spot;615197 wrote: You seem to have very little idea of what left-wing liberal means in the real world, Adam. There may exist a left-wing liberal American but I've seen four-leaved clovers more often. Compared to me (a reasonably representative European left-wing liberal) what you think of as a left-wing liberal has fewer socialist pretensions than Genghis Khan.
Gore Vidal, for example, is a left-wing liberal. I doubt whether you'll find him dancing and pissing on Falwell's grave. Anyone who does is better described, instead, as a representative American. Uncouth, noisy and shallow.
Why do you call this a representative American?
Jerry Falwell has....
Jerry Falwell has....
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Jerry Falwell has....
Sweet Tooth;615208 wrote: I'm dissapointed in you spot! What ever happened to standing up for what you believe?I'm all for it, I just don't want anyone forcing the behaviour demanded by their belief onto anybody else, which tends to be a defining mark of a fundamentalist Christian.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jerry Falwell has....
zinkyusa;615211 wrote: Why do you call this a representative American?
When Saddam Hussein died, the reaction of representative Americans resembled the arab streets. There was virtual dancing on his grave, you could almost hear the celebratory gunfire into the air.
I'm paraphrasing, but I think I make my point. The more right-wing the website, the more celebratory the reaction.
Uncouth? Noisy? Shallow? Wouldn't you say so?
When Saddam Hussein died, the reaction of representative Americans resembled the arab streets. There was virtual dancing on his grave, you could almost hear the celebratory gunfire into the air.
I'm paraphrasing, but I think I make my point. The more right-wing the website, the more celebratory the reaction.
Uncouth? Noisy? Shallow? Wouldn't you say so?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jerry Falwell has....
spot;615214 wrote: When Saddam Hussein died, the reaction of representative Americans resembled the arab streets. There was virtual dancing on his grave, you could almost hear the celebratory gunfire into the air.
I'm paraphrasing, but I think I make my point. The more right-wing the website, the more celebratory the reaction.
Uncouth? Noisy? Shallow? Wouldn't you say so?
The only people dancing in American streets when Saddam was executed were transposed Iraqis.
Any moron can setup a website these days and they indicate nothing except the opionions of the posters.
Your statement as representative of an American is haughty, arrogant and ignorant. Wouldn't you say so?
I'm paraphrasing, but I think I make my point. The more right-wing the website, the more celebratory the reaction.
Uncouth? Noisy? Shallow? Wouldn't you say so?
The only people dancing in American streets when Saddam was executed were transposed Iraqis.
Any moron can setup a website these days and they indicate nothing except the opionions of the posters.
Your statement as representative of an American is haughty, arrogant and ignorant. Wouldn't you say so?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
-
Sweet Tooth
- Posts: 589
- Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:03 pm
Jerry Falwell has....
spot;615213 wrote: I'm all for it, I just don't want anyone forcing the behaviour demanded by their belief onto anybody else, which tends to be a defining mark of a fundamentalist Christian.
Im sure some fundamentalist Christians could say fine, but don't force your worldly ways on me- its a one lane highway no matter how you look at it.
Im sure some fundamentalist Christians could say fine, but don't force your worldly ways on me- its a one lane highway no matter how you look at it.
Jerry Falwell has....
zinkyusa;615216 wrote: The only people dancing in American streets when Saddam was executed were transposed Iraqis. Hah! Perhaps the rest of the membership has a better power of recall. We might leave it to them to make their mind up over this, and the alternative interpretations it's given rise to between us.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jerry Falwell has....
Sweet Tooth;615218 wrote: Im sure some fundamentalist Christians could say fine, but don't force your worldly ways on me- its a one lane highway no matter how you look at it.Not in the slightest, Sweet Tooth. Go back through the thread and check, I haven't moved the least scintilla toward trying to force any worldly way on so much as one fundamentalist Christian. It's not a one-way street in the slightest. I even offered a verse to mark the passing of Jerry Falwell and a reflective funeral hymn for those who wanted to pause and consider his life, and I was pleased to do so.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Jerry Falwell has....
spot:-6
I am in agreement with your comments. Sometimes the Christian attitude seems no better than anyone else's. That is hardly a reflection of the life and teachings of Jesus. But that is sthe nature of picking and choosing, which they deny.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I am in agreement with your comments. Sometimes the Christian attitude seems no better than anyone else's. That is hardly a reflection of the life and teachings of Jesus. But that is sthe nature of picking and choosing, which they deny.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jerry Falwell has....
Pinky;615237 wrote: Put it this way, I don't mind what anyone else believes, if they have a faith that makes them happy and gives them hope, then that's a wonderful thing. What does get on my wick is when people try and shove it down my throat and tell me that if I don't follow Jesus / Allah / whatever then I'm wrong.
I don't make a point of going around christian-bashing, but I'm happy to defend my views when needed. I don't believe in the bible as the word of god or in Jesus as the son of god. I don't even believe in 'god' in the same way as you do. As far as I'm concerned, the bible is just another mythology; just as much as say, the Mabinogion. It was written by people and therefore does not stand as proof of the divine IMO. But that's just it...MY opinion.
Yours may well be different, which is fine, I respect that. But if you try and shove it down my neck it'll come straight back at you.
yeah, what she said:yh_clap
I don't make a point of going around christian-bashing, but I'm happy to defend my views when needed. I don't believe in the bible as the word of god or in Jesus as the son of god. I don't even believe in 'god' in the same way as you do. As far as I'm concerned, the bible is just another mythology; just as much as say, the Mabinogion. It was written by people and therefore does not stand as proof of the divine IMO. But that's just it...MY opinion.
Yours may well be different, which is fine, I respect that. But if you try and shove it down my neck it'll come straight back at you.
yeah, what she said:yh_clap
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Jerry Falwell has....
zinkyusa;615245 wrote: yeah, what she said:yh_clap
I'll second that.
I'll second that.
An ye harm none, do what ye will....
Jerry Falwell has....
Not safe for fundies (but funny)
AMERICAN televangelist Jerry Falwell has launched an outspoken attack on Heaven after arriving there this week describing God’s Kingdom as looking like a ‘puff’s paradise’.
The conservative US preacher, who died on Tuesday, has told friends he is disgusted by the camp décor of Heaven, which he said looked more like Liberace’s bedroom than the final resting place for Christian souls.
Is heaven too gay?
So alarmed is the Rev Falwell by the amount of white drapes, scatter cushions and gold leaf on display in Paradise that he has told friends he suspects God may be gay or, worse, an interior designer.
Jeremiah Johnson, a close confidant of the deceased preacher, said the Rev Falwell was “going apeshit†and had accused God of undoing all the good work he had performed on Earth.
He said: “The Reverend has devoted his life to fighting gayness in all its forms, particularly the importation of homosexual design flourishes into the normal family home.
“He had fully expected Heaven to be a model of the restrained heterosexual style he has championed instead of which it is decked out like some cross-dressing tart’s boudoir.â€
A spokesman for God dismissed the Reverend’s criticisms of the Holy Father’s taste in interiors and said Falwell should “lighten upâ€.
He said God was looking to create a soft and unstructured look suitable for souls to relax in for the long periods they would have to spend in Heaven.
“The last thing he wants is people stuck in rows of hard-backed pews with their arses going numb after half an hour,†he said.
AMERICAN televangelist Jerry Falwell has launched an outspoken attack on Heaven after arriving there this week describing God’s Kingdom as looking like a ‘puff’s paradise’.
