Can you be christian without being religious?

cindy28 · Post by **cindy28** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:11 am

:-6 I believe you can be . I just wanted to know what others think.:-6

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:15 am

Yea, I do. I'm a christian, but I don't go to church. But then again I believe my religious preferences are between me and my God and not anyone elses business. Does that make sense?

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:16 am

Sheryl wrote: Yea, I do. I'm a christian, but I don't go to church. But then again I believe my religious preferences are between me and my God and not anyone elses business. Does that make sense?

Sher

It makes perfect sense to me

cars · Post by **cars** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:18 am

Sheryl wrote: Yea, I do. I'm a christian, but I don't go to church. But then again I believe my religious preferences are between me and my God and not anyone elses business. Does that make sense?

Exactally, same here!

Marie5656 · Post by **Marie5656** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:19 am

My hubby thinks alot like Sheryl. He is born again, but finds that his beliefs are ever evolving. He does not feel he has the same beliefs as he had 10 years ago..for various reasons.

I am not a religeous person, but have told him that if he wants to start going to church again, I would go with him. He said that going is not as important to him as it was when he was younger.

cindy28 · Post by **cindy28** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:22 am

Also makes sence to me. I read the bible but i dont go to a church. I relate the bible to my own life. works for me~!

cindy28 · Post by **cindy28** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:25 am

Marie5656 wrote: My hubby thinks alot like Sheryl. He is born again, but finds that his beliefs are ever evolving. He does not feel he has the same beliefs as he had 10 years ago..for various reasons.

I am not a religeous person, but have told him that if he wants to start going to church again, I would go with him. He said that going is not as important to him as it was when he was younger.

Iam born again also and i totally agree with you hubby about, his believes are ever evolving. Everytime i read the bible i get inspired more and learn more and believe more..:-6 I dont think going to church is nessasary. I think its more about being with others that believe.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:30 am

I think church is ok, but after awhile to me it becomes more about what the "people" in the church want you to believe and how you are to live, rather than how God wants us to live.

cindy28 · Post by **cindy28** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:34 am

Sheryl wrote: I think church is ok, but after awhile to me it becomes more about what the "people" in the church want you to believe and how you are to live, rather than how God wants us to live.

Yeah thats how i see it too.:-6

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:57 am

Basically aren't we all christians? We don't have to break down into any Religious following beyond that if we don't choose to.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:00 am

minks wrote: Basically aren't we all christians? We don't have to break down into any Religious following beyond that if we don't choose to.

It depends what a Christian is? I'm not sure I would want to be one.

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:01 am

zinkyusa wrote: It depends what a Christian is? I'm not sure I would want to be one.

I guess it's a matter of interpretaton huh, I am very un/non religious so my interpretation of Christian pretty much follows the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That sums up my interpretation.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:04 am

minks wrote: I guess it's a matter of interpretaton huh, I am very un/non religious so my interpretation of Christian pretty much follows the golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That sums up my interpretation.

Well I like that definition:-6

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:07 am

zinkyusa wrote: Well I like that definition:-6

Me too

And I'm Jewish :-6

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:07 am

zinkyusa wrote: Well I like that definition:-6

Simple and easy to follow. No barriers no discrimination.

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:19 am

flopstock wrote: There ya go! And one thing I've learned from this whole BR thingy, folks don't have to believe in one particular philosophy or another, the 'key' appears to be- having faith and truly believing in 'something'.

Oh yeah

That's why we keep sending BEAMS

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:22 am

flopstock wrote: There ya go! And one thing I've learned from this whole BR thingy, folks don't have to believe in one particular philosophy or another, the 'key' appears to be- having faith and truly believing in 'something'.

You've summed it up brilliantly! :-6

But what I think defines whether or not yuor a Christian is if you believe in God and Jesus. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:22 am

cherandbuster wrote: Oh yeah

That's why we keep sending BEAMS

As well the respect for others beliefs of certain "faiths" for the most part.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:43 am

minks wrote: Basically aren't we all christians? We don't have to break down into any Religious following beyond that if we don't choose to.

