Is God Real?
Is God Real?
The Bible is mostly midrash. There are some historical bases in some ofd the stories like the flood which is declared a legend. A legend is a story that has a historical basis. IE tmost rivers flood at one time or another. thus the Noah story. Revelation was in fact a rant against the Roman empire. The crucifixion story and the birth naratives come right out of the more ancient writings know as the Old Testament. Yes Jesus was born. His father????? Jesus was crucified but not for the sins of the world but he was seen as a subversive.
Is God Real?
Ted;1511827 wrote: The Bible is mostly midrash. There are some historical bases in some ofd the stories like the flood which is declared a legend. A legend is a story that has a historical basis. IE tmost rivers flood at one time or another. thus the Noah story. Revelation was in fact a rant against the Roman empire. The crucifixion story and the birth naratives come right out of the more ancient writings know as the Old Testament. Yes Jesus was born. His father????? Jesus was crucified but not for the sins of the world but he was seen as a subversive.
I disagree , Jesus died so that all of humanity will have life eternally. But I understand the heavy pressure on a limited finite mind, to accept that we will be infinite. Actually changed from human to something else. Jesus life is so valuable , that his death covered all the sins of created humanity. Really it was the deal of the ages, because none of us deserve it. That's why I like God, he and Jesus have very forgiving hearts.
I know I would not have made it without them. I think this whole thing is quite something. I don't understand much of it ; the mind of God is simply incredible , the things he does are amazing, which is why many have trouble believing it. But their salvation is not based on their beliefs, its based on the beliefs of God himself.
I disagree , Jesus died so that all of humanity will have life eternally. But I understand the heavy pressure on a limited finite mind, to accept that we will be infinite. Actually changed from human to something else. Jesus life is so valuable , that his death covered all the sins of created humanity. Really it was the deal of the ages, because none of us deserve it. That's why I like God, he and Jesus have very forgiving hearts.
I know I would not have made it without them. I think this whole thing is quite something. I don't understand much of it ; the mind of God is simply incredible , the things he does are amazing, which is why many have trouble believing it. But their salvation is not based on their beliefs, its based on the beliefs of God himself.
Is God Real?
I and several scholars many of whom I have studied under do not agree. What does substitutionery theology say about God. It would seem that this God is a blood thirsty monster who needs blood to assuage his petulant behavior. Send his own son as a sacrifice. I find that is demeaning to both God and the historical Jesus of Nazareth.
Is God Real?
Ted;1511857 wrote: I and several scholars many of whom I have studied under do not agree. What does substitutionery theology say about God. It would seem that this God is a blood thirsty monster who needs blood to assuage his petulant behavior. Send his own son as a sacrifice. I find that is demeaning to both God and the historical Jesus of Nazareth.
It is not demeaning when one understands the meaning. Two meanings for the blood; one is " The Bloodline, " it goes directly from Moses to David to Jesus. The second is the " Sacrifice", blood must be" spilled" for the forgiveness of sin. So when Jesus was sacrificed , the " Lamb of God", his blood gave all of created humanity forgiveness of sin. The blood thirsty that you see, is really a magical monster of a great message of eternal salvation. God thirst for the salvation of humanity. I find that incredible good news about God, Jesus and all of us!
It is not demeaning when one understands the meaning. Two meanings for the blood; one is " The Bloodline, " it goes directly from Moses to David to Jesus. The second is the " Sacrifice", blood must be" spilled" for the forgiveness of sin. So when Jesus was sacrificed , the " Lamb of God", his blood gave all of created humanity forgiveness of sin. The blood thirsty that you see, is really a magical monster of a great message of eternal salvation. God thirst for the salvation of humanity. I find that incredible good news about God, Jesus and all of us!
Is God Real?
Mickiel of course I disagree. It is demeaning to Jesus of Nazareth. Some have turned him into a God. That is to totally ignore the very humanity Of Jesus. In that he is remember 2000 years after his crucifixion lists him among the very great human beings of the past. What kind of man does that, To turn this great historical person into God is to insult him grievously. Consider what it does to God. Now some have turned him into a blood thirsty monster who demands a blood sacrifice.d. That makes Him no more than an evil monster. Not good for a God of Love and mercy, who calls for justice and compassion. Does God have a personality problem? .
Is God Real?
Ted;1511890 wrote: Mickiel of course I disagree. It is demeaning to Jesus of Nazareth. Some have turned him into a God. That is to totally ignore the very humanity Of Jesus. In that he is remember 2000 years after his crucifixion lists him among the very great human beings of the past. What kind of man does that, To turn this great historical person into God is to insult him grievously. Consider what it does to God. Now some have turned him into a blood thirsty monster who demands a blood sacrifice.d. That makes Him no more than an evil monster. Not good for a God of Love and mercy, who calls for justice and compassion. Does God have a personality problem? .
It was sin that created the demand for Christ. Jesus is the son of God; the first son of God, nothing had to Turn him into that, he was that from his conception. God demmanded the blood sacrifice from his Son.
