Brokeback Mountain

[Slade1]

Jives wrote: Since I have registered on this site I have been simply amazed with some of the common sensical and traditional views on display. I especially find the link between morals, religion and the sense of what is right & wrong astounding. But since it's so obvious how connected religion is to values, I don't know why I should be surprised.

If there is a God (and it's a sure thing) and these are the values that the all knowing, all seeing and wise creator harbours then he is a God that I wish to know. And he is obviously a God that many of you are in tune with.

I'd just like to say that I am very, very proud that there are still so many people that believe in the goodness and wholesomeness of the traditional values. It's also good to know that so many of you are willing to stand up against the onslaught of immorality and degradation so common today.

I'm just proud to know you!


Are these the same moral values that inspired people to don white hoods and go a lynchin'?

In some ways I agree with you, I do think that society is degrading, however I don't think that you can put homosexuality under that banner.

My opinion is that your way of thinking about gay people is a barrier that you need to cross, you're throwing them in with criminals and the like, this is quite simply inaccurate. Gay men & women are naturally that way, there is scientific proof of this. If there is a God he made them that way, you'd better live with it.

[Jives]

mrsK wrote: You are entitled to your opinion,that is fine.

I am entitled to mine.As far as God is concerned I believe in him & always will.

I do believe he created "Man & Woman" to be together,that is how I see things anyway & you are entitled to think I am a bigot,but I believe what I believe & no one will make me change my mind about that.:-6


Very well said, MrsK. I commend you on your sincerity and conviction.

[Accountable]

Slade1 wrote: Are these the same moral values that inspired people to don white hoods and go a lynchin'?



In some ways I agree with you, I do think that society is degrading, however I don't think that you can put homosexuality under that banner.



My opinion is that your way of thinking about gay people is a barrier that you need to cross, you're throwing them in with criminals and the like, this is quite simply inaccurate. Gay men & women are naturally that way, there is scientific proof of this. If there is a God he made them that way, you'd better live with it.
You're equating desire with behavior. Many people desire to do things that are socially unacceptable and choose either to perform the behavior out of the public eye/consciousness, or avoid the behavior altogether. S&M, for example.

[Slade1]

Accountable wrote: You're equating desire with behavior. Many people desire to do things that are socially unacceptable and choose either to perform the behavior out of the public eye/consciousness, or avoid the behavior altogether. S&M, for example.


I don't think that homosexuality is a desire or a behaviour, it's just the way they naturally are, just like you are heterosexual (I'm assuming), they are homosexual.

[Accountable]

Slade1 wrote: I don't think that homosexuality is a desire or a behaviour, it's just the way they naturally are, just like you are heterosexual (I'm assuming), they are homosexual.
Exactly! I desire to have sex with female. I do not behave on that desire in public - okay there was that one time in the Phillipines .... :rolleyes: ... Kidding! - because it is not acceptable. I personally disagree with the gov't granting me special privileges simply because I have a female room mate and a binding contract. I likewise disagree with homosexuals demanding acceptance of a largely heterosexual world. S&M enthusiasts don't. Why should they?



Behavior is always a choice.

[Accountable]

ArnoldLayne wrote: How does a person CHOOSE to become a homosexual ?. Why would someone choose to be a member of a group knowing that maybe half of your friends and family would dissown you.



How would you find a heterosexual man, coming to a choice to be gay, say, during the sixties and inviting prejudice and violence. Whereas to remain straight would be an easier choice.



A person no more has a choice to be gay any more than I, as a straight man, have a desire to be gay.
Don't confuse desire and behavior. I may desire to grab that pretty girl, but I don't. I control my behavior.



Being homosexual may or may not be a choice. I addressed that earlier. The behavior is absolutely a choice.

[Slade1]

Accountable wrote: Don't confuse desire and behavior. I may desire to grab that pretty girl, but I don't. I control my behavior.



Being homosexual may or may not be a choice. I addressed that earlier. The behavior is absolutely a choice.


Are you saying that someone may be gay but it's their choice to act on it?

[Accountable]

Slade1 wrote: Are you saying that someone may be gay but it's their choice to act on it?
Absolutely! Just as it is a priest's choice not to act on his sexual desires.

[Slade1]

Accountable wrote: Absolutely! Just as it is a priest's choice not to act on his sexual desires.


So is it therefore your opinion that they should go through life being lonely and miserable because they are resisting their human need for love and their physical urges for sexual contact?

[Accountable]

ArnoldLayne wrote: But they would say, why should not two consenting gay adults have the choice to act on the desires , just as straight people do.



