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flopstock;1412189 wrote: Has anyone actually stated officially that this nurse killed herself?

Or is it just presumed?


Officialdom doesn't do that until an inquest has made such a determination.

I've looked Into Royal Protocol In such cases.

Apparently, there would have been a detective on the ward as Bryn agreed. Protocol apparently states that any calls to the main switchboard must be put through to the detective and not another nurse. It Is to avoid tabloid hacks phoning up and getting Information on Royal patients.

The fault lies with the nurse If this Is the case.

The two radio presenters have spoken:

'It was meant to be a silly little prank. No-one could have predicted what would happen': Michael and Mel - the interviews in full | Mail Online

Týr;1412209 wrote: Even if it did I don't think one can blame the first nurse for what may easily have been a predictably panicked reaction, or the second for speaking to someone she thought was cleared.


I wouldn't want to be treated by a nurse that could be panicked by a phone call.

Bruv;1412214 wrote: I wouldn't want to be treated by a nurse that could be panicked by a phone call.


Exactly. Or one that's so emotionally fragile that she'd think suicide is the best response to a situation like this. But now I'm repeating myself.

There's a huge amount we don't know at this stage. While everyone Is so quick to assume she was a diligent nurse there's every possibility she had made previous mistakes at the job.

SnoozeAgain;1412216 wrote: Exactly. Or one that's so emotionally fragile that she'd think suicide is the best response to a situation like this. But now I'm repeating myself.
I know what you mean about repeating yourself.

Now it seems to have taken on another tack, about bullying, what's that all about ?

It was supposed to be humourous, humour is mostly a personal taste, much humour is about 'bullying', they even have names like 'slapstick' and 'pratt fall' to prove the point.

It is a hoax call that went tragically wrong, we are only getting the 'Official' story, officials always cover their own backs.

Was she living apart from her family? Husband & children in Bristol & she was living in London? Her photos show a serious demeanor and she clearly took the episode to heart. I don't see happiness in her face even prior to this event.

The whole affair was probably the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

tabby;1412225 wrote: Was she living apart from her family? Husband & children in Bristol & she was living in London? Her photos show a serious demeanor and she clearly took the episode to heart. I don't see happiness in her face even prior to this event.

The whole affair was probably the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back. I agree with you.

Kieth Vaz has just been on the news and absolutely Insists the hospital hands over everything they know about the nurse.... damn right.

tabby;1412225 wrote: Was she living apart from her family? Husband & children in Bristol & she was living in London? Her photos show a serious demeanor and she clearly took the episode to heart. I don't see happiness in her face even prior to this event.



The whole affair was probably the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.


the impression I got(from what I've read) is that there is a nurses residence attached to the hospital. I imagined it was a fairly common practice or the hospital would not go to the expense.



I do know that the husband of my friend at work comes home after working 4 10 hour shifts each week. He works in Chicago, over 125 miles each way - so an apartment split with a couple of other fellas is the most economical solution.



I also think that if the press were being as invasive as they appear to be, I would not head home and put my family in for it.



But seriously folks, are we now judging each others mental stability based on a drivers license, passport or ID photo? Seriously? lock me up now!

SnoozeAgain;1412216 wrote: But now I'm repeating myself.
An otiose comment at best.

flopstock;1412233 wrote:



But seriously folks, are we now judging each others mental stability based on a drivers license, passport or ID photo? Seriously? lock me up now!


I don't think anyone has done that and I know for certain that I didn't. I've seen what are obvious family photos of her and she has a sadness about her.

I'm well aware of how circumstances can lead family members to resort to living apart for job's sake and I also know that it's never an optimal condition and can result in yet another stress for the individuals involved.

tabby;1412238 wrote: I don't think anyone has done that and I know for certain that I didn't. I've seen what are obvious family photos of her and she has a sadness about her.



I'm well aware of how circumstances can lead family members to resort to living apart for job's sake and I also know that it's never an optimal condition and can result in yet another stress for the individuals involved.


A neighbour, known as Maxine, said: 'She was a lovely woman, just so smiley and bubbly.

Read more: Jacintha Saldanha's husband reveals his heartbreak over her death | Mail Online

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Her neighbor's perception doesn't mean a thing to me. People "say" all sorts of things about people once they're dead but in the end each of us will still have our own personal perceptions. It shouldn't be so annoying to you that I commented that I perceive her as having a sad aura about her.