It was sin that created the demand for Christ. Jesus is the son of God; the first son of God, nothing had to Turn him into that, he was that from his conception. God demmanded the blood sacrifice from his Son.
Is God Real?
For you to believe that, is fine with me.l I personally think it is nonsense. The word in one of the creeds tells us God is three persons in One. Actually that is a direct misunderstanding of the nature of the writing. "Persons" came from a Greek word that meant mask. So We see in the very human nature of Jesus of Nazareth a manifestation of the true nature of God. God is One only but we have encountered his message in three different ways or if you will in three different masks.
Is God Real?
Ted;1511910 wrote: For you to believe that, is fine with me.l I personally think it is nonsense. The word in one of the creeds tells us God is three persons in One. Actually that is a direct misunderstanding of the nature of the writing. "Persons" came from a Greek word that meant mask. So We see in the very human nature of Jesus of Nazareth a manifestation of the true nature of God. God is One only but we have encountered his message in three different ways or if you will in three different masks.
There is no such thing as the trinity in scripture; that word is an example of some of the manifestations of midrash in the bible, its really in the mind of the reader; No Greek word for " Trinity" exist.
There is no such thing as the trinity in scripture; that word is an example of some of the manifestations of midrash in the bible, its really in the mind of the reader; No Greek word for " Trinity" exist.
Is God Real?
The point being that the word in the creed "God in Three persons" is a mistranslated of the attempt to come tro grips with the concept of trinity. The word used in Greek refers to the masks worn in the theater. We see a manifestation of God in one Jesus of Nazareth, The idea of the Holy Spirit is another way that many have felt the presence of the Divine and of course God is his own representative but the idea of masques helps to explain what is really going. Is God Triune? I don't believe so but I can accept the mask idea. It is another metaphor.. The problem becomes one of how to read and interpret the Bible in light of the reality we know.
Is God Real?
Ted;1511923 wrote: The point being that the word in the creed "God in Three persons" is a mistranslated of the attempt to come tro grips with the concept of trinity. The word used in Greek refers to the masks worn in the theater. We see a manifestation of God in one Jesus of Nazareth, The idea of the Holy Spirit is another way that many have felt the presence of the Divine and of course God is his own representative but the idea of masques helps to explain what is really going. Is God Triune? I don't believe so but I can accept the mask idea. It is another metaphor.. The problem becomes one of how to read and interpret the Bible in light of the reality we know.
I don't accept the concept of a triune God either. This is much closer to what I see myself;
28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God | Mormons in Transition
I don't accept the concept of a triune God either. This is much closer to what I see myself;
28 Biblical Passages Which Explicitly Teach There is Only One God | Mormons in Transition
Is God Real?
Mickiel I to accept that God is One. But I can live with the metaphor of three. Jesus was not God He was a very human man in whom God manifest His/Her, It true nature of love and compassion.
Is God Real?
Ted;1511970 wrote: Mickiel I to accept that God is One. But I can live with the metaphor of three. Jesus was not God He was a very human man in whom God manifest His/Her, It true nature of love and compassion.
There is only one God, but this can get confusing, because there are enough scriptures that seem to label Jesus as a God. In Isaiah 45:21 If you look close, this scripture states God the Father as revealing that there is no God besides him, and Jesus was sitting " Beside him" when he spoke that. That is Christ place, " Besides God." Or right next to him on his throne. So there are scriptures that teach that the Father alone is God. We know Jesus is the " Son of God." In John 5:26 Jesus said the Father has " Life in himself", and he GAVE that life in himself to the Son." Notice that Jesus did not always have this eternal life in himself, he had to be " Given it!" Does a God need to be given anything? But now notice John 1:3, these incredible things said about Christ;" ALL THINGS were made by him, ( Jesus)." Creation is a Godly power. In John 1:9 Jesus is the light in all humans on earth. That is surely a Godly thing.
So I am not clear on just what Jesus is. I suspect he is far greater than we suspect.
There is only one God, but this can get confusing, because there are enough scriptures that seem to label Jesus as a God. In Isaiah 45:21 If you look close, this scripture states God the Father as revealing that there is no God besides him, and Jesus was sitting " Beside him" when he spoke that. That is Christ place, " Besides God." Or right next to him on his throne. So there are scriptures that teach that the Father alone is God. We know Jesus is the " Son of God." In John 5:26 Jesus said the Father has " Life in himself", and he GAVE that life in himself to the Son." Notice that Jesus did not always have this eternal life in himself, he had to be " Given it!" Does a God need to be given anything? But now notice John 1:3, these incredible things said about Christ;" ALL THINGS were made by him, ( Jesus)." Creation is a Godly power. In John 1:9 Jesus is the light in all humans on earth. That is surely a Godly thing.
So I am not clear on just what Jesus is. I suspect he is far greater than we suspect.
Is God Real?
Mickiel did you read what I wrote. I said I can accept the metaphor. Consider what a metaphor is. God is not a being like humans. The Bible even tells us that God is a spirit.Many theologians today seem to accept the idea of God being a sacred presence encompassing the universe. Thus one cannot use science to prove or disprove God. So also alol people in the world have had such experiences whether Christian, Hindu, Muslim etc. Thus God is an experiential reeality.