The conservative US preacher, who died on Tuesday, has told friends he is disgusted by the camp décor of Heaven, which he said looked more like Liberace’s bedroom than the final resting place for Christian souls.
Is heaven too gay?
So alarmed is the Rev Falwell by the amount of white drapes, scatter cushions and gold leaf on display in Paradise that he has told friends he suspects God may be gay or, worse, an interior designer.
Jeremiah Johnson, a close confidant of the deceased preacher, said the Rev Falwell was “going apeshit†and had accused God of undoing all the good work he had performed on Earth.
He said: “The Reverend has devoted his life to fighting gayness in all its forms, particularly the importation of homosexual design flourishes into the normal family home.
“He had fully expected Heaven to be a model of the restrained heterosexual style he has championed instead of which it is decked out like some cross-dressing tart’s boudoir.â€
A spokesman for God dismissed the Reverend’s criticisms of the Holy Father’s taste in interiors and said Falwell should “lighten upâ€.
He said God was looking to create a soft and unstructured look suitable for souls to relax in for the long periods they would have to spend in Heaven.
“The last thing he wants is people stuck in rows of hard-backed pews with their arses going numb after half an hour,†he said.
An ye harm none, do what ye will....
Jerry Falwell has....
Chookie;615332 wrote: Not safe for fundies (but funny)
AMERICAN televangelist Jerry Falwell has launched an outspoken attack on Heaven after arriving there this week describing God’s Kingdom as looking like a ‘puff’s paradise’.
The conservative US preacher, who died on Tuesday, has told friends he is disgusted by the camp décor of Heaven, which he said looked more like Liberace’s bedroom than the final resting place for Christian souls.
Is heaven too gay?
So alarmed is the Rev Falwell by the amount of white drapes, scatter cushions and gold leaf on display in Paradise that he has told friends he suspects God may be gay or, worse, an interior designer.
Jeremiah Johnson, a close confidant of the deceased preacher, said the Rev Falwell was “going apeshit†and had accused God of undoing all the good work he had performed on Earth.
He said: “The Reverend has devoted his life to fighting gayness in all its forms, particularly the importation of homosexual design flourishes into the normal family home.
“He had fully expected Heaven to be a model of the restrained heterosexual style he has championed instead of which it is decked out like some cross-dressing tart’s boudoir.â€
A spokesman for God dismissed the Reverend’s criticisms of the Holy Father’s taste in interiors and said Falwell should “lighten upâ€.
He said God was looking to create a soft and unstructured look suitable for souls to relax in for the long periods they would have to spend in Heaven.
“The last thing he wants is people stuck in rows of hard-backed pews with their arses going numb after half an hour,†he said.
Oh man..:wah: :yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
AMERICAN televangelist Jerry Falwell has launched an outspoken attack on Heaven after arriving there this week describing God’s Kingdom as looking like a ‘puff’s paradise’.
The conservative US preacher, who died on Tuesday, has told friends he is disgusted by the camp décor of Heaven, which he said looked more like Liberace’s bedroom than the final resting place for Christian souls.
Is heaven too gay?
So alarmed is the Rev Falwell by the amount of white drapes, scatter cushions and gold leaf on display in Paradise that he has told friends he suspects God may be gay or, worse, an interior designer.
Jeremiah Johnson, a close confidant of the deceased preacher, said the Rev Falwell was “going apeshit†and had accused God of undoing all the good work he had performed on Earth.
He said: “The Reverend has devoted his life to fighting gayness in all its forms, particularly the importation of homosexual design flourishes into the normal family home.
“He had fully expected Heaven to be a model of the restrained heterosexual style he has championed instead of which it is decked out like some cross-dressing tart’s boudoir.â€
A spokesman for God dismissed the Reverend’s criticisms of the Holy Father’s taste in interiors and said Falwell should “lighten upâ€.
He said God was looking to create a soft and unstructured look suitable for souls to relax in for the long periods they would have to spend in Heaven.
“The last thing he wants is people stuck in rows of hard-backed pews with their arses going numb after half an hour,†he said.
Oh man..:wah: :yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Jerry Falwell has....
The author of Luke and Acts reports "Then Peter began to speak to them: 'I truly understand that God shows no partiality, but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.' " Acts 10:34
Fear here meaning "to have respect or to hold in awe." pg 99, "From Literal to Literary", James Adams.
There are of course many different names for God besides Yahweh: The Creator, Vishnu, Allah, Father, Mother, Friend, Brother etc.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Fear here meaning "to have respect or to hold in awe." pg 99, "From Literal to Literary", James Adams.
There are of course many different names for God besides Yahweh: The Creator, Vishnu, Allah, Father, Mother, Friend, Brother etc.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jerry Falwell has....
It is interesting that the name Elohim was in all likelihood the Canaanite name for their God. "The Great Transformation", Karen Armstrong.
The word Yahweh has been traced back to the name of an ancient Arabian storm God. "Hebrew Origins", James Meek.
It is also interesting that the ancient founders of Hinduism spoke of following "The Way" and so did the ancient Confucians. "The Great Transformation", Karen Armstrong. Both the Hindu forefathers and the ancient Confucians also claimed that the "Way" to God was to live with compassion and justice the same admonition we find in Micah 6:8. What did these ancients know that we seem to have forgotten? In actual fact the same two admonitions are the basis of all the world's great faiths not just Christianity.
I really do think that the Christians up there be prepared to find a whole host of others, besides Christians, as well.
Shalom
Ted:-6
The word Yahweh has been traced back to the name of an ancient Arabian storm God. "Hebrew Origins", James Meek.
It is also interesting that the ancient founders of Hinduism spoke of following "The Way" and so did the ancient Confucians. "The Great Transformation", Karen Armstrong. Both the Hindu forefathers and the ancient Confucians also claimed that the "Way" to God was to live with compassion and justice the same admonition we find in Micah 6:8. What did these ancients know that we seem to have forgotten? In actual fact the same two admonitions are the basis of all the world's great faiths not just Christianity.
I really do think that the Christians up there be prepared to find a whole host of others, besides Christians, as well.
Shalom
Ted:-6
-
Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Jerry Falwell has....
Say homosexuality is wrong and are a bigoted homophobe forcing your morality down everyone's throat. Condemn conservative christians in the a forceful and insulting way, and you are just expressing your opinion.
Jerry Falwell has....
Adam Zapple;615541 wrote: Say homosexuality is wrong and are a bigoted homophobe forcing your morality down everyone's throat. Condemn conservative christians in the a forceful and insulting way, and you are just expressing your opinion.
My problem with yours and FR's positition is your insistence on moralizing homosexuality base solely on what your Bible says. Why can't you just accept that some people are different and they don't have to be labeled as sinful, wrong or immoral. That's why your posts have drawn so much heat I think.
My problem with yours and FR's positition is your insistence on moralizing homosexuality base solely on what your Bible says. Why can't you just accept that some people are different and they don't have to be labeled as sinful, wrong or immoral. That's why your posts have drawn so much heat I think.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Jerry Falwell has....
zinky:-6
I think that is a correct observation. What adds to the positions erroneous nature is the present scientific studies related to the causes of homosexuality. It is now recognized as a given and not a choice. Thus it would appear that these people are being blamed for something over which they have no control. It's kind of like blaming someone for getting the flu.
Perhaps they should blame God for making them this way. Or is it perhaps, God is trying to demonstrate that the human race is full of differences and it is time we learned to accept these differences??? I'm really not sure that is the answer but they most certainly should not be blamed for what they were born with.