No.

RedGlitter · Post by **RedGlitter** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:48 am

Sheryl wrote: :-6

But what I think defines whether or not yuor a Christian is if you believe in God and Jesus. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe that is correct.

Except I would edit the God part as many people believe in God and are not christian.

I am not christian. I am a privately religious person. Very privately. I have a very spiritual nature. I do not attend church although I have been in a church a few times in my life

but I think what makes one religious is their faith itself, whatever the faith is.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:50 am

No. A christian is somebody who belives in Jesus christ i.e he was the son of god etc etc and follows his teachings. If you don't believe in his divinity then you are not a christian.

from the oxford english dictionary

Christian

• adjective relating to or professing Christianity or its teachings.

• noun a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Christianity.

— DERIVATIVES Christianize (also Christianise) verb.

— ORIGIN Latin Christianus, from Christus ‘Christ’.

You can't be a christian and be non religious, the two are mutually exclusive.

religion

• noun 1 the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods. 2 a particular system of faith and worship. 3 a pursuit or interest followed with devotion.

— ORIGIN originally in the sense life under monastic vows: from Latin religio ‘obligation, reverence’.

You can't be a christian and not be religious on the other hand you can be religious and not be christian.

Interestingly enough the american heritage dictionary has a wider definition-found it on line so dan't ask me how accurate it is.

1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.

2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

Kind of suggests you don't have to believe in JC to be a christian by that definition. Which is odd because then non believers can be called christian which speaking as a non believer is annoying and I think inaccurate

On the other hand if you believe in JC bit don't follow his teaching -say you lie to people to get them to agree to something they wouldn't ordinarily do or bear false witness against someone are you then still a christian? If you need someone to tell you how to think and behave and interpret his teachings are you following his teachings or allowing yourself to be brainwashed in which case if it is not a conscious choice can you be a true believer?

Now catholics and protestants have great fun warring about whose interpretations of his teachings are correct rather than finding unity in belief in a god in the first place not to mention in believing he had a son. On the other hand they find unity in beating up the unitarians. Can you be a christian if you don'ty believe in the holy trinity.

Not trying to wind anybody up here just curious how people's certainties stack up to being questioned. I find many religious followers of all faiths cannot accept that others may not share their belief.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:54 am

gmc wrote: No. A christian is somebody who belives in Jesus christ i.e he was the son of god etc etc and follows his teachings. If you don't believe in his divinity then you are not a christian.

from the oxford english dictionary

You can't be a christian and be non religious, the two are mutually exclusive.

You can't be a christian and not be religious on the other hand you can be religious and not be christian.

Interestingly enough the american heritage dictionary has a wider definition-found it on line so dan't ask me how accurate it is.

Kind of suggests you don't have to believe in JC to be a christian by that definition. Which is odd because then non believers can be called christian which speaking as a non believer is annoying and I think inaccurate

On the other hand if you believe in JC bit don't follow his teaching -say you lie to people to get them to agree to something they wouldn't ordinarily do or bear false witness against someone are you then still a christian? If you need someone to tell you how to think and behave and interpret his teachings are you following his teachings or allowing yourself to be brainwashed in which case if it is not a conscious choice can you be a true believer?

Now catholics and protestants have great fun warring about whose interpretations of his teachings are correct rather than finding unity in belief in a god in the first place not to mention in believing he had a son. On the other hand they find unity in beating up the unitarians. Can you be a christian if you don'ty believe in the holy trinity.

Not trying to wind anybody up here just curious how people's certainties stack up to being questioned. I find many religious followers of all faiths cannot accept that others may not share their belief.

OK, been waiting for that, I resign from Christians minksie...bye:(

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 10:56 am

Tis ok, I simply stated it was my interpretation. I stick with my good christian behavior.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:03 am

Most of the posts here seem to be answering the question "can you be Christian without going to church?" and of course you can (not that all Christians would agree with me by a long chalk).