Is God Real?
Ted;1512070 wrote: Mickiel did you read what I wrote. I said I can accept the metaphor. Consider what a metaphor is. God is not a being like humans. The Bible even tells us that God is a spirit.Many theologians today seem to accept the idea of God being a sacred presence encompassing the universe. Thus one cannot use science to prove or disprove God. So also alol people in the world have had such experiences whether Christian, Hindu, Muslim etc. Thus God is an experiential reeality.
God is not an experiential reality ; he simply is.
God is not an experiential reality ; he simply is.
Is God Real?
I do not agree but that is OK Since God cannot be seen because He/She/It is a spirit the only way we have of knowing him is by experiencing him in a wide variety of ways.
Is God Real?
Ted;1512108 wrote: I do not agree but that is OK Since God cannot be seen because He/She/It is a spirit the only way we have of knowing him is by experiencing him in a wide variety of ways.
Its a way, but not the only way.
Its a way, but not the only way.
Is God Real?
Mickiel give me some of the other ways.
Is God Real?
Ted;1512157 wrote: Mickiel give me some of the other ways.
Well God can give a person a " Spiritual IQ", and range it from high to low.
He can manipulate their consciousness.
He can place parts of his consciousness into the human.
God can appeal directly to their minds and hearts.
Well God can give a person a " Spiritual IQ", and range it from high to low.
He can manipulate their consciousness.
He can place parts of his consciousness into the human.
God can appeal directly to their minds and hearts.
Is God Real?
They all depend on experience. Thus an experiential reality.
Is God Real?
Ted;1512164 wrote: They all depend on experience. Thus an experiential reality.
God does not need experience to appeal to any human . He did not use experience to appeal to me.
God does not need experience to appeal to any human . He did not use experience to appeal to me.
Is God Real?
Oh!? He/She/It just walked in and tapped them on the shoulder to get their attention. God may have stimulated their brain but that is still experience.. Mickiel I cannot believe you said that.
Is God Real?
Ted;1512199 wrote: Oh!? He/She/It just walked in and tapped them on the shoulder to get their attention. God may have stimulated their brain but that is still experience.. Mickiel I cannot believe you said that.
You may not believe this as well; God can appeal directly to the Occipital Lobe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occipital_lobe
You may not believe this as well; God can appeal directly to the Occipital Lobe.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occipital_lobe
Is God Real?
I do not believe God does those things but maybe in very very exceptional cases. I said maybe but even that is doubtful.
Is God Real?
Ted;1512247 wrote: I do not believe God does those things but maybe in very very exceptional cases. I said maybe but even that is doubtful.
Well I understand, I have things I am doubtful of.
Well I understand, I have things I am doubtful of.
Is God Real?
I think it is simply about trust.
Is God Real?
Ted;1512332 wrote: I think it is simply about trust.
Trust is closing your eyes and believing you won't get hit; its hard to see that.
Trust is closing your eyes and believing you won't get hit; its hard to see that.
Is God Real?
Mickiel;1512347 wrote: Trust is closing your eyes and believing you won't get hit; its hard to see that.
Its hard for me to trust in God, even to believe in him. It is not an easy thing to consider another life that is far greater than your own. But if you exist, then a God can exist.
Its hard for me to trust in God, even to believe in him. It is not an easy thing to consider another life that is far greater than your own. But if you exist, then a God can exist.
Is God Real?
I mean look at this life, how this world is getting systematically worse in our behavior. Nations fighting nations ; threatening each other with their bombs, as if such destructive power is their toys to toss at each other. And eerily the bible predicted this dangerous behavior. I mean what is there to believe in if we cannot have peace among each other? What is it that makes us hate and growl at each others necks? Why is human nature the way that it is?
Why does humanity keep messing up its own world? And what makes you think that there is no power to stop all this mess?
Is there really hope for humanity?
Why does humanity keep messing up its own world? And what makes you think that there is no power to stop all this mess?
Is there really hope for humanity?
Is God Real?
Mickiel some very interesting and problematic questions. The first thing that comes to my mind is the existence of God. The word exist is a problem. What do we mean when we say God exists. I personally prefer the phrase "The reality of God. Is a tendency to evil just a part of the human condition in some people. Many are not evil they just want to live and let live. Have we been far too "me oriented" that in some cases you have racism or hatred, or phobic such as phobic about alternative sexual orientations and with that a host of others? Humans look for some form of security in life and after death. Is it not a security issue. With this comes religious intolerance . I suspect this intolerance comes from the desire to be right and going to heaven. To make themselves more secure they put others down to enhance their own security and feeling good about themselves.
Why do we make the same mistake over and over? I think it is because of our concern for "now" so we lock ourselves out of history. We do not learn well from our past mistakes. It is a new time and a new era so we seem to take the route that those in the past have takes. Just some thoughts.
d
Why do we make the same mistake over and over? I think it is because of our concern for "now" so we lock ourselves out of history. We do not learn well from our past mistakes. It is a new time and a new era so we seem to take the route that those in the past have takes. Just some thoughts.
d
Is God Real?
