spot;540258 wrote: I'm sure quite a few people now regular on FG registered initially because there was a particular thread they'd read and wanted to contribute to, and stayed on subsequently because they enjoyed their time here. It describes my experience anyway. Hiya Argi's mates, read a few threads and chuck in a few observations.
heya spot :-4
Fed up with JW's
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Fed up with JW's
spot;540261 wrote: Jesus. BigDumbSwede Mark II, Acc? You can be really daft sometimes.
1. It doesn't make sense otherwise.
2. I'm not attacking or defending. I've stated my opinion & done.
1. It doesn't make sense otherwise.
2. I'm not attacking or defending. I've stated my opinion & done.
Fed up with JW's
Accountable;540266 wrote: 1. It doesn't make sense otherwise.
I know too little about JWs to have contributed meaningfully here, but I'm surprised we have active JW members. It may be sheer ignorance but I'd been given to understand that JWs were actively discouraged from socializing with non-members, and FG seems a fairly social setting.
I know too little about JWs to have contributed meaningfully here, but I'm surprised we have active JW members. It may be sheer ignorance but I'd been given to understand that JWs were actively discouraged from socializing with non-members, and FG seems a fairly social setting.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Fed up with JW's
spot;540271 wrote: I know too little about JWs to have contributed meaningfully here, but I'm surprised we have active JW members. It may be sheer ignorance but I'd been given to understand that JWs were actively discouraged from socializing with non-members, and FG seems a fairly social setting.
correct. any jw posting online is doing so at their own risk, so to speak. if anyone in the congregation found out that person would be 'marked' and the elders would keep a close eye on them. :p
correct. any jw posting online is doing so at their own risk, so to speak. if anyone in the congregation found out that person would be 'marked' and the elders would keep a close eye on them. :p
Fed up with JW's
ARgi;540277 wrote: correct. any jw posting online is doing so at their own risk, so to speak. if anyone in the congregation found out that person would be 'marked' and the elders would keep a close eye on them. :p
How sad.
How sad.
Fed up with JW's
ARgi;540277 wrote: correct. any jw posting online is doing so at their own risk, so to speak. if anyone in the congregation found out that person would be 'marked' and the elders would keep a close eye on them. :pFor what little it's worth, the only immediately relevant passage I could google is this - I assume it's not forged and it ties in with what I've heard from relatives of practicing JWs.One cannot walk with God while running in association with those of the wicked and sick society that approves of everything that God abhors.
The Bible warns: “Bad associations spoil useful habits.” (1 Cor. 15:33) Some in the congregation may be inclined to invite worldly acquaintances and unbelieving relatives who have no interest in the truth to social gatherings, thinking that this will encourage them to accept the truth. However, is this wise and in harmony with the Scriptures?
We have been counseled to be cautious in our dealings with men of the nations, unbelievers, and ordinary persons. Why should we have unnecessary social contact with people who still pursue worldly ways and who have not become worshipers of Jehovah? (2 Cor. 6:14, 15) Some who are negligent spiritually may seek out others who also hold on to worldly thinking and ways instead of seeking association with mature Christians who could help them become strong in the faith. They fail to appreciate that attendance at social gatherings with worldly, unprincipled people can weaken their faith and corrupt them. (Compare 2 Thessalonians 3:14, 15)
I do think there's a specific underclass in England which actively benefits from membership (small though that underclass is), but they seem pretty unwelcome as new members among the three major Christian flavours here (those being Traditionally Whiteish Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Recent Evangelical) if their faces and family histories don't fit. I'd be hard pressed to define it exactly but poor, needy and misfortunate come into it.
The Bible warns: “Bad associations spoil useful habits.” (1 Cor. 15:33) Some in the congregation may be inclined to invite worldly acquaintances and unbelieving relatives who have no interest in the truth to social gatherings, thinking that this will encourage them to accept the truth. However, is this wise and in harmony with the Scriptures?
We have been counseled to be cautious in our dealings with men of the nations, unbelievers, and ordinary persons. Why should we have unnecessary social contact with people who still pursue worldly ways and who have not become worshipers of Jehovah? (2 Cor. 6:14, 15) Some who are negligent spiritually may seek out others who also hold on to worldly thinking and ways instead of seeking association with mature Christians who could help them become strong in the faith. They fail to appreciate that attendance at social gatherings with worldly, unprincipled people can weaken their faith and corrupt them. (Compare 2 Thessalonians 3:14, 15)
I do think there's a specific underclass in England which actively benefits from membership (small though that underclass is), but they seem pretty unwelcome as new members among the three major Christian flavours here (those being Traditionally Whiteish Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Recent Evangelical) if their faces and family histories don't fit. I'd be hard pressed to define it exactly but poor, needy and misfortunate come into it.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Fed up with JW's
abbey;540279 wrote: How sad.
...i'm sorry if magenta thought anyone was attacking her here, but ...knowing the kind of life one must lead within the closely watched confines of the organization it breaks my heart and i hope it serves as a wake-up call.
once you start making friends on the outside then it occurs to you how ugly a god would be if he destroyed all these beautiful people in armageddon simply for not believing the same things? how can that be true, or good, or healthy to think? that's when your mind starts moving on it's own and you start fighting for your own basic freedoms, the one's you were born with and given by god if that is your belief. hopefully magenta is on that path of freedom of thought.
i know that we should have tolerance for all faiths...i know, but ...this one hurts people. it has killed people. that's where i draw the line., sod what anyone else thinks.
...i'm sorry if magenta thought anyone was attacking her here, but ...knowing the kind of life one must lead within the closely watched confines of the organization it breaks my heart and i hope it serves as a wake-up call.
once you start making friends on the outside then it occurs to you how ugly a god would be if he destroyed all these beautiful people in armageddon simply for not believing the same things? how can that be true, or good, or healthy to think? that's when your mind starts moving on it's own and you start fighting for your own basic freedoms, the one's you were born with and given by god if that is your belief. hopefully magenta is on that path of freedom of thought.
i know that we should have tolerance for all faiths...i know, but ...this one hurts people. it has killed people. that's where i draw the line., sod what anyone else thinks.
Fed up with JW's
spot;540283 wrote: For what little it's worth, the only immediately relevant passage I could google is this - I assume it's not forged and it ties in with what I've heard from relatives of practicing JWs.One cannot walk with God while running in association with those of the wicked and sick society that approves of everything that God abhors. The Bible warns: “Bad associations spoil useful habits.†(1 Cor. 15:33) Some in the congregation may be inclined to invite worldly acquaintances and unbelieving relatives who have no interest in the truth to social gatherings, thinking that this will encourage them to accept the truth. However, is this wise and in harmony with the Scriptures? We have been counseled to be cautious in our dealings with men of the nations, unbelievers, and ordinary persons. Why should we have unnecessary social contact with people who still pursue worldly ways and who have not become worshipers of Jehovah? (2 Cor. 6:14, 15) Some who are negligent spiritually may seek out others who also hold on to worldly thinking and ways instead of seeking association with mature Christians who could help them become strong in the faith. They fail to appreciate that attendance at social gatherings with worldly, unprincipled people can weaken their faith and corrupt them. (Compare 2 Thessalonians 3:14, 15)
I do think there's a specific underclass in England which actively benefits from membership (small though that underclass is), but they seem pretty unwelcome as new members among the three major Christian flavours here (those being Traditionally Whiteish Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Recent Evangelical) if their faces and family histories don't fit. I'd be hard pressed to define it exactly but poor, needy and misfortunate come into it.
good find, spot...spot on. that's not been twisted or edited...actually it's pretty mild in what is usually said about unbelievers.
I do think there's a specific underclass in England which actively benefits from membership (small though that underclass is), but they seem pretty unwelcome as new members among the three major Christian flavours here (those being Traditionally Whiteish Protestant, Roman Catholic, and Recent Evangelical) if their faces and family histories don't fit. I'd be hard pressed to define it exactly but poor, needy and misfortunate come into it.
good find, spot...spot on. that's not been twisted or edited...actually it's pretty mild in what is usually said about unbelievers.
Fed up with JW's
i thought it was just a joke type thread at first , but its turned into a jw bashing thread , i used to go to meetings and i hated it , not allowed to play football with the other kids etc pop music a big no no , if any other kids knocked for me on the way to school my gran used to say " they are dirty i dont want them round the house ,i was about as popular as a rattle snake in a lucky dip bag i can tell you ,my brother went on to become a proper jw , my mom said she did not want him to go any more and one of the elders said " god said you must put heaven before your worldly possessions (my mum in this case) so it split the whole family , if i was asked if it was a cult i'd say from my experience? yes , are you brainwashed and separated from the rest of society ?yes do i think jw's are horrible people? from my experience of them i would say no , the ones i know are the nicest most honest people i know , do i think the religion is a bad thing ? yes it is , its a brainwashing family splitting religion , that keeps the loner type kids in a place where they dont believe they can have friends , that much i know is true in my case only i know that to be true , i hope i dont upset any of my jw friends here on site i am only saying stuff that happened to me thats all :-3 :-3
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Ciao, Bella!
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Fed up with JW's
abbey;540279 wrote: How sad.
You're right, Abbey, it is sad. I never thought of it in that way.
You're right, Abbey, it is sad. I never thought of it in that way.
Fed up with JW's
Lulu2;540114 wrote: (Don't know who you are, Valkyrien, but this isn't a particularly good way to start!) My opinion, of course.
Magenta's been with us for awhile & we know who she is and what her values are. Jumping on someone, quoting past threads out of context sounds amazingly like a personal attack, doesn't it?
ANSWER: Yes, it does.
Thank goodness that was not what I did in my initial post!
