War is a Dog-awful thing. While I would like nothing more then for there to be no civilian casualties, the fact is that there has NEVER been and will NEVER be a war that doesn't have civilian casualties.
As a military wife and the mother of a son, I don't like war anymore then Cindy Sheehan. However. We HAVE to finish what we started! We went into a country that didn't think very highly of us to start with, took away the only government they knew, bombed their cities, destroyed their homes and changed their lives forever. While the old government may have been barbaric and corrupt, it was THEIR government. So, if you think that if we pack up our soldiers and bring them home that the people of Iraq will suddenly love America, think again. Before our troops can come home, there needs to be some semblance of order.
The people that our troops are fighting against don't think like we do. They don't care about the rules of engagement or the sanctity of life. In their minds, dying is a great thing that will win them the gratitude of their God. They use their children to lure our troops into harm's way. They strap bombs to their bodies or their cars and drive themselves into school buses full of children.
So when we leave their country a mess, do you honestly think that they will not consider bringing some of that to our country? Do we need to lose a couple thousand people in another office building to be reminded of what these extremists are capable of? Maybe if some of our children are killed people will realize that this is a very serious threat.
As for the money.....
Maybe if we didn't throw good money after bad at disaster areas, collected the debts owed to the government in Federal Fines for safety violations by major corporations, stopped giving tax breaks to companies that make BILLIONS of dollars in profits we wouldn't be so far in debt. Or, gosh, maybe we could use the hundreds of troops that are trained in support positions in Iraq instead of paying billions of dollars to a company to do those same jobs.
Gosh, I feel better now.
Just a matter of time.
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Just a matter of time.
Sandi
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Just a matter of time.
SnoozeControl wrote: Using that logic, we'd still be in Vietnam.
Ummm, I don't remember there having been any Vietnamese Terrorist Attacks carried out on U.S. soil.
Ummm, I don't remember there having been any Vietnamese Terrorist Attacks carried out on U.S. soil.
Sandi
Just a matter of time.
SnoozeControl wrote: We need to get the hell out of there.
We should never have gone in there - but having done so, we cannot just turn around and walk away.
We should never have gone in there - but having done so, we cannot just turn around and walk away.
Just a matter of time.
LilacDragon wrote: War is a Dog-awful thing. While I would like nothing more then for there to be no civilian casualties, the fact is that there has NEVER been and will NEVER be a war that doesn't have civilian casualties.
As a military wife and the mother of a son, I don't like war anymore then Cindy Sheehan. However. We HAVE to finish what we started! We went into a country that didn't think very highly of us to start with, took away the only government they knew, bombed their cities, destroyed their homes and changed their lives forever. While the old government may have been barbaric and corrupt, it was THEIR government. So, if you think that if we pack up our soldiers and bring them home that the people of Iraq will suddenly love America, think again. Before our troops can come home, there needs to be some semblance of order.
Thus far I agree completely. Having destroyed their infrastructure we have an obligation to help them put it back together again.
As for winnig the battle for hearts and minds - that would take a miracle.
As a military wife and the mother of a son, I don't like war anymore then Cindy Sheehan. However. We HAVE to finish what we started! We went into a country that didn't think very highly of us to start with, took away the only government they knew, bombed their cities, destroyed their homes and changed their lives forever. While the old government may have been barbaric and corrupt, it was THEIR government. So, if you think that if we pack up our soldiers and bring them home that the people of Iraq will suddenly love America, think again. Before our troops can come home, there needs to be some semblance of order.
Thus far I agree completely. Having destroyed their infrastructure we have an obligation to help them put it back together again.
As for winnig the battle for hearts and minds - that would take a miracle.
Just a matter of time.
Clipper wrote: LD you make some pretty valid points in your post. IMHO the war in Iraq would not be portrayed as going so badly if some folks here in this country would just get over the fact that Bush did in fact win the election.
Being a Brit I don't have a clue whether Bush broke the rules or not.
It is obvious though, that the war went well but the peace is going VERY badly.
Being a Brit I don't have a clue whether Bush broke the rules or not.