If one reads the Bible critically they will find they cannot support the anti-homosexual bias. It simply does not exist in the Bible in any decisive terms.
Shalom
Ted:-6
I think that is a correct observation. What adds to the positions erroneous nature is the present scientific studies related to the causes of homosexuality. It is now recognized as a given and not a choice. Thus it would appear that these people are being blamed for something over which they have no control. It's kind of like blaming someone for getting the flu.
Perhaps they should blame God for making them this way. Or is it perhaps, God is trying to demonstrate that the human race is full of differences and it is time we learned to accept these differences??? I'm really not sure that is the answer but they most certainly should not be blamed for what they were born with.
If one reads the Bible critically they will find they cannot support the anti-homosexual bias. It simply does not exist in the Bible in any decisive terms.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jerry Falwell has....
That anyone would willingly choose the abuse that homosexuals receive is pure nonsense.
http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html
Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homose ... alter-wink
Homosexuality and the Bible by Walter Wink
It definitely is not a choice.
The only sin in homosexuality is the abuse that so called Christians heap upon them.
Shalom
Ted:-6
http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html
Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homose ... alter-wink
Homosexuality and the Bible by Walter Wink
It definitely is not a choice.
The only sin in homosexuality is the abuse that so called Christians heap upon them.
Shalom
Ted:-6
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Richard Bell
- Posts: 1228
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:56 am
Jerry Falwell has....
spot;615195 wrote: Hey, be careful whose toes you're stepping on, "self appointed judge and jury when he would heap his scorn on those he deemed to have failed" fits me to perfection.
...but ol' Jer claimed he was speaking the word of God.
I assume that being the reasonable, non-deluded individual that you are, you claim your opinions and views are the word of Spot.
...but ol' Jer claimed he was speaking the word of God.
I assume that being the reasonable, non-deluded individual that you are, you claim your opinions and views are the word of Spot.
-
Richard Bell
- Posts: 1228
- Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2005 8:56 am
Jerry Falwell has....
Sweet Tooth;615185 wrote: God has promised us that the world will get so bad that countries will turn on each other and "natural disasters" will take place. This is all happening because the world is falling away from God.
Natural disasters have been occuring for millions of years. The biggest may well have been the asteroid impact that hit the Earth 75 million years ago.
Countries have been turning on each other for the last few thousand years.
It's "business as usual" on planet Earth.
It's not just the homosexuals he's targeting per say, its those who choose not to follow Christ./
He sure didn't mix his words on that point :
"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."
Jerry Falwell
Natural disasters have been occuring for millions of years. The biggest may well have been the asteroid impact that hit the Earth 75 million years ago.
Countries have been turning on each other for the last few thousand years.
It's "business as usual" on planet Earth.
It's not just the homosexuals he's targeting per say, its those who choose not to follow Christ./
He sure didn't mix his words on that point :
"If you're not a born-again Christian, you're a failure as a human being."
Jerry Falwell
Jerry Falwell has....
FarRider:-6
It would appear that you are still living in the ancient days. Perhaps you shouldn't drive a car like some of the Mennonites. A horse and buggy would be no good either since Adam had never heard of the wheel. BTW motorcycles are definitely out.
Actually it is rather simple. If homosexuality is an abomination as Leviticus says then I hope you do not eat shell fish or wear clothing where one piece is made of more than one fiber or the pieces separately are both made of the same fiber. And I also hope that you engage in the stoning of the recalcitrant children at the city gates. These are all requirements. Or do you pick and choose as I suspect?
In addition you have the privilege of going out and screwing around with any woman you like so long as she is unmarried and not a virgin. Let's not forget the Levirate law either. That is an absolute necessity.
Eating pork is out as well. That is definitely a no-no.
War crimes are in as well. Read Numbers 31.
I could go on but I think you get the message. Clearly you are picking and choosing what you want to believe or you will obey each of the above without fail and without hesitation.
No Paul did not understand. He lived in an age of a great lack of knowledge and he lived in a different culture and a different era. Apparently he forbade women to speak in church and demanded that they cover their heads as well.
Shalom
Ted:-6
It would appear that you are still living in the ancient days. Perhaps you shouldn't drive a car like some of the Mennonites. A horse and buggy would be no good either since Adam had never heard of the wheel. BTW motorcycles are definitely out.
Actually it is rather simple. If homosexuality is an abomination as Leviticus says then I hope you do not eat shell fish or wear clothing where one piece is made of more than one fiber or the pieces separately are both made of the same fiber. And I also hope that you engage in the stoning of the recalcitrant children at the city gates. These are all requirements. Or do you pick and choose as I suspect?
In addition you have the privilege of going out and screwing around with any woman you like so long as she is unmarried and not a virgin. Let's not forget the Levirate law either. That is an absolute necessity.
Eating pork is out as well. That is definitely a no-no.
War crimes are in as well. Read Numbers 31.
I could go on but I think you get the message. Clearly you are picking and choosing what you want to believe or you will obey each of the above without fail and without hesitation.
No Paul did not understand. He lived in an age of a great lack of knowledge and he lived in a different culture and a different era. Apparently he forbade women to speak in church and demanded that they cover their heads as well.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jerry Falwell has....
Far Rider;615673 wrote: Heat?
Oh man is that what this is?
Where do you draw thw line on lying? On assault? On offensive language? On cheating, stealing... is it ok to masturbate and think of your brothers wife undressing while you do so, so long as you dont act on it everythings ok?
Life is a series of decisions on what is and isnt right or acceptable based on that decision.
I use the Bible as my moral basis. You decide for yourself what you will use. If you use human understanding then you will change based on the situation your in and justify what you most desire to fit into your own psychy to make everything ok.
I accept that some folks are different but its thier choice, not that they were created that way.
Homosexuality is not like being white, or black, or tall or short or having orange hair or red or green eyes or blue, or being born on 3sep1962 at 4:57pm PDT... or being born to an english family verses a family in zimbabwe...
One grows up and chooses to engage in sexual activity with the same sex. How many times do you have to review this? If we were designed with homosexual tendencies then we'd have parts that allowed procreation with the same sex.
It's a no brainer.
Your entire post is subjective. You have decided what is right and wrong not only for yourself, but for others (who may not agree with what your book tells you). You are playing God. An action must be judged in it's entirety and full context, you must know every relavent fact about a person and their situation as far back in time as applicable to fairly judge anything. I submit you do not have all the information about any another person to judge anything about them or their actions as to being "right" or "wrong". Their have been entire societies who openly accepted and even encouraged homosexuality and you would dismiss them all as sinners. What a foolish, narrow minded, arrogant attitude this is. How do you know homosexuality is NOT genetic in some cases? An old book full of contradiction and historical inaccuracies tells God says it a sin and you simply accept it unchallenged. You and others of your ilk (like Falwell) are the ones who do the slandering, attacking, and character assasination of people who disagree with you. Doesn't your book say something about reaping what you sow?
Oh man is that what this is?
Where do you draw thw line on lying? On assault? On offensive language? On cheating, stealing... is it ok to masturbate and think of your brothers wife undressing while you do so, so long as you dont act on it everythings ok?
Life is a series of decisions on what is and isnt right or acceptable based on that decision.
I use the Bible as my moral basis. You decide for yourself what you will use. If you use human understanding then you will change based on the situation your in and justify what you most desire to fit into your own psychy to make everything ok.