An objective, factual recital of some of the precepts of the religion under observation in this topic and a subsequent query to the self-identified practiser of said religion as to their application in her self-declared habits, mores and opinions are neither "out of context" nor "a personal attack." Else, one should never be allowed to introduce previously-/elsewhere- stated relevant material to any current conversation. How bland! How shallow any such uni-dimensional discourse would be without the benefit of external knowledge; science, academics, even one-on-one relationships would never progress but would stagnate instead.
I learn from reading the insightful input of other posters, other writers -- building my knowledge via experiences and information which I may otherwise not have acquired. I hope that information that I bring to the table (after all, I did not express any personal opinion, witnessed to by the fact that some posters expressed ambivalence about which corner I stand in after reading my post) may hold similar value to other discerning readers.
By the way, how many 'stamps' must I acquire in my forum-posting-card before I am considered to be allowed to make something more than a go-along-to-get-along type of post?
Magenta's been with us for awhile & we know who she is and what her values are. Jumping on someone, quoting past threads out of context sounds amazingly like a personal attack, doesn't it?
ANSWER: Yes, it does.
Thank goodness that was not what I did in my initial post!
An objective, factual recital of some of the precepts of the religion under observation in this topic and a subsequent query to the self-identified practiser of said religion as to their application in her self-declared habits, mores and opinions are neither "out of context" nor "a personal attack." Else, one should never be allowed to introduce previously-/elsewhere- stated relevant material to any current conversation. How bland! How shallow any such uni-dimensional discourse would be without the benefit of external knowledge; science, academics, even one-on-one relationships would never progress but would stagnate instead.
I learn from reading the insightful input of other posters, other writers -- building my knowledge via experiences and information which I may otherwise not have acquired. I hope that information that I bring to the table (after all, I did not express any personal opinion, witnessed to by the fact that some posters expressed ambivalence about which corner I stand in after reading my post) may hold similar value to other discerning readers.
By the way, how many 'stamps' must I acquire in my forum-posting-card before I am considered to be allowed to make something more than a go-along-to-get-along type of post?
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Ciao, Bella!
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- Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:06 am
Fed up with JW's
jimbo;540292 wrote: i thought it was just a joke type thread at first , but its turned into a jw bashing thread , i used to go to meetings and i hated it , not allowed to play football with the other kids etc pop music a big no no , if any other kids knocked for me on the way to school my gran used to say " they are dirty i dont want them round the house ,i was about as popular as a rattle snake in a lucky dip bag i can tell you ,my brother went on to become a proper jw , my mom said she did not want him to go any more and one of the elders said " god said you must put heaven before your worldly possessions (my mum in this case) so it split the whole family , if i was asked if it was a cult i'd say from my experience? yes , are you brainwashed and separated from the rest of society ?yes do i think jw's are horrible people? from my experience of them i would say no , the ones i know are the nicest most honest people i know , do i think the religion is a bad thing ? yes it is , its a brainwashing family splitting religion , that keeps the loner type kids in a place where they dont believe they can have friends , that much i know is true in my case only i know that to be true , i hope i dont upset any of my jw friends here on site i am only saying stuff that happened to me thats all :-3 :-3
I didn't start this thread to bash JW's, merely to vent. If it were another faith hounding me, my reaction would be the same. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, I cannot control what others think and say here.
Jimbo, I'm sorry for the pain you went through. It saddens me to realize your brother had to choose between his faith and his family. I hope y'all can rebuild a relationship one day.
I didn't start this thread to bash JW's, merely to vent. If it were another faith hounding me, my reaction would be the same. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, I cannot control what others think and say here.
Jimbo, I'm sorry for the pain you went through. It saddens me to realize your brother had to choose between his faith and his family. I hope y'all can rebuild a relationship one day.
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Ciao, Bella!
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Fed up with JW's
Here's the thing. I converted to Lutheran about six years ago.
I was raised in a Southern Baptist household, after first attending church with my grandmother, a Primitive Baptist. My uncle and several cousins are still Primitive Baptists. My mother is still a Southern Baptist. I've an uncle who is Methodist. My great-aunt, my grandmother's sister, was a Methodist, despite having been raised in the same Primitive Baptist church as my grandmother, a church which my second great-grandfather helped found.
DH's grandmother was raised Catholic, and converted to Methodist. My mother-in-law is Southern Baptist.
All those denominations, within one family. And yet, we do not fight over religion. No one has had to choose family or faith.
I was raised in a Southern Baptist household, after first attending church with my grandmother, a Primitive Baptist. My uncle and several cousins are still Primitive Baptists. My mother is still a Southern Baptist. I've an uncle who is Methodist. My great-aunt, my grandmother's sister, was a Methodist, despite having been raised in the same Primitive Baptist church as my grandmother, a church which my second great-grandfather helped found.
DH's grandmother was raised Catholic, and converted to Methodist. My mother-in-law is Southern Baptist.
All those denominations, within one family. And yet, we do not fight over religion. No one has had to choose family or faith.
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Bill Sikes
- Posts: 5515
- Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:21 am
Fed up with JW's
Ciao, Bella!;539999 wrote: I have the freedom of religion. This means, I should not be subjected to harassment by anyone, from any other faith, up to, and including, the JWs.
I have the right to privacy. I pay my taxes, abide by the law, etc. I do not have to put up with forced intrusions into my quality time with my family.
Point 1. Yes.
Point 2. Yes.
For all people, IMO.
I have the right to privacy. I pay my taxes, abide by the law, etc. I do not have to put up with forced intrusions into my quality time with my family.
Point 1. Yes.
Point 2. Yes.
For all people, IMO.
Fed up with JW's
Getting back to the point.
I personally dont mind answering my door to JW's, if i'm busy i knock on the window & say i dont have time, they wave and go away, no problem.
I've met them in the park, they've give me a Watchtower and go on their way.
Mormon missionaries also come to my door (why do they always seem so handsome?) :-4
I explain i'm athiest and not open to conversion, once again not a problem.
I was always jealous of 2 brothers (jw's) who were excused afternoon assembly because we had to sing hymns , even though i did'nt believe in god i still had to sing.
I really wanted to be a JW then, and remember begging my mum to let me be one. :wah:
This being a relatively small (albeit growing) forum, we should all be aware of minding our P's & Q's.
We can't all be aware of everybody's faith or beliefs, and this thread was bound to turn into a JW bashing thread.
Hope no-one turns their back on me now they know i'm an athiest.
:-6
I personally dont mind answering my door to JW's, if i'm busy i knock on the window & say i dont have time, they wave and go away, no problem.
I've met them in the park, they've give me a Watchtower and go on their way.
Mormon missionaries also come to my door (why do they always seem so handsome?) :-4
I explain i'm athiest and not open to conversion, once again not a problem.
I was always jealous of 2 brothers (jw's) who were excused afternoon assembly because we had to sing hymns , even though i did'nt believe in god i still had to sing.
I really wanted to be a JW then, and remember begging my mum to let me be one. :wah:
This being a relatively small (albeit growing) forum, we should all be aware of minding our P's & Q's.
We can't all be aware of everybody's faith or beliefs, and this thread was bound to turn into a JW bashing thread.
Hope no-one turns their back on me now they know i'm an athiest.
:-6
Fed up with JW's
almostfamous;540269 wrote: Personally, I would have reported it. I'm sorry that you were put in that position. The audacity of that insinuation angers me, for you.
Thank you for your concern. I was not hurt by the post in question. That is my point. It takes very little time on a forum to realise that when you reveal something personal about yourself you should be prepared for anything. Especially on controversial topics such as this one. Magenta, when she was fairly new herself, went on another thread and told a long time member who had just ended an abusive relationship that she was an idiot for bringing it upon herself and blamed her for the entire bad experience. That she is now being questioned is basically just a roll of the dice.
Valkyrien;540326 wrote: ANSWER: Yes, it does.
Thank goodness that was not what I did in my initial post!
An objective, factual recital of some of the precepts of the religion under observation in this topic and a subsequent query to the self-identified practiser of said religion as to their application in her self-declared habits, mores and opinions are neither "out of context" nor "a personal attack." Else, one should never be allowed to introduce previously-/elsewhere- stated relevant material to any current conversation. How bland! How shallow any such uni-dimensional discourse would be without the benefit of external knowledge; science, academics, even one-on-one relationships would never progress but would stagnate instead.
I learn from reading the insightful input of other posters, other writers -- building my knowledge via experiences and information which I may otherwise not have acquired. I hope that information that I bring to the table (after all, I did not express any personal opinion, witnessed to by the fact that some posters expressed ambivalence about which corner I stand in after reading my post) may hold similar value to other discerning readers.
By the way, how many 'stamps' must I acquire in my forum-posting-card before I am considered to be allowed to make something more than a go-along-to-get-along type of post?
That is how I read your post and felt about the questioning of your right to speak your mind. This makes two of your posts I would now like to see an answer to.
Thank you for your concern. I was not hurt by the post in question. That is my point. It takes very little time on a forum to realise that when you reveal something personal about yourself you should be prepared for anything. Especially on controversial topics such as this one. Magenta, when she was fairly new herself, went on another thread and told a long time member who had just ended an abusive relationship that she was an idiot for bringing it upon herself and blamed her for the entire bad experience. That she is now being questioned is basically just a roll of the dice.
Valkyrien;540326 wrote: ANSWER: Yes, it does.
Thank goodness that was not what I did in my initial post!
An objective, factual recital of some of the precepts of the religion under observation in this topic and a subsequent query to the self-identified practiser of said religion as to their application in her self-declared habits, mores and opinions are neither "out of context" nor "a personal attack." Else, one should never be allowed to introduce previously-/elsewhere- stated relevant material to any current conversation. How bland! How shallow any such uni-dimensional discourse would be without the benefit of external knowledge; science, academics, even one-on-one relationships would never progress but would stagnate instead.
