Thanks cucumber........
I have been saying all alone that it seemed the hunters were not breaking any laws, but I didn't ever get an answer.. and your post finally shed light on it.
Thanks again and WELCOME!!!
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
Cucumber;1157024 wrote: I am a new member on here and I only joined to disband some of the utter twaddle Oscar is talking.
For your information, I depend on hunting for work. I have hunted regularly from childhood and now work full time for hunting.
I do however, see both sides of the argument.
Firstly, whatever the beliefs of the gentleman that died on Monday, it is utterly disgusting that members do not have sympathy. No one, whatever they do, deserves to die in such horrific circumstances. Note I say die - as in, if it was deliberate or otherwise.
Secondly, it is convenient that such vehement anti hunting activists seem to forget that the violence comes from both ends. I personally have been assaulted, twice, by anti hunting sabs. Similarly, I know that pro hunting people can equally step over the mark at times. I am not an idiot - things like this go on when passions run high.
The main point for me writing is to actually make the following point about illegal hunting, which, Oscar, for someone who claims to know so much actually makes you seem to know very little.
It is NOT ILLEGAL to hunt foxes with hounds. The government recognised that foxes needed to be culled and as such various exemptions within the act exist which allow for hunting to continue. These include using hounds to flush a fox/wild mammal to a bird of prey, and indeed a shotgun. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL to kill a fox, or use hounds in the process.
It is important to note here, that NO FOXES HAVE BEEN SAVED AS A RESULT OF THE HUNTING ACT. It is utterly naive on both sides to think it has. The law is extremely complex and has so many loopholes/exemptions etc it has meant that the hunts have flourished.
There are questions regarding civil liberties and class discrimination which run far deeper than the simple fox/hound argument. The law on hunting is an unworkable piece of legislation which is, and should be, an embarrassment to the British Government. Anti hunt protesters realise this now, which is why they are encouraged to go out and prove it needs enforcing. Unfortunately for every 26,752 hunting days, there has only been 1 prosecution of a registered a pack of fox hounds. The majority of convictions have been for poaching, which now falls under the Hunting Act, and was illegal (and rightly so) before the Act came into place. This is not the tread to have an ethical discussion on the pros and cons of fox hunting on, my point is that foxes are still being 'managed' and it will continue to go on - its actually a government requirement to control the fox population, as it is a government requirement to control the rabbit population (foxes now through other methods such as shooting and snaring, which in honesty have their own set of questionable ethics, but still happen and will continue too)
Ultimately, a man has died. He did not break the law in doing so - it is alleged that the person responsible for the gyrocopter is. Whatever he did, he has ended up dead. If he was an anti hunt protester, I would have sympathy for him, as I do for the anti hunting protesters who have lost their lives whilst protesting for what they believe in.
Oscar, whilst I appreciate our opinions differ, I am far better versed in fox hunting and the Hunting Act than you appear to be. Perhaps when you understand what goes on, why it happens, and the ethics behind it, you will change your mind like the last three Directors of the League Against Cruel sports, who now actively support the repeal of the Hunting Act and have changed their views on fox hunting to come in line with the pro hunting side. As you said, you are new. What we tend to do on this forum is actually read posts in full. When you have done that and commented about the arguments put forward regarding what exactly anti-protesters do instead of using this thread as an excuse to argue Party politics which is not the issue here, I will answer the issue's you have raised.
Welcome to FG
For your information, I depend on hunting for work. I have hunted regularly from childhood and now work full time for hunting.
I do however, see both sides of the argument.
Firstly, whatever the beliefs of the gentleman that died on Monday, it is utterly disgusting that members do not have sympathy. No one, whatever they do, deserves to die in such horrific circumstances. Note I say die - as in, if it was deliberate or otherwise.
Secondly, it is convenient that such vehement anti hunting activists seem to forget that the violence comes from both ends. I personally have been assaulted, twice, by anti hunting sabs. Similarly, I know that pro hunting people can equally step over the mark at times. I am not an idiot - things like this go on when passions run high.
The main point for me writing is to actually make the following point about illegal hunting, which, Oscar, for someone who claims to know so much actually makes you seem to know very little.
It is NOT ILLEGAL to hunt foxes with hounds. The government recognised that foxes needed to be culled and as such various exemptions within the act exist which allow for hunting to continue. These include using hounds to flush a fox/wild mammal to a bird of prey, and indeed a shotgun. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL to kill a fox, or use hounds in the process.
It is important to note here, that NO FOXES HAVE BEEN SAVED AS A RESULT OF THE HUNTING ACT. It is utterly naive on both sides to think it has. The law is extremely complex and has so many loopholes/exemptions etc it has meant that the hunts have flourished.
There are questions regarding civil liberties and class discrimination which run far deeper than the simple fox/hound argument. The law on hunting is an unworkable piece of legislation which is, and should be, an embarrassment to the British Government. Anti hunt protesters realise this now, which is why they are encouraged to go out and prove it needs enforcing. Unfortunately for every 26,752 hunting days, there has only been 1 prosecution of a registered a pack of fox hounds. The majority of convictions have been for poaching, which now falls under the Hunting Act, and was illegal (and rightly so) before the Act came into place. This is not the tread to have an ethical discussion on the pros and cons of fox hunting on, my point is that foxes are still being 'managed' and it will continue to go on - its actually a government requirement to control the fox population, as it is a government requirement to control the rabbit population (foxes now through other methods such as shooting and snaring, which in honesty have their own set of questionable ethics, but still happen and will continue too)
Ultimately, a man has died. He did not break the law in doing so - it is alleged that the person responsible for the gyrocopter is. Whatever he did, he has ended up dead. If he was an anti hunt protester, I would have sympathy for him, as I do for the anti hunting protesters who have lost their lives whilst protesting for what they believe in.