Can you be Christian without being religious? No - by definition you need to be religious to be Christian.

Can you live a Christian life without being religious? Yes, you can live by the teachings without believing Jesus was the son of God or even that God exists.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:07 am

Then, by that last statement....a Buddhist could lead a "Christian" life? And I, an agnostic who lives by the "do unto others" principle...I could be said to be living a "Christian" life?

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:12 am

Hmmm so should the term "Christian life" be tossed out the window?

ok little fizzy brained here (took my pain pill) anyways what I mean by the above comment is that what some would call the Christian lifestyle can and does apply to others who are not Christian.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:15 am

Do I have to accept JC as the only son of God??

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:17 am

It's the basis of Christian teachings, zinky so I would say yea. Others may not agree though.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:19 am

OK...I was raised Southern Baptist and can tell you they'd laugh out loud hearing someone who had NOT "accepted Jesus Christ as their personal lord and savior" describing themselves as living a "Christian" life!

I might be said to be living with principles which include some of the teachings of Jesus (although his teachings weren't especially unique in all areas) but I'd certainly never want to call my life "Christian" because I'm not a member of that belief system.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:22 am

Sheryl wrote: It's the basis of Christian teachings, zinky so I would say yea. Others may not agree though.

Yep, that's what I always hear as well, one of the big reasons I don't claim the moniker..

He ain't my savior and I don't beileve God is a terrorist..

I like a lot of his message though:-6

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:22 am

Lulu2 wrote: OK...I was raised Southern Baptist and can tell you they'd laugh out loud hearing someone who had NOT "accepted Jesus Christ as their personal lord and savior" describing themselves as living a "Christian" life!

I might be said to be living with principles which include some of the teachings of Jesus (although his teachings weren't especially unique in all areas) but I'd certainly never want to call my life "Christian" because I'm not a member of that belief system.

i'm interested in hearing what turned you away from being a christian. if it's not my business just tell me to shut up.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:26 am

Lulu2 wrote: Then, by that last statement....a Buddhist could lead a "Christian" life? And I, an agnostic who lives by the "do unto others" principle...I could be said to be living a "Christian" life?

I do not know enough of the Buddhist belief system to know if there is anything within the Christian teachings that would be incompatable with it but I see no reason why not.

There is much more to the Christian teachings than do unto others but that is exactly what I am saying - an agnostic, or even an out and out athiest could accept the Christian teaching about how to conduct themselves and lead a Christian life.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:27 am

Logic turned me away, Sheryl. I began to think logically about the size/complexity of the universe, the fact that enormous parts of the Jewish/Christian texts have been lifted from earlier ones and started to question.

The hypocrisy of churches in general turned me away as did the behavior of religious groups over time.

Finally, I found Joseph Campbell, whose lifetime of comparative religion blew away the last vestige of whatever "loyalty" remained toward the Christian faith or organized religion in general. If you've never heard of him, I'd urge you to read his books or rent the video series he made with David Moyers.

He said "Once you've studied all religions, it's impossible to feel attached to just one." He was a man of some faith....I'm not. But I admire his dedication to the study of all human myth systems.

BRYN believe me, it's NOT a matter of "accepting Christian teachings." Millions of people who never HEARD of J.C. realized on their own that treating others the way we'd be treated just makes good social sense. If I saw value in "living a Christian life," I suppose I'd be a Christian.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:30 am

Thanks Lulu for answering. I understand alot of your reasons. I still have a little faith, but I think it's more I'm to scared not to believe. I think all fire brimstone sermons did that to me.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:33 am

Sheryl wrote: Hmmm so should the term "Christian life" be tossed out the window?

ok little fizzy brained here (took my pain pill) anyways what I mean by the above comment is that what some would call the Christian lifestyle can and does apply to others who are not Christian.

Not at all, living your life according to the teachings of Jesus Christ would be an admirable thing.

Being a Christian and living a Christian life are two separate things and, unfortunately, being the first does not guarantee the second.