I learn from reading the insightful input of other posters, other writers -- building my knowledge via experiences and information which I may otherwise not have acquired. I hope that information that I bring to the table (after all, I did not express any personal opinion, witnessed to by the fact that some posters expressed ambivalence about which corner I stand in after reading my post) may hold similar value to other discerning readers.
By the way, how many 'stamps' must I acquire in my forum-posting-card before I am considered to be allowed to make something more than a go-along-to-get-along type of post?
That is how I read your post and felt about the questioning of your right to speak your mind. This makes two of your posts I would now like to see an answer to.
Fed up with JW's
Koan, for a moderator, you're very clear about condoning bad manners on the board.
Bad manners apply to new and seasoned posters and you know it.
I'm done with this thread, since I've made my points very clear, both on the bashing of Witnesses as a group and the obvious singling out of M'F.
Bad manners apply to new and seasoned posters and you know it.
I'm done with this thread, since I've made my points very clear, both on the bashing of Witnesses as a group and the obvious singling out of M'F.
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
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Ciao, Bella!
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Fed up with JW's
Abbey, I respect your right and decision of atheism, just as I respect Magenta Flame's right and decision of JW.
Once again, I will state that I did not start this thread to bash anyone. I most certainly did not single out anyone, especially Magenta Flame, as I had NO WAY OF KNOWING hers, or anyone else's, religion affilation.
As for the rest of the forum members:
I do not have a problem with her, any other JW's on this site. I have a problem with the local JW's, in my city, who simply refuse to take the hint to leave me alone. If you will read back through my posts, you will see this.
Yes, I believe they are a cult, just as I believe other groups are cults. I do not agree with their philosophy in faith, but I leave them be, as it is their right.
I ask only that the same courtesy be extended to me. Is that so difficult?
Once again, I will state that I did not start this thread to bash anyone. I most certainly did not single out anyone, especially Magenta Flame, as I had NO WAY OF KNOWING hers, or anyone else's, religion affilation.
As for the rest of the forum members:
I do not have a problem with her, any other JW's on this site. I have a problem with the local JW's, in my city, who simply refuse to take the hint to leave me alone. If you will read back through my posts, you will see this.
Yes, I believe they are a cult, just as I believe other groups are cults. I do not agree with their philosophy in faith, but I leave them be, as it is their right.
I ask only that the same courtesy be extended to me. Is that so difficult?
Fed up with JW's
Ciao, Bella!;540378 wrote: Abbey, I respect your right and decision of atheism, just as I respect Magenta Flame's right and decision of JW.
Once again, I will state that I did not start this thread to bash anyone. I most certainly did not single out anyone, especially Magenta Flame, as I had NO WAY OF KNOWING hers, or anyone else's, religion affilation.
I do not have a problem with her, any other JW's on this site. I have a problem with the local JW's, in my city, who simply refuse to take the hint to leave me alone. If you will read back through my posts, you will see this.
Yes, I believe they are a cult, just as I believe other groups are cults. I do not agree with their philosophy in faith, but I leave them be, as it is their right.
I ask only that the same courtesy be extended to me. Is that so difficult?
I'm not knocking you hon honestly. :-4
Once again, I will state that I did not start this thread to bash anyone. I most certainly did not single out anyone, especially Magenta Flame, as I had NO WAY OF KNOWING hers, or anyone else's, religion affilation.
I do not have a problem with her, any other JW's on this site. I have a problem with the local JW's, in my city, who simply refuse to take the hint to leave me alone. If you will read back through my posts, you will see this.
Yes, I believe they are a cult, just as I believe other groups are cults. I do not agree with their philosophy in faith, but I leave them be, as it is their right.
I ask only that the same courtesy be extended to me. Is that so difficult?
I'm not knocking you hon honestly. :-4
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Ciao, Bella!
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Fed up with JW's
Sorry, I didn't distinguish between the fact I was addressing everyone in general. (Trying to keep up with this forum, the Super Bowl, and a sports forum! Talk about multi-tasking!)
I'll go back and differeniate between the statements.
I'll go back and differeniate between the statements.
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RedGlitter
- Posts: 15777
- Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 3:51 am
Fed up with JW's
This has become a more interesting thread now that the arguing and complaining has calmed down. 
I certainly don't feel any different about you Abbey from what I did before. Why would I? You're tops with me. I really don't care what anyone goes for (or doesn't) with one exception: those religions that kill or harm animals in the name of sacrifice. Oh, that burns me up. I don't cotton to that and I make no apologies for it. But other than that, what one believes or if they choose to or not believe in something, I'm cool with that. It's such a private matter, how can you tag anyone for it?
Ciao Bella, I think we all get your point now. I don't think anybody's picking on you or anything.
I certainly don't feel any different about you Abbey from what I did before.
Why would I? You're tops with me. I really don't care what anyone goes for (or doesn't) with one exception: those religions that kill or harm animals in the name of sacrifice. Oh, that burns me up. I don't cotton to that and I make no apologies for it. But other than that, what one believes or if they choose to or not believe in something, I'm cool with that. It's such a private matter, how can you tag anyone for it? Ciao Bella, I think we all get your point now. I don't think anybody's picking on you or anything.
Fed up with JW's
Lulu2;540367 wrote: Koan, for a moderator, you're very clear about condoning bad manners on the board.
Bad manners apply to new and seasoned posters and you know it.
I'm done with this thread, since I've made my points very clear, both on the bashing of Witnesses as a group and the obvious singling out of M'F.
she singled herself out for whatever reason,
but i will concede that we have gotten beyond what this thread was intended for. my apologies ciao, if i added to that. it seems magenta has decided to leave off with this thread anyway. if she came back to answer any of the questions or responded to any of the negative views i would be extremely surprised. the points brought up are not debatable, ergo- silence on the pro-witness front.
it is a very sensitive subject especially due to the recent news story regarding the canadian sexuplets. strong feelings arise not because of some "crazy" teachings but when dogma starts costing lives. that is a price to high and demanding that sacrifice from it's members makes this religion lose any shine of benevolence. that's why it gets singled out from all the other religions with strange teachings, and why not?
why in god's name do we still have to have martyrs in our day? maybe this needs a thread of it's own.
Bad manners apply to new and seasoned posters and you know it.
I'm done with this thread, since I've made my points very clear, both on the bashing of Witnesses as a group and the obvious singling out of M'F.
she singled herself out for whatever reason,
but i will concede that we have gotten beyond what this thread was intended for. my apologies ciao, if i added to that.
it seems magenta has decided to leave off with this thread anyway. if she came back to answer any of the questions or responded to any of the negative views i would be extremely surprised. the points brought up are not debatable, ergo- silence on the pro-witness front.it is a very sensitive subject especially due to the recent news story regarding the canadian sexuplets. strong feelings arise not because of some "crazy" teachings but when dogma starts costing lives. that is a price to high and demanding that sacrifice from it's members makes this religion lose any shine of benevolence. that's why it gets singled out from all the other religions with strange teachings, and why not?
why in god's name do we still have to have martyrs in our day? maybe this needs a thread of it's own.
-
Ciao, Bella!
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:06 am
Fed up with JW's
RedGlitter;540392 wrote: This has become a more interesting thread now that the arguing and complaining has calmed down.
I certainly don't feel any different about you Abbey from what I did before. Why would I? You're tops with me. I really don't care what anyone goes for (or doesn't) with one exception: those religions that kill or harm animals in the name of sacrifice. Oh, that burns me up. I don't cotton to that and I make no apologies for it. But other than that, what one believes or if they choose to or not believe in something, I'm cool with that. It's such a private matter, how can you tag anyone for it?
Ciao Bella, I think we all get your point now. I don't think anybody's picking on you or anything.
Shoot, the only ones picking on me are the local yokels. I'm just asserting my beliefs.
But, you're correct in that the thread is more interesting without the arguing and such.
I certainly don't feel any different about you Abbey from what I did before.
Why would I? You're tops with me. I really don't care what anyone goes for (or doesn't) with one exception: those religions that kill or harm animals in the name of sacrifice. Oh, that burns me up. I don't cotton to that and I make no apologies for it. But other than that, what one believes or if they choose to or not believe in something, I'm cool with that. It's such a private matter, how can you tag anyone for it? Ciao Bella, I think we all get your point now. I don't think anybody's picking on you or anything.
Shoot, the only ones picking on me are the local yokels. I'm just asserting my beliefs.
But, you're correct in that the thread is more interesting without the arguing and such.
Fed up with JW's
Lulu2;540367 wrote: Koan, for a moderator, you're very clear about condoning bad manners on the board.
Bad manners apply to new and seasoned posters and you know it.
I'm done with this thread, since I've made my points very clear, both on the bashing of Witnesses as a group and the obvious singling out of M'F.
While respecting that you have left the thread and most likely won't respond, my current post is not intended to be responded to.
Having moderator "powers" is not for the purpose of controlling post content. There are a number of members here who may edit posts that bypass language filters and may delete spam. Neither I nor the other "moderators" who seem to be of some concern to certain members including yourself are actually what you make us out to be.
Manners are not part of the forum rules to the best of my knowledge. Bad manners are entirely subjective. Consistency is something I have always found at FG. Admin does not play favourites. Members play favourites. You are one who does this on a regular basis. Forgive me if I do not play the same games.
Bad manners are exhibited by new and seasoned posters and you know it.
It's part of what makes the place more like real life.
Bad manners apply to new and seasoned posters and you know it.
I'm done with this thread, since I've made my points very clear, both on the bashing of Witnesses as a group and the obvious singling out of M'F.
While respecting that you have left the thread and most likely won't respond, my current post is not intended to be responded to.