It is obvious though, that the war went well but the peace is going VERY badly.
Just a matter of time.
Clipper wrote: Seems to me like a lot of time is spent by folks looking at and publicizing his errors rather than paying any attention at all to the good his administration has accomplished.
OK, I did that... now what do I do with the other 59 minutes & 59 seconds left in the hour??
OK, I did that... now what do I do with the other 59 minutes & 59 seconds left in the hour??
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Just a matter of time.
observer1 wrote: OK, I did that... now what do I do with the other 59 minutes & 59 seconds left in the hour??
:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
:yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl :yh_rotfl
Sandi
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Accountable
- Posts: 24818
- Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 8:33 am
Just a matter of time.
observer1 wrote: OK, I did that... now what do I do with the other 59 minutes & 59 seconds left in the hour??
In case you missed this.
http://lauraingraham.com/freephotos?.../iraqmedia.jsp
In case you missed this.
http://lauraingraham.com/freephotos?.../iraqmedia.jsp
Just a matter of time.
Scrat wrote: We came there to get Saddam and destroy the rigime he controled. That has been done. We are finished we should leave.
Having dismantled whatever passed as the country's infrastructure, wrecked the economy and set the people at each other's throats we are not finished.
We have created an obligation and should leave the country in a viable condition – not the next Lebanon
Having dismantled whatever passed as the country's infrastructure, wrecked the economy and set the people at each other's throats we are not finished.
We have created an obligation and should leave the country in a viable condition – not the next Lebanon
Just a matter of time.
Scrat wrote: It is the next Lebanon.
If we're not going to put 400,000 more pairs of boots on the ground there with adequate armor and firesupport, go after every warlord and politician now in power and shoot them in the back of the head in front of the next bunch we put in power, we had better just leave.
Get tough, or get out.
The decision to invade brought with it an obligation to see the results of our action through to an acceptable conclusion.
Junking someone else's country is not an acceptable conclusion.
If it takes another 400,000 pairs of boots then so be it – we are responsible for the results of our actions and must accept the consequences of those actions.
And, BTW, shooting everyone in the back of the head is not an acceptable solution either.
That we should never have gone in in the first place just adds to our shame.
If we're not going to put 400,000 more pairs of boots on the ground there with adequate armor and firesupport, go after every warlord and politician now in power and shoot them in the back of the head in front of the next bunch we put in power, we had better just leave.
Get tough, or get out.
The decision to invade brought with it an obligation to see the results of our action through to an acceptable conclusion.
Junking someone else's country is not an acceptable conclusion.
If it takes another 400,000 pairs of boots then so be it – we are responsible for the results of our actions and must accept the consequences of those actions.
And, BTW, shooting everyone in the back of the head is not an acceptable solution either.
That we should never have gone in in the first place just adds to our shame.
Just a matter of time.
Scrat wrote: I really think we should get a clue and figure out that we are not wanted at this party.
We weren't wanted in the first place - why have qualms now?
We weren't wanted in the first place - why have qualms now?
Just a matter of time.
Scrat wrote:
What is your plan?
I'm the wrong one to ask, it was the governments that decided in their infinite wisdom to take us in there - against my wishes and despite my opposition.
(This is the main problem with representative democracy as opposed to true democracy)
There's is the moral responsibility to sort the mess out and take the consequences of their actions.
What is your plan?
I'm the wrong one to ask, it was the governments that decided in their infinite wisdom to take us in there - against my wishes and despite my opposition.
(This is the main problem with representative democracy as opposed to true democracy)
There's is the moral responsibility to sort the mess out and take the consequences of their actions.
Just a matter of time.
Scrat wrote: Politicians are the most amoral things in existance.
That doesn't excuse them - just makes it more important that we keep on at them.
That doesn't excuse them - just makes it more important that we keep on at them.
Just a matter of time.
Scrat wrote: Like I said. Get tough or get out. Take all of the politicians we have there now (the ones who are doing nothing but looking after their own interests) put them beside a roadside ditch and put a bullet in the back of their heads.I may be wrong, but I suspect that if I put such a measure forward as a means of disciplining the White House administration, my name might rapidly appear on a security list someplace, to my future detriment. My international travel plans might even hit snags. Which is strange, since it's the White House administration that's directly and personally responsible for the position "all of the politicians we have there now" face.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Just a matter of time.