If you're meaning that the second is not dependent on the first then I totally agree.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:34 am

Oh, Sheryl....I know ALLLLL about those sermons! :wah: Have you ever seen George Carlin do his hilarious routine where he calls on God to strike him dead? I doubt that anyone who's been raised in the "faith" listens to that without at least some little shred of "what if it really HAPPENS?"

Of course, it doesn't.

The threat of "F&B" has been used by Christians and Jews forever....it's a kind of "separation anxiety" and it's really scary to step aside and let them all go by. Logic says it's nonsense.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:38 am

Bryn Mawr wrote: .

If you're meaning that the second is not dependent on the first then I totally agree.

sorry I've never been the brightest bulb. But this last statement has me a little confused.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 11:59 am

Lulu2 wrote: Logic turned me away, Sheryl. I began to think logically about the size/complexity of the universe, the fact that enormous parts of the Jewish/Christian texts have been lifted from earlier ones and started to question.

The hypocrisy of churches in general turned me away as did the behavior of religious groups over time.

Finally, I found Joseph Campbell, whose lifetime of comparative religion blew away the last vestige of whatever "loyalty" remained toward the Christian faith or organized religion in general. If you've never heard of him, I'd urge you to read his books or rent the video series he made with David Moyers.

He said "Once you've studied all religions, it's impossible to feel attached to just one." He was a man of some faith....I'm not. But I admire his dedication to the study of all human myth systems.

BRYN believe me, it's NOT a matter of "accepting Christian teachings." Millions of people who never HEARD of J.C. realized on their own that treating others the way we'd be treated just makes good social sense. If I saw value in "living a Christian life," I suppose I'd be a Christian.

Last bit first - I see a distinct separation between Jesus' teachings on life and the church's teachings on God. I would agree that many other people have come to the same, or similar, philosophies off their own bat. There is much value in following the life teachings even if you do not believe the religious claims.

Which brings us to the Church. The faults of messenger do not invalidate the message - just because the organised church is corrupt and full of hypocracy does not mean that the original message that they carry is, of necessity, wrong. It just means that people are weak and have abused their position.

If you have, as you appear to, examined the message and found it wanting then fair enough, but don't through the baby out with the bathwater.

Apart from that, I totally agree with you. The "borrowings" in the Bible are rife and Christianity does appear to be one more step in our evolution towards understanding. Have you read Frazer's exploration of the earlier stages of our growth in The Golden Bough?

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:05 pm

Sheryl wrote: sorry I've never been the brightest bulb. But this last statement has me a little confused.

I really do apologise, I have a horrible tendancy to condense down too far.

It went with the statement :-

Being a Christian and living a Christian life are two separate things

and was meant to say :-

If you're meaning that living a Christian life is not dependent on being a Christian then I totally agree.

Sheryl · Post by **Sheryl** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:10 pm

thank you Bryn.

Adam Zapple · Post by **Adam Zapple** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 12:59 pm

Hebrews 10:23-25 says Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another.

Some say the "assembly" is a literal coming together, other say it is an assembling of the spirit. I tend to prefer the first explanationl Going to church in and of itself doesn't make one a Christian and you can certainly live a Christian life and have a close relationship with God outside of church. But I believe that finding a loving, doctrinally-sound church is important in your growth as a Christian. We all have things to learn and my doctrine has also changed over the years. I am on a life-long journey of seeking God and it is a learning experience. But being around like-minded Christians who can encourage you, pray for you, support you, empathize with your failures and shortcomings, and exhort you can be like getting your batteries recharged. I love to just sit in church and worship. I can do it at home but it is sometimes a special experience at church.

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:43 pm

BRYN "If you have, as you appear to, examined the message and found it wanting then fair enough, but don't through the baby out with the bathwater."

It's got nothing to do with messages, burning bushes, pits of fire or even throwing babies! :wah: It's got everything to do with logic!