Having moderator "powers" is not for the purpose of controlling post content. There are a number of members here who may edit posts that bypass language filters and may delete spam. Neither I nor the other "moderators" who seem to be of some concern to certain members including yourself are actually what you make us out to be.
Manners are not part of the forum rules to the best of my knowledge. Bad manners are entirely subjective. Consistency is something I have always found at FG. Admin does not play favourites. Members play favourites. You are one who does this on a regular basis. Forgive me if I do not play the same games.
Bad manners are exhibited by new and seasoned posters and you know it.
It's part of what makes the place more like real life.
Fed up with JW's
Magenta flame;540461 wrote: OK my story, I was brought up strict Roman Catholic (very strict) I was baptized as an infant which from then on without my consent I was catagorised as one.
I was taught to genreflect, cross myself, use holy water before I entered any church. I knew the rosary backwards, and my little prayer book by heart. It was a condition of being a good wholesome Catholic.
I made my reconciliation in grade 2 (what an eight year old has done to confess is beyond me) Then in grade three I recieved communion, which in effect back in the seventies I was allegable as an alter girl (some kind of revival thing) SO I did that.
Went through the ceremony of helping the priest dress and Alter duties including holding the communion cup and plates and holding the staff. I was acceptable as an Alter girl because I'd been to church every sunday since I was born and I hadn't begun menstrating. Yes you heard me right
Every sunday I would give over a third of my pocket money when the plate went round. I would split this again into thirds 1 third to the parish, 1 third to the charity the church was working on and 1 third to the convent and prespetry. My father gave a portion of his wage. Our bugdeting system was also handled by the church. Dad would present his "little budget book" to those concerned to work out how much he owed the church that week. NO he wasn't paying back a loan these were his dues and contributions to the church.
These duties also meant travelling around with dad delivering two statues of the virgin Mary every friday night to households so people could kneel in front of it to say there holy marys and rosary. We too had to say our holy marys and rosary every friday night, and we never ate meat on fridays EVER.. And of course Church every sunday and everyday during Easter.
Now a little background My mother was not Catholic when she married dad she was Church of England. Because she fell pregnant to my father at sixteen and dad basically had to marry her, (common for the times) she became Catholic and signed a piece of paper to say that her children would be brought up Catholic.
this conbined with getting pregnant to the man who was the marked one for becoming the priest in the family she was going to hell anyway (according to her mother in law) And my grandmother made her suffer right under our noses my father even called her a heathen in front of us often. And we were taught very young where heathens were going ..straight to hell. So I was essentially brought up thinking that although my mother was loving towards us she was going to suffer in hell. I even had the audacity to tell friends of my sisters that they were going to hell too because they were non believers. My father was very proud of me . My youngest brother at the age of five decided he was going to be a pope and I decided at the age of 8 that I was going to be a NUN. I was very fortunate enough to be able to play within convent walls (where no other kids were allowed to play) when dad did the gardening at the convent . He also built the schools playground I guess that earn't him browny points as well.
Now moving along a bit (this is going to freak people out) I was a bit psychic when I was little. I would tell my mother who was at the door before they rang the bell, and my uncle knowiing the kinds of things I did used to get me to pick horses for him Mum told me to always give him the last horse to the finish and then he wouldn't bother my anymore. I got really upset one day and from the other side of the room I forced books out of the book shelf (but only the books owned by dad). My eldest sister and my mother were the wittnesses to that episode. I also threw a skirt across a room without touching it because my mother told me to wear it and I didn't want to. (I still remember that one because my mother screamed and began to cry.) We had a family gathering about fifty people at our house, and dad was in Warrigal helping my brother in law put up a shed. My sister was with us. But dad had cut his thumb off (to me it was his whole thumb but it was only a portion of it) so I told mum. My sister became hysterical and it took ages to calm her down . And that's the last time I ever told anyone anything about what I dream't about what I could see and do . fifty people wittnessed this event from me yelling at mum what had happened to dad to the following antics of my sister. Straight away mum got on the phone to my sisters house to be told he's not there they've had to take him to the hopital cause he's had an accident. Yep just as I said he'd cut his thumb off :wah:
Now you're all thinking what has this got to do with anything? Well my parents werent' idiots(?) during the course of my child hood they took me to the priest, the priest took me across to the convent where they questioned me for awhile they did some kind of test I can't remember what it was, but I do remember everyone went silent really silent . Well after all that apparently I have a gift. A gift from god! so why would god want me to suffer night horrors and all this stuff that freaked people out? There were many more instances but there is little space here
SO what is this Sect and cult you guys believe i've joined?
Oh and to clarify I have been studying and attending meetings and study meetings with the JW's for the last 11 years. I'm not baptised as yet because I choose not to be at this time and I have never felt forced or pressured to do so. I affiliate myself with them my children are brought up in the religion and I would support them in times and threads like these.
Baptism is a choice not an imposition to a person. (hence the smoking, I've never been brow beaten about it though)
Now as for family splits my father didn't talk to me for 6 months when I began studying . Is that the JW"S fault? I think not. It's his. Because it was the Jw's ? no just because it wasn't Catholic.
In my experience I've learnt' that you have not a 'group' as such but many personalities within a group. Love thy neighbour isn't as easy as it sounds. There are many kinds of personalities within my congregation and some of which would react just excactly as my father did. But there are others who are Long suffering with their children and put up with alot from them. It is not my place to speak of their difficulties but I do know personally of a couple of parents who...well I would've kicked the son out ages ago...but they are still soldiering on with him. I know of another couple who should never of had kids in the first place. So you see I'm speaking of Jw's but across society you will find the excat charateristics you accuse one certain group of.
Oh by the way those who are ex. Jw's care to share with everybody why you were disfellowshipped ?
anyway my fingers are tired.
very...very interesting story. lots of jw's are ex-catholics. the grass is always greener, eh? i agree that you can have extremists in any religion. a devout catholic is a force to be reckoned with. the powers you say you have would only be recognized as the work of demons...so why do you study with them? their world is black and white and something like that does not fit into their designs.
i hope you did not tell this because you think you owe anyone here an explanation. even if we asked for it you could tell us to f-off. i say that knowing what it's like to have personal matters picked apart on the forum...you offer yourself up on the chopping block quite literally.
i am extremely disappointed in your last comment...it reads as something spiteful (how did you mean it?) if it is implying what it sounds like then you are driving home one of the points i made about immoral conduct always being implied when someone is disfellowshipped to dehumanize the outcast and make sure no one listens to them.
it's interesting though that no one is made aware before they are baptised just what can you disfellowshipped...the list is rather lengthy and there are a few surprises along the way.
http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/disfellowship.htm
Ks91-E is the manual available only to elders and neither om or ks91-E appear on the Watchtower CD library;
Adultery (sexual intercourse with a person other than your marriage mate), includes;
abandoning wife and eloping with another woman - w79 11/15 31-2, w76 p.728
planned adultery to break Scriptural marriage ties - w83 3/15 p.29
remarriage without Scriptural permission - w56 10/1 p.597
polygamy - jv 176
dating a person not legally divorced - ks91-E p.135
Apostasy - w83 4/1 pp.22-4, km 8/80 pp.1, 4. includes;
rebellion against Jehovah’s organization - w63 7/1
promoting sects - it-2 886
Associating with disfellowshipped people including;
friends - ks91-E p.103, w81 9/15 pp.25-6, w55 10/1 p.607
family - ks91-E p.103
Blood and blood transfusions - w61 1/15 ks91-E p.95, jv p.183-4
Drug use - ks91-E p.96
Drunkenness - ks91-E p.95, it-1 656
Dishonest business practices - w63 7/1, w86 11/15 14
Employment violating Christian principles - km 9/76 p.6, km 2/74
working for any religious organization - ks91-E p.95
working in a gambling institution - ks91-E p.136
selling tobacco - ks91-E p.96
contract work at a military establishment
False worship. Includes;
attending another church ks91-E p.94
following mourning customs that involve false worship - w85 4/15 p.25
Fraud - ks91-E p.94, om pp.142-3
Gambling or related employment - w80 9/1, ks91-E p.136
Gluttony - w86 5/1
Greediness, this in used to include;
gambling ks91-E p.95
extortion ks91-E p.95, w89 1/15 22, it-1 p.789
greed in relation to bride-price: w98 9/15 p.25
Homosexuality - w83 6/1 pp.24-6
Idolatry - w52 3/1 p.138
Loose conduct - ks91-E pp.93, 96, w83 3/15 p.31, w73 9/15 p.574, it-2 p.264, ks91-E p.93, w83 3/15 p.31, w73 9/15 pp.574-6, w97 9/1 p.14, it-2 p.246. The principle of loose conduct is used to disfellowship for;
disregard for Jehovah's moral standards
disrespect, disregard or even contempt for standards, laws and authority, and as such is used to cover all manner of sins, such as refusal to cease fellowship with disfellowshipped people and showing disrespect to elders
Lying - ks91-E p.94, g00 2/8 p.21
Non neutral activities (involvement in politics and the military) - ks91-E p.96
Military service and non military service including working casual work (certain civilian work has recently been made a conscience matter w96 5/1 p.20) - ks91-E p.96
Obscene speech - ks91-E p.95
Parents condoning immorality - w56 p.566
Political involvement, including voting or holding a political card in Malawi - ks91-E p.96 John 6:15 Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone. (w99 11/1p.28 made this a conscience matter)
Porneia. “It includes oral and anal sex or mutual masturbation between persons not married to each other, homosexuality, lesbianism, fornication, adultery, incest, and bestiality.†- ks91-E p.93
Fornication it-1 863
bestiality - w83 6/1 p.25
incestuous marriage - w78 3/15 p.26
artificial insemination – g74 8/8 p.28
Reviling - ks91-E p.94, w96 7/15 pp.17-18; it-1 p.991; it-2 p.802
Sexual abuse of children - g93 10/8 p.10
Slander - ks91-E p.94, w63 7/1, w89 10/15 p.14, om p.142
Smoking or selling tobacco - km 2/74, ks91-E p.96
Spiritism (includes yoga w02 8/1 p.22) - w55 10/1 p.607
Stealing, thievery - om pp.142-5, ks91-E p.94
Subversive activity - w95 10/1 p.31
Uncleanness
sexually ‘perverse’ practices within marriage, such as oral and anal sex - w83 3/15 p.31
heavy petting and breast fondling - ks91-E p.92
touching of sexual parts - ks91-E p.91
Violation of secular law if flagrant attitude - w86 10/1 p.31
Violence, extreme physical abuse, fits of anger - ks91-E p.96, w75 p.287, g01 11/8 p.12
Includes Boxing w81 7/1 pp.30-1, ks91-E p.142
Wilful non support of family, endangerment of mate’s spirituality - w88 11/1 pp.22-3, km 9/73 p.8, ks91-E p.95
Worldly celebrations such as Christmas - ks91-E p.95 (It appears celebrating birthdays is not a reason to be disfellowshipped)
...this thread just keeps going and going. :wah:
oh, and while we're into this question asking thing...would you care to answer some of the ones on the pages <back there<<<< ? if you please.
