Proof of God

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:04 pm

JAB;880362 wrote: After what you posted to me in a pm, you can still ask me this? Not a chance.

i did not understand what you meant by saying that

but i dont ask you to give me a chance , i ask you to give to yourself a chance

i honestly dont want myself, my love ones and then anyone walk to endless fire

that is all

what makes you stop looking for the truth

and i am telling that islam is open to discuss

yaaarrrgg · Post by **yaaarrrgg** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:23 am

cloverleaf;880382 wrote: i did not understand what you meant by saying that

but i dont ask you to give me a chance , i ask you to give to yourself a chance

i honestly dont want myself, my love ones and then anyone walk to endless fire

that is all

what makes you stop looking for the truth

and i am telling that islam is open to discuss

endless fire... perhaps you mean: :-6

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:42 am

yaaarrrgg;880594 wrote: endless fire... perhaps you mean: :-6

why dont you take it serious for once

i am telling you about something that you dont have idea and danger that subject to discuss

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:08 pm

cloverleaf;881007 wrote: why dont you take it serious for once

i am telling you about something that you dont have idea and danger that subject to discuss

We've had too many Christian Fundamentalists visit the board and tell us we are headed for Hell and Damnation if we don't live by their values to jump to attention when someone else tries to push yet another route to salvation as "The One And Only Way".

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:18 pm

jester:-6

Let us not forget the atrocities committed by Christians. Islam does not hold a monopoly on such behaviour.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:40 pm

Clover:-6

You are sounding like a Christian fundamentalist and have the same message. The only difference is the religion behind the claims. Fundamentalists in all of the great faiths make exactly the same claim. Why should anyone accept your claim over anyone else's claim?

You plead that we give it a chance. Why should I? If I am happy and content with my faith why should I take on a different one?

With all due respect this is nonsense. We must learn to respect each other and the choices that each other makes.

It is a little discouraging to hear of fundamentalists blowing up embassies and killing innocent folks for whatever reason. If God/Allah is almighty than he does not need either myself or you or anyone else to fight His/Her battles. This does not lead to justice or compassion. In fact it is criminal. I do not slight anyone's religion and expect them to do the same for me and everyone else. Religion leading to murder and killing is contrary to the will of God/Allah. This I have received from Muslims here in Canada.

Fundamentalists of whatever faith are dangerous, misguided people.

Shalom

Ted:-6

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:16 am

cloverleaf;880382 wrote: i did not understand what you meant by saying that

but i dont ask you to give me a chance , i ask you to give to yourself a chance

i honestly dont want myself, my love ones and then anyone walk to endless fire

that is all

what makes you stop looking for the truth

and i am telling that islam is open to discuss

like many christians you also make the assumption that people are agnostic or atheist because they don't know anything about the religion, or haven't read the bible/koran. Whereas the reality is that we do, quite often have studied extensively, but have decided it is not something we believe in and that it is not the word of god.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 7:23 am

The question should be where did god come from ?

( So Then Where Did God Come From ?)

The Biblical Concepts Of God Was Created In The Hearts And Minds Of Their Authors And As These Authors Became Aithentic , Their Documents Became Authentic And With The Pages Of Their Docments Called Scripture, God Was Born If You Try To Question A Theologian Or Religious Scholar On The Subject Of God , And Ask Them Not To Use Their Bible, They Would Not Be AbleTo Do It For It Was These Authors Who Made The Opening Statement In The Old Testament Of The HebrewOr Jews Also Called The Torah . In The Beginning God ( Elohim ) Created The Heavens And The Earth '' Or Genesis 1 ; 1 And '' In The Beginning Was The Word And The Word Was With God ( Thehos ) And The Word Was God ( Thehos ) The Same Was In The Beginning With God ( Thehos ) . All Things Was Made By Him And Without Him Was Not Anything Made That Was Made ' In The New Testament Of The Christian's John 1 ; 1 - 3 Authored By Men Who Say They Were Inspired From On High To Teach Man Of A God , Who Is Every Man's Personal God , Yet Mediators Were Necessary As If God Could Not Merely Think His Being Into Everyone's Heart Without The Stress And Strain Of Religious Instructions .

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 11:35 am

It is interesting that there is evidence that even the folks in the "stone age" believed in a God.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sat Jul 05, 2008 6:01 pm

Ted;908368 wrote: It is interesting that there is evidence that even the folks in the "stone age" believed in a God.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Keyword here ( Believe -Yes ) .

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:09 pm

Daniyal;907988 wrote: The question should be where did god come from ?

( So Then Where Did God Come From ?)

The Biblical Concepts Of God Was Created In The Hearts And Minds Of Their Authors And As These Authors Became Aithentic , Their Documents Became Authentic And With The Pages Of Their Docments Called Scripture, God Was Born If You Try To Question A Theologian Or Religious Scholar On The Subject Of God , And Ask Them Not To Use Their Bible, They Would Not Be AbleTo Do It For It Was These Authors Who Made The Opening Statement In The Old Testament Of The HebrewOr Jews Also Called The Torah . In The Beginning God ( Elohim ) Created The Heavens And The Earth '' Or Genesis 1 ; 1 And '' In The Beginning Was The Word And The Word Was With God ( Thehos ) And The Word Was God ( Thehos ) The Same Was In The Beginning With God ( Thehos ) . All Things Was Made By Him And Without Him Was Not Anything Made That Was Made ' In The New Testament Of The Christian's John 1 ; 1 - 3 Authored By Men Who Say They Were Inspired From On High To Teach Man Of A God , Who Is Every Man's Personal God , Yet Mediators Were Necessary As If God Could Not Merely Think His Being Into Everyone's Heart Without The Stress And Strain Of Religious Instructions .

Question where did God come from is honestly silly question to me i think you should answer this what makes you to beleive or accept its proof of God , you just make sure what will make you feel yes that is the answer and stop you to ask

more about something that you will never know if there are endless questions why would you wonder where did God come from

asking where did God come from is the same question , is the universe endless? if it is how that is possible if not what behind the universe

religons especially has some answers about these if you want to take anyway

my opinion is to compare all big religions (islam christianity judiaism) what they say and try to find your own way , just dont make mistake or be late

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:57 pm

cloverleaf;911169 wrote: Question where did God come from is honestly silly question to me i think you should answer this what makes you to beleive or accept its proof of God , you just make sure what will make you feel yes that is the answer and stop you to ask

more about something that you will never know if there are endless questions why would you wonder where did God come from

asking where did God come from is the same question , is the universe endless? if it is how that is possible if not what behind the universe

religons especially has some answers about these if you want to take anyway

my opinion is to compare all big religions (islam christianity judiaism) what they say and try to find your own way , just dont make mistake or be late

Are you did was side step the question like most believer do !

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 6:39 pm

Daniyal;911207 wrote: Are you did was side step the question like most believer do !

I dont try to ignore any possible question but that question is meaningless

do you beleive in God exist? or just because of you could not find the answer you have just asked then you decided to be atheist?

please just tell me what do you really want? do you want answers for your questions or do you want people who beleives in God should not beleive because of there is not answer for that question?

or are you the one of them who are lost in space with meaningless questions

i describe those people like this

there is a box and there are 9999999999999.... white balls but just one or maybe 2 black balls and they talk all about those black balls ignore all white balls

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 8:44 pm

cloverleaf;911430 wrote: I dont try to ignore any possible question but that question is meaningless

do you beleive in God exist? or just because of you could not find the answer you have just asked then you decided to be atheist?

please just tell me what do you really want? do you want answers for your questions or do you want people who beleives in God should not beleive because of there is not answer for that question?

or are you the one of them who are lost in space with meaningless questions

i describe those people like this

there is a box and there are 9999999999999.... white balls but just one or maybe 2 black balls and they talk all about those black balls ignore all white balls

Like I Said And the answer is in post 162 By the way ...

Belief & Believe" are two of the most deceptive words in religion. Belief is ignorance. Belief is to ignore the facts, intentionally or ignorantly. If one has to believe, it means he or she does not know, and if one does not know, that is ignorance. Anyone can believe anything and this means that a person can believe, and be 100% wrong. But knowledge is knowing and knowledge is correct information. "To know" gives one confidence, but belief infers doubt

To believe is to accept things that you do NOT know. Either you know or you don't. Once you know - then you no longer have to believe and belief is the fuel of most religions. Belief = acceptance of things that you doen't know ..

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:08 pm

Daniyal;911516 wrote: Like I Said And the answer is in post 162 By the way ...

Belief & Believe" are two of the most deceptive words in religion. Belief is ignorance. Belief is to ignore the facts, intentionally or ignorantly. If one has to believe, it means he or she does not know, and if one does not know, that is ignorance. Anyone can believe anything and this means that a person can believe, and be 100% wrong. But knowledge is knowing and knowledge is correct information. "To know" gives one confidence, but belief infers doubt

To believe is to accept things that you do NOT know. Either you know or you don't. Once you know - then you no longer have to believe and belief is the fuel of most religions. Belief = acceptance of things that you doen't know ..

I ll tell you one of the biggest secrets of life right now.

all the things that you know is belief in the end

physique, chemistry etc. all are belief in the end

do you know why?

because in the end all scientific works build on the hypothesis that there is system in this universe, that system is like

every H2O is water (which does not have to be) but science accept it as rule and build the chemistry on it

because the main idea is this

if n times H2O sampes is water they accept all h2o is water but according to philosophic approch you can test n times h2o and see they become water but that does not 100 % prove n+1 st try will be water because you dont know because you did not test it

so to do scientific researches you should ignore this true philosophic approch and accept there is system in the universe

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:21 am

cloverleaf;911560 wrote: I ll tell you one of the biggest secrets of life right now.

all the things that you know is belief in the end

physique, chemistry etc. all are belief in the end

do you know why?

because in the end all scientific works build on the hypothesis that there is system in this universe, that system is like

every H2O is water (which does not have to be) but science accept it as rule and build the chemistry on it

because the main idea is this

if n times H2O sampes is water they accept all h2o is water but according to philosophic approch you can test n times h2o and see they become water but that does not 100 % prove n+1 st try will be water because you dont know because you did not test it

so to do scientific researches you should ignore this true philosophic approch and accept there is system in the universe

Where Does The Bible Fit In All This Scientific Data , , Which Is Dis-Proing Its ?Where does the bible fit in all this scientific data, Which is Dis-Proving It's Validity ? If you look at the construction of the bible . You can see that it was written by four different authors . You have the '' J '' text '' which is the '' Jehovah Torah where the name '' Jehovah '' is always mentioned . You have the '' P '' text ''which is the '' Priest '' Torah with opinions in support of Abiathar and Nathan , The two Priest . You have the '' E '' text '' which is the Eloheem Torah and you have the '' D '' text ''

which is the Deuteronomy . Moses '' Version of theTorah . All these are different stories of the same events in the bible .

