Are YOU down with the Clown?

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 5:05 pm

Yay! Yet another member in my Anti-ICP Army! Go TW2005!

abbey · Post by **abbey** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 11:50 pm

I downloaded a track last night, thought i'd see what all the fuss was about.

One word does spring to mind,

CRAP! :p

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:39 am

TxJuggalo wrote: I'm a juggalo through and through and I don't know if that will ever change.

it will

if your lucky

wait till you have kids then youll understand what this whole thread is about

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 4:40 am

very bored and alone wrote: anyone here like Britney Spears? :wah:
love her actually!

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 8:34 am

You first.

pink princess · Post by **pink princess** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:23 pm

i think eminems quite an interesting one, i dont think his lyrics are all necessarily teaching our kids hatred, i know theres some questionable language but an awful lot of what he says is actually true.....

ill dig out some of the lyrics later

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 3:33 pm

Whoa there , TW! This thread is about Insane Clown Posse. Eminem is in a different league. While I might not like his lyrics about beating his wife (he has issues with her) I'll agree that some of his social commentary is poignant and true. He has a conscience and has talked about his regret for influencing kids negatively.

The difference between Eminem and ICP is that he believes in what he's saying and doing. ICP just spews filth to make money and doesn't give a damn about the damage they're doing.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:10 pm

And TW if you think whites playing ghetto and jammin to Eminem makes you cool check out a REAL ghetto and park your car. Take a long walk at night thru the glorified streets of violence, poverty and pain and tell us all how much you still idolize it. I live in that environment and it sickens me to see young people emulate the bottom-feeders of our central cities.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:11 pm

Then again you are isolated from that! Myrtle Beach....true LaLaLand!

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:20 pm

TW2005 wrote: I know, look at what I was quoting. Mominiowa, said something about EM and I thought I would let here know hes not all that bad. Thats all, didnt mean to get you so upset.....Jives is easily irritated.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 4:36 pm

TW2005 wrote: Actually EM is white, so can he listen to his own music? Or does he have to spraypaint his skin to do that? I certainly hope that you dont think im a wigger! I listen to very little "gangsta rap." Maybe youre the one that thrives on the bottom-feeders lifestyle? You "live in that kind of environment"..... You openly talk about your treatments, which I assume consists of Marijuana, an aspect of the ghetto lifestyle.Ummmm, weed isn't the drug of choice in da hood. Being in a retirement community you wouldn't know. But being a rapster fan you SHOULD know crack & heroin are popular with your idols, not something as weak and mellow as Maryjane!

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:17 pm

David813 wrote: Jives is easily irritated.

I am not. Now take that back! :wah:

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:01 pm

David813 wrote: And TW if you think whites playing ghetto and jammin to Eminem makes you cool check out a REAL ghetto and park your car. Take a long walk at night thru the glorified streets of violence, poverty and pain and tell us all how much you still idolize it. I live in that environment and it sickens me to see young people emulate the bottom-feeders of our central cities.

Now you're on it, David! Music, TV, and movies that glorifiy violence is EXACTLY what I'm talking about in this thread. The sad state of your streets is the direct result of this kind of influence.

I agree with you whole-heartedly! People that think being a gangster, or being violent is cool should take a walk down Compton Blvd. at midnight.

I asked the kids to name a hero tonight at night school, Tupac Shakur was one of them, and so was a guy named "C-Murder". I asked the kid who named him why he picked this guy and he replied, "Because he shot a guy outside a nightclub."

Now...You have to understand, this kid is a great person. He just won a contest to design a poster to help kids with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. He's shy, nice to adults, respectful, polite, and a good boyfriend to his girlfriend. Just a normal kid in most respects.

Intrigued, since this is the VERY THING we are discussing here, I asked him, "Why does shooting a guy make this person a hero to you?" He stammered a bit then said, "The guy he shot was giving him lip, he said his songs were no good."