Scrat wrote: I'm not talking about the Whitehouse administration. I'm talking about the thugs and common theives in power there in Iraq now.You seem oblivious to your partiality, that's all. If one says these things looking outward, one's a patriot. If one says it looking inward, one's on the watchlists and inherently suspect.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Just a matter of time.
The birth of a democracy has never been something that happens overnight and it is seldom easy. Since we started the ball rolling, we can hardly back out now.
I really hate to say this but these extremist really hated Americans before. If September 11th didn't teach us anything (and looking at the state of our "increased security" - I don't think that it taught us enough) then pulling out of Iraq now will. I honestly believe that if we pull out and take away that focus for the extremists, they WILL bring their agenda to our soil. They have absolutely NO compunction in killing their own children - what makes you think they won't target ours?
I really hate to say this but these extremist really hated Americans before. If September 11th didn't teach us anything (and looking at the state of our "increased security" - I don't think that it taught us enough) then pulling out of Iraq now will. I honestly believe that if we pull out and take away that focus for the extremists, they WILL bring their agenda to our soil. They have absolutely NO compunction in killing their own children - what makes you think they won't target ours?
Sandi
Just a matter of time.
LilacDragon wrote: I really hate to say this but these extremist really hated Americans before. If September 11th didn't teach us anything (and looking at the state of our "increased security" - I don't think that it taught us enough) then pulling out of Iraq now will. I honestly believe that if we pull out and take away that focus for the extremists, they WILL bring their agenda to our soil. They have absolutely NO compunction in killing their own children - what makes you think they won't target ours?Would "pulling out of Iraq now" increase the risk of extremist attack on homeland US soil? Yes, it probably would - the US has stirred up a hornet's nest and increased support for extreme positions manyfold, in invading Iraq.
That doesn't diminish the moral duty of the US to remove its forces from Iraq immediately, though.
The coalition troops have no business being there, they weren't invited in, they most certainly aren't welcome now, and we know (as many claimed at the time) that Iraq posed no threat to America or the UK before the invasion. The pretexts for the invasion - WMD and any claimed link with September 11th - have both been exposed as deliberate knowing lies. If the invasion and occupation have left the US with an increased risk to homeland security, then that's what the White House administration has succeeded in achieving, but it's no reason to prolong the illegitimate coalition presence in the Middle East.
That doesn't diminish the moral duty of the US to remove its forces from Iraq immediately, though.
The coalition troops have no business being there, they weren't invited in, they most certainly aren't welcome now, and we know (as many claimed at the time) that Iraq posed no threat to America or the UK before the invasion. The pretexts for the invasion - WMD and any claimed link with September 11th - have both been exposed as deliberate knowing lies. If the invasion and occupation have left the US with an increased risk to homeland security, then that's what the White House administration has succeeded in achieving, but it's no reason to prolong the illegitimate coalition presence in the Middle East.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Just a matter of time.
When my 8 year old son goes to visit a friend, he is morally obligated to help clean up any mess he helped make.
No, we were not invited. No, we did not have legitimate reasons to go. Yes, we are morally obligated to clean up the mess we made.
After looking at pictures of the attacks on 9/11 - I am not so sure that we INCREASED the risk of attacks on our soil by going into Iraq. I do think that we have not taken the risk as seriously as we should. Illegal aliens still pour into our country through largely unprotected borders and our current government seems to think that it is fine to hand over port responsibilities to foreign companies with ties to countries that harbor terrorists.
Having spent more time at Detroit International Airport in the last year then I have in my entire life, I can tell you that the security there does not inspire the warm fuzzy feeling of safety that one would expect.
No, I don't have an answer. But I do know that when my son's friends come over and leave a mess - I am furious.
No, we were not invited. No, we did not have legitimate reasons to go. Yes, we are morally obligated to clean up the mess we made.