Yet written in different ways. Sometimes different languages . Which was intertwined and woven in each other , Placed above each other , and made to appear Authentic as if it is The Holy Halios Book Papyrus Of God . This Book continually tell you that these different versions andtext , Which if you begin to read with an open eye or TheEye Of Ra .

You will see that they were taken from the Babylonian Stories . The Curse Seed Of The Canaanites Stories , and the Egiptian stories . Showing you that these were the major influence of the Israelites . Which was organized by the 46 Nicean Council , And formed their Holy Book which is called today the bible . Whether it be The Torah , The Gospels , The Evangel -- Revelation , The New Testament , And The Old Testament . So when you're trying to explain that there is no Validity in The Bible , You have to do your ReSearch and cross examine each story in the bible , And cross examine each name in the bible . For some names were mentioned Twice , Or they were mentioned out of place , or the stories contradict each other , As in the story of Mizraim and the migration of the sons of Noah because they would not be able to explain certain things , They purposely leave out the fact that the family of Noah were in Aftica first .

Then landed in the Mountains of Ararat , Not one Mountain , But Mountains as the Bible states Genesis 8;4 . Then migrated back to Egipt again . With the exception of one son named Japheth . Who lived in the Tents of Shem Genesis 9;27 , Which is why you find Nimrod in Genesis 10;8 . As being a mighty hunter . A Ghibbore '' Mighty One ''. Building Towers Such As The Tower Of Babel .

When in itself is '' Bab '' Door '' And El '' The Doorway To El '' . To reach heaven . However . The God , Be He Yahweh Or Adonai of the Hebrew , Didn't Approve of this so he came down and confounded their tongue , In that part of The Planet Earth of Babylon , Not The Whole Earth .

So these people were all one big family who separated after the flood of the noah story . and if you look in Psalms 78;51 You can see that they place Egipt , which is Mizraim The Son Of Ham And Ham As Being The Same , Egiptians Psalms 78; 51 , Again , this quote makes Mizraim and Ham Both Egiptians along with Psalms 105; 23 . Also read Jeremaih 46;9 .

Mentions Libya , originally called Tehnu as Phut , Who is the son of Ham Genesis 10;6 along side of Ethiopia as Cush . Then the Egiptian term Kemite or Khemet predates the bible or hebraic name Ham as mentioned above thus the original Hamites , Cu****es , and Mizraimites had to have been according to their own Bible . In North East Africa's Libya Extending from what is called Egipt today , down past Sudan , called Ham Genesis 10;6 , And on into Ethiopia called Cush Genesis 2;13 in the bible .

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 10:00 am

Daniyal;911630 wrote: Where Does The Bible Fit In All This Scientific Data , , Which Is Dis-Proing Its ?Where does the bible fit in all this scientific data, Which is Dis-Proving It's Validity ? If you look at the construction of the bible . You can see that it was written by four different authors . You have the '' J '' text '' which is the '' Jehovah Torah where the name '' Jehovah '' is always mentioned . You have the '' P '' text ''which is the '' Priest '' Torah with opinions in support of Abiathar and Nathan , The two Priest . You have the '' E '' text '' which is the Eloheem Torah and you have the '' D '' text ''

which is the Deuteronomy . Moses '' Version of theTorah . All these are different stories of the same events in the bible .

Yet written in different ways. Sometimes different languages . Which was intertwined and woven in each other , Placed above each other , and made to appear Authentic as if it is The Holy Halios Book Papyrus Of God . This Book continually tell you that these different versions andtext , Which if you begin to read with an open eye or TheEye Of Ra .

You will see that they were taken from the Babylonian Stories . The Curse Seed Of The Canaanites Stories , and the Egiptian stories . Showing you that these were the major influence of the Israelites . Which was organized by the 46 Nicean Council , And formed their Holy Book which is called today the bible . Whether it be The Torah , The Gospels , The Evangel -- Revelation , The New Testament , And The Old Testament . So when you're trying to explain that there is no Validity in The Bible , You have to do your ReSearch and cross examine each story in the bible , And cross examine each name in the bible . For some names were mentioned Twice , Or they were mentioned out of place , or the stories contradict each other , As in the story of Mizraim and the migration of the sons of Noah because they would not be able to explain certain things , They purposely leave out the fact that the family of Noah were in Aftica first .

Then landed in the Mountains of Ararat , Not one Mountain , But Mountains as the Bible states Genesis 8;4 . Then migrated back to Egipt again . With the exception of one son named Japheth . Who lived in the Tents of Shem Genesis 9;27 , Which is why you find Nimrod in Genesis 10;8 . As being a mighty hunter . A Ghibbore '' Mighty One ''. Building Towers Such As The Tower Of Babel .

When in itself is '' Bab '' Door '' And El '' The Doorway To El '' . To reach heaven . However . The God , Be He Yahweh Or Adonai of the Hebrew , Didn't Approve of this so he came down and confounded their tongue , In that part of The Planet Earth of Babylon , Not The Whole Earth .

So these people were all one big family who separated after the flood of the noah story . and if you look in Psalms 78;51 You can see that they place Egipt , which is Mizraim The Son Of Ham And Ham As Being The Same , Egiptians Psalms 78; 51 , Again , this quote makes Mizraim and Ham Both Egiptians along with Psalms 105; 23 . Also read Jeremaih 46;9 .

Mentions Libya , originally called Tehnu as Phut , Who is the son of Ham Genesis 10;6 along side of Ethiopia as Cush . Then the Egiptian term Kemite or Khemet predates the bible or hebraic name Ham as mentioned above thus the original Hamites , Cu****es , and Mizraimites had to have been according to their own Bible . In North East Africa's Libya Extending from what is called Egipt today , down past Sudan , called Ham Genesis 10;6 , And on into Ethiopia called Cush Genesis 2;13 in the bible .

Wait a minute ! what are we talking about?

are we talking about religions and the stories in holy books? or which religion is truth? or ......

almost all the stories in torah and old testament i know because all stories are also in the last holy book brought by last prophet Mohammad.

i am not christian i am a muslim beleiver and according to islam there no God but Allah (God) and Mohammad is the messenger of God like all other prophets Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Adam, Noah ......

Yes the Bible written by four men and started 60 70 years after Jesus desapeared

that is why christians have 4 different books

but Quran (holy book of islam) the completed book written by who knows how to write and read in the same time when the messages inspired to the prophet

there are many things in Bible and torah are same as in Quran because they belongs to same one true God but something were changed evetually in the Bible

then they started calling Jesus as God or son of a God when there is no proof of it Jesus did not do anything else then all other big prophets miracles

Once again

God wanted to create the universe and human and wanted human live his life as God's wishes so that he can go to heaven for endless life

God sent His messages to human beign in history but the message is completed with Holy Quran

there will no prophet or holy book or message come again

this messages is just advice to take , to beware of hell to go to heaven

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:28 pm

cloverleaf;911979 wrote: Wait a minute ! what are we talking about?

are we talking about religions and the stories in holy books? or which religion is truth? or ......

almost all the stories in torah and old testament i know because all stories are also in the last holy book brought by last prophet Mohammad.

i am not christian i am a muslim beleiver and according to islam there no God but Allah (God) and Mohammad is the messenger of God like all other prophets Jesus, Moses, Abraham, Adam, Noah ......

Yes the Bible written by four men and started 60 70 years after Jesus desapeared

that is why christians have 4 different books

but Quran (holy book of islam) the completed book written by who knows how to write and read in the same time when the messages inspired to the prophet

there are many things in Bible and torah are same as in Quran because they belongs to same one true God but something were changed evetually in the Bible

then they started calling Jesus as God or son of a God when there is no proof of it Jesus did not do anything else then all other big prophets miracles

Once again

God wanted to create the universe and human and wanted human live his life as God's wishes so that he can go to heaven for endless life

God sent His messages to human beign in history but the message is completed with Holy Quran

there will no prophet or holy book or message come again

this messages is just advice to take , to beware of hell to go to heaven

This Was Question The Above Post Asking Anyway

So Your Muslim Yes . So Tell Me This Where Did The Teaching Of Islam Come From ?? Now Think Before You Speak . By The Way Nice Side Steping .

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:40 pm

Daniyal;912117 wrote: This Was Question The Above Post Asking Anyway

So Your Muslim Yes . So Tell Me This Where Did The Teaching Of Islam Come From ?? Now Think Before You Speak . By The Way Nice Side Steping .

OK,

THERE IS NO GOD BUT GOD (ALLAH) AND MOHAMMAD IS THE MESSENGER OF GOD

According to Islam God sent Prophet Mohammad as last proplet and complete the message since first human Adam.

that complete message is called Quran.

Mohammad in age of 40 he's got first message from God by angel Gabriel and it took about 20 years to complete the message.

this is teaching of Islam; we follow Quran because its pure what God said to us

then we look what our prophet said and did in his life long, we take his life as perfect sample.

then we follow people who lived with our prophet, then we follow masters of Islam, when we need to know about islam we usually look what Quran says then w look what our prophet said or did about it then how masters explain things that our prophet did or said or God said about it we dont try to explain it from our mind. this is sunni belief.