Oscar, whilst I appreciate our opinions differ, I am far better versed in fox hunting and the Hunting Act than you appear to be. Perhaps when you understand what goes on, why it happens, and the ethics behind it, you will change your mind like the last three Directors of the League Against Cruel sports, who now actively support the repeal of the Hunting Act and have changed their views on fox hunting to come in line with the pro hunting side. As you said, you are new. What we tend to do on this forum is actually read posts in full. When you have done that and commented about the arguments put forward regarding what exactly anti-protesters do instead of using this thread as an excuse to argue Party politics which is not the issue here, I will answer the issue's you have raised.
Welcome to FG
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
Helen;1156649 wrote: hi oscar,
just a little something for you when you get back..............
the winning jockey of the freddie williams plate at cheltenham today was Will Biddick, the son of one of the huntsmen from the north cornwall hounds !!! :wah: If you were watching him being led in and you saw a shoe whizzing past his ear........ that was me :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
just a little something for you when you get back..............
the winning jockey of the freddie williams plate at cheltenham today was Will Biddick, the son of one of the huntsmen from the north cornwall hounds !!! :wah: If you were watching him being led in and you saw a shoe whizzing past his ear........ that was me :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
Helen;1157010 wrote: hi oscar,
hope yer havin a brill time. pity i dont know what you look like, i could watch out for you on telly lol.
will be shouting for kauto star, as much as i want to see him win, i dont want dessie to lose his record !!
theres one running in my old racing colours, green and white, at 250/1............ Hi Helen, It's 2 am and not been home long. What a fabulous day today and what a result? It's later in the year that 'Kauto' will be looking to equal 'Dessie's' record at Ascot with his fourth consecustive win in the 'King George 1V Stakes'. Naturally I want to see 'Kauto' do it and even take a fifth title the following year but as a massive fan of 'Dessie', equally I'd like him to keep his his record. I'm knackered, it was a hard two days work. Will catch up tomorrow
hope yer havin a brill time. pity i dont know what you look like, i could watch out for you on telly lol.
will be shouting for kauto star, as much as i want to see him win, i dont want dessie to lose his record !!
theres one running in my old racing colours, green and white, at 250/1............ Hi Helen, It's 2 am and not been home long. What a fabulous day today and what a result? It's later in the year that 'Kauto' will be looking to equal 'Dessie's' record at Ascot with his fourth consecustive win in the 'King George 1V Stakes'. Naturally I want to see 'Kauto' do it and even take a fifth title the following year but as a massive fan of 'Dessie', equally I'd like him to keep his his record. I'm knackered, it was a hard two days work. Will catch up tomorrow
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
Cucumber;1157024 wrote: Secondly, it is convenient that such vehement anti hunting activists seem to forget that the violence comes from both ends. I personally have been assaulted, twice, by anti hunting sabs. Similarly, I know that pro hunting people can equally step over the mark at times. I am not an idiot - things like this go on when passions run high.
.Just one link from many.
HSA News and Press Releases
Do your research first.
http://www.leamingtoncourier.co.uk/Cust ... geID=46053
Note: In the above link.....Farmers feel it is a waste of time bringing in a hunt. Farmers say hunts do more damage than good.
Know any farmers do you?
.Just one link from many.
HSA News and Press Releases
Do your research first.
http://www.leamingtoncourier.co.uk/Cust ... geID=46053
Note: In the above link.....Farmers feel it is a waste of time bringing in a hunt. Farmers say hunts do more damage than good.
Know any farmers do you?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
oscar;1157311 wrote: Hi Helen, It's 2 am and not been home long. What a fabulous day today and what a result? It's later in the year that 'Kauto' will be looking to equal 'Dessie's' record at Ascot with his fourth consecustive win in the 'King George 1V Stakes'. Naturally I want to see 'Kauto' do it and even take a fifth title the following year but as a massive fan of 'Dessie', equally I'd like him to keep his his record. I'm knackered, it was a hard two days work. Will catch up tomorrow
Seeing as this is a hunters thread and and your yacking horse racing and all.
I thought it would be OK to play devils advocate.
So oscar, you love horse racing and all right? But you despise hunting as it is today right?
Well I thought you might like to see what others are hearing from you using this point of view....NOW I need to say I don't agree with it but it might help you feel what the hunters feel when you attack them and their love....
(I hope you can see how these exaggerations parallel your skewed point of view)
Don't you just hate it when others put down something you love with scare and most of the anti-hunter sites you link to are full of scare tactics just like these........... (IMO)
Horse Racing
Most people regard horse racing as a harmless sport in which the animals are willing participants who thoroughly enjoy the thrill. The truth is that, behind the scenes, lies a story of immense suffering.
Approximately 18,000 foals are born into the closely-related British and Irish racing industries each year, yet only around 40% go on to become racers. Those horses who do not make the grade may be slaughtered for meat or repeatedly change hands in a downward spiral of neglect. Of those horses who do go on to race, around 400 are raced to death every year.
Beneath its glamorous façade, commercial horse racing is a ruthless industry motivated by financial gain and prestige. Cruelty? You can bet on it!