Ted;1512360 wrote: Mickiel some very interesting and problematic questions. The first thing that comes to my mind is the existence of God. The word exist is a problem. What do we mean when we say God exists. I personally prefer the phrase "The reality of God. Is a tendency to evil just a part of the human condition in some people. Many are not evil they just want to live and let live. Have we been far too "me oriented" that in some cases you have racism or hatred, or phobic such as phobic about alternative sexual orientations and with that a host of others? Humans look for some form of security in life and after death. Is it not a security issue. With this comes religious intolerance . I suspect this intolerance comes from the desire to be right and going to heaven. To make themselves more secure they put others down to enhance their own security and feeling good about themselves.
Why do we make the same mistake over and over? I think it is because of our concern for "now" so we lock ourselves out of history. We do not learn well from our past mistakes. It is a new time and a new era so we seem to take the route that those in the past have takes. Just some thoughts.
d
I can go with the expression " The reality of God", that works for me as well. In my view, God is ; because he either is or is not, and I think the latter more true. I think there must be an original source of reality that is a self evolving power that had to always be the fabric of all things that be and is, but it had to be the back round of life as we understand it and had to always have been there to avoid us going back into that history that you so well spoke of that we never learn from, and that source must be some kind of life that is just far beyond us, but we came from it; and it is that missing ingredient in our history that keeps us from going back and back on into infinity, until we just have to admit that something was there that is beyond all known laws of existence; and it is our beginning , but it itself is somehow beyond our ability to explain how it itself exist, or " Is."
The logic is true concerning physical things; all things physical could not have bought themselves into existence, since they must first exist in order to bring themselves into existence. So I think there is just a whole different evolving component to the reality of God that just cannot be defined by our means of communication and knowledge. I mean I wish I could understand God and how he is, If he exist. I will give that " If", and consider that just my willing to sit at the table of just what is going on in our reality and discuss it. I mean something has happened and we are alive. The world is, so I think something more powerful than the world " Is." I don't exactly know just what that "Is", is itself; but I think it is. I think its highly possible that it is alive and some kind of malevolent being. And I think its evolving and we are part of that evolving, because we are evolving. And will evolve into something far more greater than we are now; I think that is why we all exist, and we ALL will continue to exist.
So the mistakes we made are meaningless to our future; I think we actually will live in an incredible new world devoid of all evil and suffering. All of us, with no religions to ever condemn us again. So I bring that to the table , and consider it better to view that as a possibility ; I say life is possible, and will put that up against death any day in our conscious speculations.
Why do we make the same mistake over and over? I think it is because of our concern for "now" so we lock ourselves out of history. We do not learn well from our past mistakes. It is a new time and a new era so we seem to take the route that those in the past have takes. Just some thoughts.
d
I can go with the expression " The reality of God", that works for me as well. In my view, God is ; because he either is or is not, and I think the latter more true. I think there must be an original source of reality that is a self evolving power that had to always be the fabric of all things that be and is, but it had to be the back round of life as we understand it and had to always have been there to avoid us going back into that history that you so well spoke of that we never learn from, and that source must be some kind of life that is just far beyond us, but we came from it; and it is that missing ingredient in our history that keeps us from going back and back on into infinity, until we just have to admit that something was there that is beyond all known laws of existence; and it is our beginning , but it itself is somehow beyond our ability to explain how it itself exist, or " Is."
The logic is true concerning physical things; all things physical could not have bought themselves into existence, since they must first exist in order to bring themselves into existence. So I think there is just a whole different evolving component to the reality of God that just cannot be defined by our means of communication and knowledge. I mean I wish I could understand God and how he is, If he exist. I will give that " If", and consider that just my willing to sit at the table of just what is going on in our reality and discuss it. I mean something has happened and we are alive. The world is, so I think something more powerful than the world " Is." I don't exactly know just what that "Is", is itself; but I think it is. I think its highly possible that it is alive and some kind of malevolent being. And I think its evolving and we are part of that evolving, because we are evolving. And will evolve into something far more greater than we are now; I think that is why we all exist, and we ALL will continue to exist.
So the mistakes we made are meaningless to our future; I think we actually will live in an incredible new world devoid of all evil and suffering. All of us, with no religions to ever condemn us again. So I bring that to the table , and consider it better to view that as a possibility ; I say life is possible, and will put that up against death any day in our conscious speculations.
Is God Real?
The present thinking of the panentheist is that God is the sacred presence we feel in everything. Thus I class myself as a panentheist. This also allows for ecumenism.
Is God Real?
Actually the finding of the coppermine supports what I have been saying that some of the stories have an historical basis (legend) Archaeological degs have also shown that the size of David's kingdom was not near as large as the Biblical account. (Finkelstein and Silbermann.)
Is God Real?