Islam says that God wanted to create heaven and hell and fill them with human being and jins for endless life, so there are many people will go to hell and stay there forever some people will go to hell for some certain time of period then go to heaven and some other people will go directly to heaven and stay they forever

but the most important thing is people who will go to heaven direct or not only and only will be muslims all others will go to hell forever

how bad for them and scrary right?

its because God wanted us to beleive in one truth and live our life as God wanted

God may forgive many sins but will never forgive calling someone else as God or not accepting everything

this is what God said in Quran and God does not turn back from His promises

by the way i should tell you this, according to Islam people who live before our prophet and beleived in One God and followed the prophet in their time will go to heaven

but todays christians jews and all other religion followers will go to hell .

because christians call Jesus as God just because of he did not have father (Adam did not have father too) and they dont accept what same God said in Quran when they accept what God said in Bible etc...

Jews are same actually they have been waiting for a prophet for last 3000 years is not it weird? they think that they are special but they are not

God does not look at people's face or their color or their culture or race

God only looks at hearts and peoples behaviors.

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:58 pm

Clover:-6

I'm happy to see you back. However, you have still not answered the questions I've asked.

Does Islam condone the killing of innocent women, children and men? Does Islam condone suicide bombing?

If there is to be no compulsion in a religious faith why are those who convert from Islam to Christianity put to death?

Is the violence I see around the world a part of what it is to be a Muslim? Here I am not disregarding the violence of others.

Shalom

Ted:-6

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:23 pm

Ted;912480 wrote: Clover:-6

I'm happy to see you back. However, you have still not answered the questions I've asked.

Does Islam condone the killing of innocent women, children and men? Does Islam condone suicide bombing?

If there is to be no compulsion in a religious faith why are those who convert from Islam to Christianity put to death?

Is the violence I see around the world a part of what it is to be a Muslim? Here I am not disregarding the violence of others.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Hi Ted, I dont remeber that you asked me this question that is why i did not asnwer your question.

Islam is most peaceful religon on earth,

no Islam does not condone the killing innocent women, men, children or animals

Islam does not let us to kill any animal or bugs if its not needed or dropping tree down when there is no reason

we must have mercy for everything on this earth

we love creatures becuase of The Creator.

I have not heard about what Islam says about suicide bombing but trust me its all different issiue because people who became suicide bomber beleive that there is war inbetween enemies and them and they dont have many options to hurt them so they become suicide bomber

i dont think that they kill themselve for God wants this.

Islam is peaceful religon

But dont forget this if someone who is innocent according to you may not be innocent according to state or another person.

you should see the behind the scene of these violence around the world

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:29 pm

cloverleaf;912473 wrote: OK,

THERE IS NO GOD BUT GOD (ALLAH) AND MOHAMMAD IS THE MESSENGER OF GOD

According to Islam God sent Prophet Mohammad as last proplet and complete the message since first human Adam.

that complete message is called Quran.

Mohammad in age of 40 he's got first message from God by angel Gabriel and it took about 20 years to complete the message.

this is teaching of Islam; we follow Quran because its pure what God said to us

then we look what our prophet said and did in his life long, we take his life as perfect sample.

then we follow people who lived with our prophet, then we follow masters of Islam, when we need to know about islam we usually look what Quran says then w look what our prophet said or did about it then how masters explain things that our prophet did or said or God said about it we dont try to explain it from our mind. this is sunni belief.

Islam says that God wanted to create heaven and hell and fill them with human being and jins for endless life, so there are many people will go to hell and stay there forever some people will go to hell for some certain time of period then go to heaven and some other people will go directly to heaven and stay they forever

but the most important thing is people who will go to heaven direct or not only and only will be muslims all others will go to hell forever

how bad for them and scrary right?

its because God wanted us to beleive in one truth and live our life as God wanted

God may forgive many sins but will never forgive calling someone else as God or not accepting everything

this is what God said in Quran and God does not turn back from His promises

by the way i should tell you this, according to Islam people who live before our prophet and beleived in One God and followed the prophet in their time will go to heaven

but todays christians jews and all other religion followers will go to hell .

because christians call Jesus as God just because of he did not have father (Adam did not have father too) and they dont accept what same God said in Quran when they accept what God said in Bible etc...

Jews are same actually they have been waiting for a prophet for last 3000 years is not it weird? they think that they are special but they are not

God does not look at people's face or their color or their culture or race

God only looks at hearts and peoples behaviors.

Any reader of The Qur'aan that is familiar with the old testament , Or the new testament , Discovers that the names and events of the books and prophets have been definitely copied in The Qur'aan . I will now prove that the muslims teaching / language was copied from The Old Testament The Five Books Of Moses , / other cultures that predated them .

Yet . They will argue with anyone and try to convince people that Islam and its scriptures , The Quraan is Authentic . When in fact , I can give you serveral Words and Customs That was taken from from The Old Testament The Five Books Of Moses , / other cultures that predated them . For example , the ceremony of The Circumcision ( Genesis 17;10 ) .

The concept of a holy day called Sabbath ( Genesis 2 ; 2 -3 ) , And called Jum'ah ( Qur'aan , Chapter 62 ) by the muslims . The concept of a Turbaan or Prayer Cap , Which the muslims call a Kuffa , Came from The Jewish Yamala or Yarmulke . The concept of the muslim Kalimat Tawhiyd ( Qur'aan 47;19 ) . Was taken from the jews Shama Yishrael '' Hear Oh Israel '' ( Dueteronmoy 6 ; 4 and 4 ; 35 ) .

Where they took their Kalimat , Laa Ilaaha Illa Allah ( Qur'aan 47 ; 19 ) . And this was carried over to Christianity ( Mark 12 ; 29 ) . And that's where muslims borrowed it from . The took the concept of Fasting from the jews ( Nehemiah 9 ; 1 ) , The concept of Alms Giving ( Qur'aan 4 ; 162 ) , Their concept of making Hajj ( Ezra 3 ; 4 , 6 ; 22 ) .

What most muslims don't even know is that their whole concept of The Pilgrimage to their holy temple , A Cube shaped building ( Ka'aba ) in Mecca , Which they call The Hajj , And the person who completes The Pilgrimage is called A Hajji , Is a word duplicated from the name of Prophet Haggai and the festive Khag or Hag ( Exodus 12 ; 14 ) ,

This is when the children of Israel in The Book Of Ezra made a pilgrimage out of babylonian captivity , To return to the holy land back to the Temple of Solomon , The Holy of Holies , The most sacred building on earth to them . It's the exact same story , Even the same titles ; The took the concept of wearing The Ihraam from the jews ,

Who took it from The Ancient Egyptian practice of Priest of Amun-Ra , The concept of the story of Nimrod ( Qur'aan 2 ; 258 ) Was copied from The Jewish Narrative of The Mishnah from the Midrash Rabba Chapter 17 , The concept of wearing The Face Veil , Khimaar ( Genesis 24 ; 65 ) And wearing sweet smelling Oils Qituwrah meaning '' Sweet Fragrance

'' From Qehtoret And burning incense ( Exodus 30 ; 7 , 23 , 34 ) ; And they also took words like Sawkar meaning '' Strong Drink '' From the hebrews , And changed it to Sakhtaan meaning Drink '' The House 'Bayt of lord ( Qur'aan 106 ; 3 ) , Taken from hebrew Beth , The word Rabb, Meaning '' Master or Sustainer '' From Rabb , The word Jannah , From the aramic / hebrew Gan ,

The word Sama'a or Samaawaati , From aramic / hebrew '' Shamayim '' Meaning The Skies , '' The word Ard . Taken from the Aramic / Hebrew Ehrets , Meaning The Earth , Land , '' Baad , From The aramic / hebrew Bawb , Meaning '' Door , Aba , From the aramic / hebrew word Ab , Meaning Father, '' Malak , From the aramic / hebrew Melek , Meaning '' King or Ruler ,

'' Yad From the aramic / hebrew word Yawd , Meaning '' Hand '' , Amiyn , Amen , '' Mu'minun , Mu'minaati , El Mu'min Etc , One of Allahs attributes ( 6th ) was taken from the aramic / hebrew Awmane , Meaning '' To Have Faith , '' El Bariyu , The 12th Attribute , Meaning '' The Fashioner '' From the aramic / hebrew

'' Bara , Meaning '' To Replenish '' Al Musawwiru , The Fashioner , From the aramic / hebrew Tsawr Meaning '' To Make '' All of the Attributes of arabic was stolen from hebrew , Including Salaam , Islaam , Muslim All came from the Aramic / Hebrew word Shalom meaning '' Peace ,

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:31 pm

Clover:-6

Thanks for the response.

If Islam is so peaceful, and I believe true Islam is, why did suicide bombers kill so many on 9/11? Surely they were not all guilty of something against the state. Some of them were peaceful Muslims. How many children died? Were they guilty?

Again I ask, Why do Muslims seek to kill Muslim converts to other faiths? There is to be no compulsion in religion so the Qur'an says.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:03 pm

As of Saturday I will be away for two weeks. I'm attending courses at the Vancouver School of Theology. I may be on before than but am not sure.

Shalom

Ted:-6

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:07 pm

Daniyal;912491 wrote: Any reader of The Qur'aan that is familiar with the old testament , Or the new testament , Discovers that the names and events of the books and prophets have been definitely copied in The Qur'aan . I will now prove that the muslims teaching / language was copied from The Old Testament The Five Books Of Moses , / other cultures that predated them .

Yet . They will argue with anyone and try to convince people that Islam and its scriptures , The Quraan is Authentic . When in fact , I can give you serveral Words and Customs That was taken from from The Old Testament The Five Books Of Moses , / other cultures that predated them . For example , the ceremony of The Circumcision ( Genesis 17;10 ) .

The concept of a holy day called Sabbath ( Genesis 2 ; 2 -3 ) , And called Jum'ah ( Qur'aan , Chapter 62 ) by the muslims . The concept of a Turbaan or Prayer Cap , Which the muslims call a Kuffa , Came from The Jewish Yamala or Yarmulke . The concept of the muslim Kalimat Tawhiyd ( Qur'aan 47;19 ) . Was taken from the jews Shama Yishrael '' Hear Oh Israel '' ( Dueteronmoy 6 ; 4 and 4 ; 35 ) .

