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hoppy;968585 wrote: "Dear Friend,

Thank you for contacting me about gun laws and the Second Amendment. I appreciate hearing from you on this important issue. Americans broadly agree that guns must be kept from those who may pose a threat, and that the rights of legitimate hunters and sportsmen should be protected.

We must work to ensure that guns do not fall into the hands of criminals or the mentally ill through an effective background check system. We also have to strike a reasonable balance between public safety and sportsmen's rights.

I will continue to work for effective gun laws, including reinstatement of the assault weapons ban that the last Congress allowed to expire, and effective law enforcement. I will also speak out against the culture of violence that traps so many of our young people.

Thank you again for contacting me on this important issue.

Sincerely,

Barack Obama"





There has been many new and more oppressive gun laws passed since gun enthusiasts first started hearing the above bucket of crap.


Nomad;968595 wrote: Which part is the bucket of crap ?

[...]

I dont get it.


hoppy;968597 wrote: You don't get it because you believe Obama. An unknown nobody who done nothing, a short while ago. Now, he's presidential material? God help us.


Nomad;968606 wrote: My question is exactly what part is crap ?


hoppy;968613 wrote: The whole Obama thing.
For Christ's sake, Hoppy, answer the man's question. Is Obama lying about his stand on the 2nd Amendment? Back it up. This is important.

Bless you Hoss, you are your father's son.

I didn't mean to imply that you were the only one ignoring some

things, others skipped right over it, too.

I respect your beliefs and admire you for the courage of your

convictions, regardless of whether I agree with them.

:-6

Accountable;968805 wrote: You're going to hurt your back, swinging that broad brush around like that.


Sorry but thats my opinion. I never said I tiptoed around nor will I start at this late age. I've been on other boards and saw the USA and Bush verbally beat up all over the place. As soon as I pick out flaws in some euro or other country, I get pounced on or ejected. Screw that.

Nomad;968575 wrote: Clint, much of that is preposterous.



*snip*



Supports abortion throughout the pregnancy

McCain No

Obama Yes



Obama supports 9th month abortions ?

Give me a break.



[...]
Unless I read wrong, he supports abortion without any restrictions at all. The thing that concerns, even amazes, me is that he fought against acknowledging a baby as human if it survived abortion.



This is an anti-Obama, anti-abortion link, but it sites and provides actual legislation bills and other official documents. CLICK

I think the Dems are in with the Republicans and McCain wins VIA rigged election 2008...

I'm not cynical or anything...<-----Notice the sarcasm...



:yh_bigsmi...

Accountable;967929 wrote: She deals with Canada pretty regularly. Not much experience but more than a freshman Illinois senator would have.

http://gov.state.ak.us/archive.php?id=1183&type=1


No dice Acc. Still voting for Obama and I voted for Hillary in the primary's. McCain is just Bush the 3rd in my book and will stack the supreme court with more right wing cronies.

qsducks;969093 wrote: No dice Acc. Still voting for Obama and I voted for Hillary in the primary's. McCain is just Bush the 3rd in my book and will stack the supreme court with more right wing cronies.
I don't care if the justices are left or right wing. If they do their jobs right and stick to the law, their politics are irrelevant. That's what I'd like to see, just one justice who puts their politics aside and sticks to the Constitution.

Accountable;969097 wrote: I don't care if the justices are left or right wing. If they do their jobs right and stick to the law, their politics are irrelevant. That's what I'd like to see, just one justice who puts their politics aside and sticks to the Constitution.


Don't you think it's a bit unethical for Antonin Scalia fishing with Dick Cheney?

Hoss;968790 wrote: [quote=Nomad;968604]



I still don't see the 'more of the same McCain' in comparison to George Bush. The only thing he’s the same on is tough on terrorism. Do you not believe there is a real and present threat out there?


I do believe there are people out there that want the west destroyed.

There always have been and there always will be but think about it, before 9/11 and after 9/11 has it changed your life ?

With the exception of dads life getting disrupted (which I think is wrong) our lives are still the routine they always were. We cant let rotten people dictate our ideals and thinking. And we did it all wrong by going into Iraq. That wasnt our cause or our mission. We invaded a nation without just cause.

There is a threat Hoss and were handling it.

hoppy;968613 wrote: The whole Obama thing. Running a nobody just because he's

1. Black.

2. Can read a speech.



I'll agree with you on ONE thing. You have every right to pi$$ away your vote on Obama if you choose to. I'll vote for the proven leaders. McCAIN -PALIN. OOOHRAH!