So I asked, "So if someone disagrees with you, or disrespcts you, it's OK to shoot them?" He knew that he couldn't answer yes, so he didn't answer at all. So I led him on a bit. "I know what you mean though, you like him because he stood up for himself, right?"

"Yeah",

"And you admire his musical talent?"

"Yeah, that's it."

"But, what if I don't like what you are saying,and I get up in your face, will you shoot me?"

"Yeah, ummm, I mean no...umm.. I'd never shoot a teacher."

I told him I would like to have a longer conversation about this at a future date., needless to say. (sigh)

This is what I'm talking about. The kind of insidious force that can convert a nice kid into a Killer-worshipper.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:30 pm

Jives wrote: Now you're on it, David! Music, TV, and movies that glorifiy violence is EXACTLY what I'm talking about in this thread. The sad state of your streets is the direct result of this kind of influence.

I agree with you whole-heartedly! People that think being a gangster, or being violent is cool should take a walk down Compton Blvd. at midnight.

I asked the kids to name a hero tonight at night school, Tupac Shakur was one of them, and so was a guy named "C-Murder". I asked the kid who named him why he picked this guy and he replied, "Because he shot a guy outside a nightclub."

Now...You have to understand, this kid is a great person. He just won a contest to design a poster to help kids with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. He's shy, nice to adults, respectful, polite, and a good boyfriend to his girlfriend. Just a normal kid in most respects.

Intrigued, since this is the VERY THING we are discussing here, I asked him, "Why does shooting a guy make this person a hero to you?" He stammered a bit then said, "The guy he shot was giving him lip, he said his songs were no good."

So I asked, "So if someone disagrees with you, or disrespcts you, it's OK to shoot them?" He knew that he couldn't answer yes, so he didn't answer at all. So I led him on a bit. "I know what you mean though, you like him because he stood up for himself, right?"

"Yeah",

"And you admire his musical talent?"

"Yeah, that's it."

"But, what if I don't like what you are saying,and I get up in your face, will you shoot me?"

"Yeah, ummm, I mean no...umm.. I'd never shoot a teacher."

I told him I would like to have a longer conversation about this at a future date., needless to say. (sigh)

This is what I'm talking about. The kind of insidious force that can convert a nice kid into a Killer-worshipper.Unbelievable! We agree on something! I was born and raised in upscale suburbs and had just about everything handed to me on a silver platter. My politics changed my worldview and to urban living I went, and have been since the early 80's. Both here and Chicago. The glorification of the ghetto is truly unsettling and has derailed so many vitally important minority youth into the dead end life'style' of drugs, gangs, crime and violence that threatens generation after generation. I see it daily, the toddlers in the street at 4am crying while daddy beats up mommy, teens gunning down teens, then targeting the mourners at the funeral home, filthy sexist language, the list goes on & on. Black youth in the 50's and 60's took beatings and rocks to the head to GO TO school and rise up out of where they were condemned by institutionalized racism. Now the kids ( in MY ghetto at least )drop out of school, attack kids on their way to school and devolve into thugs. Gangsta rap encourages this backward slide and acceptance of failure and violence. White yuppie kids dressing like these thugs, pumpin their filthy music into the suburban landscape, emulating murderers and crackheads, singing along to lyrics that degrade women to the level of an animal make me want to grab them and drop them off in the worst part of town possible and let them see for the 1st time what the gangsta culture is really celebrating! I'm no prude here Jives! I love speed metal, thrash, 70's Funk and alot of other music but the hiphop disease came from anger and hatred of society, and that's fine, but it offers to only drag you down as low as the lowest gangsta murderer will take you. So many inner-city youth have so much to offer! To bring about real social change and justice! Economic stability to their battered communities! Some do just that. Most are crunkin, crackin and killin eachother though. And they are the losers in this holocaust that has been laid in the path of our most at risk kids. I can't wait to move back to the burbs. This old Bolshevist has lost hope in inner city youth.

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:37 pm

David, I grew up in a town of population 993! Wow! What a different world.

btw...What exactly is "crunkin"?