Where they took their Kalimat , Laa Ilaaha Illa Allah ( Qur'aan 47 ; 19 ) . And this was carried over to Christianity ( Mark 12 ; 29 ) . And that's where muslims borrowed it from . The took the concept of Fasting from the jews ( Nehemiah 9 ; 1 ) , The concept of Alms Giving ( Qur'aan 4 ; 162 ) , Their concept of making Hajj ( Ezra 3 ; 4 , 6 ; 22 ) .

What most muslims don't even know is that their whole concept of The Pilgrimage to their holy temple , A Cube shaped building ( Ka'aba ) in Mecca , Which they call The Hajj , And the person who completes The Pilgrimage is called A Hajji , Is a word duplicated from the name of Prophet Haggai and the festive Khag or Hag ( Exodus 12 ; 14 ) ,

This is when the children of Israel in The Book Of Ezra made a pilgrimage out of babylonian captivity , To return to the holy land back to the Temple of Solomon , The Holy of Holies , The most sacred building on earth to them . It's the exact same story , Even the same titles ; The took the concept of wearing The Ihraam from the jews ,

Who took it from The Ancient Egyptian practice of Priest of Amun-Ra , The concept of the story of Nimrod ( Qur'aan 2 ; 258 ) Was copied from The Jewish Narrative of The Mishnah from the Midrash Rabba Chapter 17 , The concept of wearing The Face Veil , Khimaar ( Genesis 24 ; 65 ) And wearing sweet smelling Oils Qituwrah meaning '' Sweet Fragrance

'' From Qehtoret And burning incense ( Exodus 30 ; 7 , 23 , 34 ) ; And they also took words like Sawkar meaning '' Strong Drink '' From the hebrews , And changed it to Sakhtaan meaning Drink '' The House 'Bayt of lord ( Qur'aan 106 ; 3 ) , Taken from hebrew Beth , The word Rabb, Meaning '' Master or Sustainer '' From Rabb , The word Jannah , From the aramic / hebrew Gan ,

The word Sama'a or Samaawaati , From aramic / hebrew '' Shamayim '' Meaning The Skies , '' The word Ard . Taken from the Aramic / Hebrew Ehrets , Meaning The Earth , Land , '' Baad , From The aramic / hebrew Bawb , Meaning '' Door , Aba , From the aramic / hebrew word Ab , Meaning Father, '' Malak , From the aramic / hebrew Melek , Meaning '' King or Ruler ,

'' Yad From the aramic / hebrew word Yawd , Meaning '' Hand '' , Amiyn , Amen , '' Mu'minun , Mu'minaati , El Mu'min Etc , One of Allahs attributes ( 6th ) was taken from the aramic / hebrew Awmane , Meaning '' To Have Faith , '' El Bariyu , The 12th Attribute , Meaning '' The Fashioner '' From the aramic / hebrew

'' Bara , Meaning '' To Replenish '' Al Musawwiru , The Fashioner , From the aramic / hebrew Tsawr Meaning '' To Make '' All of the Attributes of arabic was stolen from hebrew , Including Salaam , Islaam , Muslim All came from the Aramic / Hebrew word Shalom meaning '' Peace ,

Yes there are many similarities in between these three religions we muslims have no problem with them as long as all the things are truly known as one God's words or His prophets advices.

we accept all books came from one God and His all prophets, angels, fate, doom day and the all bad and good things comes from God (Allah) this is the main key of true faith and anything that does not match with these worlds or their meanings is not true faith and cant go to heaven

Have you heard about event of mirage?

once angel Gabriel comes to prophet Mohamad weaks him up and takes him to jerusalem he prays with all the prophets since began then he only himself with goes to see real heaven and hell and tells people about them and since then he said that if you would know what i know you would laugh less cry more.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:42 am

cloverleaf;915044 wrote: Yes there are many similarities in between these three religions we muslims have no problem with them as long as all the things are truly known as one God's words or His prophets advices.

we accept all books came from one God and His all prophets, angels, fate, doom day and the all bad and good things comes from God (Allah) this is the main key of true faith and anything that does not match with these worlds or their meanings is not true faith and cant go to heaven

Have you heard about event of mirage?

once angel Gabriel comes to prophet Mohamad weaks him up and takes him to jerusalem he prays with all the prophets since began then he only himself with goes to see real heaven and hell and tells people about them and since then he said that if you would know what i know you would laugh less cry more.

Question If I May .

Is Isa Son Of Maryam The God Of The Qur'aan ?

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 11:01 pm

Daniyal;915116 wrote: Question If I May .

Is Isa Son Of Maryam The God Of The Qur'aan ?

Isa, you mean Jesus is just a man not a God or son of a God He is a one of the 4 greatest prophets

according to Quran ; One day Angel Gabriel came to Mary who never been with a man and told her that she will have a son, she said that how that is possible any man did not touch me , Gabriel said this is what God's wish and it will happen.

A Man can not be a God being God is to be able to create anything when there is nothing, also God did not have child,

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 5:47 am

cloverleaf;915793 wrote: Isa, you mean Jesus is just a man not a God or son of a God He is a one of the 4 greatest prophets

according to Quran ; One day Angel Gabriel came to Mary who never been with a man and told her that she will have a son, she said that how that is possible any man did not touch me , Gabriel said this is what God's wish and it will happen.

A Man can not be a God being God is to be able to create anything when there is nothing, also God did not have child,

( Qur'anic Quotes On The Messiah Hesus ) The Messiah Jesus Is Glorified In The Qur'an More Than Any Other Prophet. He Is Mentioned In 15 Chapters. One Of The More Common Titles For The Messiah Jesus Is '' Son Of Mary ''. He Is Mentioned 15 Times As Isa Ibn Maryam ( Jesus , Son Of Mary ) ; 2 ; 87 , 2 ; 253 , 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 157 , 4 ; 171 , 5 ; 49 , 5 ; 81 , 5 ; 113 , 5 ; 115 , 5 ; 117 , 5 ; 119 , 19 ; 34 , 33 ; 7 , 57 ; 27 , 61 ; 6 ,

Fourteen times as the Son of Mary , Ibn Maryam ) alone or with some other title; 5 ; 19 ( twice ), 49 ; 78 , 113 , 115 , 117 , 119 , 9 ; 31 , 19 ; 34 , 23 ; 50 , 43 ; 57 , 57 ; 27 , 61 ; 6 .

Once as the sign of the hour -- Alamus Saa'ati ) ; 43 ; 61

Eleven times as Rasuwl , 2 ; 87 , 3 ; 49 , 4 ; 157 , 5 ; 78 , 57 ; 27 , 2 ; 253 , 3 ; 52 - 53 , 4 ; 171 , 5 ; 114 , 61 ; 6 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned on the Qur'an nine times named in conjuction with other Prophets ; 2; 136 , 3 ; 84 , 4 ; 163 , 5 ; 81 , 33 ; 7 , 42 ; 13 , 57 ; 26 - 27 , 6 ; 85 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as Isa in the Qur'an 10 times; 2 ; 136 , 3 ; 51 , 3 ; 54 , 3 ; 59 , 3 ; 84 , 4 ; 163 , 6 ; 85 , 42 ; 13 , 19 ; 34 , 43 ; 63 ,

The Messiah Jesus occurs in connection with Ar Ruhu -- as often as five times in the Qur'an. 2 ; 87 , 2 ; 253 , 5 ; 110 , 4 ; 171 , 21 ; 91 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as a witness Shahidan - in the Qur'an twice -- 4 ; 159 , 5 ; 120 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as blessed Mubaarakan --- in the Qur'an once ; 19 ; 31 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as illustrious Wajihan --- in the Qur'an once 3 ; 45

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as - Ayat - -- in the Qur'an four times; 3 ; 48 , 19 ; 21 , 21 ; 91 , 23 ; 50 ..

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as - mercy - Rahmah -- in the Qur'an once ; 19 ; 21 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as - a statement of the truth - Qawlal -- Haqqi ) ; 19 ; 34 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as of those near ( to Allah ) , Min Al Muqarrabiyna ) once in the Qur'an; 3 ; 45 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as of the righteous - Min As Salihiyna ) once in the Qur'an; 3 ; 45 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as an example -- Mathal ) in the Qur'an twice ; 43 ; 57 , 43 ; 59 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as a simulator -- Mathalan -- in the Qur'an once 3 ; 59 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as Al Masih -- the Messiah ) 11 times in the once ; 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 157 , 4 ; 171 , 4 ; 172 , 5 ; 19 ( twice ) 5 ; 75 ( twice ) 5 ; 78 , 9 ; 30 , 9 ; 31 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as slave -- Abd --- three times in the Qur'an . 4 ; 172 , 19 ; 30 , 43 ; 59 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned once as a prophet -- Nabian ); 19 ; 30

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as a word --- Kalima -- in the Qur'an twice ; 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 171 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as be and he became --- Kuwn Fayakuwn ) in the Qur'an once 3 ; 59

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as her son --- Ibnaha in the Qur'an once . 21 ; 91 . The Prophet Muhammad Is Mentioned Four Times 48 ; 29 ; 3 ; 144 ; 33 ; 40 ; 47 ; 2

Jesus Has Many Titles In The Koran . Now Stating That Muhammad Is '' The Rasuwl Allah '' , And You So-called Muslims Base Your Belief Around His Teaching , Wouldn't It Be Out Of Mere Respect That You Bse Your Book On Jesus Christ Throughout Your Text ? Moses Is Spoken Of In The Koran ; Gabriel ( Koran 2 ; 97 - 98 ) , David ( Koran 6 ; 84 , 21 ; 78 - 80 ) , Jacob ( Koran 2 ; 132 - 133 ) , And Many Other Prophets ; But Why Would You Dedicate The Whole 19th Chapter To Jesus ' Mother ( The Chapter Of Mary ) , And A Whole Chapter To The Birth Of Jesus ( The 4th Chapter Of The Women ) ? And I Can Go On . While On The Other Hand , Basically , Only One Chapter Is Dedicated To Muhammad ( Chapter 47 Of Muhammad ) . NoWhere In The Koran Is Muhammad Called A Savior Or Messiah. In Fact, Muslims Compare Moses And Muhammad And Not Muhammad And Jesus Which Makes Jesus On A Higher Level.