Clearly not a lot of thought went into #1 and #2

Hoss;968788 wrote:

This scares me. This line in particular, its wide open to discussion at a later date, later as in when he gets in power. : We also have to strike a reasonable balance between public safety and sportsmen's rights.



That tells me he is going to take away all but strict hunting weapons. Like England. No thanks. I'm a hunter and I want my choice of weapons to hunt what I want to. Not just a shotgun. I am my fathers mirror image when it comes to gun control issues. I want to be equally equipped with the criminals and the police, which could be both at anytime.


Hoss no one is taking handguns away. Its not going to happen. Period. Give the guy enough credit to understand thats an impossibility.

acc ;Worrying that the Dems will expand the gov't doesn't mean I think the Repubs will shrink it. Both parties are bad for America. If I had the right magic wand (mine's just for flowers),

Regardless we have to work with what we have. If I could turn tanks into paper tigers I would but thats only wishful thinking.

I understand your stance on constitutionalism but theres more grey than black and white.

The machine is just too big to reverse now.

Lets face it anyway, on the issue of economics and the practicalities of general day to day life nothing much ever changes.

The balance is intact.

They win a couple, you win a couple......

Hoss heres the thing, they dont even have a nation. They live in caves.



Remember now, 911 happened under our current administration. Kind of a big ooops for Bush.



Had to go to work Hoss

You have already earned my respect

Hoss;969191 wrote: That’s not the history of how rights are taken away in America. It's done insidiously and before you know it you're not allowed to carry a hunting knife. Leave gun rights alone. No negotiation, no compromise.




To be honest Im more concerned about the way this administration slyly peels away our privacy rights.

Now what is McCain gonna do now that his choice's 17 yr old daughter is pregnant? And now I'm reading that he knew about it. So much for family values.

qsducks;969401 wrote: Now what is McCain gonna do now that his choice's 17 yr old daughter is pregnant? And now I'm reading that he knew about it. So much for family values.


There is great value in a family being willing to stand by a daughter who is in a personal crisis. There is a great deal of family value in wanting to give life to the child. There is a great deal of family value in that her daughter and the baby's father plan to get married.

Going after this on a political basis is low class at best.

Clint;969642 wrote: There is great value in a family being willing to stand by a daughter who is in a personal crisis. There is a great deal of family value in wanting to give life to the child. There is a great deal of family value in that her daughter and the baby's father plan to get married.



Going after this on a political basis is low class at best.


So is going after a candidates wife ala Sean Hannity

Nomad;969643 wrote: So is going after a candidates wife ala Sean Hannity


As far as I know Palin's daughter hasn't made any political statements that make her fair game. Obama's wife has.

And I'm not defending loud mouth Hannity.

McCain has been running his campaign as the leader with experience.

Yet he chooses a running mate that has never made a foreign policy decision of her own and is under investigation for abuse of state power.



McCain is elderly. What if something happens to him in office, are we secure knowing Palin is our new leader ?

If so how do you reconcile the argument that experience is the key factor in McCains boasts ?

Clint;969652 wrote: As far as I know Palin's daughter hasn't made any political statements that make her fair game. Obama's wife has.



And I'm not defending loud mouth Hannity.


As long as your not defending him.

Still they really milked the "proud" statement to death. They snatched it and ran with it. Personally I thought the intent of the statement was one of jubilation as opposed to some dingy poke.

Nomad;969653 wrote: McCain has been running his campaign as the leader with experience.

Yet he chooses a running mate that has never made a foreign policy decision of her own and is under investigation for abuse of state power.



McCain is elderly. What if something happens to him in office, are we secure knowing Palin is our new leader ?

If so how do you reconcile the argument that experience is the key factor in McCains boasts ?


Now that I'm 60 I realize I didn't reach the apex of wisdom when I was 50. I expect to gain more wisdom between now and 70 and even more beyond. Age is not a liability.

McCain's running mate has made more decisions by far than Obama. Legislators debate and that is much different than making the decisions a Mayor or Governor have to make. It is more important for the President to have executive experience. We don't know if Obama can make a command decision or not...as far as we know he is totally untested.

Clint;969664 wrote: Now that I'm 60 I realize I didn't reach the apex of wisdom when I was 50. I expect to gain more wisdom between now and 70 and even more beyond. Age is not a liability.