The survivors are denied their freedom and pushed to their limits to serve the financial interests of trainers, owners and bookies. Because they are bred for speed, not strength, many sustain limb and other injuries and are shot
ANIMAL AID BACKGROUND NOTES ON THE HORSERACING INDUSTRY
Numbers
Approximately 18,000 foals are born into the closely-related British and Irish racing industries each year, yet only around 40% go on to race. Those horses who do not make the grade may be slaughtered for meat or repeatedly change hands in a downward spiral of neglect.
Around 6,000 horses leave British racing every year – the same number who enter it. Only a comparatively small proportion of the animals go on to become breeders or enjoy a decent, properly financed retirement.
Injuries & Deaths
An Animal Aid study of available evidence shows that around 420 horses are raced to death every year. The details can be viewed at http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/.
Some 38% of these fatalities occur during, or immediately after, a race, and result from: a broken leg, back, neck or pelvis; fatal spinal injuries; heart attack; or burst blood vessels. The other victims perish from training injuries or are killed after being assessed by their owners as no-hopers.
Serious racing-related illnesses are now endemic. 82% of flat race horses older than three years of age suffer from bleeding lungs (exercise-induced pulmonary haemorrhage). Gastric ulcers are present in no fewer than 93% of horses in training, in whom the condition gets progressively worse. When horses are retired, the condition improves.
Breeding
During a six month breeding season stallions can be required to cover three mares a day. Whereas 30 years ago, covering 100 mares in a year was almost unheard of, it is now routine for leading stallions to have 200 broodmares on their books.
Outside of the breeding shed, stallions are kept well separated from mares and other males. When not housed in their stable, they are confined behind high fences. And to minimise any chance of a costly injury, insurance policies usually state that they must not be ridden. It is a life of near isolation and deadening routine that – barring physical breakdown – can go on for 20 or more years.
Breeding females are subjected to drugs and prolonged periods of artificial light to control and speed up reproduction.
Left to their own devices, mares in the wild have one foal every two years, or perhaps twice every three years. They deliver in the spring, after a pregnancy lasting 11 months. The racing industry forces healthy and fertile mares to produce a foal every year – as soon after January 1 as possible. The commercial advantage of being born close to January 1 arises from the fact that they would be one year old and likely to fetch a better price at the crucial yearling sales than a horse that is, say, 9 months old.
In 1957, precisely 7,826 mares were retained for breeding purposes in Britain and Ireland. Together, they produced 4,254 live foals. By 2007, the figures had quadrupled – more than 30,000 mares had produced 18,472 foals.
National Hunt (Jump) racing
The majority of fatalities occur in jump racing. Horses used to be selectively bred for this sector. They were heavier-boned and more robust than the faster animals racing on the flat. Because of the increasing emphasis on speed in all racing sectors, horses entered into jump races are now more often ‘cast-offs’ from the flat. Deaths, as a consequence, are more common.
The five most hazardous of all the country’s courses are Sedgefield, Cheltenham, Plumpton, Stratford and Wincanton.
Grand National: Since 1997, 35 horses have died at the three-day annual meeting. The Grand National's fences are of variable height, with the most imposing being The Chair. It is some 5 ft 2in. high and has a huge ditch and spread. The Becher's Brook fence is an infamous killer. Graphic Approach was its latest victim - in April 2007.
Cheltenham: This is among the most hazardous of Britain's 59 courses. In 2006, 11 horses died at the Cheltenham Festival, while nine died in the previous three festivals. Cheltenham's downhill fences are notorious and over many decades have killed seasoned and novice horses alike. Even if they clear the fence rather than running into it, gravity can tend to bring them headfirst to the ground upon landing. In the 12 months following the 2007 Festival, there were eight equine deaths at Cheltenham.
Flat racing
Whereas bone fractures in animals racing on the flat were once comparatively rare, the attrition rate is now approaching that of jump racers. Amongst a typical group of 100 flat-racing horses, one fracture will occur every month.
In the 2006 Epsom Derby, top race horse Horatio Nelson was destroyed after sustaining catastrophic injuries, including fractured cannon and sesamoid bones, a dislocated fetlock joint and open wounds that exposed severe damage to blood vessels, nerves and ligaments.
Whipping
Hitting a racehorse with a whip of a specified design is regarded as acceptable by the racing authorities in Britain – namely the British Horseracing Authority (BHA), which regulates and enforces the rules as well as helping to organise, fund and promote racing.
Advocates of the whip argue that it assists horses to perform better and run more safely and that it provides helpful chastisement for when they behave 'badly'. Our report, A Hiding to Nothing (a meticulous analysis of 161 races involving 1500 horses, that were run between October and November 2003), shows that whipping horses is more likely to drive them off a true line and place them and other horses in danger. The same evidence shows that whipping horses is less likely to produce an 'improvement' in behaviour. Rather, they become fearful, hesitant and less likely to perform to their potential.
The report also shows that horses in a state of total exhaustion and out of contention were beaten. The whip was used on the neck and shoulders, as well as on the hindquarters. Horses being whipped 20, or even 30 or more times during a race was observed. Though the BHA rules were breached numerous times, regulatory stewards took no action.
40 of the 161 races featured in the survey (around 25%) were won by horses who were not subjected to any whipping.
