Is God Real?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:23 pm

First of all my position has not changed since the 1960s and the more I read and study both at home and the Vancouver School of Theology the more convinced I'm on the right track. Since man became self conscious he has been looking for security in what we know is an uncertain world. It is a real need for some form of security even if it becomes absurd like talking snakes or the sun standing still or bodies of long dead prophets do not come out of their graves to talk to people or just walk around. This is ancient style of thinking and writing but we know better today. In short People are seeking security that is non existent,

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:47 pm

http://www.sungress.com/recent-newsarch ... ed-tricks/

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:01 pm

I think it is the age old security need that is simply not their but some are very afraid as they travel their journey through life. This thread seems to offer some security that is an illusion..

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:06 pm

Ted;1505700 wrote: I think it is the age old security need that is simply not their but some are very afraid as they travel their journey through life. This thread seems to offer some security that is an illusion..

So you think this thread really gives some a security they need? Explain to me why you think its a false need. Why would a free world need false security?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:56 pm

kThe need is an individual one on the part of many. They livve in hope (which is Christian) of eternal life continueing after death. They seek some form of security that will calm their nerves. Wed do not know what happens at death. We have no idea all we have is "hope. That is why people want an inerrant Bible as some form of guarantee. It is the fear of reality in and on an insecure planet. They desperately fear non-exostemce/ They want to grandma and granpa again.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:12 pm

That archaeological interpretation is just that interpretation. Probiblility??? I would be interested in a peer review.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:05 pm

Ted;1505907 wrote: That archaeological interpretation is just that interpretation. Probiblility??? I would be interested in a peer review.

Here's a peer review ;

Is the Bible supported by modern archaeology? « Science Meets Religion

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:24 pm

More and more wannabees. Ever hopeful but ignorant in my view. I have studied under some of the worlds best recognized scholars and this is purely a joke. There is that need for security again.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Tue Jan 31, 2017 9:36 am

Ted;1505982 wrote: More and more wannabees. Ever hopeful but ignorant in my view. I have studied under some of the worlds best recognized scholars and this is purely a joke. There is that need for security again.

Have you ever studied this;

Is the Bible supported by modern archaeology? « Science Meets Religion

Or this;

https://www.ucg.org/the-good-news/god-s ... acy-of-the

How about considering this;

Believers Score in Battle Over the Battle of Jericho - NYTimes.com

Or this;

Archaeology and the Historical Reliability of the New Testament - bethinking.org

In many cases archaeology cannot prove or disprove biblical personalities , but it can prove the biblical narrative. The web and flow of the bible matches the web and flow of history. As writers recorded the story of man , we can see that the bible is an exact match of the human historical narrative recorded by non biblical writers.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:46 pm

I do not trust archaeologists who have a n intnetion to make the evidence fit their thesis. I trust those who have no vested interest except in the truth regardless of where it takes them. I was raised in a very fundamentalist church and found it both wanting and evil. I don't trulst anything such people say. Albright was such a person trying to make the evidence fit his theseis. He has subsequently been proven wrong. Jericho was a battered and trashed city by the time Joshua ever got their. His march did not knowk the walls down since they were already down. My knowledge of Jericho comes from an archaeologist under whom I have studied and a friend of his one Kathleen Kenyon and well recognized and respected archaeologist who did not begin with a vested interest.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:42 am

In order to even have archaeology , we must deal with the problem of consciousness , since the age that consciousness began. Then consciousness had to interact with matter and space in its origin of environment. That leads to " The Mind-Body problem." The origin of the mind, or the origin of consciousness in evolution. How can we derive the endless subjective experiences that we have - out of mere matter? And if so , when?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:30 am

Now the search for matter , ( or archaeology) , and the search into the nature of consciousness , which is really a search for the spirit , produces the " Mind-Body " problem. Some think consciousness is a property of matter , that our consciousness grew and evolved along with the environment we were exposed to. So archaeology itself can either be trusted or not , one then is saying;

" I trust the environment" , but I don't trust the people who have written about it. Well I can understand that , but the Realism still awaits us IF we are to learn ; one of the attractiveness of consciousness is learning.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 4:10 pm