McCain's running mate has made more decisions by far than Obama. Legislators debate and that is much different than making the decisions a Mayor or Governor have to make. It is more important for the President to have executive experience. We don't know if Obama can make a command decision or not...as far as we know he is totally untested.




When the average male life expectancy is 77.6 yrs its a critical issue to consider.

Ill take Biden.

Nomad;969694 wrote: When the average male life expectancy is 77.6 yrs its a critical issue to consider.

Ill take Biden.


McCain has longivity in his family.

Has Biden ever held an office where the buck stops with him?

Do you have a news article on the abuse of power issue?




http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hqP ... rDdds4gkYg







Has Biden ever held an office where the buck stops with him?




No but I thought the point was experience.

Nomad;969707 wrote: http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5hqP ... rDdds4gkYg







No but I thought the point was experience.


Experence is the point. Biden doesn't have any time in the driver's seat. He's spent 26 years as a critic...that's all.

qsducks;969105 wrote: Don't you think it's a bit unethical for Antonin Scalia fishing with Dick Cheney?
Off the top of my head, not in the least. Why would it be?

Hoss;969191 wrote: That’s not the history of how rights are taken away in America. It's done insidiously and before you know it you're not allowed to carry a hunting knife. Leave gun rights alone. No negotiation, no compromise.


Nomad;969194 wrote: To be honest Im more concerned about the way this administration slyly peels away our privacy rights.
This illustrates my point of how the two parties are one, and neither face is really interested in preserving, protecting, or defending the Constitution or our way of life. Both seek to peel away our rights and our liberty until we are completely dependent on and controlled by the federal government.

qsducks;969401 wrote: Now what is McCain gonna do now that his choice's 17 yr old daughter is pregnant? And now I'm reading that he knew about it. So much for family values.
You're kidding right? I have the feeling this is a no-win situation for them with you. Here are the options as I see it once the daughter got pregnant.



The family kicks her out in disgust.

The daughter gets an abortion.

The daughter has the baby then is forced to give it up for adoption (wouldn't matter if she wanted to or not, 'forced' would be the word the papers would use.

The family tries to hide the shameful facts.

The daughter and boyfriend decide to marry and raise the child they've created.

Which would not get that same comment from you? The daughter screwed up, but is taking responsibility for her actions. The family is rallying to make the best of a bad situation, imo. I call that outstanding family value.

eta: Didn't realize how far behind I was in this thread & that several people had responded. Didn't mean to pile on ya.

Accountable;969813 wrote: You're kidding right? I have the feeling this is a no-win situation for them with you. Here are the options as I see it once the daughter got pregnant.



The family kicks her out in disgust.

The daughter gets an abortion.

The daughter has the baby then is forced to give it up for adoption (wouldn't matter if she wanted to or not, 'forced' would be the word the papers would use.

The family tries to hide the shameful facts.

The daughter and boyfriend decide to marry and raise the child they've created.

Which would not get that same comment from you? The daughter screwed up, but is taking responsibility for her actions. The family is rallying to make the best of a bad situation, imo. I call that outstanding family value.

eta: Didn't realize how far behind I was in this thread & that several people had responded. Didn't mean to pile on ya.


I was trying to point out that Sarah Palin doesn't want sex ed taught in schools and is for abstinence only. And yes, it is not great to see your own 17yr old daughter pregnant. I do however, commend her for standing by her daughter. I don't however agree that the daughter should get married that young.

As for my daughter I have already discussed these issues with her and if she becomes involved with a guy I have stressed that I would like her to use her head and use birth control. Plus, if she came home pregnant she would have no problem getting support from my hubby & me. But at the end of the day, it is up to her and I would hope she would be smart enough to either have the baby and keep it or give it up for adoption.

I don't see why Palin's daughter's pregnancy is a issue.

sounds like the family is rallying around & supporting the young couple.

I do wonder if all Palin will be involved with and all the dirt digging maybe too overwhelming for her & her Family ?

Also, news/talk surfacing that the Palin's newborn baby (with down syndrome)

is really the daughter's child. ? News reported this over the weekend ? B.S.

any one else hear this?

Does any one else fear at the outcome of this election - there could possibly be a riot - & more?

Sorry, but this election is scaring me.

Patsy

Patsy Warnick;970328 wrote: I don't see why Palin's daughter's pregnancy is a issue.

sounds like the family is rallying around & supporting the young couple.

I do wonder if all Palin will be involved with and all the dirt digging maybe too overwhelming for her & her Family ?