I accept that some folks are different but its thier choice, not that they were created that way.
Homosexuality is not like being white, or black, or tall or short or having orange hair or red or green eyes or blue, or being born on 3sep1962 at 4:57pm PDT... or being born to an english family verses a family in zimbabwe...
One grows up and chooses to engage in sexual activity with the same sex. How many times do you have to review this? If we were designed with homosexual tendencies then we'd have parts that allowed procreation with the same sex.
It's a no brainer.
Your entire post is subjective. You have decided what is right and wrong not only for yourself, but for others (who may not agree with what your book tells you). You are playing God. An action must be judged in it's entirety and full context, you must know every relavent fact about a person and their situation as far back in time as applicable to fairly judge anything. I submit you do not have all the information about any another person to judge anything about them or their actions as to being "right" or "wrong". Their have been entire societies who openly accepted and even encouraged homosexuality and you would dismiss them all as sinners. What a foolish, narrow minded, arrogant attitude this is. How do you know homosexuality is NOT genetic in some cases? An old book full of contradiction and historical inaccuracies tells God says it a sin and you simply accept it unchallenged. You and others of your ilk (like Falwell) are the ones who do the slandering, attacking, and character assasination of people who disagree with you. Doesn't your book say something about reaping what you sow?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
-
Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Jerry Falwell has....
zinkyusa;615626 wrote: My problem with yours and FR's positition is your insistence on moralizing homosexuality base solely on what your Bible says. Why can't you just accept that some people are different and they don't have to be labeled as sinful, wrong or immoral. That's why your posts have drawn so much heat I think.
You have totally misrepresented my position. I make no "insistance" of any moral position. I make no suggest that everyone must agree with me. I make no assertion that homosexuals are immoral or horrible people. That is the central point I am trying to make- that opposition from someone on your side of the issue overreaches in condemning a simple opinion by myself or BR.
I believe homosexuality is a sin. So what? I believe lying is a sin, greed is a sin, malicious gossip is a sin, drinking to excess is a sin, covetenous is a sin, not feeding the hungry is a sin, not clothing the naked is a sin, ....... The list is long and I have unfortunately engaged in many sinful activities and attitudes. In no way, do I consider myself better than homosexuals. In no way do I think homosexuality is a one-way ticket to hell. Unrepented sin is what seperates us from God. Whether that sin is cheating or lying is irrelevant. That is my opinon. When you suggest that my opinion is morally indefensible, you are taking the same position as those who say homosexuality is morally indefensible.
You might be surprised to know that I oppose a Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriage. I oppose laws that criminalize homosexual behavior. I also oppose judicial fiat that forces gay marriage on us. It is an issue that should be decided by the states. If California wants to recognize gay marriage, then that is the democratic decision of the voters. But if my state declines to recognize gay marriage, that is our democratic right as well.
I'm rambling but the point is that I and BR simply state our opinion. Because you don't like our opinion, you imply that we are forcing our opinion on everyone and that simply isn't the case. Conservative Christians have the same right to express our opinions and beliefs and engage in the democratic process as anyone else. For you to suggest that we have no right to "force" our opinion, ie we should shut up and keep our opinions to ourselves, is an exercise in intolerance wouldn't you say?
You have totally misrepresented my position. I make no "insistance" of any moral position. I make no suggest that everyone must agree with me. I make no assertion that homosexuals are immoral or horrible people. That is the central point I am trying to make- that opposition from someone on your side of the issue overreaches in condemning a simple opinion by myself or BR.
I believe homosexuality is a sin. So what? I believe lying is a sin, greed is a sin, malicious gossip is a sin, drinking to excess is a sin, covetenous is a sin, not feeding the hungry is a sin, not clothing the naked is a sin, ....... The list is long and I have unfortunately engaged in many sinful activities and attitudes. In no way, do I consider myself better than homosexuals. In no way do I think homosexuality is a one-way ticket to hell. Unrepented sin is what seperates us from God. Whether that sin is cheating or lying is irrelevant. That is my opinon. When you suggest that my opinion is morally indefensible, you are taking the same position as those who say homosexuality is morally indefensible.
You might be surprised to know that I oppose a Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriage. I oppose laws that criminalize homosexual behavior. I also oppose judicial fiat that forces gay marriage on us. It is an issue that should be decided by the states. If California wants to recognize gay marriage, then that is the democratic decision of the voters. But if my state declines to recognize gay marriage, that is our democratic right as well.
I'm rambling but the point is that I and BR simply state our opinion. Because you don't like our opinion, you imply that we are forcing our opinion on everyone and that simply isn't the case. Conservative Christians have the same right to express our opinions and beliefs and engage in the democratic process as anyone else. For you to suggest that we have no right to "force" our opinion, ie we should shut up and keep our opinions to ourselves, is an exercise in intolerance wouldn't you say?
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Jerry Falwell has....
Ted;615682 wrote: That anyone would willingly choose the abuse that homosexuals receive is pure nonsense.
http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html
Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homose ... alter-wink
Homosexuality and the Bible by Walter Wink
It definitely is not a choice.
The only sin in homosexuality is the abuse that so called Christians heap upon them.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Do oppressed Christians all over the globe "choose" to be persecuted and slaughtered? Perhaps Christians are born that way. In today's society, it is Christians that are scorned and abused while homosexuality is celebrated and embraced. Do you see any sin in the hatred spewed toward conservative Christians? Or is that acceptable because you agree with the basic position. The ends justify the means so to speak.
http://www.apa.org/topics/orientation.html
Answers to Your Questions About Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality
http://www.soulforce.org/article/homose ... alter-wink
Homosexuality and the Bible by Walter Wink
It definitely is not a choice.
The only sin in homosexuality is the abuse that so called Christians heap upon them.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Do oppressed Christians all over the globe "choose" to be persecuted and slaughtered? Perhaps Christians are born that way. In today's society, it is Christians that are scorned and abused while homosexuality is celebrated and embraced. Do you see any sin in the hatred spewed toward conservative Christians? Or is that acceptable because you agree with the basic position. The ends justify the means so to speak.
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Jerry Falwell has....
Far Rider;615701 wrote: Ted, I will just try to hold my tongue *far takes his fingers and pins his tongue down* Can't do it... patuwee!
Man whats been on my hands that taste terrible!
That is some ones opinion, both links, men. I want proof that homosexuality is created (or and I shudder to type it, evolved) in men for me to go against all that the bible teaches... Give me an irrefutable scientific study to pick apart and delve into. You show me 'Gay' DNA and I'll seriously consider changing my stance.
Not the american psych association, heck they cant even decide if correcting your children is a good idea :-3
And certainly not from Mr. Wink. who touts the same stuff as the first stuff you linked...
'Paul didnt understand the modern sexual psychy of humans'... give me a break, do you think he lived in a bubble? Heck no the same sexual deviancy alive today was alive then. Its called sin.
oops forgot to add that, the 'christians' who as you say 'abuse' homosexuals are not christians, they are acting in their own behalf. Im certain God would not want us to stone one of them, or hurt one of them in anyway.
