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spot wrote: On the contrary I wouldn't, for reasons which are quite legitimate but not generally known here. I entirely broke my mother's ability to control me at the age of ten, it isn't a matter I have any way of changing or coming to terms with and it damaged everyone concerned, not least my parents' subsequent relationship. It certainly isn't an area I want to explore any futher here.


my apologies ...spot.



one never knows with you.

flopstock wrote: If the worst a kid has ever known is to be given a 'timeout' when they repeatedly cross the line, we get what we have today... a world where it's all about 'me'.I don't think the concept of "timeout" ever entered the lives of my children, at least within their home.

flopstock wrote: When mine started up with it, she was told no, she was put to bed and then -I bit her back. She never again bit anyone, while that other monster was still doing it when they began kindergarten.






my mom did the same thing

I think mine consider it a parental duty by now.

flopstock wrote: and now i bet you only bite if asked to..:sneaky:


exactly ... and only where asked to. :sneaky:

ARgi wrote: exactly ... and only where asked to. :sneaky:


does Crispin bite?

spot wrote: I think mine consider it a parental duty by now.


we have something to learn from the animals... bite those brats and show them who's boss.



what say you?

zinkyusa wrote: does Crispin bite?


yes...but uh...i think we're getting offtopic. (i had nothing to do with it of course)

I found this while just looking around on information about spanking. It's interesting and makes some great points. Here's a quote..

One of the “crawling bugs mentioned earlier is violence in the entertainment industry. Endorsed by the AMA, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological Association, and the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, a document was published recognizing the hazards associated with children's exposure to violence, whether on television, in the movies, or a part of computer and video games. At this time, well over 1,000 studies - including reports from the surgeon general's office, the National Institute of Mental Health and numerous studies conducted by leading figures within our medical and public health organizations - point overwhelmingly to a causal connection between media violence and aggressive behavior in some children. They further stated that

" ‘Before he or she reaches the age of 18, the average child will witness more than 200,000 acts of violence on television, including 16,000 murders,’ said AMA Trustee J. Edward Hill, MD. ‘The link between media violence and real-life violence has been made by science time and again’ " (Stapleton). Does it not seem interesting that corporal punishment existed for centuries without major causes of violence, and the four forms of entertainment alleged to create violence has only been in existence for less than 75 years?

Another “bug in the house is the decay of the family unit. Mr. Moynihan, an assistant secretary in LBJ's Labor Department, in his famous 1965 report wrote, "There is one unmistakable lesson in American history: A community that allows a large number of men to grow up in broken families, dominated by women, never acquiring any stable relationship to male authority, never acquiring any rational expectations about the future -- that community asks for and gets chaos . . .. And it is richly deserved (Taste)." The issues of broken families and absent fathers began to escalate during World War II and increased from then until now. This is another issue to consider when looking at modern violence and uncontrolled anger.

A third issue to consider before completely pushing children’s aggressive behavior on corporal punishment is psychologists and educators themselves. Murray Straus states that several studies supported the theory that aggressive behavior followed sustained corporal punishment. The report continues, “However, for toddlers and for African-American children, they found the opposite. Gunnoe and Mariner suggest that this occurs because younger children and African-American children tend to regard corporal punishment as a legitimate parental behavior rather than as an aggressive act (Straus). This could indicate that educators and psychologists have instructed and inferred to school age children that their parents are wrong to spank them. In fact, they invite them to tell their teachers if their parents hit them. Perhaps these professionals are part of the cause that encourages children to resent their parents’ physical discipline. This results in anger and family conflict. These professionals may be guilty of taking away the parents’ “legitimate parental right to spank their own children in the kids mind thus creating aggressive rebellion toward authority.


For the rest of the article...http://www.mastersacademyonline.com/corporalpunish.htm

maybe those of you who are so anti-spanking should look at this and realize it's not the spankings that are causing the aggressive society.

ARgi wrote: we have something to learn from the animals... bite those brats and show them who's boss.



what say you?That my "I think mine consider it a parental duty by now" was in reference to "it was okay for me to embarrass them...and I can be pretty damned embarrassing", and not about teeth!!!

spot wrote: That my "I think mine consider it a parental duty by now" was in reference to "it was okay for me to embarrass them...and I can be pretty damned embarrassing", and not about teeth!!!


i know that... i was just teasing you.