Retirement
The Horserace Betting Levy Board (racing’s principal funding body) was established in the early 1960s when gambling laws were eased. It takes 10% of bookmakers’ annual gross profits and re-channels them into the industry and its associated activities. For 2006/7, the Levy Board was able to draw on close to £100 million. Scandalously, it thought fit to donate just £56,000 to Racehorse Rehabilitation and Retraining. This is an insultingly small amount (0.05% of the Levy’s total income) considering that some 5,000 horses leave British racing each year. There is an equal or an even greater need with respect to the annual ‘crop’ of Thoroughbreds who are produced for racing but never set foot on a racecourse. They are, instead, destroyed, sold off or given away to be used in other equestrian events.
ACTION POINTS
The following initiatives would have an important impact on the welfare of Thoroughbred horses. We need your assistance to ensure they are implemented.
The publication of comprehensive data on equine mortality, sickness and injury.
A ban on the whip. It is not merely cruel, but our research shows that it is counterproductive from the point of view of the rider.
A proper fund for retired Thoroughbreds.
An independent audit of all racecourses to determine what immediate steps can be taken to reduce mortality and injury. This would be done with reference to data on where and how horses have died and been injured.
A ban on the Grand National – a deliberately punishing and hazardous race.
Seeing as this is a hunters thread and and your yacking horse racing and all.
I thought it would be OK to play devils advocate.
So oscar, you love horse racing and all right? But you despise hunting as it is today right?
Well I thought you might like to see what others are hearing from you using this point of view....NOW I need to say I don't agree with it but it might help you feel what the hunters feel when you attack them and their love....
(I hope you can see how these exaggerations parallel your skewed point of view)
Don't you just hate it when others put down something you love with scare and most of the anti-hunter sites you link to are full of scare tactics just like these........... (IMO)
Horse Racing
Most people regard horse racing as a harmless sport in which the animals are willing participants who thoroughly enjoy the thrill. The truth is that, behind the scenes, lies a story of immense suffering.
Approximately 18,000 foals are born into the closely-related British and Irish racing industries each year, yet only around 40% go on to become racers. Those horses who do not make the grade may be slaughtered for meat or repeatedly change hands in a downward spiral of neglect. Of those horses who do go on to race, around 400 are raced to death every year.
Beneath its glamorous façade, commercial horse racing is a ruthless industry motivated by financial gain and prestige. Cruelty? You can bet on it!
The survivors are denied their freedom and pushed to their limits to serve the financial interests of trainers, owners and bookies. Because they are bred for speed, not strength, many sustain limb and other injuries and are shot
ANIMAL AID BACKGROUND NOTES ON THE HORSERACING INDUSTRY
Numbers
Approximately 18,000 foals are born into the closely-related British and Irish racing industries each year, yet only around 40% go on to race. Those horses who do not make the grade may be slaughtered for meat or repeatedly change hands in a downward spiral of neglect.
Around 6,000 horses leave British racing every year – the same number who enter it. Only a comparatively small proportion of the animals go on to become breeders or enjoy a decent, properly financed retirement.
Injuries & Deaths
An Animal Aid study of available evidence shows that around 420 horses are raced to death every year. The details can be viewed at http://www.horsedeathwatch.com/.
Some 38% of these fatalities occur during, or immediately after, a race, and result from: a broken leg, back, neck or pelvis; fatal spinal injuries; heart attack; or burst blood vessels. The other victims perish from training injuries or are killed after being assessed by their owners as no-hopers.
Serious racing-related illnesses are now endemic. 82% of flat race horses older than three years of age suffer from bleeding lungs (exercise-induced pulmonary haemorrhage). Gastric ulcers are present in no fewer than 93% of horses in training, in whom the condition gets progressively worse. When horses are retired, the condition improves.
Breeding
During a six month breeding season stallions can be required to cover three mares a day. Whereas 30 years ago, covering 100 mares in a year was almost unheard of, it is now routine for leading stallions to have 200 broodmares on their books.
Outside of the breeding shed, stallions are kept well separated from mares and other males. When not housed in their stable, they are confined behind high fences. And to minimise any chance of a costly injury, insurance policies usually state that they must not be ridden. It is a life of near isolation and deadening routine that – barring physical breakdown – can go on for 20 or more years.
Breeding females are subjected to drugs and prolonged periods of artificial light to control and speed up reproduction.
Left to their own devices, mares in the wild have one foal every two years, or perhaps twice every three years. They deliver in the spring, after a pregnancy lasting 11 months. The racing industry forces healthy and fertile mares to produce a foal every year – as soon after January 1 as possible. The commercial advantage of being born close to January 1 arises from the fact that they would be one year old and likely to fetch a better price at the crucial yearling sales than a horse that is, say, 9 months old.
In 1957, precisely 7,826 mares were retained for breeding purposes in Britain and Ireland. Together, they produced 4,254 live foals. By 2007, the figures had quadrupled – more than 30,000 mares had produced 18,472 foals.
National Hunt (Jump) racing
The majority of fatalities occur in jump racing. Horses used to be selectively bred for this sector. They were heavier-boned and more robust than the faster animals racing on the flat. Because of the increasing emphasis on speed in all racing sectors, horses entered into jump races are now more often ‘cast-offs’ from the flat. Deaths, as a consequence, are more common.
The five most hazardous of all the country’s courses are Sedgefield, Cheltenham, Plumpton, Stratford and Wincanton.
Grand National: Since 1997, 35 horses have died at the three-day annual meeting. The Grand National's fences are of variable height, with the most imposing being The Chair. It is some 5 ft 2in. high and has a huge ditch and spread. The Becher's Brook fence is an infamous killer. Graphic Approach was its latest victim - in April 2007.