What I Mean By This Is , If You Make A Comparison Of How The Koran Talks About Moses And Muhammad You Will See How Jesus Is Praised More Than Muhammad Himself. The Following Chart Will Compare The Likeness Of These Men And Show You How Jesus Is Exalted Above Moses And Muhammad . According To Them ;

Muhammad --- Was only A Man / Born Of An Earthly Father And Mother / He Married / He Did Not Die For Everyone's Sins / Has A Spirit Like A Norman Person / He Got His Calling At The Age Of 40 / He Had Children / Was A Prophet / Received Book Himself Koran / Died A Natural Death / Body Was Put In The Ground ....

Moses --- Was only A Man / Born Of An Earthly Father And Mother / He Married / He Did Not Die For Everyone's Sins / Has A Spirit Like A Norman Person / He Got His Calling At The Age Of 40 /He Had Children / Was A Prophet / Received Book Himself , Torah / Died A Natural Death / Body Was Put In The Ground ....

Jesus ---- Is A God / No Earthly Father Mentioned / Did Not Marry / Died For Everyone's Sins / His Spirit Came Down Directly From God / Started His Mission At Birth / He Had No Children / Was A Messiah / Did Not Receive Book Himself / Did Not Die A Natural Death / Was Taken Up By Allah .

When You Put All Of These Comparisons Together , They Make Jesus Something Divine; And For Further Proof, In Your Own Koran 2 ; 253 , It Clearly States That Jesus Is Exalted Over Other Prophets.

Koran 2 ; 253 ( In Arabic ) TILKA ( THAT'S ) AL RUSUL ( THE ONES SENT FADDALNAA ( WE WERE MORE PLEASED ) BADAHUM ( WITH SOME OF THEM ) ALA ( WITH ) NADIN ( OTHERS ) MINHUM ( FROM AMONGST ) MAN ( TO WHOM ) KALLAMA ( SPOKE ) AL - LAH ) ( THE SOURCE ) WA ( AND ) RAFA-A ( HE RAISED ) BADAHUM ( SOME OF THEM ) DARAJAAT ( IN RANKS ) WA ( AND ) AATAYNAA ( WE GAVE ) EESAA ( JESUS ) INBA ( DON OF ( MARYAM ( MARYAM ) AL BAYYINAAT ) THE CLEAR EVIDENCES ) WA ( AND ) AYYADNAAHU ) AND WE SUPPORTED , AIDED HIM ) BE ROOH ( BY WAY OF THE SOUL ) AL QUDUS ( THE HOLY ) WA ( AND ) LOW ( IF ) SHAA ( PLEASES ) AL - LAH ( THE SOURCE ) MAA ( WOULD NEVER ) AQTATALA ( FOUGHT TO KILL ) AL - LAZEENA ( THOSE WHO ) MIN ( FROM AMONGST ) BADIHIM ) SOME OF THEM ) MIN ( FROM ) NADIMAA ) AFTERWARDS ) JAA-ATHUM ( HAS COME TO THEM ) AL BAYYINAAT ( THE CLEAR EVIDENCES ) WA ( AND ) LAAKIN ( BUT ) AKHTALAFOO ( DIFFERED ) FAMINHUM ( SO THERE FROM AMONGST ) MAN ( ARE THOSE ) AMANA ( ARE FAITHFUL ) WA ( AND ) MINHUM ( FROM AMONGST ) MAN ( THOSE WHO ) KAFARA ( WHO CONCEAL WHAT THEY KNOW TO BE TRUE ) WA ( AND ) LOW ( IF ) SHAA ( PLEASES ) AL -LAH ( THE SOURCE ) MAA ( WOULD NEVER ) AQTATALOO ( FOUGHT TO KILL ) WA ( AND ) LAAKIN ( BUT ) AL - LAH ( THE SOURCE ) YAF - AL ( HE DOES ) MAA ( WHAT ) YUREED ( HE WANTS TO DO ) That's How It Is With The Ones Sent ; We The Elohim Were More Pleased With Some Than Others . There Were Some To Whom Allah Spoke , And He Raised Some Of Them In Ranks, And We The Elohim Gave Jesus , Son Of Mary , The Criteria Of Clear Evidence And Supported Him By Way Of The Holy Soul , Gabriel , One Who Come From El , Nusku .... And If It Pleased The Source , Those After Them Would Never Have Fought To Kill Amongst Themselves After The Clear Evidences Had Come To Them , But They Had Differences. And Of Them There Were Some Who Had Faith In It; While Others O Them Are Those Who Conceal What They Know To Be The Truth. And If It Pleased The Source They Would Have Never Fought To Kill Amongst Themselves , But It Is Up To Allah Because He Does What He Wants To Do .

And With These Comparisins The Proof That Moses And Muhammad Were The Same Kind Of Prophet According To Them And That Jesus Was Not Like Them Raised Jesus In Ranks Above Them As It Says In Koran 2 ; 253 . Because All Of The Similarities Between Moses And Muhammad Were Natural Orders By The Laws Of God Namely , Marriage , Natural Birth By Mother And Father And Natural Deaths. If These Are Laws Of God And Jesus Didn't Do Them , Then Jesus Was Above The LAaw Of God Or Was A God. So To Avoid This Reality Muslims Will Say That The Whole Bible Was Tampered With . So You Tell Me, Mr. Muhammadan , Shi-ite , Ahmadiyite, Wahbai , Or Any Other Sect Of Moslems Which You Name Yourselves, According To Your Belief, Is Jesus The God Of The Koran? The Reason Why I Ask This Question Is Because Out Of All The Thousands Of Religion All Over The Planet Earth , Muslims Seem Set On Trying To Defeat The Power Of Christianity And Its Ability To Convert People World Wide.

The Koran Seems To Center Around Conflicts With Pagan Tribes Of Arabia , But Really Never Addresses Their Religious Beliefs, Or The Characters Of Their Religion. However , Whole Chapters Are Devoted To Christianity , Almost Every Personality In Christianity Is Found In The Koran . Muslims Emulate The Ethiopian Falasha And Coptic Christians In Their Dress. They Take Their Prayer Beads From The Rosaies Of The Catholic Church. They Take Their Prostation In Peayer From The Falasha Tribes; Their Fasting From Christianity . Their Not Eating Pork From Judaism; Their Concept Of Pilgrimage To A Holy Shrine From Christianity And Judaism. Jesus Is The Main Charactr Of The Koran. In Fact , Most Of The Muslims Scholars, Such As Ahmed Deedat , Dr. Jamal Badawi , Dr. Irving , Dr. Gary Miller, To Mention A Few , Constantly Quote From The Christian Bible ( The Book Of St. John Chapter 16 ; 7 And Refer To Their Prophet Mustafa Muhammad Al Amin Born In The Year 570 A.D. Died In The Year 632 A.D. In Arabia ,

As This Comforter . Yet , They Claim That The Bible Is Tampered With. It Is About Time That The Muslim World Acknowledges That Allah Of The Koran Is The Father Of Jesus ; Just As In Christianoity Not By Conception , But By Spirit . And That They Are Nothing More Than A Modern Day Sect Of Christians And Should Prepare Themselves For The Coming Of The Messiah .

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 7:45 pm

Daniyal;915948 wrote: ( Qur'anic Quotes On The Messiah Hesus ) The Messiah Jesus Is Glorified In The Qur'an More Than Any Other Prophet. He Is Mentioned In 15 Chapters. One Of The More Common Titles For The Messiah Jesus Is '' Son Of Mary ''. He Is Mentioned 15 Times As Isa Ibn Maryam ( Jesus , Son Of Mary ) ; 2 ; 87 , 2 ; 253 , 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 157 , 4 ; 171 , 5 ; 49 , 5 ; 81 , 5 ; 113 , 5 ; 115 , 5 ; 117 , 5 ; 119 , 19 ; 34 , 33 ; 7 , 57 ; 27 , 61 ; 6 ,

Fourteen times as the Son of Mary , Ibn Maryam ) alone or with some other title; 5 ; 19 ( twice ), 49 ; 78 , 113 , 115 , 117 , 119 , 9 ; 31 , 19 ; 34 , 23 ; 50 , 43 ; 57 , 57 ; 27 , 61 ; 6 .

Once as the sign of the hour -- Alamus Saa'ati ) ; 43 ; 61

Eleven times as Rasuwl , 2 ; 87 , 3 ; 49 , 4 ; 157 , 5 ; 78 , 57 ; 27 , 2 ; 253 , 3 ; 52 - 53 , 4 ; 171 , 5 ; 114 , 61 ; 6 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned on the Qur'an nine times named in conjuction with other Prophets ; 2; 136 , 3 ; 84 , 4 ; 163 , 5 ; 81 , 33 ; 7 , 42 ; 13 , 57 ; 26 - 27 , 6 ; 85 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as Isa in the Qur'an 10 times; 2 ; 136 , 3 ; 51 , 3 ; 54 , 3 ; 59 , 3 ; 84 , 4 ; 163 , 6 ; 85 , 42 ; 13 , 19 ; 34 , 43 ; 63 ,

The Messiah Jesus occurs in connection with Ar Ruhu -- as often as five times in the Qur'an. 2 ; 87 , 2 ; 253 , 5 ; 110 , 4 ; 171 , 21 ; 91 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as a witness Shahidan - in the Qur'an twice -- 4 ; 159 , 5 ; 120 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as blessed Mubaarakan --- in the Qur'an once ; 19 ; 31 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as illustrious Wajihan --- in the Qur'an once 3 ; 45

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as - Ayat - -- in the Qur'an four times; 3 ; 48 , 19 ; 21 , 21 ; 91 , 23 ; 50 ..