Even if homosexuality is genetic, so what? There have been studies that claim mass murderers have a genetic abnormality that causes their behavior. We still don't celebrate mass murder. Some people have a genetic predisposition to addictive behavior. We still don't celebrate alcoholism or reckless gambling or drug addiction. If a man has a genetic predisposition to sleep with as many women as possible, true as far back as the cavemen, are we to suggest that infidelity is no longer a sin? I could care less what two people do behind closed doors. I could care less who someone chooses to love (I have family members and co-workers that are gay). I think anyone who assualts homosexuals should be prosecuted. I think anyone who attacks homosexuals with verbal abuse is a jerk. But don't suggest that I have to accept homosexuality as morally equivalent to heterosexual marriage. For me to say I disagree with it is not verbal abuse, it is my opinion.
Man whats been on my hands that taste terrible!
That is some ones opinion, both links, men. I want proof that homosexuality is created (or and I shudder to type it, evolved) in men for me to go against all that the bible teaches... Give me an irrefutable scientific study to pick apart and delve into. You show me 'Gay' DNA and I'll seriously consider changing my stance.
Not the american psych association, heck they cant even decide if correcting your children is a good idea :-3
And certainly not from Mr. Wink. who touts the same stuff as the first stuff you linked...
'Paul didnt understand the modern sexual psychy of humans'... give me a break, do you think he lived in a bubble? Heck no the same sexual deviancy alive today was alive then. Its called sin.
oops forgot to add that, the 'christians' who as you say 'abuse' homosexuals are not christians, they are acting in their own behalf. Im certain God would not want us to stone one of them, or hurt one of them in anyway.
Even if homosexuality is genetic, so what? There have been studies that claim mass murderers have a genetic abnormality that causes their behavior. We still don't celebrate mass murder. Some people have a genetic predisposition to addictive behavior. We still don't celebrate alcoholism or reckless gambling or drug addiction. If a man has a genetic predisposition to sleep with as many women as possible, true as far back as the cavemen, are we to suggest that infidelity is no longer a sin? I could care less what two people do behind closed doors. I could care less who someone chooses to love (I have family members and co-workers that are gay). I think anyone who assualts homosexuals should be prosecuted. I think anyone who attacks homosexuals with verbal abuse is a jerk. But don't suggest that I have to accept homosexuality as morally equivalent to heterosexual marriage. For me to say I disagree with it is not verbal abuse, it is my opinion.
Jerry Falwell has....
Adam Zapple;616019 wrote: You have totally misrepresented my position. I make no "insistance" of any moral position. I make no suggest that everyone must agree with me. I make no assertion that homosexuals are immoral or horrible people. That is the central point I am trying to make- that opposition from someone on your side of the issue overreaches in condemning a simple opinion by myself or BR.
I believe homosexuality is a sin. So what? I believe lying is a sin, greed is a sin, malicious gossip is a sin, drinking to excess is a sin, covetenous is a sin, not feeding the hungry is a sin, not clothing the naked is a sin, ....... The list is long and I have unfortunately engaged in many sinful activities and attitudes. In no way, do I consider myself better than homosexuals. In no way do I think homosexuality is a one-way ticket to hell. Unrepented sin is what seperates us from God. Whether that sin is cheating or lying is irrelevant. That is my opinon. When you suggest that my opinion is morally indefensible, you are taking the same position as those who say homosexuality is morally indefensible.
You might be surprised to know that I oppose a Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriage. I oppose laws that criminalize homosexual behavior. I also oppose judicial fiat that forces gay marriage on us. It is an issue that should be decided by the states. If California wants to recognize gay marriage, then that is the democratic decision of the voters. But if my state declines to recognize gay marriage, that is our democratic right as well.
I'm rambling but the point is that I and BR simply state our opinion. Because you don't like our opinion, you imply that we are forcing our opinion on everyone and that simply isn't the case. Conservative Christians have the same right to express our opinions and beliefs and engage in the democratic process as anyone else. For you to suggest that we have no right to "force" our opinion, ie we should shut up and keep our opinions to ourselves, is an exercise in intolerance wouldn't you say?
I have no problem with you expressing your opinion. I am only saying if you are going to label people as sinners you should not be surprised at the reactions you receive. Btw, how can you say homosexuality is not immoral in one breadth and then say it is sinful in the next?
I believe homosexuality is a sin. So what? I believe lying is a sin, greed is a sin, malicious gossip is a sin, drinking to excess is a sin, covetenous is a sin, not feeding the hungry is a sin, not clothing the naked is a sin, ....... The list is long and I have unfortunately engaged in many sinful activities and attitudes. In no way, do I consider myself better than homosexuals. In no way do I think homosexuality is a one-way ticket to hell. Unrepented sin is what seperates us from God. Whether that sin is cheating or lying is irrelevant. That is my opinon. When you suggest that my opinion is morally indefensible, you are taking the same position as those who say homosexuality is morally indefensible.
You might be surprised to know that I oppose a Constitutional Amendment banning gay marriage. I oppose laws that criminalize homosexual behavior. I also oppose judicial fiat that forces gay marriage on us. It is an issue that should be decided by the states. If California wants to recognize gay marriage, then that is the democratic decision of the voters. But if my state declines to recognize gay marriage, that is our democratic right as well.
I'm rambling but the point is that I and BR simply state our opinion. Because you don't like our opinion, you imply that we are forcing our opinion on everyone and that simply isn't the case. Conservative Christians have the same right to express our opinions and beliefs and engage in the democratic process as anyone else. For you to suggest that we have no right to "force" our opinion, ie we should shut up and keep our opinions to ourselves, is an exercise in intolerance wouldn't you say?
I have no problem with you expressing your opinion. I am only saying if you are going to label people as sinners you should not be surprised at the reactions you receive. Btw, how can you say homosexuality is not immoral in one breadth and then say it is sinful in the next?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Jerry Falwell has....
zinkyusa;616054 wrote: I have no problem with you expressing your opinion. I am only saying if you are going to label people as sinners you should not be surprised at the reactions you receive. Btw, how can you say homosexuality is not immoral in one breadth and then say it is sinful in the next?
I label us all as sinners, self included. I thought I made it clear that I don't view homosexuality as worse than any other sin, homosexuals as any more sinful than myself. As for your last question, I am making a distinction between the sin and the sinner. Probably could have been expressed more clearly.
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
This includes me, you, Ted.........:-6
I label us all as sinners, self included. I thought I made it clear that I don't view homosexuality as worse than any other sin, homosexuals as any more sinful than myself. As for your last question, I am making a distinction between the sin and the sinner. Probably could have been expressed more clearly.
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
This includes me, you, Ted.........:-6
Jerry Falwell has....
Adam Zapple;616076 wrote: I label us all as sinners, self included. I thought I made it clear that I don't view homosexuality as worse than any other sin, homosexuals as any more sinful than myself. As for your last question, I am making a distinction between the sin and the sinner. Probably could have been expressed more clearly.
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
This includes me, you, Ted.........:-6
That may be fine for you Adam, but I do not desire to be included in your list of sinners. In fact I am offended by the presumptions of Christians who make that inclusion. I am not Christian, nor I am I a sinner, although I certainly have made a lot of mistakes in my life. A mistake is not a sin IMO. Why can't you just leave the rest of us out of your lists and labels, or at least keep them amongst those who agree with you?
Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God."
This includes me, you, Ted.........:-6
That may be fine for you Adam, but I do not desire to be included in your list of sinners. In fact I am offended by the presumptions of Christians who make that inclusion. I am not Christian, nor I am I a sinner, although I certainly have made a lot of mistakes in my life. A mistake is not a sin IMO. Why can't you just leave the rest of us out of your lists and labels, or at least keep them amongst those who agree with you?