Ted;1512371 wrote: The present thinking of the panentheist is that God is the sacred presence we feel in everything. Thus I class myself as a panentheist. This also allows for ecumenism.
Well I think panentheist thinking has something to it that is promising to the puzzle. A common denominator linking us to the unknown, is perhaps the same one that links God to the unknown; I think God is linked to life in ways that will be quite something to know. We just need to know far more.
But that is one of the mysteries of life, we know that there is much more to know, so its an unending link that we were I think made to be attracted to. Life is iconoclastic and I have a belief that we were made to live and have that life in joy and an ever learning life of excitement and love. And I see nothing wrong with hoping for that to be true.
Well I think panentheist thinking has something to it that is promising to the puzzle. A common denominator linking us to the unknown, is perhaps the same one that links God to the unknown; I think God is linked to life in ways that will be quite something to know. We just need to know far more.
But that is one of the mysteries of life, we know that there is much more to know, so its an unending link that we were I think made to be attracted to. Life is iconoclastic and I have a belief that we were made to live and have that life in joy and an ever learning life of excitement and love. And I see nothing wrong with hoping for that to be true.
Is God Real?
The primary task has to define just what is "God". As a physical reality - an entity, then most definitely not. However, as a focus of an abstract belief, then most definitely yes, as a belief is something held in the imnd - the imagination. To a child the belief in Father Christmas & the Tooth Fairy is strong, because that is what they are told by their parents - the people they trust most. Then, as time goes on, they learn that their parents were, in fact, lying to them. But what if their parents hadn't learned the truth about Father Christmas & were to pass on that belief as a reality, in good faith? Then the child goes on to believe it because that is the way he has always been taught. Then he, in turn goes on to teach it to his children, with variations along the way, and so the belief develops - even into a Religion.
Basically, if you believe in the existence of a God, then he exists for YOU. He doesn't exist for anyone else. He's an imaginary friend & when accepted as such, that's fine, but once it comes to declaring all those who don't share your belief & threatening them with dire consequences, including torture or death, and even eternal pain in some imaginary after life, then it is no longer acceptable.
Basically, if you believe in the existence of a God, then he exists for YOU. He doesn't exist for anyone else. He's an imaginary friend & when accepted as such, that's fine, but once it comes to declaring all those who don't share your belief & threatening them with dire consequences, including torture or death, and even eternal pain in some imaginary after life, then it is no longer acceptable.
Is God Real?
FourPart;1512395 wrote: The primary task has to define just what is "God". As a physical reality - an entity, then most definitely not. However, as a focus of an abstract belief, then most definitely yes, as a belief is something held in the imnd - the imagination. To a child the belief in Father Christmas & the Tooth Fairy is strong, because that is what they are told by their parents - the people they trust most. Then, as time goes on, they learn that their parents were, in fact, lying to them. But what if their parents hadn't learned the truth about Father Christmas & were to pass on that belief as a reality, in good faith? Then the child goes on to believe it because that is the way he has always been taught. Then he, in turn goes on to teach it to his children, with variations along the way, and so the belief develops - even into a Religion.
Basically, if you believe in the existence of a God, then he exists for YOU. He doesn't exist for anyone else. He's an imaginary friend & when accepted as such, that's fine, but once it comes to declaring all those who don't share your belief & threatening them with dire consequences, including torture or death, and even eternal pain in some imaginary after life, then it is no longer acceptable.
Well I agree , it is no longer acceptable but borderlines insanity to even suggest that even an " Imagined god" would inflict eternal pain on humans, much less a real God would. I think its common knowledge that we all have learned many things in error growing up. Truth is often like a bump on a carpet , you finally struggle and beat out one falsehood in front of you, only to have another hump pop up on you in another area.
I am a fan of humans using their imagination in certain areas of life. Of course the arts, sports, gambling, some business, ; I think Imagination helps in planning and building; in relationships and education. I think it has its place in unraveling mysteries and is an incredible tool in the hands of an experienced lawyer. So imagination has its place , but in some things it has no place. I like to imagine how God must look, because in reality I just don't know; therefore it would be absolutely wrong for me to tell others that I know without a doubt how he looks; that would be lying, not imagination.
I think you just about described how many religions were born in the minds of men, yet we could still be surprised at some other ways religion got established.
My definition of God is ongoing, I have thrown my hands up many times. I no doubt favor the bible as one valuable resource that helps give us some kind of start.
Jesus once called God " Power"; he was sitting next to God and explained that he sat at " The right hand of " Power." That always has impressed me because we can define power in so many dynamic ways, and it has a very wide range of interesting ways to define it; one can get lost in learning as they go down all the differing roads of its offshoots of meanings. Again if God is, ( and I use " If" for the benefit of unbelievers , leaving them room for respect), if he is real , then it is obvious that he himself does not yet want his existence to be a plainly accepted simple thing; oh that's painfully obvious.
He obviously has the power to reveal himself in a thousand both simple and dynamic ways to all of humanity. That would be a simple elemental thing for him to do ; he has not! Compounding an already incredible weight on the thin line between belief and unbelief. So although I think God is interested in the belief of humanity , its just not that important to him now.