She's the least "bubbly" looking person I've ever seen.

tabby;1412238 wrote: I don't think anyone has done that and I know for certain that I didn't. I've seen what are obvious family photos of her and she has a sadness about her.



I'm well aware of how circumstances can lead family members to resort to living apart for job's sake and I also know that it's never an optimal condition and can result in yet another stress for the individuals involved.


I am the joke in our family photos. I look worse when I try to smile than I do if I don't and the odds of getting a shot of me with both eyes open at the same time are slim and none.



And speaking of photos, I can see the pain and anguish on the faces of the DJs in photos of them.



It's really just so sad all around. I think her death quickly adjusted general attitudes toward herself and the prank. IMO she probably faced suspension if not firing(I hope someone talks with the other nurse about their treatment) and the DJs were be lauded everywhere.



I think there needed to be discipline all around. I'm one of those morbid types that immediately wondered WTF they were thinking broadcasting private patient information.

I don't suppose anyone would care to agree with me that radio phone hoax calls are disgusting beyond words and that no reasonable member of society would regard them for one moment as either defensible or amusing.

flopstock;1412248 wrote: I am the joke in our family photos. I look worse when I try to smile than I do if I don't and the odds of getting a shot of me with both eyes open at the same time are slim and none.



And speaking of photos, I can see the pain and anguish on the faces of the DJs in photos of them.



It's really just so sad all around. I think her death quickly adjusted general attitudes toward herself and the prank. IMO she probably faced suspension if not firing(I hope someone talks with the other nurse about their treatment) and the DJs were be lauded everywhere.



I think there needed to be discipline all around. I'm one of those morbid types that immediately wondered WTF they were thinking broadcasting private patient information.


I agree with you here. I know the PR from the hospital indicates that they were fully supportive of her but the hospital is a business like any other and first and foremost they're going to be angry that an employee's decisions reflected badly on them.

As for what they were thinking when broadcasting private patient information, I don't think "thinking" played a large part in any of this.

And while I'm at it, might I criticize the use of "gutted" when used by Australian Disc Jockeys as an insight into their feelings? Whales are flensed, game is gutted (with a gralloching knife), DJs are upset. Were DJs gutted they would presumably be commenting on a recent bout of self-indulgent disemboweling rather than marketing their image with a view to subsequent financial gain.

The mere fact that Ms Boop's thread has attracted so many replies from members must surely mean, if nothing else, that the vast majority here have been touched in some way or another by this lady's untimely death.

There is nothing anyone on the planet can do or say that can change what happened. It would therefore be best if all those involved in the tragedy in some way or other, now put all their energy on ensuring that something like this never happens again.

Týr;1412250 wrote: I don't suppose anyone would care to agree with me that radio phone hoax calls are disgusting beyond words and that no reasonable member of society would regard them for one moment as either defensible or amusing.


I tend to agree with you. This one wasn't intended to be cruel or mean spirited but it was thoughtless at best.

A lot of morning radio shows that I used to hear while driving to work were primarily a bunch of coarse people pretending to have "personality" by being overly loud and exhibiting the sort of sophomoric humor befitting a college fraternity. It sounds as though these Australian DJs were of that ilk. If acting whacky and "wild and crazy" draws listeners in, then they're going to go for it at any expense.

Týr;1412253 wrote: And while I'm at it, might I criticize the use of "gutted" when used by Australian Disc Jockeys as an insight into their feelings? Whales are flensed, game is gutted (with a gralloching knife), DJs are upset. Were DJs gutted they would presumably be commenting on a recent bout of self-indulgent disemboweling rather than marketing their image with a view to subsequent financial gain.


Can't they feel emotionally gutted if not literally (physically)? An enormous blow can leave a person feeling pretty hollow.

Týr;1412253 wrote: And while I'm at it, might I criticize the use of "gutted" when used by Australian Disc Jockeys as an insight into their feelings? Whales are flensed, game is gutted (with a gralloching knife), DJs are upset. Were DJs gutted they would presumably be commenting on a recent bout of self-indulgent disemboweling rather than marketing their image with a view to subsequent financial gain.


I have no trouble imagining that they feel gutted(as I imagine the emotion).

I can imagine how the nurse must have felt.

I can imagine how Kate must have felt to realize there is no place that is safe from intrusion.

I can imagine how the hospital felt both before and after her death.

I can imagine how the surviving nurse is feeling.



IMO, that surviving nurse is in the drivers seat at this moment.