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:48 pm

hotsauce wrote: David, I grew up in a town of population 993! Wow! What a different world.

btw...What exactly is "crunkin"?I love the city. Those from bigger places than KC are probably laughing but KC is 2 and a half million metrowide and has the 5th highest homicide rate in the US, per capita. I don't think I'd like living in a small town but I'm done with the ghetto life. Sure there are urban areas here that are mixed and not ghetto but they are pricey. People here, just 5 miles or so from the worst areas have never been and have no clue there ARE different worlds, and some of those world's should be stopped. Gangsta culture isn't about rebellion, social justice or progressiveness. It's all about consumerism, money, money and bling. It teaches our kids to treat women like dogs and justifies killing your own people for status. They PRAISE prison life! The baggy look comes from prison uniforms that had no belts, so they were baggy. Kids CELEBRATE this! I could scream, and cry at the same time. So much has been lost.

Tan · Post by **Tan** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:49 pm

Didn't they cause all the ruckus @ Woodstock? (Not the real Woodstock).

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:53 pm

hotsauce wrote: David, I grew up in a town of population 993! Wow! What a different world.

btw...What exactly is "crunkin"?Crunk is hard core dancing beats at a club. Deep and dirty dancin/thrustin/sign flashin hardcase gangsta posing. What Death Metal is to Rock&Roll Crunk is to Rap.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:55 pm

David813 wrote: Unbelievable! We agree on something!

It's a bloomin' miracle!

Naah, it was bound to happen, you're an intelligent man, and all intelligent people have a common ground somwhere.

Now the kids devolve into thugs. Gangsta rap encourages this backward slide and acceptance of failure and violence. White yuppie kids dressing like these thugs, pumpin their filthy music into the suburban landscape, emulating murderers and crackheads, singing along to lyrics that degrade women to the level of an animal make me want to grab them and drop them off in the worst part of town possible and let them see for the 1st time what the gangsta culture is really celebrating!

Damn! That's some good writing, there David.

I'm no prude here Jives! I love speed metal, thrash, 70's Funk and alot of other music but the hiphop disease came from anger and hatred of society, and that's fine, but it offers to only drag you down as low as the lowest gangsta murderer will take you.

I'm right there with you, buddy. I listened to Ozzy and Alice Cooper too. I still listen to some hard stuff occassionally, but you can be sure that none of those bands advocates murder, rape, and violence. That's just wrong.

This old Bolshevist has lost hope in inner city youth.

I haven't completely lost faith yet, but it sure does make it harder to do my job and give hope and skills to kids, when someone is screaming in their ear, "F*** this, I'm finna whoop this lady

Tied the b***h up to the lightpost

Slapped her in her face cuz I'm psycho

Beat her down and beat her up.

That's Insane Clown Posse at it's finest.

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:55 pm

Tan wrote: Didn't they cause all the ruckus @ Woodstock? (Not the real Woodstock).Yep, but alot of drunken frat boys also helped ruin this poorly planned remake of Woodstock.

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 6:55 pm

Well growing up in a small town gave you excueses to do dumb stuff too...because there was nothing to do! However, we would make out on a dirt road or drive around until we found someone to buy us beer. Different...different. Still not sure about "crukin". Is that like being a crook?

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:02 pm

hotsauce wrote: Well growing up in a small town gave you excueses to do dumb stuff too...because there was nothing to do! However, we would make out on a dirt road or drive around until we found someone to buy us beer. Different...different. Still not sure about "crukin". Is that like being a crook?

CRUNK is a music and dance style. Hardcore gangsta rap.

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:05 pm

yes, yes, crunk not cruk...lol...okay...got it...logging that in the dictionary right now. thanks!

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:08 pm

hotsauce wrote: yes, yes, crunk not cruk...lol...okay...got it...logging that in the dictionary right now. thanks!I better not hear you've been out crunkin! I'd be so disappointed!!:yh_shame

David813 · Post by **David813** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:17 pm

TW2005 wrote: Hey David, be careful, youre only 2 posts away from 666!!!!!!!!!!!:eek: SATAN IS CUMMIN TA GIT ME!!!!!!!!!!

