote: if they're cheap enough, i'll order two, just in case i need the spare. but they have to be prime, xuz i don't like second best. :-4
and please don't use such nasty four letter words like work. it makes me feel bad.
:-4
:-3 