I think all the planets lined up and all the stars crossed to allow this to happen they way it did. Reporters report, journalist write, shock jocks shock. What ended up happening is tragic and sad. Imagine that, life keeps happening all around us just when we want everything to be rosy. For all we know the nurse was being harassed by unknown entities which was actually the cause of suicide and not necessarily majorly concerned with the DJ's actions. We may never know. I don't blame any of the parties associated with this ordeal, sometimes sad things happen for no apparent reason. No need to cause more ruin than has already occurred. IMO

tabby;1412256 wrote: Can't they feel emotionally gutted if not literally (physically)? An enormous blow can leave a person feeling pretty hollow.


Metaphorically I suppose they could in which case they'd be careful to say they felt emotionally gutted, but it would be an ugly expression which would diminish in impact were anyone unwise enough to employ it twice.

YZGI;1412260 wrote: I think all the planets lined up and all the stars crossed to allow this to happen they way it did. Reporters report, journalist write, shock jocks shock. What ended up happening is tragic and sad. Imagine that, life keeps happening all around us just when we want everything to be rosy. For all we know the nurse was being harassed by unknown entities which was actually the cause of suicide and not necessarily majorly concerned with the DJ's actions. We may never know. I don't blame any of the parties associated with this ordeal, sometimes sad things happen for no apparent reason. No need to cause more ruin than has already occurred. IMO


A great summary of the whole sad business!

What the hell does It matter what terminology they use to describe their feelings?

I watched the Interview on TV lunchtime and both were visibly genuinely distressed, crying and shaking. The young girl had to be asked If she was In a fit state to carry on with the Interview. They also seemed genuinely stunned and shocked. Both are having counselling.

Who the hell cares what words they used. They expressed apologies to the family of the nurse and for all the trouble they have caused all Involved..... That's the most heartfelt apology I've seen In my life and It's all that matters. what words they used Is pedantic crap.

Family believe nurse Jacintha Saldanha died of 'shame' over prank phone call

A report that doesn't really need any comment at all.

The family believe the nurse died of shame.

The police stated today the nurses death remains unexplained and are waiting on autopsy results...

What else is the family going to "believe"? That she was mentally ill and shouldn't have been working in a stressful job away from home?

SnoozeAgain;1412318 wrote: What else is the family going to "believe"? That she was mentally ill and shouldn't have been working in a stressful job away from home?


You don't really do empathy much, do you.

Týr;1412319 wrote: You don't really do empathy much, do you.


Empathy is a two way street......no I don't mean that exactly....hold up........Empathy should encompass everybody involved in an event......better ?

Bruv;1412344 wrote: Empathy is a two way street......no I don't mean that exactly....hold up........Empathy should encompass everybody involved in an event......better ?


Merely on a simple point of fact, that's utter bunkum.

Shouldn't that have a IMHO or some such thing added to it ?

Bruv;1412348 wrote: Shouldn't that have a IMHO or some such thing added to it ?


No of course it shouldn't, it's just an indication of what the word means. Empathy is the ability of one person to understand and appreciate the mental state of another, it has nothing two-way about it in the slightest. It's what empaths do. The person being understood or appreciated can have all the awareness of a housebrick, it makes no difference whatever. It's not my opinion, it's what the word means. The thing being understood or appreciated doesn't even need to be alive, empathy describes the spectator's sympathy with a work of art in just the same way as with another person.

Bruv;1412344 wrote: Empathy is a two way street......no I don't mean that exactly....hold up........Empathy should encompass everybody involved in an event......better ?


Spot on....

When empathy Is directed solely In one direction, It becomes bias, bigotry, failure to see outside the box, and one sidedness.

True empathy come from someone who can empathise with all people Involved without favouritism and bias.

Týr;1412319 wrote: You don't really do empathy much, do you.


So you don't agree she was mentally ill? Being pragmatic isn't mutually exclusive with empathy.

SnoozeAgain;1412360 wrote: So you don't agree she was mentally ill? Being pragmatic isn't mutually exclusive with empathy.


My own opinion, founded on nothing but what I've seen in the news reports, is that she was a dedicated professional with no previous mental issues who reacted very badly to a personal sense of shame at having let down those she worked for. I've no more basis for saying that than anyone here has for any other opinion but it fits entirely with what those who knew her have said, unlike the "bomb waiting to go off" notions some here have put forward.

The deceased worked as a nurse in a rather upmarket hospital in the UK. Should they then be held responsible because they employed a mentally ill person?