I was taught to genreflect, cross myself, use holy water before I entered any church. I knew the rosary backwards, and my little prayer book by heart. It was a condition of being a good wholesome Catholic.
I made my reconciliation in grade 2 (what an eight year old has done to confess is beyond me) Then in grade three I recieved communion, which in effect back in the seventies I was allegable as an alter girl (some kind of revival thing) SO I did that.
Went through the ceremony of helping the priest dress and Alter duties including holding the communion cup and plates and holding the staff. I was acceptable as an Alter girl because I'd been to church every sunday since I was born and I hadn't begun menstrating. Yes you heard me right
Every sunday I would give over a third of my pocket money when the plate went round. I would split this again into thirds 1 third to the parish, 1 third to the charity the church was working on and 1 third to the convent and prespetry. My father gave a portion of his wage. Our bugdeting system was also handled by the church. Dad would present his "little budget book" to those concerned to work out how much he owed the church that week. NO he wasn't paying back a loan these were his dues and contributions to the church.
These duties also meant travelling around with dad delivering two statues of the virgin Mary every friday night to households so people could kneel in front of it to say there holy marys and rosary. We too had to say our holy marys and rosary every friday night, and we never ate meat on fridays EVER.. And of course Church every sunday and everyday during Easter.
Now a little background My mother was not Catholic when she married dad she was Church of England. Because she fell pregnant to my father at sixteen and dad basically had to marry her, (common for the times) she became Catholic and signed a piece of paper to say that her children would be brought up Catholic.
this conbined with getting pregnant to the man who was the marked one for becoming the priest in the family she was going to hell anyway (according to her mother in law) And my grandmother made her suffer right under our noses my father even called her a heathen in front of us often. And we were taught very young where heathens were going ..straight to hell. So I was essentially brought up thinking that although my mother was loving towards us she was going to suffer in hell. I even had the audacity to tell friends of my sisters that they were going to hell too because they were non believers. My father was very proud of me . My youngest brother at the age of five decided he was going to be a pope and I decided at the age of 8 that I was going to be a NUN. I was very fortunate enough to be able to play within convent walls (where no other kids were allowed to play) when dad did the gardening at the convent . He also built the schools playground I guess that earn't him browny points as well.
Now moving along a bit (this is going to freak people out) I was a bit psychic when I was little. I would tell my mother who was at the door before they rang the bell, and my uncle knowiing the kinds of things I did used to get me to pick horses for him Mum told me to always give him the last horse to the finish and then he wouldn't bother my anymore. I got really upset one day and from the other side of the room I forced books out of the book shelf (but only the books owned by dad). My eldest sister and my mother were the wittnesses to that episode. I also threw a skirt across a room without touching it because my mother told me to wear it and I didn't want to. (I still remember that one because my mother screamed and began to cry.) We had a family gathering about fifty people at our house, and dad was in Warrigal helping my brother in law put up a shed. My sister was with us. But dad had cut his thumb off (to me it was his whole thumb but it was only a portion of it) so I told mum. My sister became hysterical and it took ages to calm her down . And that's the last time I ever told anyone anything about what I dream't about what I could see and do . fifty people wittnessed this event from me yelling at mum what had happened to dad to the following antics of my sister. Straight away mum got on the phone to my sisters house to be told he's not there they've had to take him to the hopital cause he's had an accident. Yep just as I said he'd cut his thumb off :wah:
Now you're all thinking what has this got to do with anything? Well my parents werent' idiots(?) during the course of my child hood they took me to the priest, the priest took me across to the convent where they questioned me for awhile they did some kind of test I can't remember what it was, but I do remember everyone went silent really silent . Well after all that apparently I have a gift. A gift from god! so why would god want me to suffer night horrors and all this stuff that freaked people out? There were many more instances but there is little space here
SO what is this Sect and cult you guys believe i've joined?
Oh and to clarify I have been studying and attending meetings and study meetings with the JW's for the last 11 years. I'm not baptised as yet because I choose not to be at this time and I have never felt forced or pressured to do so. I affiliate myself with them my children are brought up in the religion and I would support them in times and threads like these.
Baptism is a choice not an imposition to a person. (hence the smoking, I've never been brow beaten about it though)
Now as for family splits my father didn't talk to me for 6 months when I began studying . Is that the JW"S fault? I think not. It's his. Because it was the Jw's ? no just because it wasn't Catholic.
In my experience I've learnt' that you have not a 'group' as such but many personalities within a group. Love thy neighbour isn't as easy as it sounds. There are many kinds of personalities within my congregation and some of which would react just excactly as my father did. But there are others who are Long suffering with their children and put up with alot from them. It is not my place to speak of their difficulties but I do know personally of a couple of parents who...well I would've kicked the son out ages ago...but they are still soldiering on with him. I know of another couple who should never of had kids in the first place. So you see I'm speaking of Jw's but across society you will find the excat charateristics you accuse one certain group of.
Oh by the way those who are ex. Jw's care to share with everybody why you were disfellowshipped ?
anyway my fingers are tired.
very...very interesting story. lots of jw's are ex-catholics. the grass is always greener, eh? i agree that you can have extremists in any religion. a devout catholic is a force to be reckoned with. the powers you say you have would only be recognized as the work of demons...so why do you study with them? their world is black and white and something like that does not fit into their designs.
i hope you did not tell this because you think you owe anyone here an explanation. even if we asked for it you could tell us to f-off. i say that knowing what it's like to have personal matters picked apart on the forum...you offer yourself up on the chopping block quite literally.
i am extremely disappointed in your last comment...it reads as something spiteful (how did you mean it?) if it is implying what it sounds like then you are driving home one of the points i made about immoral conduct always being implied when someone is disfellowshipped to dehumanize the outcast and make sure no one listens to them.
it's interesting though that no one is made aware before they are baptised just what can you disfellowshipped...the list is rather lengthy and there are a few surprises along the way.
http://www.jwfacts.com/index_files/disfellowship.htm
Ks91-E is the manual available only to elders and neither om or ks91-E appear on the Watchtower CD library;
Adultery (sexual intercourse with a person other than your marriage mate), includes;
abandoning wife and eloping with another woman - w79 11/15 31-2, w76 p.728
planned adultery to break Scriptural marriage ties - w83 3/15 p.29
remarriage without Scriptural permission - w56 10/1 p.597
polygamy - jv 176
dating a person not legally divorced - ks91-E p.135
Apostasy - w83 4/1 pp.22-4, km 8/80 pp.1, 4. includes;
rebellion against Jehovah’s organization - w63 7/1
promoting sects - it-2 886
Associating with disfellowshipped people including;
friends - ks91-E p.103, w81 9/15 pp.25-6, w55 10/1 p.607
family - ks91-E p.103
Blood and blood transfusions - w61 1/15 ks91-E p.95, jv p.183-4
Drug use - ks91-E p.96
Drunkenness - ks91-E p.95, it-1 656
Dishonest business practices - w63 7/1, w86 11/15 14
Employment violating Christian principles - km 9/76 p.6, km 2/74
working for any religious organization - ks91-E p.95
working in a gambling institution - ks91-E p.136
selling tobacco - ks91-E p.96
contract work at a military establishment
False worship. Includes;
attending another church ks91-E p.94
following mourning customs that involve false worship - w85 4/15 p.25
Fraud - ks91-E p.94, om pp.142-3
Gambling or related employment - w80 9/1, ks91-E p.136
Gluttony - w86 5/1
Greediness, this in used to include;
gambling ks91-E p.95
extortion ks91-E p.95, w89 1/15 22, it-1 p.789
greed in relation to bride-price: w98 9/15 p.25
Homosexuality - w83 6/1 pp.24-6
Idolatry - w52 3/1 p.138
Loose conduct - ks91-E pp.93, 96, w83 3/15 p.31, w73 9/15 p.574, it-2 p.264, ks91-E p.93, w83 3/15 p.31, w73 9/15 pp.574-6, w97 9/1 p.14, it-2 p.246. The principle of loose conduct is used to disfellowship for;
disregard for Jehovah's moral standards
disrespect, disregard or even contempt for standards, laws and authority, and as such is used to cover all manner of sins, such as refusal to cease fellowship with disfellowshipped people and showing disrespect to elders
Lying - ks91-E p.94, g00 2/8 p.21
Non neutral activities (involvement in politics and the military) - ks91-E p.96
Military service and non military service including working casual work (certain civilian work has recently been made a conscience matter w96 5/1 p.20) - ks91-E p.96
Obscene speech - ks91-E p.95
Parents condoning immorality - w56 p.566
Political involvement, including voting or holding a political card in Malawi - ks91-E p.96 John 6:15 Therefore Jesus, knowing they were about to come and seize him to make him king, withdrew again into the mountain all alone. (w99 11/1p.28 made this a conscience matter)
Porneia. “It includes oral and anal sex or mutual masturbation between persons not married to each other, homosexuality, lesbianism, fornication, adultery, incest, and bestiality.†- ks91-E p.93
Fornication it-1 863
bestiality - w83 6/1 p.25
incestuous marriage - w78 3/15 p.26
artificial insemination – g74 8/8 p.28
Reviling - ks91-E p.94, w96 7/15 pp.17-18; it-1 p.991; it-2 p.802
Sexual abuse of children - g93 10/8 p.10
Slander - ks91-E p.94, w63 7/1, w89 10/15 p.14, om p.142
Smoking or selling tobacco - km 2/74, ks91-E p.96
Spiritism (includes yoga w02 8/1 p.22) - w55 10/1 p.607
Stealing, thievery - om pp.142-5, ks91-E p.94
Subversive activity - w95 10/1 p.31
Uncleanness
sexually ‘perverse’ practices within marriage, such as oral and anal sex - w83 3/15 p.31
heavy petting and breast fondling - ks91-E p.92
touching of sexual parts - ks91-E p.91
Violation of secular law if flagrant attitude - w86 10/1 p.31
Violence, extreme physical abuse, fits of anger - ks91-E p.96, w75 p.287, g01 11/8 p.12
Includes Boxing w81 7/1 pp.30-1, ks91-E p.142
Wilful non support of family, endangerment of mate’s spirituality - w88 11/1 pp.22-3, km 9/73 p.8, ks91-E p.95
Worldly celebrations such as Christmas - ks91-E p.95 (It appears celebrating birthdays is not a reason to be disfellowshipped)
...this thread just keeps going and going. :wah:
oh, and while we're into this question asking thing...would you care to answer some of the ones on the pages <back there<<<< ? if you please.