Sheryl wrote: I found this while just looking around on information about spanking. It's interesting and makes some great points. Here's a quote..



For the rest of the article...http://www.mastersacademyonline.com/corporalpunish.htm

maybe those of you who are so anti-spanking should look at this and realize it's not the spankings that are causing the aggressive society.If you can find studies showing that not spanking causes harm to a growing child then you'll have sufficient evidence to argue against doing away with it as a means of conditioning children.

spot wrote: If you can find studies showing that not spanking causes harm to a growing child then you'll have sufficient evidence to argue against doing away with it as a means of conditioning children.


:sneaky: your on!

cherandbuster wrote: Red



I may admire your content



But I disagree with your form



This is how threads go downhill FAST.



Just my opinion :-6


Cher

I was called out. I called out in turn.

But it's fine if you disagree. No hard feelings.

ps: that's also what PM's are for. :-6

RedGlitter wrote: Cher

I was called out. I called out in turn.

But it's fine if you disagree. No hard feelings.

ps: that's also what PM's are for. :-6


Hi Red

Point well taken.

There are others in this thread that have used language that I consider inappropriate personal attacks. In my opinion, Mr. Ess in one of them as well.

Everyone is entitled to their thoughts. I just feel that *how* those thoughts are expressed is just as important as *what* those thoughts are.

But I disagree with the PM comment. This thread was a very open and honest discussion and I thought that my point was valid.

And absolutely NO hard feelings on my part as well. :-6

Here's what I have found so far..

http://www.nospank.net/nytimes2.htm

http://www.fdno.org/articles/movement.html

And finally the third. And what I found interesting bout this article was the evidence presented about how Sweden's increase in minor aggression against other minors has increased since the ban of spanking in Sweden in 1970.

http://parenthood.library.wisc.edu/Larz ... elere.html

Sheryl wrote: Here's what I have found so far..

http://www.nospank.net/nytimes2.htm

http://www.fdno.org/articles/movement.html

And finally the third. And what I found interesting bout this article was the evidence presented about how Sweden's increase in minor aggression against other minors has increased since the ban of spanking in Sweden in 1970.

http://parenthood.library.wisc.edu/Larz ... e.htmlThen you have perfectly valid evidence to support your point of view, which pleases me a lot.

I've read the above and some other things.

The one thing that bothers me the most is where I read that a kid took his parents to court for spanking him. I am glad I have already brought up my children because I have also seen a monther afraid of her son for fear of being taken to court. I wouldn't want to be a parent now.

spot wrote: If you can find studies showing that not spanking causes harm to a growing child then you'll have sufficient evidence to argue against doing away with it as a means of conditioning children.


Spot! I'm surprised.

cherandbuster wrote: Hi Red

There are others in this thread that have used language that I consider inappropriate personal attacks. In my opinion, Mr. Ess in one of them as well.




Where have I made a personal attack. Quote me, please. (BTW. It's not Mr Ess).

W. Ess (Dr)

William Ess wrote: 1. An indirect link.

2. Are you clinically qualified

3. It was the Victorians who abolished these institutions.

4. They were generally the one's who had grown up without parental influence. ie with no corporal punishment.

5. I think you should look at the industrial history of the period before making an ass of yourself. Many of the schools, houses, churches and similar amenities were built for purely philanthropic reasons by the entreprenurial families of the time.


Here is my example, Dr. Ess.

That reminds me of the podiatrist with whom I worked for five years. During my first year with him, I sent him a holiday card in December. I made the mistake of addressing the envelope "Mr. and Mrs. xxxxx"

As soon as I came into work on a Monday, he corrected the apparent lack of respect I showed him in doing so.

I found it rather pompous and arrogant myself.

cherandbuster wrote: Here is my example, Dr. Ess.

That reminds me of the podiatrist with whom I worked for five years. During my first year with him, I sent him a holiday card in December. I made the mistake of addressing the envelope "Mr. and Mrs. xxxxx"

As soon as I came into work on a Monday, he corrected the apparent lack of respect I showed him in doing so.

I found it rather pompous and arrogant myself.