Cheltenham: This is among the most hazardous of Britain's 59 courses. In 2006, 11 horses died at the Cheltenham Festival, while nine died in the previous three festivals. Cheltenham's downhill fences are notorious and over many decades have killed seasoned and novice horses alike. Even if they clear the fence rather than running into it, gravity can tend to bring them headfirst to the ground upon landing. In the 12 months following the 2007 Festival, there were eight equine deaths at Cheltenham.
Flat racing
Whereas bone fractures in animals racing on the flat were once comparatively rare, the attrition rate is now approaching that of jump racers. Amongst a typical group of 100 flat-racing horses, one fracture will occur every month.
In the 2006 Epsom Derby, top race horse Horatio Nelson was destroyed after sustaining catastrophic injuries, including fractured cannon and sesamoid bones, a dislocated fetlock joint and open wounds that exposed severe damage to blood vessels, nerves and ligaments.
Whipping
Hitting a racehorse with a whip of a specified design is regarded as acceptable by the racing authorities in Britain – namely the British Horseracing Authority (BHA), which regulates and enforces the rules as well as helping to organise, fund and promote racing.
Advocates of the whip argue that it assists horses to perform better and run more safely and that it provides helpful chastisement for when they behave 'badly'. Our report, A Hiding to Nothing (a meticulous analysis of 161 races involving 1500 horses, that were run between October and November 2003), shows that whipping horses is more likely to drive them off a true line and place them and other horses in danger. The same evidence shows that whipping horses is less likely to produce an 'improvement' in behaviour. Rather, they become fearful, hesitant and less likely to perform to their potential.
The report also shows that horses in a state of total exhaustion and out of contention were beaten. The whip was used on the neck and shoulders, as well as on the hindquarters. Horses being whipped 20, or even 30 or more times during a race was observed. Though the BHA rules were breached numerous times, regulatory stewards took no action.
40 of the 161 races featured in the survey (around 25%) were won by horses who were not subjected to any whipping.
Retirement
The Horserace Betting Levy Board (racing’s principal funding body) was established in the early 1960s when gambling laws were eased. It takes 10% of bookmakers’ annual gross profits and re-channels them into the industry and its associated activities. For 2006/7, the Levy Board was able to draw on close to £100 million. Scandalously, it thought fit to donate just £56,000 to Racehorse Rehabilitation and Retraining. This is an insultingly small amount (0.05% of the Levy’s total income) considering that some 5,000 horses leave British racing each year. There is an equal or an even greater need with respect to the annual ‘crop’ of Thoroughbreds who are produced for racing but never set foot on a racecourse. They are, instead, destroyed, sold off or given away to be used in other equestrian events.
ACTION POINTS
The following initiatives would have an important impact on the welfare of Thoroughbred horses. We need your assistance to ensure they are implemented.
The publication of comprehensive data on equine mortality, sickness and injury.
A ban on the whip. It is not merely cruel, but our research shows that it is counterproductive from the point of view of the rider.
A proper fund for retired Thoroughbreds.
An independent audit of all racecourses to determine what immediate steps can be taken to reduce mortality and injury. This would be done with reference to data on where and how horses have died and been injured.
A ban on the Grand National – a deliberately punishing and hazardous race.
"If America Was A Tree, The Left Would Root For The Termites...Greg Gutfeld."
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
BTS;1157364 wrote: Seeing as this is a hunters thread and and your yacking horse racing and all.
I thought it would be OK to play devils advocate.
So oscar, you love horse racing and all right? But you despise hunting as it is today right?
Well I thought you might like to see what others are hearing from you using this point of view....NOW I need to say I don't agree with it but it might help you feel what the hunters feel when you attack them and their love....
BTS....... I am really pushed for time today, sorry but i have to work again so just a quickie here. If you would like to start a thread re: The cruelty of Horse racing, I wiould happily debate with you on that. However i feel this thread is going all over the place. The thread is concerning weather the pilot has murdered a man. We have already gone off into fox welfare and our new member appears to have tried to bring the Labour Party politics into the thread. WE are in danger now of it veering off into horse-racing. Catch yer later.
I thought it would be OK to play devils advocate.
So oscar, you love horse racing and all right? But you despise hunting as it is today right?
Well I thought you might like to see what others are hearing from you using this point of view....NOW I need to say I don't agree with it but it might help you feel what the hunters feel when you attack them and their love....
BTS....... I am really pushed for time today, sorry but i have to work again so just a quickie here. If you would like to start a thread re: The cruelty of Horse racing, I wiould happily debate with you on that. However i feel this thread is going all over the place. The thread is concerning weather the pilot has murdered a man. We have already gone off into fox welfare and our new member appears to have tried to bring the Labour Party politics into the thread. WE are in danger now of it veering off into horse-racing. Catch yer later.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31840
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
The latest:
At the controls: First picture of 'hunt saboteur' charged with murder of hunt supporter decapitated by gyrocopter | Mail Online
Mr Morse was struck by the REAR mounted propeller. So he was murdered by the pilot who REVERSED into him?????? It gets more ridiculous as more comes out.
At the controls: First picture of 'hunt saboteur' charged with murder of hunt supporter decapitated by gyrocopter | Mail Online
Mr Morse was struck by the REAR mounted propeller. So he was murdered by the pilot who REVERSED into him?????? It gets more ridiculous as more comes out.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
oscar;1157874 wrote: The latest:
At the controls: First picture of 'hunt saboteur' charged with murder of hunt supporter decapitated by gyrocopter | Mail Online
Mr Morse was struck by the REAR mounted propeller. So he was murdered by the pilot who REVERSED into him?????? It gets more ridiculous as more comes out.