Fed up with JW's
mrsK;540484 wrote: I have sat for a day & waited before I replied.
My parents were both Church of England & my Mum changed to Jehovah Wittness ,when we were kids.
I was bought up in that religion,I was allowed to play with other kids no matter what their religion.
I was allowed a further education,I played sport,I was allowed to do lots of things other kids were doing.Within reason.
I also am not baptized,I don't go to the meetings,I do read the litereature.
Teachers use some of the topics out of those magazines to teach topics in classes ,they are by no means wittness's.
My brothers & sisters still are practising wittnesses & guess what I am allowed to associate with them,we have family reunions,we even visit each other for our holidays.Just because I have never been baptized, that definately does not stop me seeing my family .Never ,ever.
We even have parties & drink,not to excess but we drink.Well I might drink to access on the odd occasion
I wish I had listened to the not smoking warning & then I wouldn't be paying for it now.
I cannot answer all your questions you have asked but I will say that I would like to thank you for this discussion on here as it has really broadened my thinking about exceptence of how others feel & think.
This is the last time I will post in here as I can't see me helping out with any more information than what I have already given.
As far as stopping them from calling as I said before just write a letter & asked to be taken off their calling list.
i too enjoy a pretty normal relationship with my jw relatives *because* i was never baptised. thank god for that... if you are not baptised you can't be disfellowshipped...if you're not disfellowshipped you don't have to be shunned :p it's a loop-hole.
i'm extremely aware of how much i'm posting in this thread ! :wah: it's probably annoying to see another post by me...it really is a good debate topic. i can't stay away from those for the life of me.
a lot of jw's can seem relatively normal and will visit family on holidays. i remember hearing stories about the one's that did though. raised eyebrows, i tell ya :p ..the one's that don't try to stick to conduct code so closely can always fool you until they let you know about that part of their life.
what i noticed is that i can never mention any holiday parties i went to or i get the dirtiest looks from them
lol that part i find very frustrating. it's so much easier to start up chatting about those kinds of things, like what you're doing for easter, christmas, halloween and whose birthday you went to. it's part of our culture.
if only they didn't believe i was going to die things would be cool
it's good to know your story has turned out happier than most
My parents were both Church of England & my Mum changed to Jehovah Wittness ,when we were kids.
I was bought up in that religion,I was allowed to play with other kids no matter what their religion.
I was allowed a further education,I played sport,I was allowed to do lots of things other kids were doing.Within reason.
I also am not baptized,I don't go to the meetings,I do read the litereature.
Teachers use some of the topics out of those magazines to teach topics in classes ,they are by no means wittness's.
My brothers & sisters still are practising wittnesses & guess what I am allowed to associate with them,we have family reunions,we even visit each other for our holidays.Just because I have never been baptized, that definately does not stop me seeing my family .Never ,ever.
We even have parties & drink,not to excess but we drink.Well I might drink to access on the odd occasion
I wish I had listened to the not smoking warning & then I wouldn't be paying for it now.
I cannot answer all your questions you have asked but I will say that I would like to thank you for this discussion on here as it has really broadened my thinking about exceptence of how others feel & think.
This is the last time I will post in here as I can't see me helping out with any more information than what I have already given.
As far as stopping them from calling as I said before just write a letter & asked to be taken off their calling list.
i too enjoy a pretty normal relationship with my jw relatives *because* i was never baptised. thank god for that... if you are not baptised you can't be disfellowshipped...if you're not disfellowshipped you don't have to be shunned :p it's a loop-hole.
i'm extremely aware of how much i'm posting in this thread ! :wah: it's probably annoying to see another post by me...it really is a good debate topic. i can't stay away from those for the life of me.
a lot of jw's can seem relatively normal and will visit family on holidays. i remember hearing stories about the one's that did though. raised eyebrows, i tell ya :p ..the one's that don't try to stick to conduct code so closely can always fool you until they let you know about that part of their life.
what i noticed is that i can never mention any holiday parties i went to or i get the dirtiest looks from them
lol that part i find very frustrating. it's so much easier to start up chatting about those kinds of things, like what you're doing for easter, christmas, halloween and whose birthday you went to. it's part of our culture.if only they didn't believe i was going to die things would be cool
it's good to know your story has turned out happier than most
Fed up with JW's
Ciao, Bella!;540330 wrote: I didn't start this thread to bash JW's, merely to vent. If it were another faith hounding me, my reaction would be the same. I've said this before, and I'll say it again, I cannot control what others think and say here.
Jimbo, I'm sorry for the pain you went through. It saddens me to realize your brother had to choose between his faith and his family. I hope y'all can rebuild a relationship one day.
i'm nearly forty seven all this was over 33 years ago , any pain i felt then is more than paid back by the amusement i get from the whole thing looking back , nerdy clothes no music , no football, no girlfriends actually to be honest that was not coz of the jw's it was coz i was a freaky skinny spotty kid with zero confidence and if a girl even looked at me i'd turn beetroot red , just like now really:wah: my brother made it up with my mum but i never did ,my brother and i are a million miles apart different ends of the spectrum in every way we dont talk not as i dislike him when my grandad the jw one died he never even told me when the funeral was, kind of stung a bit that , the great Satan jimbo not wanted at his own grandfathers funeral but there you have it , jw 's at their worst family splitting , i'm still in touch with many of the jw's from 30 odd years ago so they must be nice people on the whole so go figure :-3 :-3
Jimbo, I'm sorry for the pain you went through. It saddens me to realize your brother had to choose between his faith and his family. I hope y'all can rebuild a relationship one day.
i'm nearly forty seven all this was over 33 years ago , any pain i felt then is more than paid back by the amusement i get from the whole thing looking back , nerdy clothes no music , no football, no girlfriends actually to be honest that was not coz of the jw's it was coz i was a freaky skinny spotty kid with zero confidence and if a girl even looked at me i'd turn beetroot red , just like now really:wah: my brother made it up with my mum but i never did ,my brother and i are a million miles apart different ends of the spectrum in every way we dont talk not as i dislike him when my grandad the jw one died he never even told me when the funeral was, kind of stung a bit that , the great Satan jimbo not wanted at his own grandfathers funeral but there you have it , jw 's at their worst family splitting , i'm still in touch with many of the jw's from 30 odd years ago so they must be nice people on the whole so go figure :-3 :-3
Fed up with JW's
Ciao, Bella!;539999 wrote: Iwokeup, your first post gave me chills.
I am going to stand up for my rights.
I have the freedom of religion. This means, I should not be subjected to harassment by anyone, from any other faith, up to, and including, the JWs.
I have the right to choose. I can be friends with whomever I want, I can read what I want, I can view any movie or tv program I choose. For the record, I've friends who are gay, Canadian, British, Japanese, black, white, Hispanic, young, old, skinny, not-so skinny, crippled, healthy, Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, alone in the world, part of a huge family, divorced, living in sin, hard workers, educated, blue collar worker, frequent travelers, single, somewhat reclusive, near genius, dealing with a learning disability, rich, poor, grandparents, great-grandparents, volunteers, and more!
Now, who, in this group, should I drop as a friend? Why?
I enjoy each of our friends. We each give and take, equally, from our relationship with one another. If I were to join the JW's, I'd have to shun them, wouldn't I?
Doesn't make sense to me.
Yes, you would have to limit your association to only those who are approved of by "Jehovah" (actually, the Watchtower Society's Governing Body who is called the "Faithful Discreet Slave").