My philosophy is this: our brains evolved to look at problems/solutions. We want to find patterns so we can follow them to conclusions. It bothers us that we don't understand the universe and it bothers us that we don't know what happens when we die.

Back in the good old days, we decided the earth was created on the back of a giant sea turtle, when two (HUMAN-like) gods dipped a spear into the mud and began to drip it down onto the turtle. Or, we decided the earth was created when the sacred goose of Amon laid the egg which cracked the earth. Other times, we decided the earth was created by an entity which then made US in "his" image.

There's a pattern here...and it's about understanding and control. We like the idea that we look like (some of) the gods and we can petition them so that WE can influence the doings of the universe and our personal fates. We like the idea that we now KNOW what happens when we die..the big diety takes care of us...if we're good while we're here, all will be well there. It's a comfort because we're more in control.

But wait...there's more! (:wah: ) It's about control of others, too, because religion has lots of rules for behavior, day-to-day and on special occasions, too. "THE CHURCH" has had great control over us since we created it. It's channeled our (innate) feelings of empathy and tribalism and allowed us to do charity and alms and, sometimes, wars and hatred.

I don't want to sound as if I'm slamming religion! Most of my family is religious and they're some fine people who quietly practice their faith and find comfort in it. My grandmother was probably the most CHRISTIAN woman you can ever imagine and she'd be horrified to see what I've written here. I loved her and would never have let her know these opinions. For some people, it's really important and that's fine for them.

For me, religion is illogical. The fact that we don't fully understand the science of the universe only means we don't know YET! I'm ok with not knowing. If, by some amazing circumstance, our species survives for another ten thousand years...we might actually figure out the answers to those questions we've tried to answer with religion.

zinkyusa · Post by **zinkyusa** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:49 pm

Lulu2 wrote: BRYN "If you have, as you appear to, examined the message and found it wanting then fair enough, but don't through the baby out with the bathwater."

It's got nothing to do with messages, burning bushes, pits of fire or even throwing babies! :wah: It's got everything to do with logic!

My philosophy is this: our brains evolved to look at problems/solutions. We want to find patterns so we can follow them to conclusions. It bothers us that we don't understand the universe and it bothers us that we don't know what happens when we die.

Back in the good old days, we decided the earth was created on the back of a giant sea turtle, when two (HUMAN-like) gods dipped a spear into the mud and began to drip it down onto the turtle. Or, we decided the earth was created when the sacred goose of Amon laid the egg which cracked the earth. Other times, we decided the earth was created by a an entity which then made US in "his" image.

There's a pattern here...and it's about understanding and control. We like the idea that we look like (some of) the gods and we can petition them so that WE can influence the doings of the universe and our personal fates. We like the idea that we now KNOW what happens when we die..the big diety takes care of us...if we're good while we're here, all will be well there. It's a comfort because we're more in control.

But wait...there's more! (:wah: ) It's about control of others, too, because religion has lots of rules for behavior, day-to-day and on special occasions, too. "THE CHURCH" has had great control over us since we created it. It's channeled our (innate) feelings of empathy and tribalism and allowed us to do charity and alms and, sometimes, wars and hatred.

I don't want to sound as if I'm slamming religion! Most of my family is religious and they're some fine people who quietly practice their faith and find comfort in it. My grandmother was probably the most CHRISTIAN woman you can ever imagine and she'd be horrified to see what I've written here. I loved her and would never have let her know these opinions. For some people, it's really important and that's fine for them.

For me, religion is illogical. The fact that we don't fully understand the science of the universe only means we don't know YET! I'm ok with not knowing. If, by some amazing circumstance, our species survives for another ten thousand years...we might actually figure out the answers to those questions we've tried to answer with religion.

well said Lulu..

Lulu2 · Post by **Lulu2** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:54 pm

(awwww....I love your sig line, Zinkster!)

cherandbuster · Post by **cherandbuster** » Wed Sep 13, 2006 1:59 pm

zinkyusa wrote: well said Lulu..

I agree. Totally. :-6