Aussie DJ scandal: Does radio share the blame? - CNN.com

Bruv;1412344 wrote: Empathy is a two way street......no I don't mean that exactly....hold up........Empathy should encompass everybody involved in an event......better ?


Týr;1412347 wrote: Merely on a simple point of fact, that's utter bunkum.
Shouldn't that have a IMHO or some such thing added to it ?
Týr;1412350 wrote: No of course it shouldn't, it's just an indication of what the word means. Empathy is the ability of one person to understand and appreciate the mental state of another, it has nothing two-way about it in the slightest. It's what empaths do. The person being understood or appreciated can have all the awareness of a housebrick, it makes no difference whatever. It's not my opinion, it's what the word means. The thing being understood or appreciated doesn't even need to be alive, empathy describes the spectator's sympathy with a work of art in just the same way as with another person.


The poorly worded first post was not meant to mean that empathy was returned or shared, like a hand shake between two entities.

It made the point that all parties involved in an event should recieve the same empathetic consideration, not just the ones that you feel most empahy with.

By that I mean the DJ's ought to get some empathy too.

Bruv;1412425 wrote: By that I mean the DJ's ought to get some empathy too.If they leave radio presenting for a new career I'll empathize with them. If they cash in on their increased public profile I'll not. How's that for a deal.

Týr;1412433 wrote: If they leave radio presenting for a new career I'll empathize with them. If they cash in on their increased public profile I'll not. How's that for a deal.
I wonder if Ken Bruce cares either way.

Who are we to do deals with other peoples lives ?

Bruv;1412442 wrote: I wonder if Ken Bruce cares either way.

Who are we to do deals with other peoples lives ?


You wanted me to avoid pissing on the prats so I made a fair offer.

The very existence of their jobs disgusts me, regardless of who fills the role.

Let's establish some facts before anyone seeks enjoyment from destroying these two young peoples lives. The show including the prank was part of a format predetermined by a broadcasting team with the emphasis on team. The call was taped and the decision to broadcast the tape lay with the radio producer and the radio lawyer. These two young people are not solely responsible for the tape being aired so on no account should they shoulder all responsibility. Royal procedure dictates that all calls are passed to the royal patients security on the ward to fend off the press. Had the nurse passed the call to the detective, it would not have gone any further. That it appears to be the sole fault of the hospital for not training switchboard staff on protocol when a royal is in residence. There is blame all round but expecting the presenters to bear the weight of other failures is just vindictiveness and a wanting for some perverse kind of revenge. This is why world support for the pair is growing. The witch hunt does not sit comfortably with most rational thinking people but those soaking up every very carefully worded gutter press article as to how her family are suffering are lining the coffers of the disgusting lowlife media who initially hounded the two nurses, only switching their attention to the presenters once the nurse was dead. Anyone who seriously believes the tugging of heart strings of those articles are because the British press now suddenly care about the family of the dead nurse who they initially went after needs a reality check. Along with the likes of the oily Kieth Vaz who comes out of the woodwork whenever there is a press opportunity, the media are now only interested in selling more newspapers and Kieth Vaz seeks reelection.

Týr;1412445 wrote: You wanted me to avoid pissing on the prats so I made a fair offer.

The very existence of their jobs disgusts me, regardless of who fills the role.


An arrogance oozes from every word, if not arrogance whatever the opposite of empathy is.

The sort of statement on a par with "Let them eat cake"

Bruv;1412474 wrote: An arrogance oozes from every word, if not arrogance whatever the opposite of empathy is.

The sort of statement on a par with "Let them eat cake"


It's nothing of the sort. The notion of an aware person, the DJ, hoaxing an unaware unpracticed member of the public, regardless of whether permission is subsequently sought, is nauseating.

Earlier in the thread, the pair were crucified for going into hiding but having come out to the public and laid themselves bare on a global scale, giving the most genuine apology i have also ever seen, the call for blood remains. If anything, the pair would have learnt a great deal from this and will make them better radio presenters and better people with far greater experience. Ideally they should remain in radio and i hope they do. Calling for their loss of income and destitution compounds the misery they are already in. Those who seek this must remember, there for the grace of god, go they.

The young radio presenters have received death threats and have been moved to a safe house and appointed body guards. Their lives will never be the same all for a silly prank that they could never have foreseen the outcome of. They offered a genuine public apology but for some this was never enough and continue to seek revenge and retribution. Are the critics happy now i wonder?

Prank DJs Moved to Safehouse - The Daily Beast