Consciousness is an issue and a big question. Quantum physics is looking into and dealing with that issue. There is of course no such thing as pure objectivity anywhere but scientiusts do their best to seek out truth and while there is truth in the bible it is not literal truth in any way. It is a spiritual truth and has no real bearing on arachaeological findings. To read the Bible literally is to demean the great book that it is. (heresy)

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:27 pm

Ted;1506373 wrote: Consciousness is an issue and a big question. Quantum physics is looking into and dealing with that issue. There is of course no such thing as pure objectivity anywhere but scientiusts do their best to seek out truth and while there is truth in the bible it is not literal truth in any way. It is a spiritual truth and has no real bearing on arachaeological findings. To read the Bible literally is to demean the great book that it is. (heresy)

Consciousness is an issue ; it has to do with Quantum physics , yes. But it also has to do with simple poetry. It has to do with religion ; with math ; with emotions ; with life! And certainly with language. It has to do with everything! So everything is worth looking into. And we have!

Oh how we have , and yet still have not scratched the surface.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:09 am

Mickiel;1506381 wrote: Consciousness is an issue ; it has to do with Quantum physics , yes. But it also has to do with simple poetry. It has to do with religion ; with math ; with emotions ; with life! And certainly with language. It has to do with everything! So everything is worth looking into. And we have!

Oh how we have , and yet still have not scratched the surface.

So lets limit this vastness to something that will fit on one page?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:31 pm

Mickiel you seem to know more about consciousness that the worlds leading experts.. I guess it is ok to develop another myth to try to explain it. After all that is what myth is about.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:49 pm

"We cannot be conscious of those things we arfe not conscious of" Wow Logic. They were taught by others. Yes and they understood with as the Bible says We though as children but now we think as adults.(paraphrased) They were not stupid people they simply did not know or understand so they wrote myth to help them out at the time. They did not know about all of the issues beyond what theiur level of knowledge was. In short they were wrong though a lack of facts and understanding not because they intended to deceive. The problem is now some folks want to live in the dark ages. A security blanket.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:02 pm

Ted;1506423 wrote: Mickiel you seem to know more about consciousness that the worlds leading experts.. I guess it is ok to develop another myth to try to explain it. After all that is what myth is about.

I can think for myself , a luxury some Atheist I challenge will not concede to me.

Why , because they are " Ego damaged" ; when it comes to the topic of God , having speaks with an Atheist is like standing in the food line of a greedy King ; you never know what they will give you , because their moods and emotions share things with a royal pain.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:43 pm

That is rather judgemental and I cannot agree. I have friends who are atheists as they claim. That is their right to choose. I choose to be a Christian as is my right. I do not hold to the fundamentalist definition of Christian. Jesus himself was not a Christian. He was born a Jew and died a faithful Jew.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Tue Feb 07, 2017 7:46 pm

Ted;1506454 wrote: That is rather judgemental and I cannot agree. I have friends who are atheists as they claim. That is their right to choose. I choose to be a Christian as is my right. I do not hold to the fundamentalist definition of Christian. Jesus himself was not a Christian. He was born a Jew and died a faithful Jew.

I offer you my apology , I sensed you were an Atheist, mostly because of how you speak. But it then is more evidence that Christians are grouping off into so many differing branches, its hard to keep up with. And the branches are breaking.

But I enjoy speaking with you.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:34 pm

Michiel there are so many, some 22 000 variations on the Christian theme and many of them claim to have the sole handle on the truth. At the time of the historical Jesus there were dozens of Judaism. The faith began to fracture shortly after the crucifixion. They were looking for that security that that I have often spoken of. And they were trying to come to grips with who and what Jesus was. The were trying to interpret him.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:46 pm

Ted;1506461 wrote: Michiel there are so many, some 22 000 variations on the Christian theme and many of them claim to have the sole handle on the truth. At the time of the historical Jesus there were dozens of Judaism. The faith began to fracture shortly after the crucifixion. They were looking for that security that that I have often spoken of. And they were trying to come to grips with who and what Jesus was. The were trying to interpret him.

And they have that security from Jesus , he has already saved the world! Its just hard for the world residents to believe its that simple.