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as - mercy - Rahmah -- in the Qur'an once ; 19 ; 21 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as - a statement of the truth - Qawlal -- Haqqi ) ; 19 ; 34 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as of those near ( to Allah ) , Min Al Muqarrabiyna ) once in the Qur'an; 3 ; 45 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as of the righteous - Min As Salihiyna ) once in the Qur'an; 3 ; 45 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as an example -- Mathal ) in the Qur'an twice ; 43 ; 57 , 43 ; 59 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as a simulator -- Mathalan -- in the Qur'an once 3 ; 59 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as Al Masih -- the Messiah ) 11 times in the once ; 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 157 , 4 ; 171 , 4 ; 172 , 5 ; 19 ( twice ) 5 ; 75 ( twice ) 5 ; 78 , 9 ; 30 , 9 ; 31 .

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as slave -- Abd --- three times in the Qur'an . 4 ; 172 , 19 ; 30 , 43 ; 59 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned once as a prophet -- Nabian ); 19 ; 30

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as a word --- Kalima -- in the Qur'an twice ; 3 ; 45 , 4 ; 171 ,

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as be and he became --- Kuwn Fayakuwn ) in the Qur'an once 3 ; 59

The Messiah Jesus is mentioned as her son --- Ibnaha in the Qur'an once . 21 ; 91 . The Prophet Muhammad Is Mentioned Four Times 48 ; 29 ; 3 ; 144 ; 33 ; 40 ; 47 ; 2

Jesus Has Many Titles In The Koran . Now Stating That Muhammad Is '' The Rasuwl Allah '' , And You So-called Muslims Base Your Belief Around His Teaching , Wouldn't It Be Out Of Mere Respect That You Bse Your Book On Jesus Christ Throughout Your Text ? Moses Is Spoken Of In The Koran ; Gabriel ( Koran 2 ; 97 - 98 ) , David ( Koran 6 ; 84 , 21 ; 78 - 80 ) , Jacob ( Koran 2 ; 132 - 133 ) , And Many Other Prophets ; But Why Would You Dedicate The Whole 19th Chapter To Jesus ' Mother ( The Chapter Of Mary ) , And A Whole Chapter To The Birth Of Jesus ( The 4th Chapter Of The Women )

I just wanted to tell you that Quran tells about Jesus and his Mother Mary too that is God's words too but christians does not want to see it ? And I Can Go On . While On The Other Hand , Basically , Only One Chapter Is Dedicated To Muhammad ( Chapter 47 Of Muhammad ) . NoWhere In The Koran Is Muhammad Called A Savior Or Messiah. In Fact, Muslims Compare Moses And Muhammad And Not Muhammad And Jesus Which Makes Jesus On A Higher Level. Ohhh I think you did not read Quran or did not understand it well, if you want to compare which prophet is greater or greatest (which is not needed) one word must be enough for you that is from Quran "God tells Mohammad that if I did not decide to create you in the beginning I would not create anything" i can find much more praises about Mohammad

What I Mean By This Is , If You Make A Comparison Of How The Koran Talks About Moses And Muhammad You Will See How Jesus Is Praised More Than Muhammad Himself. The Following Chart Will Compare The Likeness Of These Men And Show You How Jesus Is Exalted Above Moses And Muhammad . According To Them ;

I can guaranteed you that you missed many informations, As long as you beleive in Quran is You must beleive in Mohammad and other prohets as prophet

Muhammad --- Was only A Man / Born Of An Earthly Father And Mother / He Married / He Did Not Die For Everyone's Sins / Has A Spirit Like A Norman Person / He Got His Calling At The Age Of 40 / He Had Children / Was A Prophet / Received Book Himself Koran / Died A Natural Death / Body Was Put In The Ground ....

In Quran Jesus did not die yet He is taken to God' place for while He will come back and after living for a while He will die too,

Moses --- Was only A Man / Born Of An Earthly Father And Mother / He Married / He Did Not Die For Everyone's Sins / Has A Spirit Like A Norman Person / He Got His Calling At The Age Of 40 /He Had Children / Was A Prophet / Received Book Himself , Torah / Died A Natural Death / Body Was Put In The Ground ....

Jesus ---- Is A God / No Earthly Father Mentioned / Did Not Marry / Died For Everyone's Sins / I really cant beleive in you, you seem lost in space, His Spirit Came Down Directly From God / Started His Mission At Birth / He Had No Children / Was A Messiah / Did Not Receive Book Himself / Did Not Die A Natural Death / Was Taken Up By Allah .

When You Put All Of These Comparisons Together , They Make Jesus Something Divine; And For Further Proof, In Your Own Koran 2 ; 253 , It Clearly States That Jesus Is Exalted Over Other Prophets. Quran does not say that Jesus is over other prophets especially over Mohammad this is not true

Koran 2 ; 253 ( In Arabic ) TILKA ( THAT'S ) AL RUSUL ( THE ONES SENT FADDALNAA ( WE WERE MORE PLEASED ) BADAHUM ( WITH SOME OF THEM ) ALA ( WITH ) NADIN ( OTHERS ) MINHUM ( FROM AMONGST ) MAN ( TO WHOM ) KALLAMA ( SPOKE ) AL - LAH ) ( THE SOURCE ) WA ( AND ) RAFA-A ( HE RAISED ) BADAHUM ( SOME OF THEM ) DARAJAAT ( IN RANKS ) WA ( AND ) AATAYNAA ( WE GAVE ) EESAA ( JESUS ) INBA ( DON OF ( MARYAM ( MARYAM ) AL BAYYINAAT ) THE CLEAR EVIDENCES ) WA ( AND ) AYYADNAAHU ) AND WE SUPPORTED , AIDED HIM ) BE ROOH ( BY WAY OF THE SOUL ) AL QUDUS ( THE HOLY ) WA ( AND ) LOW ( IF ) SHAA ( PLEASES ) AL - LAH ( THE SOURCE ) MAA ( WOULD NEVER ) AQTATALA ( FOUGHT TO KILL ) AL - LAZEENA ( THOSE WHO ) MIN ( FROM AMONGST ) BADIHIM ) SOME OF THEM ) MIN ( FROM ) NADIMAA ) AFTERWARDS ) JAA-ATHUM ( HAS COME TO THEM ) AL BAYYINAAT ( THE CLEAR EVIDENCES ) WA ( AND ) LAAKIN ( BUT ) AKHTALAFOO ( DIFFERED ) FAMINHUM ( SO THERE FROM AMONGST ) MAN ( ARE THOSE ) AMANA ( ARE FAITHFUL ) WA ( AND ) MINHUM ( FROM AMONGST ) MAN ( THOSE WHO ) KAFARA ( WHO CONCEAL WHAT THEY KNOW TO BE TRUE ) WA ( AND ) LOW ( IF ) SHAA ( PLEASES ) AL -LAH ( THE SOURCE ) MAA ( WOULD NEVER ) AQTATALOO ( FOUGHT TO KILL ) WA ( AND ) LAAKIN ( BUT ) AL - LAH ( THE SOURCE ) YAF - AL ( HE DOES ) MAA ( WHAT ) YUREED ( HE WANTS TO DO ) That's How It Is With The Ones Sent ; We The Elohim Were More Pleased With Some Than Others . There Were Some To Whom Allah Spoke , And He Raised Some Of Them In Ranks, And We The Elohim Gave Jesus , Son Of Mary , The Criteria Of Clear Evidence And Supported Him By Way Of The Holy Soul , Gabriel , One Who Come From El , Nusku .... And If It Pleased The Source , Those After Them Would Never Have Fought To Kill Amongst Themselves After The Clear Evidences Had Come To Them , But They Had Differences. And Of Them There Were Some Who Had Faith In It; While Others O Them Are Those Who Conceal What They Know To Be The Truth. And If It Pleased The Source They Would Have Never Fought To Kill Amongst Themselves , But It Is Up To Allah Because He Does What He Wants To Do .

And With These Comparisins The Proof That Moses And Muhammad Were The Same Kind Of Prophet According To Them And That Jesus Was Not Like Them Raised Jesus In Ranks Above Them As It Says In Koran 2 ; 253 . Because All Of The Similarities Between Moses And Muhammad Were Natural Orders By The Laws Of God Namely , Marriage , Natural Birth By Mother And Father And Natural Deaths. If These Are Laws Of God And Jesus Didn't Do Them , Then Jesus Was Above The LAaw Of God Or Was A God. So To Avoid This Reality Muslims Will Say That The Whole Bible Was Tampered With . So You Tell Me, Mr. Muhammadan , Shi-ite , Ahmadiyite, Wahbai , Or Any Other Sect Of Moslems Which You Name Yourselves, According To Your Belief, Is Jesus The God Of The Koran? The Reason Why I Ask This Question Is Because Out Of All The Thousands Of Religion All Over The Planet Earth , Muslims Seem Set On Trying To Defeat The Power Of Christianity And Its Ability To Convert People World Wide. You re closing your eyes and keep telling Jesus is lord is that is true Quran is not God's Book or Mohammad is not prophet because if Jesus died for everyones sin why God would send another prophet and book also Quran does not mantion that Jesus is Lord or He died for everyones sins etc.