The only difference between the followers of the Watchtower Society and cults such as the one founded by Jim Jones (remember Jonestown, Guyana?) is that the JW's haven't been drinking literal KOOL-AID that is purple and poison. The KOOL-AID they drink is spiritual poison which will have an impact on them forever.
I am going to stand up for my rights.
I have the freedom of religion. This means, I should not be subjected to harassment by anyone, from any other faith, up to, and including, the JWs.
I have the right to choose. I can be friends with whomever I want, I can read what I want, I can view any movie or tv program I choose. For the record, I've friends who are gay, Canadian, British, Japanese, black, white, Hispanic, young, old, skinny, not-so skinny, crippled, healthy, Baptists, Catholics, Methodists, alone in the world, part of a huge family, divorced, living in sin, hard workers, educated, blue collar worker, frequent travelers, single, somewhat reclusive, near genius, dealing with a learning disability, rich, poor, grandparents, great-grandparents, volunteers, and more!
Now, who, in this group, should I drop as a friend? Why?
I enjoy each of our friends. We each give and take, equally, from our relationship with one another. If I were to join the JW's, I'd have to shun them, wouldn't I?
Doesn't make sense to me.
Yes, you would have to limit your association to only those who are approved of by "Jehovah" (actually, the Watchtower Society's Governing Body who is called the "Faithful Discreet Slave").
The only difference between the followers of the Watchtower Society and cults such as the one founded by Jim Jones (remember Jonestown, Guyana?) is that the JW's haven't been drinking literal KOOL-AID that is purple and poison. The KOOL-AID they drink is spiritual poison which will have an impact on them forever.
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Ciao, Bella!
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:06 am
Fed up with JW's
mrsK, I've thought about writing such a letter. However, I do not want them having my name. Call me strange, but it seems if they have my name, they can do more harm...
This next part is for everyone in general.
Here is the difference between my faith and theirs. I pray for God to bless everyone. I do not pray for Him to show them they are wrong in their faith, and to convert them. I say if they are happy, and it works for them, fine.
However, I do not think their faith works for me, and I want no part of it.
Bottom line: I have found my faith. Tiring of hearing how sinful women are, and constantly being blamed for a sin I did not commit, I left the Southern Baptist faith, and was quite the agnostic for more than ten years. I looked into other faiths/denominations, including Wicca, and LDS. Never, but never, did I seek out the JW's. Something always held me back.
However, I kept coming back to the Protestant faith, and it was a chance meeting that led me to the ELCA church. The very first Lutheran sermon I heard was so peaceful, I wept. I've not heard one sermon knocking another denomination/faith, yet I did constantly as a SB. I do not get doom and gloom all the time, (faith by depression and fear, I call it), I get uplifting messages that remind me of the love and forgiveness I read about.
I've not looked back, to the dismay of my mother, who literally swooned when I told her. I had to battle my BIL, who took it upon himself to convert me back to SB. I stayed true to my faith, respected his, and when BIL was dying of cancer, was able to pray for a swift end to his suffering.
So, it is not only JW's who must battle persecution.
However, all that aside, I truly do not have the time to battle with the JW's. My mom is dying of COPD, and I've two sisters who are being totally stinky about the whole thing. I am about to undergo medical testing to see if I will lose my hearing, which will take away music, my favorite thing. Add to that the fact we suffered a huge loss almost two years ago, and anyone can see why I'm so resistant.
My stress level is high, and I need my Lutheran faith to give me the peace I've sought all my life. In the six years I've been a Lutheran, I've gotten more support than I did growing up a SB.
If I weigh the pros and cons, Lutheran wins out, everytime. Can't deny it.
This next part is for everyone in general.
Here is the difference between my faith and theirs. I pray for God to bless everyone. I do not pray for Him to show them they are wrong in their faith, and to convert them. I say if they are happy, and it works for them, fine.
However, I do not think their faith works for me, and I want no part of it.
Bottom line: I have found my faith. Tiring of hearing how sinful women are, and constantly being blamed for a sin I did not commit, I left the Southern Baptist faith, and was quite the agnostic for more than ten years. I looked into other faiths/denominations, including Wicca, and LDS. Never, but never, did I seek out the JW's. Something always held me back.
However, I kept coming back to the Protestant faith, and it was a chance meeting that led me to the ELCA church. The very first Lutheran sermon I heard was so peaceful, I wept. I've not heard one sermon knocking another denomination/faith, yet I did constantly as a SB. I do not get doom and gloom all the time, (faith by depression and fear, I call it), I get uplifting messages that remind me of the love and forgiveness I read about.
I've not looked back, to the dismay of my mother, who literally swooned when I told her. I had to battle my BIL, who took it upon himself to convert me back to SB. I stayed true to my faith, respected his, and when BIL was dying of cancer, was able to pray for a swift end to his suffering.
So, it is not only JW's who must battle persecution.
However, all that aside, I truly do not have the time to battle with the JW's. My mom is dying of COPD, and I've two sisters who are being totally stinky about the whole thing. I am about to undergo medical testing to see if I will lose my hearing, which will take away music, my favorite thing. Add to that the fact we suffered a huge loss almost two years ago, and anyone can see why I'm so resistant.
My stress level is high, and I need my Lutheran faith to give me the peace I've sought all my life. In the six years I've been a Lutheran, I've gotten more support than I did growing up a SB.
If I weigh the pros and cons, Lutheran wins out, everytime. Can't deny it.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Fed up with JW's
Okay, I've read all this and can say I see nothing different in JW that can't be found in any society, family, group, neighborhood, or church. There are extremists who are so thick-headed, they just can't understand that others aren't interested. There are opposite extremists who are so thick-headed, they just can't understand that those extremists are not the norm, and that most are just normal people.
In my life relationships I've seen family members shunned either because they abused drugs or had other extreme lifestyles that the family leaders saw as harmful to the rest of the family. How is this different from JW, except in degree?
I've seen family members leave the family and cut all ties because they found another group, usually a church, who showed them more love, encouragement, or maybe discipline, than the family did. The families never understood, and thought they were brainwashed. How is this different from people that join JW & cut ties with their families?
My father left our family because of his relationship with his new church. He welcomed me with open arms any time I came around, and still would, but never makes contact with me. Apparently his church is more important than his son. BTW, he thinks JW are a cult as well.
When will people wake up and realize that generalizations hurt, and living by generalizations encourage hatred?
In my life relationships I've seen family members shunned either because they abused drugs or had other extreme lifestyles that the family leaders saw as harmful to the rest of the family. How is this different from JW, except in degree?
I've seen family members leave the family and cut all ties because they found another group, usually a church, who showed them more love, encouragement, or maybe discipline, than the family did. The families never understood, and thought they were brainwashed. How is this different from people that join JW & cut ties with their families?
My father left our family because of his relationship with his new church. He welcomed me with open arms any time I came around, and still would, but never makes contact with me. Apparently his church is more important than his son. BTW, he thinks JW are a cult as well.
When will people wake up and realize that generalizations hurt, and living by generalizations encourage hatred?
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Ciao, Bella!
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:06 am
Fed up with JW's
Iwokeup;540615 wrote: Yes, you would have to limit your association to only those who are approved of by "Jehovah" (actually, the Watchtower Society's Governing Body who is called the "Faithful Discreet Slave").
The only difference between the followers of the Watchtower Society and cults such as the one founded by Jim Jones (remember Jonestown, Guyana?) is that the JW's haven't been drinking literal KOOL-AID that is purple and poison. The KOOL-AID they drink is spiritual poison which will have an impact on them forever.
{{{Shudder}}} I remember Jonestown. That was when I first heard of cults. I've been very wary since then.
Formerly, I was very narrow-minded, religiously. Now, I'm able to see that most faiths have the same goal, to live a good and virtuous life, to not cause harm to others, to help in time of need, and guide the lost.
The only difference between the followers of the Watchtower Society and cults such as the one founded by Jim Jones (remember Jonestown, Guyana?) is that the JW's haven't been drinking literal KOOL-AID that is purple and poison. The KOOL-AID they drink is spiritual poison which will have an impact on them forever.
{{{Shudder}}} I remember Jonestown. That was when I first heard of cults. I've been very wary since then.
Formerly, I was very narrow-minded, religiously. Now, I'm able to see that most faiths have the same goal, to live a good and virtuous life, to not cause harm to others, to help in time of need, and guide the lost.
Fed up with JW's
Magenta flame;540522 wrote: oH I'm sorry I forgot to say that when I began studying and praying all that stuff of my youth stopped immediately .....and I've never looked back.
exorcism has been around long before the jw's have, and ALL religions make this claim. it is simply mind over matter.
either that or god doesn't give a fork what denomination you belong to.
personally, prayer and calling on the name of jehovah was completely useless for me when i was in my bathroom brushing my hair and getting ready to go to friends house when all the sudden the sound of some ungodly thing moaning and breathing permeated the room. it only stopped when i opened the door and walked out after 10 seconds of waiting for my help. :rolleyes:
my life has been spotted with paranormal experiences...up until i cut my ties with the jw's
the world is so much more complicated than that.
exorcism has been around long before the jw's have, and ALL religions make this claim. it is simply mind over matter.
either that or god doesn't give a fork what denomination you belong to.
personally, prayer and calling on the name of jehovah was completely useless for me when i was in my bathroom brushing my hair and getting ready to go to friends house when all the sudden the sound of some ungodly thing moaning and breathing permeated the room. it only stopped when i opened the door and walked out after 10 seconds of waiting for my help. :rolleyes:
my life has been spotted with paranormal experiences...up until i cut my ties with the jw's
the world is so much more complicated than that.
Fed up with JW's
Accountable;540621 wrote: Okay, I've read all this and can say I see nothing different in JW that can't be found in any society, family, group, neighborhood, or church. There are extremists who are so thick-headed, they just can't understand that others aren't interested. There are opposite extremists who are so thick-headed, they just can't understand that those extremists are not the norm, and that most are just normal people.