And I understand that.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:59 pm

Hey Mickey, how are you feeling?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Wed Feb 08, 2017 8:44 pm

Ahso!;1506518 wrote: Hey Mickey, how are you feeling?

Well I am feeling great! So far so good; hardly no pain.

Thanks for asking.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:52 pm

Michiel that is where I disagree. We have no idea of Jesus actulal words. The gospels were written by unknown authors Mark whever he was in about 72, Matthew whoiever he was early 80s, Luke ??? late 80s and John John in the late 90s. The names were appended to the gospels some where around the 400 s. ThWe have no idea who wrote the gospels.. They added things as time went on for their own specific audiences. A critical reading will show that and of course all of the contradictions. Matthew presents a geneaology of Jesus where for of the dnames were women of ill repute thus making Jesus us illegitimate which we don't belie. Even the birth story is a midrash. It is not historical.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:54 pm

Jesus did not offer security. What he did offer was a better way of being human.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:03 pm

What did the term "salvation" mean in those days? The Hebre were saved during the Exoduss. That had nothing to do with a heaven. When David slew Goliath the Hebrew were once again saved. Nothing to do with heaven at all. Daniel was in the fire but survived. Once again he was saved but that had nothing to do with heaven. That is a good fiction.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:05 pm

Sorry folks having trouble reading my computer screen these days. Will need more eye surgery after I get back from Greece. Will be away from Feb 21 to May 6.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:04 pm

Ted;1506568 wrote: Sorry folks having trouble reading my computer screen these days. Will need more eye surgery after I get back from Greece. Will be away from Feb 21 to May 6.

Well it is my hope that you get all that you need for your eye to improve.

The meaning of Salvation has never changed , it simply means to be delivered; the Hebrew meaning has never changed over time ;

Strong's Hebrew: 3468. ×™ÖµÖ«×©Ö·××¢ (yesha) -- deliverance, rescue, salvation, safety, welfare

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:18 pm

Ted;1506567 wrote: What did the term "salvation" mean in those days? The Hebre were saved during the Exoduss. That had nothing to do with a heaven. When David slew Goliath the Hebrew were once again saved. Nothing to do with heaven at all. Daniel was in the fire but survived. Once again he was saved but that had nothing to do with heaven. That is a good fiction.

The meaning never changed , the term is a simple term , simply meaning to be delivered ;

https://www.logosapostolic.org/hebrew-w ... vation.htm

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:29 pm

You could even take the initial primitives as being the Scientists of their day. They observe. They produce theories based on what they observe. They then examine the evidence to see if it supports the theory. However, as the theory is based on an unknown variable in the first place, then anything & everything, whether supportive or contradictory can apply in whichever way they want it to. The difference between those Primitives & modern Scientists is that they refused to accept that the initial theory could be wrong & would go out of their way to make sure that it stayed that way. Even until relatively modern times the Church conciously gagged Gallileo when he made heretical claims that the Earth was not at the centre of the Universe and, in fact, orbited the Sun. He was considered a heretic because he made observations that didn't fit with the commonly accepted theory & came up with a modification to that theory that better fitted the evidence instead. To deny evidence based on theory is totally unscientific. To refuse to change a theory when there is conflicting evidence is also totally unscientific.

One could even take the Spiritual view point. If there were a God who sought to give Man the gift of free thought - the ability to observe & to question established doctrine, then is it not an insult to that Creator not to make use of those gifts?

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:04 pm

FourPart excellent post.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:08 pm

FourPart;1506618 wrote:

One could even take the Spiritual view point. If there were a God who sought to give Man the gift of free thought - the ability to observe & to question established doctrine, then is it not an insult to that Creator not to make use of those gifts?

The church had a lot to do with science taking a great turn in history and they gained the ability to break away from the church because they no longer wanted " Church dictated science and thought", so they left the Catholic church and scientific free thought began. This was called " The Scientific revolution." The Creator had science chained by the church , in order to create within science a burning commitment to never be chained again by religion.

The Creator knows how to create the abilities in man.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:42 pm

It hinges to a great part on your concept of God if you so believe.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:19 pm

Ted;1506645 wrote: It hinges to a great part on your concept of God if you so believe.