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon May 02, 2005 11:59 am

Well... I can tellyou for a fact that the three girls I have in my class that love this band are all pregnant. Do you think they would've gotten that way without the promiscuous ness that their band spouts?

Why is the rate of pregnancy higher for these groupies than say for the band, three Doors Down?

Also, I consider the depression I see for these fans as caused by the black and dark music. The fans of this band are always obssessed with death and usually very depressed.

I consider serious depression damage, wouldn't you agree?

anastrophe · Post by **anastrophe** » Mon May 02, 2005 12:26 pm

Jives wrote: Well... I can tellyou for a fact that the three girls I have in my class that love this band are all pregnant. Do you think they would've gotten that way without the promiscuous ness that their band spouts?

Why is the rate of pregnancy higher for these groupies than say for the band, three Doors Down?

Also, I consider the depression I see for these fans as caused by the black and dark music. The fans of this band are always obssessed with death and usually very depressed.

I consider serious depression damage, wouldn't you agree?

ahem.

correlation != causation

death rates in hospitals are orders of magnitude higher than elsewhere. therefore, hospitals are dangerous to one's health, and we could reduce death rates significantly by closing all of them.

does the music cause the depression, or does being depressed cause them to listen to the music? is promiscuity a result of listening to the music, or are the promiscuous drawn to the music?

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Mon May 02, 2005 12:46 pm

Jives wrote: Well... I can tellyou for a fact that the three girls I have in my class that love this band are all pregnant. Do you think they would've gotten that way without the promiscuous ness that their band spouts?

Why is the rate of pregnancy higher for these groupies than say for the band, three Doors Down?

Also, I consider the depression I see for these fans as caused by the black and dark music. The fans of this band are always obssessed with death and usually very depressed.

I consider serious depression damage, wouldn't you agree?
band obsession linked with teen pregnancy rates. now that is interesting! something i probably should have thought more about, but haven't.

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon May 02, 2005 1:02 pm

anastrophe wrote: ahem.

Stop stealing my nuances.

death rates in hospitals are orders of magnitude higher than elsewhere. therefore, hospitals are dangerous to one's health, and we could reduce death rates significantly by closing all of them.

Ah! But hospitals do not cause disease, bacteria does. Eliminate bacteria and other disease vectors, and you would eliminate disease, possibly even death itself.

does the music cause the depression, or does being depressed cause them to listen to the music? is promiscuity a result of listening to the music, or are the promiscuous drawn to the music?

Death Music causes depression, that's my whole platform.

Promiscuous music causes emulation causes pregnancy. That's my point. I know you don't think it does, but statistically, over my entire career, I've seen too much correlation to ignore.

Remember, that when I propose something relating to teens and their behavior, I have literally thousands of cases to back me up. Most people only deal with a few teens in their lifetimes.

After observing for decades, and multiple cohorts, It's very clear to me that negative influences breed negative behavior. Why is that so hard to believe?

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Mon May 02, 2005 1:52 pm

Jives wrote: Stop stealing my nuances.

After observing for decades, and multiple cohorts, It's very clear to me that negative influences breed negative behavior. Why is that so hard to believe?

I believe you, Jives!

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon May 02, 2005 2:48 pm

Because it's true Skittles. Listening to, watching, and absorbing death, destruction, murder mayhem and violence all day long doesn't make you happier.

It makes you sadder. :-1

hotsauce · Post by **hotsauce** » Mon May 02, 2005 2:59 pm

skittles2004 wrote: Why do you believe him????
Because I work with teenagers...I was a teenager...I have feelings and I know how they can be manipulated...and I think Jives is cool. Don't you believe everything he says?

:p

Jives · Post by **Jives** » Mon May 02, 2005 3:03 pm

Ha! My power grows! Soon I will take over this insignificant planet.

Whoops! There goes my meglomania again! Now.... where's my medication?