Which means God must have an agenda!
Let me take a turn here for a moment and show a place in the bible where I think God is best defined; in Gal.5:22-23; these are what I think God most likely is; I think these perfectly sum God up, if we must try to do that; These are his ways and means, they describe his character; " But the fruit of the Spirit is Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith, Meekness and Temperance." I also think these are his motivations and Power.
Remember that God is described as " Power." But if we are to try and piece together what God is, what he is like, it is of vast importance that we understand that God's power, ( or his ways and means), is tempered by ALL these fruit! Remember when the ruler is loving the people rejoice! When the ruler is evil, the people suffer.
So God is defined in one manner by how he rules ; how he loves and cares for his creations. And I know this may be hard to see right now, because of the " Current sufferings"; humanities future is far more important to him now.
So life to God is an ongoing thing.
Basically, if you believe in the existence of a God, then he exists for YOU. He doesn't exist for anyone else. He's an imaginary friend & when accepted as such, that's fine, but once it comes to declaring all those who don't share your belief & threatening them with dire consequences, including torture or death, and even eternal pain in some imaginary after life, then it is no longer acceptable.
Well I agree , it is no longer acceptable but borderlines insanity to even suggest that even an " Imagined god" would inflict eternal pain on humans, much less a real God would. I think its common knowledge that we all have learned many things in error growing up. Truth is often like a bump on a carpet , you finally struggle and beat out one falsehood in front of you, only to have another hump pop up on you in another area.
I am a fan of humans using their imagination in certain areas of life. Of course the arts, sports, gambling, some business, ; I think Imagination helps in planning and building; in relationships and education. I think it has its place in unraveling mysteries and is an incredible tool in the hands of an experienced lawyer. So imagination has its place , but in some things it has no place. I like to imagine how God must look, because in reality I just don't know; therefore it would be absolutely wrong for me to tell others that I know without a doubt how he looks; that would be lying, not imagination.
I think you just about described how many religions were born in the minds of men, yet we could still be surprised at some other ways religion got established.
My definition of God is ongoing, I have thrown my hands up many times. I no doubt favor the bible as one valuable resource that helps give us some kind of start.
Jesus once called God " Power"; he was sitting next to God and explained that he sat at " The right hand of " Power." That always has impressed me because we can define power in so many dynamic ways, and it has a very wide range of interesting ways to define it; one can get lost in learning as they go down all the differing roads of its offshoots of meanings. Again if God is, ( and I use " If" for the benefit of unbelievers , leaving them room for respect), if he is real , then it is obvious that he himself does not yet want his existence to be a plainly accepted simple thing; oh that's painfully obvious.
He obviously has the power to reveal himself in a thousand both simple and dynamic ways to all of humanity. That would be a simple elemental thing for him to do ; he has not! Compounding an already incredible weight on the thin line between belief and unbelief. So although I think God is interested in the belief of humanity , its just not that important to him now.
Which means God must have an agenda!
Let me take a turn here for a moment and show a place in the bible where I think God is best defined; in Gal.5:22-23; these are what I think God most likely is; I think these perfectly sum God up, if we must try to do that; These are his ways and means, they describe his character; " But the fruit of the Spirit is Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith, Meekness and Temperance." I also think these are his motivations and Power.
Remember that God is described as " Power." But if we are to try and piece together what God is, what he is like, it is of vast importance that we understand that God's power, ( or his ways and means), is tempered by ALL these fruit! Remember when the ruler is loving the people rejoice! When the ruler is evil, the people suffer.
So God is defined in one manner by how he rules ; how he loves and cares for his creations. And I know this may be hard to see right now, because of the " Current sufferings"; humanities future is far more important to him now.
So life to God is an ongoing thing.
Is God Real?
All of the terms you have used are abstract ones - all of which further open to individual interpretation.
You say that "God is Power". Well, remember the phrase "Power corrupts. Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely".
Humans are driven by instinct to fill in missing gaps. If they can't work out what the gaps are they make them up. They have it hard coded in their DNA to see things that aren't really there - like faces & animals in cloud patterns. It's a self preservation instinct, keyed through evolution to spot predators in the undergrowth etc. Seeing these patterns as images are much like Rorschek ink blot tests. Not surprisingly, when faced with those I just see symmetrical ink blots.
You say that "God is Power". Well, remember the phrase "Power corrupts. Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely".
Humans are driven by instinct to fill in missing gaps. If they can't work out what the gaps are they make them up. They have it hard coded in their DNA to see things that aren't really there - like faces & animals in cloud patterns. It's a self preservation instinct, keyed through evolution to spot predators in the undergrowth etc. Seeing these patterns as images are much like Rorschek ink blot tests. Not surprisingly, when faced with those I just see symmetrical ink blots.
Is God Real?
FourPart;1512403 wrote: All of the terms you have used are abstract ones - all of which further open to individual interpretation.
You say that "God is Power". Well, remember the phrase "Power corrupts. Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely".
