ForumGarden

It is very simple. Chrisitans just don't understand that God never promised them anything. He promised the Jews that He would be their protection and they his people but GOD never pomised the Christians anything. OK, all jokeing aside. What I am trying to say it this. People, PEOPLE, have manipulated a simple vision of unity, love, service and community into Christianity. PEOPLE are what is wrong with Christianity.

Far Rider,

Thank you for such a thoughtful and truthful post.

Programs, programs, programs, it seems to be the programs are choking the life out of Christianity. We ignore the natural processes of fellowship and being fed according to God’s economy.

It is giving of ourselves that brings food for our souls. When we replace the opportunity to give and experience spiritual feeding with programs, everyone loses.

We in America are very fond of saying “God bless America. What we should be saying is “America, bless God. We are constantly seeking ways to be blessed by God and his creation and we starve ourselves of the blessings in the progress.

We create programs so we don’t have to be bothered with one-on-one relationships with people we would rather not have to be so close to. Our programs become very sterile with the “experts doing the work and often getting paid for it.

I was once part of a congregation that was heavily involved in small groups. People gathered in each other’s homes and ministered to each other. The result was the enrichment of many lives. People were healed of all kinds of things simply by being able to work them out with other people who cared about them. The Pastor with the vision for the small groups moved on and his replacement was a program oriented introvert. He set up programs to deal with maladies identified by physiologists. The small groups shriveled and the programs grew. The congregation split for lack of a common vision. The people who could have had hope through the small groups were left to having their issues categorized and treated by experts who lacked a personal connection with them.

The health of Christianity depends on the vertical relationship we have with God being worked out horizontally with those God places close to us.

Far, your tree analogy is great. I have never seen a tree start from branches suspended in mid air and grow from the branches inward. Christianity has indeed separated itself from the trunk and is trying to operate independently resulting in the inability to draw from the Living Water and grow.

A man who made his living in agriculture and came to the Lord through being involved in small group ministry said something profound. He said, “I want be part of something that is green and growing. I think that’s what we all want.

Far Rider;689531 wrote: Oh Clint thank you, I thought when I was done writting that I should not post it. I thought long and hard before I did.

I am speaking to myself and my church as much as any.

I hope that came across too.


I understand speaking to yourself and it came across that way to me. It does start with us doesn't it? I need to remember that.

The only problem I see here is a far too narrow approach to the Christian faith and the judging of others.

Far too narrow.

The faith and God are so much bigger.

Talk of leaning on one's own understanding. Not necessarily wrong but only part of the truth.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted;689604 wrote: The only problem I see here is a far too narrow approach to the Christian faith and the judging of others.

Far too narrow.

The faith and God are so much bigger.

Talk of leaning on one's own understanding. Not necessarily wrong but only part of the truth.

Shalom

Ted:-6


Wow! Thanks Ted.

I still have a big problem with the way in which some Christians think it fit to condemn others' behaviour. I do this myself often but, on the rare occasions that I choose to look closely at what I'm doing, I find that my judgment is a reflection of what is in my own mind, a projection of those things I don't want to admit or know about myself. And though I hate to admit it, even this post says more about me than the "some Christians" I'm talking about.

Yet, in those rare moments when I feel close to God, what I feel is an awe inspiring, all encompassing love, far removed from condemnation, disapproval or judgment...an unconditional love.

Far Rider;689926 wrote: Theia,

I have to say that its difficult for me to come right out and say one way or another if someone is 'wrong'... it takes me a long time to come to a conclusion like that and I rarely say some one is. I suppose I am that 'some christian' you're refering to. I accept that.

The bible is a book, it has words, those words have meaning, precise meaning. there can be only one interpretation. I admit there can be many applications, but none the less only one interpretation.

God gives us discernment, wisdom and conscience and the Holy Spirit to assist us in determining what is right and what is wrong... When someone takes the bible out of sequence, context, or adds meaning, or removes portions and disregards them it takes away meaning or it alters the application. God's wisdom and discernment then comes into play and I must decide who or what I will believe, the original content and meaning or some human's error prone ways.

I'm somewhat tired of standing by and letting Gods word be misconstrude as Ted often does.

This world is filled with false teachers, I guess I don't mind pointing one or two out.


To be honest, Far, I've had time to think about why I felt the need to post what I did earlier on. And actually, I realised that I'm doing the very thing that I was criticising "some Christians" for...and I apologise for my hypocrisy. There was clearly some need on my part to point out what I saw as other people's "faults" and, in the process, try to disguise my own. Oh dear, back to the drawing board!

Far Rider;690317 wrote: Agreed, no doubt about that. You just perfectly summed up religion as presented in the real world.

Religion in the real world is self made, self desired and self determined. Which is exaclty what's wrong with Christianity today.


Ouch!!! Too true.