Priests have different parameters. A duty to be faithful to their God, as it were


I've got no problem with that. Just as I have no problem with 2 (or more) S&M enthusiasts doing the same. My problem comes in when it becomes a political tool, or when people aver that simply because they have the desire, everyone should accept their behavior.



(I think I used 'aver' properly. :yh_think)

[Accountable]

Slade1 wrote: So is it therefore your opinion that they should go through life being lonely and miserable because they are resisting their human need for love and their physical urges for sexual contact?
Wow. Where'd you see that in my post??

[Slade1]

Accountable wrote: Wow. Where'd you see that in my post??


Umm...the middle bit?

[Accountable]

Slade1 wrote: Umm...the middle bit?
It's just that so many people seem to think that just because a person likes someone of the same sex, everyone must toss out hundreds of years of tradition and moral belief and welcome them - even to the point of accepting behavior not acceptable with heterosexual couples.

[Slade1]

Accountable wrote: It's just that so many people seem to think that just because a person likes someone of the same sex, everyone must toss out hundreds of years of tradition and moral belief and welcome them - even to the point of accepting behavior not acceptable with heterosexual couples.


Ah, now I see what you mean...No, I've just read it again and I don't know what you mean. When you say 'behaviour' what are you talking about specifically?

[Accountable]

Slade1 wrote: Ah, now I see what you mean...No, I've just read it again and I don't know what you mean. When you say 'behaviour' what are you talking about specifically?
Gay marriage & gay pride parades, off the top of my head. (sorry for the delay. Suppertime)

[Accountable]

ArnoldLayne wrote: You say that like they've only just arrived. Im sure homosexual desire was here from the very start of life itself.




Of course they've been here. That cements my point! Everybody loved Liberace. Few knew he was homosexual. Few cared. Same with Elton John, Sigfried & Roy, etc.

[Slade1]

Accountable wrote: Gay marriage & gay pride parades, off the top of my head. (sorry for the delay. Suppertime)


I don't see anything wrong with gay marriage at all, it's now legal over here and it's a civil ceremony, not a church thing if you're coming from a religious perspective. This makes perfect sense to me, it shows commitment to one partner, why shouldn't they get the rights that married couples do? My wife and I had a civil ceremony, neither of us are religious, my kids have not been christened or baptised, I was never christened or baptised, my wife was never christened or baptised.

[Slade1]

I wouldn't even know where to start on that one. So much to criticize I just wouldn't have the time, I would possibly still be at the computer by this time tomorrow (airborne?!? ha, ha, ha...)

I'm going to bed, it's all too much for me to take, hysteria is setting in...

[Katy1]

Far Rider wrote: Arnold thats an excellent question.

Heres my answer. Two reasons, first as I stated before they are unstable in their thinking, and can think of nothing else but their own pleasure and are willing to throw all normal sociaty by the wayside and go it alone (or with their mulitple partners).

Second, because of our gender confused world, divorce, and weakminded watered down fathers fearful of being real leaders in their homes, overt attacks on the family unit, (male/female committed marriages), the media and a small minority of people with a lot of power over weakminded socialized "can't we all just get along" attitudes of the hollywood elite and liberal thinktanks... we have this notion that its OK for a male to be feminized. "a metromale"....

What we have left is an arena of sexual deviancy, once considered criminal and gross and disgusting thats allowed to be openly talked about and "accepted not as criminal and gross" but a "Choice". Thats OK cause after all, we're really all just trying to get along. And I'll accept your behavior, if you accept mine.

Well its a load of crud.

That choice has caused Aids to be an epidemic. That choice has caused a threat to those in society (the majority) that is not sexually deviant to be faced with the posibility of HIV becoming pneumonicly spread like Tuberculosis.

Thats why the world is really trying to stop HIV... because if it mutates into a airborne disease we're all dead.

The abstract I posted was REAL, morbidity studies set homosexuals at 50 years of life. Try to get Life Insurance and see. The insurance companies wont gamble on it. That tells ya something.

Homosexaulity is wrong, and its so obvious, and I honestly can't believe how many folks out there refuse to see it, and just want to be nice (and theres nothing wrong with that) but that tolerance is going to kill our nation and possibly our world. It's already destroying us.

And thats my opinion... ok im ready to be blasted go ahead.


Hi,

I feel that I should just straighten a few things out here.