The article says police were still trying to work out how and why Mr Morse died, but they charge him with murder????
At the controls: First picture of 'hunt saboteur' charged with murder of hunt supporter decapitated by gyrocopter | Mail Online
Mr Morse was struck by the REAR mounted propeller. So he was murdered by the pilot who REVERSED into him?????? It gets more ridiculous as more comes out.
The article says police were still trying to work out how and why Mr Morse died, but they charge him with murder????
My dog's a cross between a Shihtzu and a Bulldog... It's a Bullsh!t..
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Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
dubs;1157881 wrote: The article says police were still trying to work out how and why Mr Morse died, but they charge him with murder???? Exactly!!!!! This latest article just about does it for me. How can it be murder if it was a rear mounted propeller? Utterly ludicrous. 
I have been rationally trying to see both sides of this but the only conclusion i can come to is that the man was dumb enough to get too close to the gyrocopter as it was taxi-ing the runway. If it was taxi-ing as reported, the blades would be in motion. He had to have approached it.
I have been rationally trying to see both sides of this but the only conclusion i can come to is that the man was dumb enough to get too close to the gyrocopter as it was taxi-ing the runway. If it was taxi-ing as reported, the blades would be in motion. He had to have approached it.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
Cucumber;1157024 wrote: Firstly, whatever the beliefs of the gentleman that died on Monday, it is utterly disgusting that members do not have sympathy. No one, whatever they do, deserves to die in such horrific circumstances. Note I say die - as in, if it was deliberate or otherwise. Who's offered "deserves to die" here? I haven't. Sympathy, on the other hand, is a different matter entirely. Sympathy involves a mutual suffering, one doesn't sympathize with the dead, one sympathizes with the living. For the dead, in this instance, I suspect I'll end up with considerable contempt but I'm definitely interested in whatever news emerges. How on earth can he have got himself into such a position? Why on earth was he stood on a runway alongside a manoeuvring bladed machine especially if he was antagonistic toward the objectives of its pilots? I think I used the word dork earlier. Can you suggest any reason why it might not be accurate?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
spot;1157893 wrote: Who's offered "deserves to die" here? I haven't. Sympathy, on the other hand, is a different matter entirely. Sympathy involves a mutual suffering, one doesn't sympathize with the dead, one sympathizes with the living. For the dead, in this instance, I suspect I'll end up with considerable contempt but I'm definitely interested in whatever news emerges. How on earth can he have got himself into such a position? Why on earth was he stood on a runway alongside a manoeuvring bladed machine especially if he was antagonistic toward the objectives of its pilots? I think I used the word dork earlier. Can you suggest any reason why it might not be accurate?
I think the word you used earlier was 'Prat' Spot but your bang on the nail anyway. Any form of derogatory label used to describe the inane action of Mr Morse is most fitting.
I think the word you used earlier was 'Prat' Spot but your bang on the nail anyway. Any form of derogatory label used to describe the inane action of Mr Morse is most fitting.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
Cucumber;1157024 wrote: It is NOT ILLEGAL to hunt foxes with hounds. The government recognised that foxes needed to be culled and as such various exemptions within the act exist which allow for hunting to continue. These include using hounds to flush a fox/wild mammal to a bird of prey, and indeed a shotgun. IT IS NOT ILLEGAL to kill a fox, or use hounds in the process.
You obviously understand exactly how disingenuous and misleading what you posted really is. Why post it?
There's a two-dog maximum rule for flushing, a no-chase rule for the field of "onlookers" and a shoot-immediately rule for the flushed animal. Why do you think sabs are there to film what actually happens? Because these bastards in red cheat, that's why, and then lie through their teeth and claim they didn't. If these hunters were honest they could never do what they do. The hunts can only do what they do now at the cost of those involved dishonourably perjuring themselves.
You obviously understand exactly how disingenuous and misleading what you posted really is. Why post it?
There's a two-dog maximum rule for flushing, a no-chase rule for the field of "onlookers" and a shoot-immediately rule for the flushed animal. Why do you think sabs are there to film what actually happens? Because these bastards in red cheat, that's why, and then lie through their teeth and claim they didn't. If these hunters were honest they could never do what they do. The hunts can only do what they do now at the cost of those involved dishonourably perjuring themselves.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
spot;1157903 wrote: You obviously understand exactly how disingenuous and misleading what you posted really is. Why post it?
There's a two-dog maximum rule for flushing, a no-chase rule for the field of "onlookers" and a shoot-immediately rule for the flushed animal. Why do you think sabs are there to film what actually happens? Because these bastards in red cheat, that's why, and then lie through their teeth and claim they didn't. If these hunters were honest they could never do what they do. The hunts can only do what they do at the cost of perjuring themselves. Thanks Spot. I actually declined from answering this idiotic post simply due to the inaccuracy. Your bang on again and if the poster doubts what you say, I have witnessed this myself and could aquire such film if needed. I highly suspect however, the poster merely wishes to remain blind to reality.