Also, news/talk surfacing that the Palin's newborn baby (with down syndrome)

is really the daughter's child. ? News reported this over the weekend ? B.S.

any one else hear this?

Does any one else fear at the outcome of this election - there could possibly be a riot - & more?

Sorry, but this election is scaring me.

Patsy


Yeah, I read that over the weekend and that is why Palin came forth with the news about her daughter. Yikes, this election is scary. I don't feel she has any experience with foreign affairs and the idea of her sitting next the big button gives me the creeps.

qsducks;970338 wrote: Yeah, I read that over the weekend and that is why Palin came forth with the news about her daughter. Yikes, this election is scary. I don't feel she has any experience with foreign affairs and the idea of her sitting next the big button gives me the creeps.


No worries...

We'll leave that up to NORAD...

Hoss;969700 wrote:

Principled leaders make good decisions no matter where they end up at or what the subject is about. Sarah Palin, like John McCain is a principled leader.


The principled leader you speak of with an at-risk pregancy flew to

Texas at 8 months along and climbed back on a plane to Alaska

apparently in active labor (her water broke?) instead of staying

where she was to seek medical care.

The principled leader you speak of left her 3 day old special needs baby

to go BACK TO WORK.

I'm waiting to hear outcome on the investigation as to whether or not

she really wanted a trooper fired for divorcing her sister. But it really

doesn't matter, more of a curiosity to me than anything.

valerie;970427 wrote: The principled leader you speak of with an at-risk pregancy flew to

Texas at 8 months along and climbed back on a plane to Alaska

apparently in active labor (her water broke?) instead of staying

where she was to seek medical care.

The principled leader you speak of left her 3 day old special needs baby

to go BACK TO WORK.

I'm waiting to hear outcome on the investigation as to whether or not

she really wanted a trooper fired for divorcing her sister. But it really

doesn't matter, more of a curiosity to me than anything.


I read that she stopped in Seattle to give a speach after Texas and her husband wanted her home and to not give birth till she hit Alaska. Apparently he made a comment about not wanting her giving birth in Texas.:-5

qsducks;969401 wrote: Now what is McCain gonna do now that his choice's 17 yr old daughter is pregnant? And now I'm reading that he knew about it. So much for family values.


I don't think McCain is reported to be the father, so I don't see that there is much he can do? I think it takes real balls to walk the walk of pro-life and not get rid of an inconvenient problem. And I'm speaking here as someone who is pro choice.

Here's my problem with this.. the opportunity to be VP is apparently more important to her then protecting her 17 year old daughter from what she had to know was the crap fest about to be visited on her young head...

:mad:

And we wonder why kids today are so self absorbed..

flopstock;970450 wrote: I don't think McCain is reported to be the father, so I don't see that there is much he can do? I think it takes real balls to walk the walk of pro-life and not get rid of an inconvenient problem. And I'm speaking here as someone who is pro choice.

Here's my problem with this.. the opportunity to be VP is apparently more important to her then protecting her 17 year old daughter from what she had to know was the crap fest about to be visited on her young head...

:mad:

And we wonder why kids today are so self absorbed..


Totally agree with that Flop. Really, does this woman live under a rock? With the internet, 24/7 news everywhere? What was she thinking? I feel sorry for the daughter though as she is way too young to get married in my book. I think Palin is too self absorbed at the moment.

flopstock;970450 wrote: I don't think McCain is reported to be the father, so I don't see that there is much he can do? I think it takes real balls to walk the walk of pro-life and not get rid of an inconvenient problem. And I'm speaking here as someone who is pro choice.

Here's my problem with this.. the opportunity to be VP is apparently more important to her then protecting her 17 year old daughter from what she had to know was the crap fest about to be visited on her young head...

:mad:

And we wonder why kids today are so self absorbed..


I don't see any problem with a 17 year old being pregnant...Am I missing something here?......

K.Snyder;970458 wrote: I don't see any problem with a 17 year old being pregnant...Am I missing something here?......


That it's so common, no. But you rarely see a politician's daughter pregnant. I think Palin is over her head in this whole thing.

K.Snyder;970458 wrote: I don't see any problem with a 17 year old being pregnant...Am I missing something here?......


I have zero problem with it... I was a mother at 19 and married at 8 months the first time... the last time I was 41 and unmarried...

Zero problem with pregnancy at any age..

Jumbo problems with finding it more important to be vice president then to protect that child as much as possible from the crap that girl's having to put up with right now!