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
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Adam Zapple
- Posts: 977
- Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 3:13 am
Jerry Falwell has....
zinkyusa;616082 wrote: That may be fine for you Adam, but I do not desire to be included in your list of sinners. In fact I am offended by the presumptions of Christians who make that inclusion. I am not Christian, nor I am I a sinner, although I certainly have made a lot of mistakes in my life. A mistake is not a sin IMO. Why can't you just leave the rest of us out of your lists and labels, or at least keep them amongst those who agree with you?
Sure thing, zinky.
Sure thing, zinky.
Jerry Falwell has....
Far Rider;616131 wrote: Good lord,
Lets look at this from aplain common sense approach here, lets remove the religious references, lets take God out of the argument for a moment.
You, look down between your legs, go ahead, we wont watch you look. If your a female, you have an innie, if your a male then you got an outie... Ya see that?
Them are tools.
Tools have a purpose.
Lets not be graphic I'll use an analogy.
A mechanic needs to remove a component, he has 6 bolts to remove, he walks over to his tool box and takes out a hammer and proceedes to hit the bolts repeatedly....
Now watching this one would wonder why he chose a hammer when he needed a wrench. And what did he do? He damaged the component and engine. He also damaged the hammer... The discernment or judgement is that he made a bad choice, he used the wrong tool. It lead to damage, and it brings question the mechanics knowledge and ability to do his job.
My point is if you look at the anatomy, and you look at the possibilities of disease, and damage to ones health and mental welfare, homosexual activity is counter prodcutive to life in general.
hmm, so is any kind of sexual activity other than intercourse by nature now a sin and wrong becuase it does lead to procreation?
As to how I know homosexuality isnt genetic? How do you know it is? The burden of proof is not on the norm of society, its on the abnormal end. You have to prove it. Where is the conclusive scientific evidence? Show me the GAY gene? Until you do your assumption has a small burden of proof, mine has the weight of 99% of society.
I doubt this figure, it will eventually be proven
I happen to believe the bible rather than man, thats my choice to. The proof in my life has been that as I have followed the bible I have been greatly blessed, spiritually mostly. If a man or woman follows the homosexual pathway they will end thier lives in distruction, prooven over and over again... Everyone that I have met that claims to be GAY, is not a happy person, they have an agenda, they constantly try to justify what they do, Guess what? Im not interested in helping them to justify their sin, I'm not going to do it. I wont participate in their deluded ideologies.
As for the 'entire societies that openly accepted homosexuality' name one that is still in existance? I dont think you can, because those societies that destroyed the core value of the family structure have self destructed.
Ancient Greece, was the mother of Western Civilization
I'll say it again so I dont keep getting bashed and maligned as 'narrowminded, arrogant, hater of gays'...
I don't hate any of the folks who claim to be GAY. I have not and I will not advocate they be killed, hurt, or injured in any way. I have not treated any of them in a way that has not been both legal, ethical, and moral according to the scripture and what I live by.
What I'm saying here and now is that I believe anyone who engages in homosexual acitvity is sinning according to scripture.
That's fine, go ahead and believe it and shut up about it, others are not interested in your moralizing, if you insist on it, don't be surprised at the reactions you get
And that by just common sense alone its an act that is contrary to the natural body parts that makes us up. And that engageing in that activity makes me question the natural common sense they have, and leads me to belive they are unstable in that decision making process.
If you dont agree, fine and well, and I bid you good day.
And on a side note, what makes you think I have accepted the bible unchallenged? Since I'm rather hard headed, not very intelligent and on occasion as stubborn as a stiffnecked mule God has had to prove most of what I have learned from scriptue over and over again, and I speak that to my shame, in honesty.
Thanks for the tool lecture, maybe I should get a subscription to Poular Mechanics.
Lets look at this from aplain common sense approach here, lets remove the religious references, lets take God out of the argument for a moment.
You, look down between your legs, go ahead, we wont watch you look. If your a female, you have an innie, if your a male then you got an outie... Ya see that?
Them are tools.
Tools have a purpose.
Lets not be graphic I'll use an analogy.
A mechanic needs to remove a component, he has 6 bolts to remove, he walks over to his tool box and takes out a hammer and proceedes to hit the bolts repeatedly....
Now watching this one would wonder why he chose a hammer when he needed a wrench. And what did he do? He damaged the component and engine. He also damaged the hammer... The discernment or judgement is that he made a bad choice, he used the wrong tool. It lead to damage, and it brings question the mechanics knowledge and ability to do his job.
My point is if you look at the anatomy, and you look at the possibilities of disease, and damage to ones health and mental welfare, homosexual activity is counter prodcutive to life in general.
hmm, so is any kind of sexual activity other than intercourse by nature now a sin and wrong becuase it does lead to procreation?
As to how I know homosexuality isnt genetic? How do you know it is? The burden of proof is not on the norm of society, its on the abnormal end. You have to prove it. Where is the conclusive scientific evidence? Show me the GAY gene? Until you do your assumption has a small burden of proof, mine has the weight of 99% of society.
I doubt this figure, it will eventually be proven
I happen to believe the bible rather than man, thats my choice to. The proof in my life has been that as I have followed the bible I have been greatly blessed, spiritually mostly. If a man or woman follows the homosexual pathway they will end thier lives in distruction, prooven over and over again... Everyone that I have met that claims to be GAY, is not a happy person, they have an agenda, they constantly try to justify what they do, Guess what? Im not interested in helping them to justify their sin, I'm not going to do it. I wont participate in their deluded ideologies.
As for the 'entire societies that openly accepted homosexuality' name one that is still in existance? I dont think you can, because those societies that destroyed the core value of the family structure have self destructed.
Ancient Greece, was the mother of Western Civilization
I'll say it again so I dont keep getting bashed and maligned as 'narrowminded, arrogant, hater of gays'...
I don't hate any of the folks who claim to be GAY. I have not and I will not advocate they be killed, hurt, or injured in any way. I have not treated any of them in a way that has not been both legal, ethical, and moral according to the scripture and what I live by.
What I'm saying here and now is that I believe anyone who engages in homosexual acitvity is sinning according to scripture.
That's fine, go ahead and believe it and shut up about it, others are not interested in your moralizing, if you insist on it, don't be surprised at the reactions you get
And that by just common sense alone its an act that is contrary to the natural body parts that makes us up. And that engageing in that activity makes me question the natural common sense they have, and leads me to belive they are unstable in that decision making process.
If you dont agree, fine and well, and I bid you good day.
And on a side note, what makes you think I have accepted the bible unchallenged? Since I'm rather hard headed, not very intelligent and on occasion as stubborn as a stiffnecked mule God has had to prove most of what I have learned from scriptue over and over again, and I speak that to my shame, in honesty.
Thanks for the tool lecture, maybe I should get a subscription to Poular Mechanics.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Jerry Falwell has....
Far Rider:-6
It is wrong, if for no other reason, it is a judgment and we have clearly been told not to judge.
As far as homosexuals being unhappy goes, of course they are look at the abuse they receive from a small minority of society who insist on shouting anti gay slogans and intruding into their way of life. All of these, brother, are sins and not the homosexuality that you speak of.
Shalom
Ted:-6
It is wrong, if for no other reason, it is a judgment and we have clearly been told not to judge.
As far as homosexuals being unhappy goes, of course they are look at the abuse they receive from a small minority of society who insist on shouting anti gay slogans and intruding into their way of life. All of these, brother, are sins and not the homosexuality that you speak of.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jerry Falwell has....