Correct. I have noticed that the God concept , exist like a microbe in matter; its there in the human consciousness , to one degree or another , or can we say to one concept or another! Its there in so far as many group efforts to excise it or totally eliminate it have failed.

The " God Drama" is a powerful inclination on humanity. Our concepts are a means of transport that keeps knowledge alive in areas that I know many define as " Folklore", I think God encompasses folklore and dominates the veins of history like no other concept I have examined. Its flow has been steady and uninterrupted ; a landslide of mystery and language that creates concepts ;

and the living book is still being written!

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:24 am

Hi mickiel. Still making stuff up I see.

If god was real you wouldn't need to ask the question all you seek is confirmation of your delusions you will find that in your delusion.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:21 am

gmc;1506659 wrote: Hi mickiel. Still making stuff up I see.

If god was real you wouldn't need to ask the question all you seek is confirmation of your delusions you will find that in your delusion.

Well I still get the message out ; I still transport this truth. I understand there will be those who do not believe it. Sand transports water and moves it around ; many do not believe that , but it is so. I am just not an exciting person to push the message.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:13 pm

My experience says that one does not need to push the message.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:16 pm

What truth???????

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:15 pm

Ted;1506693 wrote: My experience says that one does not need to push the message.

I got nothing better to do.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:11 pm

The Bible is a Jewish book and needs to be read through Jewish eyes.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:21 pm

Mickiel you have ignored my question. "What truth"/

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Feb 18, 2017 2:22 pm

Or should I have said "whose truth"?

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 10:29 am

Ted;1506827 wrote: Mickiel you have ignored my question. "What truth"/

I have not ignored it , I just wonder why you need to ask, as much as I have gave witness to this truth so much here. It just goes to show how your mind is not supposed to see this truth;

The bible

The universal salvation of all of humanity

That God is real

That Jesus is real

That God created the universe , earth , humanity and life

That humans were created to live , and live forever

That God is Love , Peace , Joy , Goodness , Gentleness and longsuffering

That our future is set

That the world is deceived

That God gets his way

But I understand that you will not see what I have listed; your not supposed too. That's why you ask " What truth."

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:26 pm

OK that is your truth.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:36 am

I see what I see ; there is no irony to the truth one understands. What I see , I see through a dark glass and can hardly see it. So even I have trouble seeing just a small bit of it. That's one reason why this seems like a myth to some , they can't see it. Its not a novel concept , and even believers see it differently.

One reason for this is that God hides himself. Its not meant for us to see yet.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sat May 20, 2017 3:18 pm

No unbeliever has to try and make God go away, he's already gone. And he will not come back until a future appointed time. You have all that time left, to do your damage.

Do what you can; because the time will come that your efforts will no longer be. This is your time to tell your side, take your course, preach your stuff and try your best.

Its like a flea trying to move a mountain.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat May 27, 2017 12:06 pm

Like that comparison of the flea. Michael there are some 22000 different Christian movements around the world and many of them seem to think that they and they alone have a solid handle on the truth. In view of that my PISTIS is to trust in God. . The problem with the Bible or should I say one of the problems is people think it does not allow for God to add new things. WDe read a 2000 year ole book and ignore the purpose for which men wrote it. The word"pistis" has been erroneously translated as faith when it really means trust and not right belief.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat May 27, 2017 1:16 pm

Well, it seems that I may be finding the answer to that question (or not) much sooner than I had anticipated for the last many years.

Mickiel · Post by **Mickiel** » Sun May 28, 2017 8:59 am

Ted;1509684 wrote: Like that comparison of the flea. Michael there are some 22000 different Christian movements around the world and many of them seem to think that they and they alone have a solid handle on the truth. In view of that my PISTIS is to trust in God. . The problem with the Bible or should I say one of the problems is people think it does not allow for God to add new things. WDe read a 2000 year ole book and ignore the purpose for which men wrote it. The word"pistis" has been erroneously translated as faith when it really means trust and not right belief.

Well i agree, the truth is what i call the present truth, its always what we presently understand, and it is more up to date than we are.