I'm with you Cher, Jim and i live in a very prosperous area and the place is full of people who seem to think they are so much better than anyone else. I feel very much in awe for the people who had the drive and means to study and gain BA's etc, but do i think they should be given more respect than me? no way, just because i have no letters after my name doesn't mean i haven't worked as hard as them. I try and hope that we treat everyone with the same repect.

cherandbuster wrote: Here is my example, Dr. Ess.

That reminds me of the podiatrist with whom I worked for five years. During my first year with him, I sent him a holiday card in December. I made the mistake of addressing the envelope "Mr. and Mrs. xxxxx"

As soon as I came into work on a Monday, he corrected the apparent lack of respect I showed him in doing so.

I found it rather pompous and arrogant myself.


Presumably the reason why you are no longer working for him. I won't dignify your response with any further comment.

cherandbuster wrote: Here is my example, Dr. Ess.


("before making an ass of yourself")

Oh no! Not another application of manure, please! In the Yook "Ass" does not

equate to "Arse", merely "silly". Maybe you know all this. Anyway, I should be

doing the ironing.

flopstock wrote: :wah: :wah: I don't know why, but I suddenly got this visual of Felix Unger...



Sweetie, at this rate dignity is not much of an issue for you. A Real doctor would have just said 'sorry'. A snide little backhanded jab and duck away...way too clever for us to catch..:rolleyes:



Captain flopstock

astronaut


i find his self-importance cute. he's like a dignified puppy.

ARgi wrote: i find his self-importance cute. he's like a dignified puppy.


If so, it's time for him to get neutered

flopstock wrote: :wah: :wah: I don't know why, but I suddenly got this visual of Felix Unger...



Sweetie, at this rate dignity is not much of an issue for you. A Real doctor would have just said 'sorry'. A snide little backhanded jab and duck away...way too clever for us to catch..:rolleyes:



Captain flopstock

astronaut


I visualized Mr. French. Oh wait he was a butler wasn't he?

William Ess wrote: Presumably the reason why you are no longer working for him. I won't dignify your response with any further comment.


INMNSHO, you really need to quit with the snarky comments,

W.E.



Almost ALL of us in here have at one time or another used initials

or parts of people's names to refer to someone. Not knowing anything

else about them, that's how we proceed and what we do, like it or

not.



I can tell you right now, you'll be hard put to get the apellation

you seek with the sort of behavior you exhibit.

cherandbuster wrote: If so, it's time for him to get neutered


:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl

SnoozeControl wrote: So many stuffed shirts, so little time. :rolleyes:


:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl

flopstock wrote: :wah: :wah: I don't know why, but I suddenly got this visual of Felix Unger...



Sweetie, at this rate dignity is not much of an issue for you. A Real doctor would have just said 'sorry'. A snide little backhanded jab and duck away...way too clever for us to catch..:rolleyes:



Captain flopstock

astronaut


Maybe he could have sorry and ducked away

Maybe you guys could too

weber wrote: Maybe he could have sorry and ducked away



Maybe you guys could too


By "you guys" do you mean me, too?



I've been known to say I was sorry, but in this particular instance,

haven't said anything I'm sorry about.



:yh_bigsmi

valerie wrote: By "you guys" do you mean me, too?



I've been known to say I was sorry, but in this particular instance,

haven't said anything I'm sorry about.






Guess not Val

Probably didn't mean it for anybody:) Just at that moment it seemed like a lynching party, but maybe he was askin' for it.:-3 I dunno.:-2

Some spank

Some don't

Is there right and wrong here or is there choices And I am not talking about viscious abuse and punching. We all know that is wrong. But spanking is not viscious abuse and punching, etc, etc, Maybe there is a better word, but when I talk about spanking, I'm talking about a punishment that does not hurt the child other than their pride.

I don't Think Willie S is real. It's just a fictional persona the writer made up.

SnoozeControl wrote: That's optimistic of you.:-2

SnoozeControl wrote: That you don't think he's a real person, that is. Sort of hopeful.



Nevermind.Oh!



I'm an incurable optimist.

Originally Posted by Accountable

I don't Think Willie S is real. It's just a fictional persona the writer made up.

flopstock wrote: You mean like bill psychs? :wah:


Well - a William Ess does exist, I assume it's him. I'm sure you can find a

Bill Sikes if you try. As for "flopstock" - .