Adam:-6
What is your definition of sin? What is your understanding of sin?
Shalom
Ted:-6
What is your definition of sin? What is your understanding of sin?
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jerry Falwell has....
Adams Za[pple said:-
I believe homosexuality is a sin. It isn't it is a genetic condition.
I believe lying is a sin, True, but how do you define politics?
greed is a sin,Refer to previous question
malicious gossip is a sin, True
drinking to excess is a sin you did not define "drinking to excess" anyway alcoholism is a disease
covetenous is a sin, You mean it is not the American dream?
Unrepented sin is what seperates us from God. Unrepented sin???
For you to suggest that we have no right to "force" our opinion, ie we should shut up and keep our opinions to ourselves, is an exercise in intolerance wouldn't you say?
Most definitely not. I am not a Christian, I do not believe in any form of organised religion. I, unlike you, consider that my belief system is mine. This means that I do not proselytise, evangelise or browbeat.
My faith is mine, but if you are interested, I am a heathen.
I believe homosexuality is a sin. It isn't it is a genetic condition.
I believe lying is a sin, True, but how do you define politics?
greed is a sin,Refer to previous question
malicious gossip is a sin, True
drinking to excess is a sin you did not define "drinking to excess" anyway alcoholism is a disease
covetenous is a sin, You mean it is not the American dream?
Unrepented sin is what seperates us from God. Unrepented sin???
For you to suggest that we have no right to "force" our opinion, ie we should shut up and keep our opinions to ourselves, is an exercise in intolerance wouldn't you say?
Most definitely not. I am not a Christian, I do not believe in any form of organised religion. I, unlike you, consider that my belief system is mine. This means that I do not proselytise, evangelise or browbeat.
My faith is mine, but if you are interested, I am a heathen.
An ye harm none, do what ye will....
Jerry Falwell has....
Far Rider;616157 wrote: Youre very welcome.
I think tht sex inside marriage is fine, go for it. Personally I follow a strict enjoy it and dont prevent children and you will have as many as God allows.
The greek empire was overthrown, it is destroyed, culture of western civilization is dramatically different, socially and governamentally different. Try again.
What Id like is an answer to my earlier post here, care to try? Its in blue below form post number 64 same thread.
I tell ya what…
Why is it so bad to be told that homosexuality is wrong, ya probably ought not do that, or hey don’t drink to be drunk, don’t beat your wife, or your kids. How about love your wife, cherish your children, honor your parents, tell the truth. Be charitable, love your neighbor…
All we're doing is telling you, you don’t have to listen, you don’t have to consider, you don’t have to agree, there is no consequence to you directly for rejecting it. In fact I’m sure you can live your lives with much less indoctrination into the very things we are warning about than we have to listen to on a daily basis in the liberal world we live in.
If as you say there is no God then why does it matter what a few odd Christian fundamentalist say or do?
Christians are still in the minority, abortion is still legal, homosexuality (sodomy) is no longer a crime, the media is filled with movies and commercials that depict and glorify immorality of all kinds. Most public government schools are controlled by the elite liberal mindset if we send our children there they have to get special permission not to hear liberal views taught to them, all of the major preacher schools of old like Yale and Harvard are now in the hands of liberal atheist educators. Sin is flourishing throughout the world and the humanist manifesto is state of the art in all aspects of society.
I’d say you non christians have it made. So why is it so terrible that a minority stand up and speak their hearts and minds? It can't be that intimidating to you?
Wow, someone needs a serious history lesson. There was no Greek Empire. The Greek City states were conquered by Alexander and later Rome who absorbed and spread their culture all over the Western World. It became the basis for all of our civilization including the idea of democracy. Guess all those homo's got something right.
This country was founded on liberal ideas like freedom of the individual and a secular government so I have no problem with a liberal educators.
Your views are only intimdating when you try to force them on others.
Maybe you should look up what liberal means. It does mean anything extreme at all in spite of Fox News incorrect stereotyping. On the spectrum of politcal and philsophical thought I was taught it goes like this:
communism-socialism-liberal-conservative-authoritarian-totalitarain
I didn't say I didn't believe in God, I said I don't accept the Bible.
I think tht sex inside marriage is fine, go for it. Personally I follow a strict enjoy it and dont prevent children and you will have as many as God allows.
The greek empire was overthrown, it is destroyed, culture of western civilization is dramatically different, socially and governamentally different. Try again.
What Id like is an answer to my earlier post here, care to try? Its in blue below form post number 64 same thread.
I tell ya what…
Why is it so bad to be told that homosexuality is wrong, ya probably ought not do that, or hey don’t drink to be drunk, don’t beat your wife, or your kids. How about love your wife, cherish your children, honor your parents, tell the truth. Be charitable, love your neighbor…
All we're doing is telling you, you don’t have to listen, you don’t have to consider, you don’t have to agree, there is no consequence to you directly for rejecting it. In fact I’m sure you can live your lives with much less indoctrination into the very things we are warning about than we have to listen to on a daily basis in the liberal world we live in.
If as you say there is no God then why does it matter what a few odd Christian fundamentalist say or do?
Christians are still in the minority, abortion is still legal, homosexuality (sodomy) is no longer a crime, the media is filled with movies and commercials that depict and glorify immorality of all kinds. Most public government schools are controlled by the elite liberal mindset if we send our children there they have to get special permission not to hear liberal views taught to them, all of the major preacher schools of old like Yale and Harvard are now in the hands of liberal atheist educators. Sin is flourishing throughout the world and the humanist manifesto is state of the art in all aspects of society.
I’d say you non christians have it made. So why is it so terrible that a minority stand up and speak their hearts and minds? It can't be that intimidating to you?
Wow, someone needs a serious history lesson. There was no Greek Empire. The Greek City states were conquered by Alexander and later Rome who absorbed and spread their culture all over the Western World. It became the basis for all of our civilization including the idea of democracy. Guess all those homo's got something right.
This country was founded on liberal ideas like freedom of the individual and a secular government so I have no problem with a liberal educators.
Your views are only intimdating when you try to force them on others.
Maybe you should look up what liberal means. It does mean anything extreme at all in spite of Fox News incorrect stereotyping. On the spectrum of politcal and philsophical thought I was taught it goes like this:
communism-socialism-liberal-conservative-authoritarian-totalitarain
I didn't say I didn't believe in God, I said I don't accept the Bible.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.
Jerry Falwell has....
Chookie/Zinky:-6
Good posts. I'd like to see the answers.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Good posts. I'd like to see the answers.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jerry Falwell has....
With reference to homosexuality it might be a good idea to see what Paul has to say in 1 Cor. 10:23ff. It is too long to quote but it begins ' "All things are lawful," but not all things are beneficial . . . ' The whole section is important to the above mentioned issue.
Just out of curiosity I looked up fornication or "porneia" in "Strong's Complete Dictionary". Fornication can mean one of the following: sacred prostitution, illicit intercourse, adultery or idolatry. If we then go back in time we find that only a married woman or a virgin can commit adultery. The Jewish Encyclopedia is quite clear that for a married man to step out with a prostitute or an unmarried non-virgin was not considered adultery. If we put that with the fact that Leviticus appears to tell us that homosexual behaviour is a sin but the eating of shell fish is a sin and so is the wearing of clothing made of more than one fiber we find that to judge homosexual behaviour as sin is indeed, if not highly questionable, outright an error in judgement.