Far too many folks try to put the Divine into a box of their own construction not realizing that Divine will not be boxed in. This makes the Divine much smaller than the reality. I realize that the Divine cannot be grasped by mere human beings. The scripture writers tried very hard but have not succeeded.

It is interesting that FarRider should talk about one interpretation. That is rather a joke. There are some 22 000 Christian denominations around the world but Far seems to think that among all those he and he alone has the correct interpretation.



Far thinks I am a false teacher. He is not my judge and I will lay what I have said before the Divine if requested with complete confidence in God's grace and mercy. The Divine and the Divine alone is the judge. Those who judge will be judged accordingly.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted;691037 wrote: Far too many folks try to put the Divine into a box of their own construction not realizing that Divine will not be boxed in. This makes the Divine much smaller than the reality. I realize that the Divine cannot be grasped by mere human beings. The scripture writers tried very hard but have not succeeded.

It is interesting that FarRider should talk about one interpretation. That is rather a joke. There are some 22 000 Christian denominations around the world but Far seems to think that among all those he and he alone has the correct interpretation.



Far thinks I am a false teacher. He is not my judge and I will lay what I have said before the Divine if requested with complete confidence in God's grace and mercy. The Divine and the Divine alone is the judge. Those who judge will be judged accordingly.

Shalom

Ted:-6


Who is "the Divine"? You lay what you have before "the Divine" then look to God for grace and mercy??:-3

Clint:-6

If you had read some of my earlier posts you would know and there would be no need to ask the question.



Shalom

Ted:-6

FarRider:-6

You really do not want to understand. Perhaps you have a reading problem?? I've quite consistently said that we cannot come to grips, as humans, with the Divine, the Ultimate reality, Allah, God, Yahweh or whatever you call the Divine mystery of the cosmos. I have given no concept of this great mystery. It is only you who try to limit this mystery by placing Her/Him in a box by trying to define or describe this mystery. Much as the reformers tried to do when they invented a new religion which they called Christianity.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted;691178 wrote: Clint:-6

If you had read some of my earlier posts you would know and there would be no need to ask the question.



Shalom

Ted:-6


Required reading now... I wouldn't recommend it to someone who believes what the Bible teaches and wants to keep a strong faith in what they believe. However, if they study the books of some other "great religion" they will be totally safe.

FarRider:-6

You've got it turned around I fear. The reformers usurped the term Christianity. I am a member of the one Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church which is the original Christianity.

Perhaps it is you who should give up the claim to being Christian??

Shalom

Ted:-6

FarRider:-6

Do you have any idea as to what the term "catholic" means?

Shalom

Ted:-6

Clint:-6

If you wish to remain lacking in knowledge that is fine with me. You really have no idea.

Shalom

Ted:-6

FarRider:-6

Absolute nonsense.

(.)

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted;691200 wrote: Clint:-6

If you wish to remain lacking in knowledge that is fine with me. You really have no idea.

Shalom

Ted:-6


And you do. Of course you do. You have appointed yourself to be the authority therefore no one who disagrees with you has "no idea". The idea you are the source of knowledge is laughable.

Clint:-6

I realize how little we as humans know or understand. You on the contrary haven't reached that point yet.

(.) (.) (.)

Shalom

Ted:-6

Enter Ted the man of shalom and shalom goes out the door. We had managed to get back on the high ground there for a while but Ted doesn't care for those he can't convert.

My goodness Ted, can't you see how far you have elevated yourself in your own mind?

Clint:-6

Hardly correct. After some nine years of university education I realize just how little we as humans really know and how much there is to learn and how short the time is. Those who think they know a lot are living in a delusion.

You are being presumptuous in what you are saying. One can have shalom and still disagree with another.

Your use of the phrase "the high ground" is certainly most questionable.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted;693829 wrote: Clint:-6

Hardly correct. After some nine years of university education I realize just how little we as humans really know and how much there is to learn and how short the time is. Those who think they know a lot are living in a delusion.

You are being presumptuous in what you are saying. One can have shalom and still disagree with another.

Your use of the phrase "the high ground" is certainly most questionable.

Shalom

Ted:-6


Ted, you couldn't even let a thread about what's good about Christianity stand without pointing out what you think is wrong with some Christians. I need say no more.

sigh

Shalom

Ted:-6

Clint:-6

You seem to be permitted to express your opinion. Am I to be denied that right?

Shalom

Ted:-6

Clint:-6

It would appear that you have a problem with folks expressing an alternative opinion. You should be allowed to express yours "with some degree of authority" but apparently I should not do likewise. Hardly fair.

Shalom

Ted:-6

skittles:-6

Folks resort to sarcasm when they can no longer defend their position. LOL.

Shalom

Ted:-6

skittles:-6

Oh?

Shalom

Ted:-6