In my life relationships I've seen family members shunned either because they abused drugs or had other extreme lifestyles that the family leaders saw as harmful to the rest of the family. How is this different from JW, except in degree?
I've seen family members leave the family and cut all ties because they found another group, usually a church, who showed them more love, encouragement, or maybe discipline, than the family did. The families never understood, and thought they were brainwashed. How is this different from people that join JW & cut ties with their families?
My father left our family because of his relationship with his new church. He welcomed me with open arms any time I came around, and still would, but never makes contact with me. Apparently his church is more important than his son. BTW, he thinks JW are a cult as well.
When will people wake up and realize that generalizations hurt, and living by generalizations encourage hatred?
it's reprehensible in any case...
i don't see why you are trying to generalize and then make that comment about generalizations though.
In my life relationships I've seen family members shunned either because they abused drugs or had other extreme lifestyles that the family leaders saw as harmful to the rest of the family. How is this different from JW, except in degree?
I've seen family members leave the family and cut all ties because they found another group, usually a church, who showed them more love, encouragement, or maybe discipline, than the family did. The families never understood, and thought they were brainwashed. How is this different from people that join JW & cut ties with their families?
My father left our family because of his relationship with his new church. He welcomed me with open arms any time I came around, and still would, but never makes contact with me. Apparently his church is more important than his son. BTW, he thinks JW are a cult as well.
When will people wake up and realize that generalizations hurt, and living by generalizations encourage hatred?
it's reprehensible in any case...
i don't see why you are trying to generalize and then make that comment about generalizations though.
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Shweet tatersalad
- Posts: 1061
- Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 11:52 am
Fed up with JW's
Alllllllllllllll Righty then,this is getting fun.
I have at least two Pm's a day by people who are very upset about the exposer.
Pretty cool threats,Everything from please don't post anymore or else too We know where you live.After months of mundane fluffy subject matter we have tapped a nerve.I can't wait for the parade down main street.
I fully had every intention too let this thread go and not post anything again,but everyday some one calls me out in one way or another and makes me come back here.
If you are really that mad at me and want those bad things too happen then post your wishes on this thread for every one too see.If you don't go public,how will you get me banned?
I have at least two Pm's a day by people who are very upset about the exposer.
Pretty cool threats,Everything from please don't post anymore or else too We know where you live.After months of mundane fluffy subject matter we have tapped a nerve.I can't wait for the parade down main street.
I fully had every intention too let this thread go and not post anything again,but everyday some one calls me out in one way or another and makes me come back here.
If you are really that mad at me and want those bad things too happen then post your wishes on this thread for every one too see.If you don't go public,how will you get me banned?
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Fed up with JW's
ARgi;540759 wrote: i don't see why you are trying to generalize and then make that comment about generalizations though.
What do you mean?
What do you mean?
Fed up with JW's
Ciao, Bella!;536921 wrote: I do not mean to insult anyone here, but I am more than fedup with Jehovah's Witnesses. 
We've been in our new house ten months. Every two months, like clock work, my doorbell rings, and there they stand, with fake smiles. I've informed them over and over that we're members of another faith, and are not interested. The last time, I let it be known I will call the police if they come back. :yh_tongue
Yesterday morning, they came back. I let them know I'm beyond aggravated with them, and told them to leave, adding the request for them to wipe my soil off their shoes when they left my property.
What does it take to get through to them?:-5 I've a sticker of our faith on the front door, and I know they see and recognize it for what it is. The worst part of their bi-monthly visits is they wake up DH, who works nights.
I should booby-trap the doorbell. :sneaky: Or at the very least, put up a sign warning them away.
Every two months?????? Thats an absolute disgrace. They used to come every week where I used to live. They must be lazy where you are. Tell them to shape up or ship out. Its not good enough door knocking once every two months. Not good enough indeed.
We've been in our new house ten months. Every two months, like clock work, my doorbell rings, and there they stand, with fake smiles. I've informed them over and over that we're members of another faith, and are not interested. The last time, I let it be known I will call the police if they come back. :yh_tongue Yesterday morning, they came back. I let them know I'm beyond aggravated with them, and told them to leave, adding the request for them to wipe my soil off their shoes when they left my property.
What does it take to get through to them?:-5 I've a sticker of our faith on the front door, and I know they see and recognize it for what it is. The worst part of their bi-monthly visits is they wake up DH, who works nights.
I should booby-trap the doorbell. :sneaky: Or at the very least, put up a sign warning them away.
Every two months?????? Thats an absolute disgrace. They used to come every week where I used to live. They must be lazy where you are. Tell them to shape up or ship out. Its not good enough door knocking once every two months. Not good enough indeed.
Fed up with JW's
Accountable;541183 wrote: What do you mean?
i mean i don't understand what you were getting at ....
i mean i don't understand what you were getting at ....
Fed up with JW's
Diuretic;542066 wrote: Try this for slack - one in three years. What, do I live in a no-go zone??? 
You are probably experiencing the norm but you should get very angry and insist they stop anyway. I mean after all, it isn't everyday someone gives you such a clear cut reason to slam a religion :wah:
You are probably experiencing the norm but you should get very angry and insist they stop anyway. I mean after all, it isn't everyday someone gives you such a clear cut reason to slam a religion :wah:
Schooling results in matriculation. Education is a process that changes the learner.
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Fed up with JW's
ARgi;542013 wrote: i mean i don't understand what you were getting at ....
JW's are no different from any other group of people. They make rules the members agree are good, then as time goes on, individuals reinterpret the rules to fit their own ideas.
The danger isn't in the group members identifying themselves with the group, but with others identifying the members as the group. You yourself have demonstrated the consequences when this happens. The members are no longer people with hearts and minds and personalities of their own. They are that group. Any number of atrocities can be brought upon a group that we would never dream of allowing to happen to someone we know - even someone we don't particularly like.
This kind of generalization promotes fear, hatred, and ignorance. It has been used to start wars and opress ethnic groups.
I just tried to find a very recent thread about bikers, which addressed this issue in a similar way. It would have helped explain my position. Apparently a mod has overstepped and deleted it. Sad.
JW's are no different from any other group of people. They make rules the members agree are good, then as time goes on, individuals reinterpret the rules to fit their own ideas.
The danger isn't in the group members identifying themselves with the group, but with others identifying the members as the group. You yourself have demonstrated the consequences when this happens. The members are no longer people with hearts and minds and personalities of their own. They are that group. Any number of atrocities can be brought upon a group that we would never dream of allowing to happen to someone we know - even someone we don't particularly like.
This kind of generalization promotes fear, hatred, and ignorance. It has been used to start wars and opress ethnic groups.
I just tried to find a very recent thread about bikers, which addressed this issue in a similar way. It would have helped explain my position. Apparently a mod has overstepped and deleted it. Sad.
Fed up with JW's
Good grief go away for a few days and one has a book to read.
Someone asked for an ex JW to speak up. I just googled Ex JWs and there are some 311 000 sites listed. If anyone is interested go for it.
As for the complaints that one is picking on the JW's just announce that you are both a Christian and a pluralist. It's no different. Just let it be known that one is a Christian and you get hammered. It's all part of the game.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Someone asked for an ex JW to speak up. I just googled Ex JWs and there are some 311 000 sites listed. If anyone is interested go for it.
As for the complaints that one is picking on the JW's just announce that you are both a Christian and a pluralist. It's no different. Just let it be known that one is a Christian and you get hammered. It's all part of the game.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Fed up with JW's
"Just let it be known that one is a Christian and you get hammered. It's all part of the game."
++++++++++ Oh, please! :rolleyes:
++++++++++ Oh, please! :rolleyes:
My candle's burning at both ends, it will not last the night. But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends--It gives a lovely light!--Edna St. Vincent Millay
Fed up with JW's
Lulu2:-6
What would you call it? As far as I can see discussion and debate are a game. They can either be serious or not as the participants determine for themselves.
Of course Christians get hammered at times. The hammering really is unimportant and of no consequence unless one takes it personally. If they take it personally than perhaps they ought to move to another thread.
Shalom
Ted
What would you call it? As far as I can see discussion and debate are a game. They can either be serious or not as the participants determine for themselves.
Of course Christians get hammered at times. The hammering really is unimportant and of no consequence unless one takes it personally. If they take it personally than perhaps they ought to move to another thread.
Shalom
Ted
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Ciao, Bella!
- Posts: 295
- Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 9:06 am
Fed up with JW's
Ted;544749 wrote: Good grief go away for a few days and one has a book to read.
Someone asked for an ex JW to speak up. I just googled Ex JWs and there are some 311 000 sites listed. If anyone is interested go for it.
As for the complaints that one is picking on the JW's just announce that you are both a Christian and a pluralist. It's no different. Just let it be known that one is a Christian and you get hammered. It's all part of the game.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Some of those sites are very informative, aren't they?
Someone asked for an ex JW to speak up. I just googled Ex JWs and there are some 311 000 sites listed. If anyone is interested go for it.
As for the complaints that one is picking on the JW's just announce that you are both a Christian and a pluralist. It's no different. Just let it be known that one is a Christian and you get hammered. It's all part of the game.
Shalom
Ted:-6
Some of those sites are very informative, aren't they?
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Fed up with JW's
Lulu2;544762 wrote: "Just let it be known that one is a Christian and you get hammered. It's all part of the game."
++++++++++ Oh, please! :rolleyes:
He's right. Look at Ted's early history here. He caught it from both Christians and non.
Sorry, Ted.
++++++++++ Oh, please! :rolleyes:
He's right. Look at Ted's early history here. He caught it from both Christians and non.
Sorry, Ted.