The vast majority of people who have HIV/AIDS are living in Africa. It's wiping whole regions out as we speak, entire families who have the disease. This isn't down to homosexual acts whatsoever. To be graphic (excuse me) it down to two things- 1) There is a tradition in many of these regions of men wanting 'dry' sex with a woman, more sensation apparently. They do this by applying herbal concoctions to the woman's vagina before intercourse. This causes there to be blood-semen/blood-blood contact. 2) Because the Catholic religion decries the use of condoms (and these are mostly Catholic countries we're talking about) many couple engage in anal sex as a form of contraception. the same applies re:blood-semen-blood contact. It's not about homosexual sodomy there and there are millions and millions of sufferers with the virus.

In our respective countries many heterosexual couple have the virus, they pass it to each other through heterosexual and bisexual sex, and yes, some gay couples pass it through their acts also.

But all this twittering on about the facts it's a gay thing (as if there were gay scientists all huddled around a test tube 'developing' the new 'gay' virus) is, I'm afraid not only wrong, it seems to me to be fueled by a dislike of homosexuals that would exist even if religion or HIV/AIDS had never come into the equation.

I don't think that gay men having feminised or weak father figures has anything to do with it either-('American Beauty' anyone?) I used to work with a gay man who hadn't even told his father because he was in the military and would never speak to him again. A very strict man who was obviously so hooked up on his own morals that he's disown his own son for them. Very sad.

Katy X

[Katy1]

Far Rider wrote: Im totally straight there Snooze... No anal sex at all, man or woman, no homosexual activity either with two women or two men.

Did you ever see the movie "analyze this" Robert Deniro and Billy Crystal... Billy makes a refernce to Deniro's wife fulfilling his (deniro's) oral needs... and Deniros character says... "hey no way.. my kids kiss my wife" ????

Yeah well.... there ya go.


Far Rider,

I assume that your against masturbation too then? I mean, people shake your hand dont they? ; )

[Jives]

Yet another good point, Far.

[Katy1]

Far Rider wrote: Katy Ive been all over Africa... Ive seen first hand the devastation caused by HIV. HIV in those regional areas is so out of control that and the disease is spread by all forms of sexual contact. The incubation period is on average three and a half years. Thats a long time to have it in a comunicable form and spread it when the victim does not have any symptoms.

Heres what Im saying... in Africa its spreading rapidly in all forms because of both heterosexual and homosexual contact... You can blame the catholic church if you want to but the populations with the largest HIV epidemic are largely non religious.

Now HIV in America is primarily spread by homosexual contact, second and it seems simulatneously it is spread by IV drug users who are also homosexual... or bisexual, whatever.

My point is... thats how its spreads period. It should be stopped. And further more if one was a homosexual by birth (which I dont believe) and they knew they were a vector for this disease and engaged in the activity anyway, well that should be criminal.

I do not hate gays, Im not a homophobe for all you new folks here. Im just saying that homosexual contact as a proven vector for the transmission of HIV.


Hi Far rider,

Are you suggesting that most IV users are gay or bisexual? Unless they are selling their body to get their drugs I know, at least in this country that that is not true. Are you suggesting that there is a link between people who decide to shoot up herion and people who are gay? TBH in this country the gay drug of choice is Ecstasy which comes in tablet form and possibly speed which is snorted or ingested so no IV involved there.

I have no problem admitting that anal sex is possibly the easiest way to catch the disease because of the type of contact but I don't think that HIV/AIDS can be labelled as the 'gay disease' any more. In fact the disease is 'feminising' if I can put it that was insofar as almost as many women now have the disease as men.

With regards to becoming gay as a choice well, there may be a very small percentage of men and women who through a screwed up childhood or abuse or even for political reasons 'decide' to change their sexuality. But recent scientific research on the brains of homosexuals who have passed away show that there is a portion of the brain that is significantly different to those of heterosexual men. A part that is in fact identical to female brains. Perhaps some men and women are actually born with the wrong brain. The gentials form in the womb a a much later time that the brain is and so it is very likely that in some cases there is a biological 'malfunction' and the wrong genitals are assigned to the wrong brain. It's not an outlandish theory, the human body is such a complex thing that there are so many subtle variations of our species. If you believe it is a choice then I'm assuming that the other female traits some gay men have are affected, such as 'camp' behaviour and a more gentle nature. And the same for lesbians, but in reverse?

Lastly the 'that is how it's spread...period' comment is made redundant by what you have said to the contrary. How can you say that when you have admitted that IV drug use spreads it. What about blood transfusions, or children who are born with it because their mother was a carrier.