Humans are driven by instinct to fill in missing gaps. If they can't work out what the gaps are they make them up. They have it hard coded in their DNA to see things that aren't really there - like faces & animals in cloud patterns. It's a self preservation instinct, keyed through evolution to spot predators in the undergrowth etc. Seeing these patterns as images are much like Rorschek ink blot tests. Not surprisingly, when faced with those I just see symmetrical ink blots.
Granted humans have a creative mind that can fill in some incredible gaps, but I find it hard to accept, I mean speaking for myself, that something like DNA in humans and animals, found enough in any gap in reality to help make them become a part of reality while writing their own codes of existence on lets say tablets of stone.
Wow, Come on FourPart, writing the complicated DNA Sequence on a tablet of stone, verses the Ten Commandments written on another tablet of stone? Life is filled with such ambitions and patterns and images poured down from our history, without the help of a Kodak camera evolution would have to be keyed and filmed.
But seriously, we humans still have time to work out some more gaps.
You say that "God is Power". Well, remember the phrase "Power corrupts. Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely".
Humans are driven by instinct to fill in missing gaps. If they can't work out what the gaps are they make them up. They have it hard coded in their DNA to see things that aren't really there - like faces & animals in cloud patterns. It's a self preservation instinct, keyed through evolution to spot predators in the undergrowth etc. Seeing these patterns as images are much like Rorschek ink blot tests. Not surprisingly, when faced with those I just see symmetrical ink blots.
Granted humans have a creative mind that can fill in some incredible gaps, but I find it hard to accept, I mean speaking for myself, that something like DNA in humans and animals, found enough in any gap in reality to help make them become a part of reality while writing their own codes of existence on lets say tablets of stone.
Wow, Come on FourPart, writing the complicated DNA Sequence on a tablet of stone, verses the Ten Commandments written on another tablet of stone? Life is filled with such ambitions and patterns and images poured down from our history, without the help of a Kodak camera evolution would have to be keyed and filmed.
But seriously, we humans still have time to work out some more gaps.
Is God Real?
So Moses (not God) managed to write all those books of the Old Testament, in their great complexity, but the only part that God, himself, is supposed to have written - 10 short lines have to be made on 2 ruddy great blocks of stone.
It is a fact that humans have a natural tendency to see faces in random images. In the same way, other animals have an instinctive fear of certain shapes. At work we have a stone owl outside the window on each floor. It is a natural pigeon deterrent. Mind you, they are very realistic. When I first saw one, I thought it was real as well. I remember an episode of QI that included a silhouette of a bird crossing from left to right, and then the same silhouette going from right to left. The difference being thate direction the image was that of something like a swan, whilst the other was that of a hawk. The point being that ducklings would recognise the shape & would not be bothered by one, but would hide from the other. You see, they, too, fill in the unknown with thoughts of fear.
It is a fact that humans have a natural tendency to see faces in random images. In the same way, other animals have an instinctive fear of certain shapes. At work we have a stone owl outside the window on each floor. It is a natural pigeon deterrent. Mind you, they are very realistic. When I first saw one, I thought it was real as well. I remember an episode of QI that included a silhouette of a bird crossing from left to right, and then the same silhouette going from right to left. The difference being thate direction the image was that of something like a swan, whilst the other was that of a hawk. The point being that ducklings would recognise the shape & would not be bothered by one, but would hide from the other. You see, they, too, fill in the unknown with thoughts of fear.
Is God Real?
FourPart;1512410 wrote: So Moses (not God) managed to write all those books of the Old Testament, in their great complexity, but the only part that God, himself, is supposed to have written - 10 short lines have to be made on 2 ruddy great blocks of stone.
It is a fact that humans have a natural tendency to see faces in random images. In the same way, other animals have an instinctive fear of certain shapes. At work we have a stone owl outside the window on each floor. It is a natural pigeon deterrent. Mind you, they are very realistic. When I first saw one, I thought it was real as well. I remember an episode of QI that included a silhouette of a bird crossing from left to right, and then the same silhouette going from right to left. The difference being thate direction the image was that of something like a swan, whilst the other was that of a hawk. The point being that ducklings would recognise the shape & would not be bothered by one, but would hide from the other. You see, they, too, fill in the unknown with thoughts of fear.
Well yes, I mean we can't help it. I fill in the unknown with thoughts of fear; I am not made out of iron you know. I have my fears, and parts of God scares me for sure. If the front line is for the brave, man I just have to get in the back. I have no faith, no strength, no endurance and I don't like pain. So I am one of those believers who needs a lot from God. Just weak man.
But I believe. God help my unbelief.
It is a fact that humans have a natural tendency to see faces in random images. In the same way, other animals have an instinctive fear of certain shapes. At work we have a stone owl outside the window on each floor. It is a natural pigeon deterrent. Mind you, they are very realistic. When I first saw one, I thought it was real as well. I remember an episode of QI that included a silhouette of a bird crossing from left to right, and then the same silhouette going from right to left. The difference being thate direction the image was that of something like a swan, whilst the other was that of a hawk. The point being that ducklings would recognise the shape & would not be bothered by one, but would hide from the other. You see, they, too, fill in the unknown with thoughts of fear.