The sexual mores of the Bible are in fact if not unclear at best non-existent. Add to that the above 1 Cor. quote and we would indeed best leave any such judgment up to God alone as we have clearly been warned about.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Just out of curiosity I looked up fornication or "porneia" in "Strong's Complete Dictionary". Fornication can mean one of the following: sacred prostitution, illicit intercourse, adultery or idolatry. If we then go back in time we find that only a married woman or a virgin can commit adultery. The Jewish Encyclopedia is quite clear that for a married man to step out with a prostitute or an unmarried non-virgin was not considered adultery. If we put that with the fact that Leviticus appears to tell us that homosexual behaviour is a sin but the eating of shell fish is a sin and so is the wearing of clothing made of more than one fiber we find that to judge homosexual behaviour as sin is indeed, if not highly questionable, outright an error in judgement.
The sexual mores of the Bible are in fact if not unclear at best non-existent. Add to that the above 1 Cor. quote and we would indeed best leave any such judgment up to God alone as we have clearly been warned about.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Jerry Falwell has....
Far Rider;615673 wrote:
One grows up and chooses to engage in sexual activity with the same sex. How many times do you have to review this? If we were designed with homosexual tendencies then we'd have parts that allowed procreation with the same sex.
It's a no brainer.
I'm sorry Far but it's a no braner in that you're using no brains.
What you've just said ranks alongside "If God meant us to fly he'd have given us wings".
If you want to make a point about the basis of homosexuality then you'll need to give some base other than the Bible - otherwise it's your opinion rather than any form of fact to base an argument on.
There are many scientific studies out there shown a genetic pre-disposition towards homosexuality. That is not to say that no homosexuals chose the lifestyle or that everyone with that genetic makeup ends up as a homosexual but it does suggest that there are those for whom it is hardwired and who have little choice in the matter - many of these are practicing ministers on the Christian Church.
Unless you can show an equivalent scientific basis for your opinion then it remains a predudice. The fact that it is rooted in your faith is immaterial as not everyone shares that faith and in a secular society the rules should be based on rational argument and not on the belief of any one sector of that society.
One grows up and chooses to engage in sexual activity with the same sex. How many times do you have to review this? If we were designed with homosexual tendencies then we'd have parts that allowed procreation with the same sex.
It's a no brainer.
I'm sorry Far but it's a no braner in that you're using no brains.
What you've just said ranks alongside "If God meant us to fly he'd have given us wings".
If you want to make a point about the basis of homosexuality then you'll need to give some base other than the Bible - otherwise it's your opinion rather than any form of fact to base an argument on.
There are many scientific studies out there shown a genetic pre-disposition towards homosexuality. That is not to say that no homosexuals chose the lifestyle or that everyone with that genetic makeup ends up as a homosexual but it does suggest that there are those for whom it is hardwired and who have little choice in the matter - many of these are practicing ministers on the Christian Church.
Unless you can show an equivalent scientific basis for your opinion then it remains a predudice. The fact that it is rooted in your faith is immaterial as not everyone shares that faith and in a secular society the rules should be based on rational argument and not on the belief of any one sector of that society.
Jerry Falwell has....
Far Rider:-6
For any one of us, myself included to declare someone such as a homosexual, a sinner, is a judgment. The Bible is decidedly unclear about what it is saying about sexuality. The word "adultery" for instance meant something entirely different in Jesus day.
Which also brings me to the point that Jesus himself said absolutely nothing about homosexuality..
I have given you links to what experts think but because they do not agree with you they are simply wrong. The men and women of the Psych. Assn. are highly trained and very learned people. Walter Wink is a very well respected Bible scholar and theologian.
As far as homosexuality being abnormal, the fact is that it is not. It is also found in approximately 10% of the animal kingdom. That the majority do not follow a particular path makes it neither abnormal nor unnatural.
Times and understandings change. For example we now know that epilepsy has absolutely nothing to do with demon possession but is in fact a malfunctioning of some of the neurons of the brain. That changes our whole view. The sun does not stand still at any time. For that too happen the earth would have to stop rotating on its axis. We know there was no Exodus as recorded in the Torah for the simple reason there is not one shred of evidence that it did not happen that way. In fact most archaeologists now believe the story goes back to the expulsion of the Hyksos from the Nile delta.
"The Sodom and Gomorrah story, and the use made of it by other biblical authors, seem to indicate a sense in the dtradition that God opposes many forms of corrupt behavior, but there is little indication that homosexual relationships as such offend God. Perhaps English-speaking people would not have stayed with their notions about Sodom if it had not been for the mistranslation of the Hebrew word "qadhesh. The King James Version translates it sodomite, but the word had nothing to do with Sodom or with stable homosexual relationships. The word "
qadhesh, which literally means holy one,appears in both the masculine and feminine forms." pg239-240, "From Literal to Literary", J. Adams.
"Strong's Complete Dictionary of Bible Words" is in agreement.
It is clear that the original word was and still is mistranslated by less scholarly people. That makes a big difference in how one reads any passage using the word "qadhesh".
It is truly amazing how many folks mis-read things in the Bible because they have not done some research to find out what the original meant and thus they make the Bible say what it does not say and was never intended to say. One could blame the preachers who have not done reasonable and appropriate study but try to make the Bible say what they think it should say.
Shalom
Ted:-6
For any one of us, myself included to declare someone such as a homosexual, a sinner, is a judgment. The Bible is decidedly unclear about what it is saying about sexuality. The word "adultery" for instance meant something entirely different in Jesus day.
Which also brings me to the point that Jesus himself said absolutely nothing about homosexuality..
I have given you links to what experts think but because they do not agree with you they are simply wrong. The men and women of the Psych. Assn. are highly trained and very learned people. Walter Wink is a very well respected Bible scholar and theologian.
As far as homosexuality being abnormal, the fact is that it is not. It is also found in approximately 10% of the animal kingdom. That the majority do not follow a particular path makes it neither abnormal nor unnatural.
Times and understandings change. For example we now know that epilepsy has absolutely nothing to do with demon possession but is in fact a malfunctioning of some of the neurons of the brain. That changes our whole view. The sun does not stand still at any time. For that too happen the earth would have to stop rotating on its axis. We know there was no Exodus as recorded in the Torah for the simple reason there is not one shred of evidence that it did not happen that way. In fact most archaeologists now believe the story goes back to the expulsion of the Hyksos from the Nile delta.
"The Sodom and Gomorrah story, and the use made of it by other biblical authors, seem to indicate a sense in the dtradition that God opposes many forms of corrupt behavior, but there is little indication that homosexual relationships as such offend God. Perhaps English-speaking people would not have stayed with their notions about Sodom if it had not been for the mistranslation of the Hebrew word "qadhesh. The King James Version translates it sodomite, but the word had nothing to do with Sodom or with stable homosexual relationships. The word "
qadhesh, which literally means holy one,appears in both the masculine and feminine forms." pg239-240, "From Literal to Literary", J. Adams.
"Strong's Complete Dictionary of Bible Words" is in agreement.
It is clear that the original word was and still is mistranslated by less scholarly people. That makes a big difference in how one reads any passage using the word "qadhesh".
It is truly amazing how many folks mis-read things in the Bible because they have not done some research to find out what the original meant and thus they make the Bible say what it does not say and was never intended to say. One could blame the preachers who have not done reasonable and appropriate study but try to make the Bible say what they think it should say.
Shalom
Ted:-6