If you want to be pedantic, in theory it would only take one gay man to engage in the act of sodomy....then his partner has sex with a heterosexual woman who then passes it to her child an heterosexual partner and there theoretically wouldn't need to be another gay person involved in the whole chain of event! Should we all abstain from sex then? because that's how it's spread? Maybe make blood transfusions a criminal act?

Katy

[Jives]

Katy1 wrote: Hi Far rider,

Are you suggesting that most IV users are gay or bisexual?


No he's suggesting that being homosexual is a dangerous activity and should not be glorified to children by Hollywood in the form of this movie. That's all. And that's enough. He's absolutely right too. Stay on topic, Katy.

But recent scientific research on the brains of homosexuals who have passed away show that there is a portion of the brain that is significantly different to those of heterosexual men. A part that is in fact identical to female brains.


Just as I pointed out earlier in this thread, homosexuality is a birht defect. Thank you for agreeing with me, Katy. So why should the mainstream of America accept a birth defect as "normality"? That's what this movie is trying to do, along with the pethora of gay TV shows.

As Far says, "I'm not afraid of homosexuals, I just don't like their agenda being shoved down my throat." I couldn't agree more. A small vocal, pathetically misguided or perhaps defective minority is shoving this crap down our throats. I'm incensed.

So let's agree, homosexuality is not normal. it is abnormal. it is a dangerous activity, which results in a shorter lifespan. It should not be condoned or accepted.

Lastly the 'that is how it's spread...period' comment is made redundant by what you have said to the contrary. How can you say that when you have admitted that IV drug use spreads it. What about blood transfusions, or children who are born with it because their mother was a carrier.


Stick to the point, Katy. This thread is about the assault on decency and morality that the homosexual agenda of hollywood is mounting. And I think "mounting" is an appropriate word here. Two men, formerly historic and heroic male role models are portrayed "mounting" each other. Gross, just gross. More than gross, disgusting and detestable. I prefer my heros remain heoric, if you don't mind.

Maybe make blood transfusions a criminal act?


No, let's just leave it the way it is. Sodomy is a criminal act. Therefore this movie glorifies criminals.

[Katy1]

Sorry, just a quick one....

If Africa is so riddled with HIV/AIDS does that mean that it is a predominantly gay country. You theory would support this. If this is the case, why do they have such dreadful problems with population control.

Also, there are examples of gay behaviour in the animal kingdom. Is this a conscious choice on their behalf?

This is lifted from the NG website. Couldn't get the link to show properly;

Homosexual Activity Among Animals Stirs Debate

James Owen in London

for National Geographic News

July 23, 2004

Birds do it, bees do it, even educated fleas do it. So go the lyrics penned by U.S. songwriter Cole Porter.

Porter, who first hit it big in the 1920s, wouldn't risk parading his homosexuality in public. In his day "the birds and the bees" generally meant only one thing”sex between a male and female.

But, actually, some same-sex birds do do it. So do beetles, sheep, fruit bats, dolphins, and orangutans. Zoologists are discovering that homosexual and bisexual activity is not unknown within the animal kingdom.



Roy and Silo, two male chinstrap penguins at New York's Central Park Zoo have been inseparable for six years now. They display classic pair-bonding behavior”entwining of necks, mutual preening, flipper flapping, and the rest. They also have sex, while ignoring potential female mates.

Wild birds exhibit similar behavior. There are male ostriches that only court their own gender, and pairs of male flamingos that mate, build nests, and even raise foster chicks.

Filmmakers recently went in search of homosexual wild animals as part of a National Geographic Ultimate Explorer documentary about the female's role in the mating game. (The film, Girl Power, will be screened in the U.S this Saturday at 8 p.m. ET, 5 p.m PT on MSNBC TV.)

The team caught female Japanese macaques engaged in intimate acts which, if observed in humans, would be in the X-rated category.

"The homosexual behavior that goes on is completely baffling and intriguing," says National Geographic Ultimate Explorer correspondent, Mireya Mayor. "You would have thought females that want to be mated, especially over their fertile period, would be seeking out males."

[Jives]

You're still off topic, katy. Both My point and Far's is that this gross, disgusting, heinous, despicable, and detestable movie takes what were formerly heroic male role models and glorifies them having anal sex. Children will see this movie, that is abhorrent to both of us.

Apparently, you have no problem teaching anal sex to children, though.

[Tombstone]

Jives wrote: You're still off topic, katy. Both My point and Far's is that this gross, disgusting, heinous, despicable, and detestable movie takes what were formerly heroic male role models and glorifies them having anal sex. Children will see this movie, that is abhorrent to both of us.

Apparently, you have no problem teaching anal sex to children, though.