The Koran Seems To Center Around Conflicts With Pagan Tribes Of Arabia , But Really Never Addresses Their Religious Beliefs, Or The Characters Of Their Religion. However , Whole Chapters Are Devoted To Christianity , Almost Every Personality In Christianity Is Found In The Koran . Muslims Emulate The Ethiopian Falasha And Coptic Christians In Their Dress. They Take Their Prayer Beads From The Rosaies Of The Catholic Church. They Take Their Prostation In Peayer From The Falasha Tribes; Their Fasting From Christianity . Their Not Eating Pork From Judaism; Their Concept Of Pilgrimage To A Holy Shrine From Christianity And Judaism. Jesus Is The Main Charactr Of The Koran. In Fact , Most Of The Muslims Scholars, Such As Ahmed Deedat , Dr. Jamal Badawi , Dr. Irving , Dr. Gary Miller, To Mention A Few , Constantly Quote From The Christian Bible ( The Book Of St. John Chapter 16 ; 7 And Refer To Their Prophet Mustafa Muhammad Al Amin Born In The Year 570 A.D. Died In The Year 632 A.D. In Arabia ,

As This Comforter . Yet , They Claim That The Bible Is Tampered With. It Is About Time That The Muslim World Acknowledges That Allah Of The Koran Is The Father Of Jesus ; Just As In Christianoity Not By Conception , But By Spirit . And That They Are Nothing More Than A Modern Day Sect Of Christians And Should Prepare Themselves For The Coming Of The Messiah . I am sorry for you to think this way You christians say that Jesus is lord and he died for everyones sins , you dont go to chruch even if you go you dont have any prayer once in a week at most you go to chruch and do what ? nothing, when you are in trouble you pray God to help you when you re not in trouble you never ever remember HIM ......if you think that Jesus died for your sins also and you 100 percent sure that you will go to heaven why dont you kill yourself? or if you think Quran is not God's book find someone or you write something like that

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:44 am

cloverleaf;917488 wrote: I am sorry for you to think this way You christians say that Jesus is lord and he died for everyones sins , you dont go to chruch even if you go you dont have any prayer once in a week at most you go to chruch and do what ? nothing, when you are in trouble you pray God to help you when you re not in trouble you never ever remember HIM ......if you think that Jesus died for your sins also and you 100 percent sure that you will go to heaven why dont you kill yourself? or if you think Quran is not God's book find someone or you write something like that

First I'm Not Christian Overstand , The Helping Hand Everyone Looking For Is At The End Of One Own Arm . Not Some Made Book Ok . Now Back To The Above Post , According To Your Own Qur'aan Isa Son Of Mary Is The God Of The Qur'aan .

To Answer Your Other Question; Read Below Veryyyyyyyyyy Slowlyyyyyyyy

( The Muslims Challenge Has / Was Met )

In the famous Orthodox Sunni Muslim dictionary entitled '' Dictionary Of Islam '' Arabic is described as '' By Reason Of It's Incomparable Excellence Is Called Al Lughah . Of The Language . '' Very little has been written about the origing of the so-called Arabic language . However , It is clear that Arabic is not a language , It is a dialect composed of many borrowed words from other languages . As a matter of fact . 50% of The Arabic language is foreign word from other dialects of The Semitic Family . This is something that most Muslims don't want to admit .

Now , Getting back to the point , In the original Qur'anic script you will not find the letters ; Baa , Taa,Thaa . Dhal , Zay , Sheen ,Daad , Zaa , Ghiyn , or Qaf , Again these letters weren't found because there were originally , No Nuqta Dots , On the letters . If The Nuqtas were not addded to the letters , Most people could not tell the difference bettween A Baa , Taa , And Thaa

. The same applies to the letters Sheen , And Siyn , Daad , And Saad , And the likes . As you place The Nuqta over different letters , It changes the meaning of the word . Take a look at the following chart .

Word .......... Variations Of Word

Hamada .......... Dahaba

Hamadha.......... Dhahaba

Khamada ......... Dahata

Khamadha......... Dhahata

Jamada ......... Dahata

Hamadha ........ Dhahatha

The Dots that did appear , Were the systems that Muslims brought about in the name of preseriving The Qur'an , Only made things more difficult for readers of The Qur'an . This happened because they were trying to bring A Primitive document into Modern times . Arabic was controlled by Poets , and The Prophet Muhammad ( PBUH ) was not a poet . In fact , The Qur'an speaks against them ( Qur'an 69 ; 41 , 36 ; 69 ) . Thus , His book was not receiving any respect . So , It became necessary to improve upon the words of By Men . And Muslims are so blind , That they can't see the Evil in that . The Qur'an claims of itself to be '' Total Complete '' And '' Without Any Doubt '' ( Qu'an 2 ; 1 ) .

It claims to be A '' Clear '' Message ( Qur'an 15 ; 1 ) . Yet , They had to improve upon it with their grammatical system , Which makes it impossible for anyone to fully understand ; Which leaves them the right to interpret it the way they wish by creating meaning for each word to fit into their newly formed Judaic Christian Sect Islam . Muslims will have to admit that they don't have the Original Qur'an . The Qur'an that they hold in their hands today . Is Not the Original . Ask any Sincere Muslim , Do they have the Original Koran , They will say '' We Have The Oldest Copy Of The Koran '' Or This Qur'an Has No Doubt In It '' However ( Oldest Does Not Mean Original ) and The Qur'an does have doubt in the form of many mistakes . Sorry , But it has been proven that it does . The Qur'an that you hold in your hand .

Today has been proven fallible . It does have mistakes in The Arabic , And mistranslations in The English , Contradictions , And the mistakes go on and on . And being that Muslims don't have The Original Quraan , They have no foundation for their Religion without it . Some Muslims have a habit of talking about The Qur'an like it is so unique or Original , And it comes from Judaic and Christian teachings and books .

( The very Qur'an puts forth A 1400 Year Old Challenge To Produce A Book Or A Chapter Or A Verse Like It ; Claiming That It Is Impossible For Anyone With The Help Of All The Pages And Al The Ink In The World . To Produce One Verse . Chapter Or The Whole Book Like It . And This Request Was Made In Several Places In Qur'an 52 ; 34 , 17 ; 88 , 11 ; 13 and 2 ; 23 . Well Guess What ? It Took Many Years For Anyone To Take The Challenge Seriously . But When They Did . The Challenge Was Met In The Year 1987 A.D. In A Book Entitled '' The Life Of The Messiah In A Classical Arabic Tongue '' By Abdo . You Can Acquite This Book From The Zwemer Institure , P.O.Box 385 , Altadena California U.S.A. The Qur'an Eloquence Was Met By A Great Poet From Lebanon By A Man Named Kahlil Gibran In A Book He Wrote Entitled '' The Prophet '' And The Muslims World Thought It Could Not Be Done ) .

Christians mocked the very style of The Qur'an , Phrases and The Tasmiyya . This goes to show that it can be done and that Anybody Can '' Produce The Like Thereof '' The Book is divided into 30 Chapters and is comprised of verses compiled from The Gospels of four Disciples ; Matthew , Mark , Luke , And John . According to the author , The book was written to show Muslims that The Challenge they have been making for 1400 years . Has finally been Met ,

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:23 am

Daniyal;917607 wrote: First I'm Not Christian Overstand , The Helping Hand Everyone Looking For Is At The End Of One Own Arm . Not Some Made Book Ok . Now Back To The Above Post , According To Your Own Qur'aan Isa Son Of Mary Is The God Of The Qur'aan .

To Answer Your Other Question; Read Below Veryyyyyyyyyy Slowlyyyyyyyy

( The Muslims Challenge Has / Was Met )

In the famous Orthodox Sunni Muslim dictionary entitled '' Dictionary Of Islam '' Arabic is described as '' By Reason Of It's Incomparable Excellence Is Called Al Lughah . Of The Language . '' Very little has been written about the origing of the so-called Arabic language . However , It is clear that Arabic is not a language , It is a dialect composed of many borrowed words from other languages . As a matter of fact . 50% of The Arabic language is foreign word from other dialects of The Semitic Family . This is something that most Muslims don't want to admit .

Now , Getting back to the point , In the original Qur'anic script you will not find the letters ; Baa , Taa,Thaa . Dhal , Zay , Sheen ,Daad , Zaa , Ghiyn , or Qaf , Again these letters weren't found because there were originally , No Nuqta Dots , On the letters . If The Nuqtas were not addded to the letters , Most people could not tell the difference bettween A Baa , Taa , And Thaa

. The same applies to the letters Sheen , And Siyn , Daad , And Saad , And the likes . As you place The Nuqta over different letters , It changes the meaning of the word . Take a look at the following chart .

Word .......... Variations Of Word

Hamada .......... Dahaba

Hamadha.......... Dhahaba

Khamada ......... Dahata

Khamadha......... Dhahata

Jamada ......... Dahata

Hamadha ........ Dhahatha

Ignoring the silliness about Arabic containing borrowings from other languages (as if English is not almost totally composed of borrowings), there's a very basic and fundamental flaw in this argument - the Qur'an has been in continuous use since it was written.

The Qur'anic scholars were not in the position of a German professor of languages studying the possibilities - it was, is and always has been a living document since it's origin. There is no way that a passage could be about a bunch of grapes one day and about Houris the next because the change is too drastic not to be noticed.

Imagine, if you would, a monk in his cell of the Scriptorium making an error of that magnitude whilst copying the Bible - the moment the copy hit the lectern during Mass the mistake would be called out and the copy scrubbed. It would not spread throughout the Christian world and be accepted as the true version which is the direct equivalent of what you are suggesting.

It is one thing going to a thirteen hundred year old source and saying "it could be read this way" - it is a totally different thing to suggest that such a change of meaning occurred between one day and the next in a document as important to the readers as the Qur'an.

BTW - did you know that Arabic newspapers are also printed without the dots? Chaos does not ensue because the meaning is clear from the context - Arabic readers are used to the possible confusion and practised at choosing the correct alternative.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:31 am

Bryn Mawr;917944 wrote: Ignoring the silliness about Arabic containing borrowings from other languages (as if English is not almost totally composed of borrowings), there's a very basic and fundamental flaw in this argument - the Qur'an has been in continuous use since it was written.

The Qur'anic scholars were not in the position of a German professor of languages studying the possibilities - it was, is and always has been a living document since it's origin. There is no way that a passage could be about a bunch of grapes one day and about Houris the next because the change is too drastic not to be noticed.

Imagine, if you would, a monk in his cell of the Scriptorium making an error of that magnitude whilst copying the Bible - the moment the copy hit the lectern during Mass the mistake would be called out and the copy scrubbed. It would not spread throughout the Christian world and be accepted as the true version which is the direct equivalent of what you are suggesting.