Well yes, I mean we can't help it. I fill in the unknown with thoughts of fear; I am not made out of iron you know. I have my fears, and parts of God scares me for sure. If the front line is for the brave, man I just have to get in the back. I have no faith, no strength, no endurance and I don't like pain. So I am one of those believers who needs a lot from God. Just weak man.
But I believe. God help my unbelief.
Is God Real?
God is what eventually must cancel out fear and evil. In the great scheme of all things , good must overcome evil; God is our teacher, our leader, our God!
He is!
He is our creator and protector and provider. He will explain all that we need to know. Frankly I can't see anything else but God doing all that. He will see us all through all the evil and suffering, let us taste the evil and suffering, and so we can know just why he is getting rid of if.
And he is doing all this, because he really just loves us with all his heart. There really is no other secret reason; this Great Awesome God is in love with all of us! Its all for the sake of love. Jesus loves his Great Father and wants to share him with all of us, that we may know his love.
Jesus knows something; he's been with the Father God a long time ; he knows something. If you notice Jesus could not wait to get back to God when he was here on earth. I mean its as if he longed for the Father with all his heart. The love and peace and kindness of God must be incredible!!
And its our rightful place in reality to be with our loving Father; and nothing can stop it.
He is!
He is our creator and protector and provider. He will explain all that we need to know. Frankly I can't see anything else but God doing all that. He will see us all through all the evil and suffering, let us taste the evil and suffering, and so we can know just why he is getting rid of if.
And he is doing all this, because he really just loves us with all his heart. There really is no other secret reason; this Great Awesome God is in love with all of us! Its all for the sake of love. Jesus loves his Great Father and wants to share him with all of us, that we may know his love.
Jesus knows something; he's been with the Father God a long time ; he knows something. If you notice Jesus could not wait to get back to God when he was here on earth. I mean its as if he longed for the Father with all his heart. The love and peace and kindness of God must be incredible!!
And its our rightful place in reality to be with our loving Father; and nothing can stop it.
Is God Real?
First of all the Torah was written during and after the Babylonian exile. Moses was long dead before it was put in writing. Moses is not the author of the first five books. My own feeling is that we should be about His business not trying to figure out the nature of the divine. Jesus death was for treason and nothing else. He awas crucified as a criminal and buried???. However his spirit has continued to dwell with us ever sense. Paul even said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom
Is God Real?
Ted;1512434 wrote: First of all the Torah was written during and after the Babylonian exile. Moses was long dead before it was put in writing. Moses is not the author of the first five books. My own feeling is that we should be about His business not trying to figure out the nature of the divine. Jesus death was for treason and nothing else. He awas crucified as a criminal and buried???. However his spirit has continued to dwell with us ever sense. Paul even said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom
Paul said what??? I never heard him saying silly stuff like that.....Ooops, which Paul are you talking about?
Paul said what??? I never heard him saying silly stuff like that.....Ooops, which Paul are you talking about?
Any connection between your reality and mine is purely coincidental.
Is God Real?
Ted;1512434 wrote: First of all the Torah was written during and after the Babylonian exile. Moses was long dead before it was put in writing. Moses is not the author of the first five books. My own feeling is that we should be about His business not trying to figure out the nature of the divine. Jesus death was for treason and nothing else. He awas crucified as a criminal and buried???. However his spirit has continued to dwell with us ever sense. Paul even said that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom
God has us all covered, no matter what we are doing.
God has us all covered, no matter what we are doing.
Is God Real?
Fuzzy I know your take on the Bible so I won't go there. I was speaking of St. Paul of Tarsus. In 1 Corinthians 15:50 St Paul wrote ". . . Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God . . . " He was speaking of a spiritual body and not a physicaol body.. So we see him speaking in a metaphysical way not a solid body way. Lots of folks Have made that mistake over the centuries and that includes Christians. Since Paul is speaking of a spiritual resurrection he obviously didn't think he would see corpses walking around. So one has to consider the word "spiritual".
Is God Real?
God completely owns all of humanity, whatever happens to us, he is ultimately responsible!
And I, for one, am VERY happy about that. We do not own our destiny, our lives belongs to God!
And I, for one, am VERY happy about that. We do not own our destiny, our lives belongs to God!
Is God Real?
Just read some material written by Paul Tillich a renounced 21st cent theologian.
Is God Real?
As long as I am alive, I can see God being real. Life is a great key to this great question. We live and move and have our being.
Life! We are alive!
There is a great reason there.
Life! We are alive!
There is a great reason there.
Is God Real?
[QUOTE=Ted;1513363]Just read some material written by Paul Tillich a renouned 21st cent theologian.
Is God Real?
God is an experiential reality.
Is God Real?
Ted;1513423 wrote: God is an experiential reality.
God is
How Ironic; God brings man into reality, only to have some unwise men question his reality.
God is
How Ironic; God brings man into reality, only to have some unwise men question his reality.