There's a two-dog maximum rule for flushing, a no-chase rule for the field of "onlookers" and a shoot-immediately rule for the flushed animal. Why do you think sabs are there to film what actually happens? Because these bastards in red cheat, that's why, and then lie through their teeth and claim they didn't. If these hunters were honest they could never do what they do. The hunts can only do what they do at the cost of perjuring themselves. Thanks Spot. I actually declined from answering this idiotic post simply due to the inaccuracy. Your bang on again and if the poster doubts what you say, I have witnessed this myself and could aquire such film if needed. I highly suspect however, the poster merely wishes to remain blind to reality.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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'Cucumber'... shame....... another two we got to first :yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl:yh_rotfl
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At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
spot;1157893 wrote: ? Why on earth was he stood on a runway alongside a manoeuvring bladed machine especially if he was antagonistic toward the objectives of its pilots? I think I used the word dork earlier. Can you suggest any reason why it might not be accurate?
Gyrocopter murder: Accused remanded in custody over death of hunt supporter 'decapitated' by propeller | Mail Online
The latest
Gyrocopter murder: Accused remanded in custody over death of hunt supporter 'decapitated' by propeller | Mail Online
The latest
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
It's unusual for anyone to be granted bail on a murder charge, maybe that's why he didn't apply. Odd though.
What on earth are those two thugs he's being escorted by? They can't be police, surely, not with Triad markings like those. I've seen more intelligent looking gorillas.
What on earth are those two thugs he's being escorted by? They can't be police, surely, not with Triad markings like those. I've seen more intelligent looking gorillas.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
spot;1162406 wrote: It's unusual for anyone to be granted bail on a murder charge, maybe that's why he didn't apply. Odd though.
What on earth are those two thugs he's being escorted by? They can't be police, surely, not with Triad markings like those. I've seen more intelligent looking gorillas. Are you sure that's not 'Sainsbury's in Bristol? They have a striking resemblence to security in my local store.
I suppose when placing him in bracelets, they are over-looking the fact that he was a law abiding citizen until the moron went looking for him at an airfield. This is one i shall watch very closely.
What on earth are those two thugs he's being escorted by? They can't be police, surely, not with Triad markings like those. I've seen more intelligent looking gorillas. Are you sure that's not 'Sainsbury's in Bristol? They have a striking resemblence to security in my local store.
I suppose when placing him in bracelets, they are over-looking the fact that he was a law abiding citizen until the moron went looking for him at an airfield. This is one i shall watch very closely.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
oscar;1162766 wrote: Are you sure that's not 'Sainsbury's in Bristol? They have a striking resemblence to security in my local store.
I suppose when placing him in bracelets, they are over-looking the fact that he was a law abiding citizen until the moron went looking for him at an airfield. This is one i shall watch very closely.
they have a striking resemblence to every doorman i know my son in law is one and hes just the same !!!!
I suppose when placing him in bracelets, they are over-looking the fact that he was a law abiding citizen until the moron went looking for him at an airfield. This is one i shall watch very closely.
they have a striking resemblence to every doorman i know
my son in law is one and hes just the same !!!!-
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Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
Helen;1165974 wrote: they have a striking resemblence to every doorman i know my son in law is one and hes just the same !!!! Perhaps the plod didn't have any officers available so they hired the Doorman from the City Hotel to step in? :yh_rotfl
my son in law is one and hes just the same !!!! Perhaps the plod didn't have any officers available so they hired the Doorman from the City Hotel to step in? :yh_rotflAt the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
Here we go, the trial's finally started...Birmingham Crown Court heard Mr Morse had been trying to stop Mr Griffiths, of Wiltshire Close, Bedworth, from taking off at the airport after stopping to refuel. The court also heard Mr Morse, 48, refused to move out of the way as Mr Griffiths moved towards him and he was caught by the rear propeller - which was spinning at nearly 200mph. The incident happened on 9 March 2009.
Prosecuting, Gareth Evans QC said Mr Morse had been deliberately trying to stop the gyrocopter from taking off. "That gyrocopter was being driven by this defendant along the runway of Long Marston airfield in Warwickshire," he said. "The blade of the rear propeller cleaved Mr Morse's head from top to bottom. Mercifully death was instantaneous."
Mr Griffiths is criminally liable for the death, he said. "We say he is guilty of manslaughter, we say he caused Trevor Morse's death by his own gross negligence."
BBC News - Hunt supporter died 'instantly' from gyrocopter blade
Prosecuting, Gareth Evans QC said Mr Morse had been deliberately trying to stop the gyrocopter from taking off. "That gyrocopter was being driven by this defendant along the runway of Long Marston airfield in Warwickshire," he said. "The blade of the rear propeller cleaved Mr Morse's head from top to bottom. Mercifully death was instantaneous."
Mr Griffiths is criminally liable for the death, he said. "We say he is guilty of manslaughter, we say he caused Trevor Morse's death by his own gross negligence."
BBC News - Hunt supporter died 'instantly' from gyrocopter blade
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
spot;1294047 wrote: Here we go, the trial's finally started...Birmingham Crown Court heard Mr Morse had been trying to stop Mr Griffiths, of Wiltshire Close, Bedworth, from taking off at the airport after stopping to refuel. The court also heard Mr Morse, 48, refused to move out of the way as Mr Griffiths moved towards him and he was caught by the rear propeller - which was spinning at nearly 200mph. The incident happened on 9 March 2009.
Prosecuting, Gareth Evans QC said Mr Morse had been deliberately trying to stop the gyrocopter from taking off. "That gyrocopter was being driven by this defendant along the runway of Long Marston airfield in Warwickshire," he said. "The blade of the rear propeller cleaved Mr Morse's head from top to bottom. Mercifully death was instantaneous."