It is one thing going to a thirteen hundred year old source and saying "it could be read this way" - it is a totally different thing to suggest that such a change of meaning occurred between one day and the next in a document as important to the readers as the Qur'an.

BTW - did you know that Arabic newspapers are also printed without the dots? Chaos does not ensue because the meaning is clear from the context - Arabic readers are used to the possible confusion and practised at choosing the correct alternative.

Al Moom Ta Roon

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:05 pm

Daniyal;917953 wrote: Al Moom Ta Roon

If you'd care to translate that into a sensible response maybe we could discuss it.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:06 pm

Bryn Mawr;918007 wrote: If you'd care to translate that into a sensible response maybe we could discuss it.
Welcome back Bryn.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:12 pm

YZGI;918009 wrote: Welcome back Bryn.

Apart from spending ten hours in the office today rather than on the boat, it's good to be back :-6

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:25 pm

Bryn Mawr;918007 wrote: If you'd care to translate that into a sensible response maybe we could discuss it.

In Post 185 You Claim You Knew The Language , You Mean To Say You Spoke Out Of Trun Again !!!!!!!!!

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:32 pm

Daniyal;918112 wrote: In Post 185 You Claim You Knew The Language , You Mean To Say You Spoke Out Of Trun Again !!!!!!!!!

Can you show me where, in post #185, I claimed to be able to speak Arabic (or is that not what you mean by "know the language"?)?

I was pointing out a logical fallacy in your argument.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:42 pm

Bryn Mawr;918120 wrote: Can you show me where, in post #185, I claimed to be able to speak Arabic (or is that not what you mean by "know the language"?)?

I was pointing out a logical fallacy in your argument.

Picking Few Words Out Doesn't Prove / Shows Anything . Logical Fallacy

Another Spot I See .......

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:51 pm

Daniyal;918134 wrote: Picking Few Words Out Doesn't Prove / Shows Anything . Logical Fallacy

Another Spot I See .......

I do not understand where you see my post as "picking a few words out".

If you are referring to the grapes / houris transform then that was a single example of the type of change that has been suggested - it was not the basis of my argument. If you have any reason to suggest that the argument itself is unsound then I would be interested in hearing it.

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 1:58 pm

Bryn Mawr;918147 wrote: I do not understand where you see my post as "picking a few words out".

If you are referring to the grapes / houris transform then that was a single example of the type of change that has been suggested - it was not the basis of my argument. If you have any reason to suggest that the argument itself is unsound then I would be interested in hearing it.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Laterrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 2:09 pm

Daniyal;918154 wrote: LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL Laterrrrrrrrrrrrrr

It's early yet - I'll wait.

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:14 pm

Daniyal;917607 wrote: First I'm Not Christian Overstand , The Helping Hand Everyone Looking For Is At The End Of One Own Arm . Not Some Made Book Ok . Now Back To The Above Post , According To Your Own Qur'aan Isa Son Of Mary Is The God Of The Qur'aan .

To Answer Your Other Question; Read Below Veryyyyyyyyyy Slowlyyyyyyyy

( The Muslims Challenge Has / Was Met )

In the famous Orthodox Sunni Muslim dictionary entitled '' Dictionary Of Islam '' Arabic is described as '' By Reason Of It's Incomparable Excellence Is Called Al Lughah . Of The Language . '' Very little has been written about the origing of the so-called Arabic language . However , It is clear that Arabic is not a language , It is a dialect composed of many borrowed words from other languages . As a matter of fact . 50% of The Arabic language is foreign word from other dialects of The Semitic Family . This is something that most Muslims don't want to admit . As far as I know arabic language has about two times more vacobularies then english has and isn't it normal a language has some other terms or words from neighbore cultures and language (if it is) and again as far as i know english has many words terms taken from latin, german, and french, but anyway it does not matter to me at all

Now , Getting back to the point , In the original Qur'anic script you will not find the letters ; Baa , Taa,Thaa . Dhal , Zay , Sheen ,Daad , Zaa , Ghiyn , or Qaf , Again these letters weren't found because there were originally , No Nuqta Dots , On the letters . If The Nuqtas were not addded to the letters , Most people could not tell the difference bettween A Baa , Taa , And Thaa

. The same applies to the letters Sheen , And Siyn , Daad , And Saad , And the likes . As you place The Nuqta over different letters , It changes the meaning of the word . Take a look at the following chart .

Word .......... Variations Of Word

Hamada .......... Dahaba

Hamadha.......... Dhahaba

Khamada ......... Dahata

Khamadha......... Dhahata

Jamada ......... Dahata

Hamadha ........ Dhahatha

The Dots that did appear , Were the systems that Muslims brought about in the name of preseriving The Qur'an , Only made things more difficult for readers of The Qur'an . This happened because they were trying to bring A Primitive document into Modern times . Arabic was controlled by Poets , and The Prophet Muhammad ( PBUH ) was not a poet . In fact , The Qur'an speaks against them ( Qur'an 69 ; 41 , 36 ; 69 ) . Thus , His book was not receiving any respect . So , It became necessary to improve upon the words of By Men . And Muslims are so blind , That they can't see the Evil in that . The Qur'an claims of itself to be '' Total Complete '' And '' Without Any Doubt '' ( Qu'an 2 ; 1 ) . I am sorry but all these things that you re saying, meaninless,

It claims to be A '' Clear '' Message ( Qur'an 15 ; 1 ) . Yet , They had to improve upon it with their grammatical system , Which makes it impossible for anyone to fully understand ; Which leaves them the right to interpret it the way they wish by creating meaning for each word to fit into their newly formed Judaic Christian Sect Islam . Muslims will have to admit that they don't have the Original Qur'an . The Qur'an that they hold in their hands today . Is Not the Original how do you know that ? did you test it? i did not read but i saw many old original copies of Quran but it still does not matter because there is way that you can test it , take one Quran in arabic language not translated where ever you are then ask your friends to buy another copies one from chine one from france maybe one from turkey and japan and then letter by letter make your comparassion with also original copy that you think if you see any difference i promise i will jump down from an one of the highest bridges in this world/. Ask any Sincere Muslim , Do they have the Original Koran , They will say '' We Have The Oldest Copy Of The Koran '' Or This Qur'an Has No Doubt In It '' However ( Oldest Does Not Mean Original ) and The Qur'an does have doubt in the form of many mistakes . Sorry , But it has been proven that it does . The Qur'an that you hold in your hand . You learned some about Islam and some other religions but i think you mixed them up, but you re not the only one who does that i know, honestly i can tell that i know pretty much about Islam and i have no doubt about it that is in my heart and in my mind and i know the things that i know about it is like a drop in ocean when i read masters book lik imam Ghazali, Imam Birgivi, imam Rabbani which known different name in english, i suggest you to read them if you have chance Ghazali is also biggest philosopher ever lived who explained and proved beginning of time

Today has been proven fallible . It does have mistakes in The Arabic , And mistranslations in The English , Contradictions , And the mistakes go on and on . And being that Muslims don't have The Original Quraan , They have no foundation for their Religion without it . Some Muslims have a habit of talking about The Qur'an like it is so unique or Original , And it comes from Judaic and Christian teachings and books .

( The very Qur'an puts forth A 1400 Year Old Challenge To Produce A Book Or A Chapter Or A Verse Like It ; Claiming That It Is Impossible For Anyone With The Help Of All The Pages And Al The Ink In The World To Produce One Verse . Chapter Or The Whole Book Like It . And This Request Was Made In Several Places In Qur'an 52 ; 34 , 17 ; 88 , 11 ; 13 and 2 ; 23 . Well Guess What ? It Took Many Years For Anyone To Take The Challenge Seriously . But When They Did . The Challenge Was Met In The Year 1987 A.D. In A Book Entitled '' The Life Of The Messiah In A Classical Arabic Tongue '' By Abdo . You Can Acquite This Book From The Zwemer Institure , P.O.Box 385 , Altadena California U.S.A. The Qur'an Eloquence Was Met By A Great Poet From Lebanon By A Man Named Kahlil Gibran In A Book He Wrote Entitled '' The Prophet '' And The Muslims World Thought It Could Not Be Done ) . We dont have fear from people who challenges to islam as long as they dont curse or insult God, islam or its Prophet,

Christians mocked the very style of The Qur'an , Phrases and The Tasmiyya . This goes to show that it can be done and that Anybody Can '' Produce The Like Thereof '' The Book is divided into 30 Chapters and is comprised of verses compiled from The Gospels of four Disciples ; Matthew , Mark , Luke , And John . According to the author , The book was written to show Muslims that The Challenge they have been making for 1400 years . Has finally been Met , I wonder what do you think about it ? what is right for you? or why do you exist? and what will happen when you die ? just please answer these questions too for me

cloverleaf · Post by **cloverleaf** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:44 pm

i know some philosophers asked questions like why do we exist or do we exist? some thought that we (he) does not exist this is just a dream and they died with these weird ideas i wonder did they ever had idea what will be waiting for them

there was someone that i knew told me that he is suffering in his life (he did not have any proplem else then money and NOT to be very good looking man) I told him that his problems are nothing more then anyone else and take your lesson and accept islam otherwise you ll be in endless fire forever, he said to me that if God puts him in hell fire he will scream at Him..... ok burn me burn... i told him that if you re honest about what you re saying, when you go home boil oil or water then put your hands in it and then try to say what will you say to God.

Death seems too far for most of us but its not that far and when it comes all the things that you lived will be lie or past in a second and like as Quran says when the people are waiting for judgement day in other side they will say that they stayed in the world less then a day .

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 2:41 am

cloverleaf;918269 wrote: I wonder what do you think about it ? what is right for you? or why do you exist? and what will happen when you die ? just please answer these questions too for me

First Let Me Say This And I Don't Mean No Disrespect I Do Not Give Nor Accept Personal Testimony Because They Can't Be Prove By No One , Other Then The Person Given Them . They Are Mostly Given To Convert People To There Religion. But I Will Say This The Helping Hand That Everyone Looking For Is At The End Of One Own Arm .