Jives and Far,

I thought you might enjoy this. John Wayne Speaks Out:

http://www.digitalfog.com/index.php/200 ... peaks-out/

[Jives]

Far Rider wrote: Whenever I research or google a subject invlolviing the transmission of HIV. I get results from two primary areas. 1. is homosexual activity, assumed to be sodomy because ofo the type of vector of HIV transmission.


Thereby proving your point that homosexuality is a dangerous activity. Therefore is should not be glorified to the puclic for their own safety and the safety of our children.

What we need to do is set the person and personalities aside and stop the transmission of HIV, before we are like Botswania and have a 37.3% HIV rate.


An excellent argument for not condoning homosexuality as a society.

Each person that has it should stop having sex period.


Totally right!

Now before you jump to another conclusion I dont belive it will get that high in the US. but the possiblity is there.


Especially by glorifying homosexuality to the masses. That doesn't help the problem at all. If more people turn to homosexuality because of this movie, or even believe that it is an acceptable and "normal" lifestyle, that will make the problem worse, not better.

[Jives]

I'm boycotting it, and teaching every person I can find that it is bad.:rolleyes:

[Katy1]

Jives wrote: No he's suggesting that being homosexual is a dangerous activity and should not be glorified to children by Hollywood in the form of this movie. That's all. And that's enough. He's absolutely right too. Stay on topic, Katy.



Just as I pointed out earlier in this thread, homosexuality is a birht defect. Thank you for agreeing with me, Katy. So why should the mainstream of America accept a birth defect as "normality"? That's what this movie is trying to do, along with the pethora of gay TV shows.

As Far says, "I'm not afraid of homosexuals, I just don't like their agenda being shoved down my throat." I couldn't agree more. A small vocal, pathetically misguided or perhaps defective minority is shoving this crap down our throats. I'm incensed.

So let's agree, homosexuality is not normal. it is abnormal. it is a dangerous activity, which results in a shorter lifespan. It should not be condoned or accepted.



Stick to the point, Katy. This thread is about the assault on decency and morality that the homosexual agenda of hollywood is mounting. And I think "mounting" is an appropriate word here. Two men, formerly historic and heroic male role models are portrayed "mounting" each other. Gross, just gross. More than gross, disgusting and detestable. I prefer my heros remain heoric, if you don't mind.



No, let's just leave it the way it is. Sodomy is a criminal act. Therefore this movie glorifies criminals.




Hi Jives, nice to have your advice about topic straying and to have made you acquaintance.

Nice to see that you have differing views to Far rider who believes that it is a conscious choice. Yes, I do agree with you that true homosexuality is a variant of human physiology as is being born with 6 fingers or one leg but you wouldn't ostracize these people because of their differences.

I too believe that there is over representation of minorities (I can only speak from a UK perspective). Proportionally there are far more gay and black people in our media than is actually in our communities. With you all the way there Jives. I myself wonder why different cultures and lifestyles are thrust upon us. Maybe it's done to stop intolerance but I actually think it rouses the opposite.

The Nazi's didn't like people who 'weren't normal' or 'abnormal'....oh, what the hey why not 'sub human'? They thought that anything other than a genetically perfect human had the right to exist. Hmmm....

Do you know what? I getting pretty pissed of about some of the morality eroding that's happening in our society. I don't like the fact that porn is sold in our local shops and that you cannot switch on the TV (and kids programmes) or see a billboard without a sexually provocative image beaming back at you. Sex sells everything and it would be nice if sex was something that was special, TBH I think it would make it far more exciting! Everyone is so damned desensitised to it.

And I'd prefer it if you didn't bark orders, it's really not polite.

[Jives]

(Jives settles into his easy chair to watch some TV)

Let's see....Hmmm, there's "Queer eye for the straight guy"

Nope.

I know how about a home improvement show.

(Jive changes the channel)

Hey! Is that designer a homosexual?

(Jives changes the channel again)

What the...? Another homosexual show?

I guess I'd better go see a movie at the theater.

(Jives checks the schedule)

Let's see..."Brokeback Moutain" - Two cowboys screw each other anally.

Oh Heck no! What else is there?

"Transamerica" - A guy readies to have his penis cut off so that he can become a "woman."

WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH OUR COUNTRY??!!!!!!

I GIVE UP!

I'm just going to go outside and work on the lawn. (sigh)

[Accountable]

Just dropped in to say that I just found out that both main characters are married - meaning in the movie. That means that their homosexual tryst is actually an adulterous affair for both of them.



Somebody tell me what the positives are in this movie, please!!