Mr Griffiths is criminally liable for the death, he said. "We say he is guilty of manslaughter, we say he caused Trevor Morse's death by his own gross negligence."
BBC News - Hunt supporter died 'instantly' from gyrocopter blade
One of ther lamest plea's by the Prosecution I believe I have ever heard.
Prosecuting, Gareth Evans QC said Mr Morse had been deliberately trying to stop the gyrocopter from taking off. "That gyrocopter was being driven by this defendant along the runway of Long Marston airfield in Warwickshire," he said. "The blade of the rear propeller cleaved Mr Morse's head from top to bottom. Mercifully death was instantaneous."
Mr Griffiths is criminally liable for the death, he said. "We say he is guilty of manslaughter, we say he caused Trevor Morse's death by his own gross negligence."
BBC News - Hunt supporter died 'instantly' from gyrocopter blade
One of ther lamest plea's by the Prosecution I believe I have ever heard.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
Mr Griffiths has been putting his case to the jury:Before he landed to refuel, Griffiths told the court that he thought that hunt supporters had taken four shots at his aircraft. He said: “I saw a puff of light grey smoke coming up from the ground. My first thought was that it was a shotgun. It made me feel nervous.
Describing the moments after he landed and was confronted by Mr Morse, Griffiths added: “My first reaction was that he has found me. He knows where I am and now he’s telephoning for other people. He was walking up and down on his mobile phone. He was a big man. I felt very frightened. I thought he was bringing other people to the airfield. My anxiety at that point was through the roof. My primary concern was to get myself and the aircraft out of there as quickly as possible.
Coventry Telegraph - News - South Warwickshire News - Pilot tells trial of his fear of attack by hunt supporter at Long Marston airfield
Leaving ASAP seems an entirely reasonable act. It seems the idiot on the ground tried to keep the gyrocopter from taking off by continually and deliberately putting himself in the path of the gyrocopter while waiting for his mates to arrive.
Describing the moments after he landed and was confronted by Mr Morse, Griffiths added: “My first reaction was that he has found me. He knows where I am and now he’s telephoning for other people. He was walking up and down on his mobile phone. He was a big man. I felt very frightened. I thought he was bringing other people to the airfield. My anxiety at that point was through the roof. My primary concern was to get myself and the aircraft out of there as quickly as possible.
Coventry Telegraph - News - South Warwickshire News - Pilot tells trial of his fear of attack by hunt supporter at Long Marston airfield
Leaving ASAP seems an entirely reasonable act. It seems the idiot on the ground tried to keep the gyrocopter from taking off by continually and deliberately putting himself in the path of the gyrocopter while waiting for his mates to arrive.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
spot;1296321 wrote:
]Leaving ASAP seems an entirely reasonable act. It seems the idiot on the ground tried to keep the gyrocopter from taking off by continually and deliberately putting himself in the path of the gyrocopter while waiting for his mates to arrive.
From the very beggining of this ridiculous case, I asked several people what they would do In that position.
Every one of them said they would assume the guy was about to be aggressive and would leave ASAP by what ever means.
I totally agree.
]Leaving ASAP seems an entirely reasonable act. It seems the idiot on the ground tried to keep the gyrocopter from taking off by continually and deliberately putting himself in the path of the gyrocopter while waiting for his mates to arrive.
From the very beggining of this ridiculous case, I asked several people what they would do In that position.
Every one of them said they would assume the guy was about to be aggressive and would leave ASAP by what ever means.
I totally agree.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
Pilot Bryan Griffiths (55) cleared of manslaughter by gross negligence.
Pilot cleared of killing hunt supporter - Yahoo! News UK
Pilot cleared of killing hunt supporter - Yahoo! News UK
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
and leaves court with an unblemished character.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
Mind you, I'm glad there was a trial. it's not a matter for the police or DPP to decide, it has to be a court for that serious an event. What I take exception to is the vile slandering ways of prosecuting counsel. Back in Rome, if they lost a case they got the punishment they were calling for which made for healthier behavior.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
The CPS, bless their holey little cotton socks, seem to've bogged it up again.
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
There is one basic truth that still seems to escape anti-hunt groups: it is the role of the police, and no-one else, to uphold the law. Animal rights activists cannot appoint themselves to police hunting any more than any other activist can appoint themselves to police any other law
"To be foolish and to recognize that one is foolish, is better than to be foolish and imagine that one is wise."
Two held for murder of Pro-hunter
el guapo;1297548 wrote: There is one basic truth that still seems to escape anti-hunt groups: it is the role of the police, and no-one else, to uphold the law. Animal rights activists cannot appoint themselves to police hunting any more than any other activist can appoint themselves to police any other law
If they wish to film the public activities of the Hunt then they are entitled to do so - as are any members of the public. if the filmed record is then of use to the police in a criminal prosecution then so be it.
Where it does go beyond the law is where one side or the other use physical force, or the threat of physical force, to prevent the other side going about their lawful business.
It strikes me that both sides have been guilty of this in the past and that, in this case, it went way too far.
If they wish to film the public activities of the Hunt then they are entitled to do so - as are any members of the public. if the filmed record is then of use to the police in a criminal prosecution then so be it.
Where it does go beyond the law is where one side or the other use physical force, or the threat of physical force, to prevent the other side going about their lawful business.
It strikes me that both sides have been guilty of this in the past and that, in this case, it went way too far.