After looking at pictures of the attacks on 9/11 - I am not so sure that we INCREASED the risk of attacks on our soil by going into Iraq. I do think that we have not taken the risk as seriously as we should. Illegal aliens still pour into our country through largely unprotected borders and our current government seems to think that it is fine to hand over port responsibilities to foreign companies with ties to countries that harbor terrorists.
Having spent more time at Detroit International Airport in the last year then I have in my entire life, I can tell you that the security there does not inspire the warm fuzzy feeling of safety that one would expect.
No, I don't have an answer. But I do know that when my son's friends come over and leave a mess - I am furious.
Sandi
Just a matter of time.
LilacDragon wrote: When my 8 year old son goes to visit a friend, he is morally obligated to help clean up any mess he helped make.When your son cleans up any mess he helped make, he doesn't scrub out the oven, repaint the eaves and renovate the bathroom at the same time - he simply restores the status quo. I'm quite sure there's still enough Ba'athists in Iraq to get the place back to its former condition in no time flat, and still not be any threat to the US homeland. The Ba'athists, after all, never were.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
-
LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Just a matter of time.
Well, then I suppose we had better hang around until they have a government up and running at the very least. Since that IS the mess we made.
Sandi
Just a matter of time.
spot wrote:
That doesn't diminish the moral duty of the US to remove its forces from Iraq immediately, though.
I'm sorry but I cannot agree with you in the slightest.
As I have said previously, I believe that our moral responsibility is to put Humpty back together to a sufficient extent that the country can function as a country and not leave a power vacuum waiting for the warlords to step in and totally destroy the place.
That doesn't diminish the moral duty of the US to remove its forces from Iraq immediately, though.
I'm sorry but I cannot agree with you in the slightest.
As I have said previously, I believe that our moral responsibility is to put Humpty back together to a sufficient extent that the country can function as a country and not leave a power vacuum waiting for the warlords to step in and totally destroy the place.
Just a matter of time.
Bryn Mawr wrote: I'm sorry but I cannot agree with you in the slightest.
As I have said previously, I believe that our moral responsibility is to put Humpty back together to a sufficient extent that the country can function as a country and not leave a power vacuum waiting for the warlords to step in and totally destroy the place.If that's all that's bothering you, look no further than the Baghdad courtroom where the show trial's taking place. Enoch Powell's dictum - no country has the right to interfere in the internal affairs of any other - applies all the more when you disagree with their practices. I'm sure the Republican Guard can reconvene in days.
As I have said previously, I believe that our moral responsibility is to put Humpty back together to a sufficient extent that the country can function as a country and not leave a power vacuum waiting for the warlords to step in and totally destroy the place.If that's all that's bothering you, look no further than the Baghdad courtroom where the show trial's taking place. Enoch Powell's dictum - no country has the right to interfere in the internal affairs of any other - applies all the more when you disagree with their practices. I'm sure the Republican Guard can reconvene in days.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Just a matter of time.
spot wrote: If that's all that's bothering you, look no further than the Baghdad courtroom where the show trial's taking place. Enoch Powell's dictum - no country has the right to interfere in the internal affairs of any other - applies all the more when you disagree with their practices. I'm sure the Republican Guard can reconvene in days.
Too true - we had NO right to go in there in the first place.
but having done so we cannot walk out on a disaster.
Too true - we had NO right to go in there in the first place.
but having done so we cannot walk out on a disaster.
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LilacDragon
- Posts: 1382
- Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:23 am
Just a matter of time.
Scrat wrote: And if you're the reason it is such a disaster? What if your mere presence is a major cause of the strife?
Like it or not the country has for all intents and purposes been in a civil war for some time now. Our weak and futile actions only ensure that the torment of the Iraqi people will be extended.
Your stand on morality in this situation is completely out of touch with reality. If we are to hold our politicians to your "moral standard" what will we do? Send them all to Iraq with guns in their hands? We can sit on our butts here and scream day and night but it comes down to getting tough or getting out.
If we stay, where are we going to get the manpower to end this? Or is it supposed to end?
I cannot agree with allowing the Iraqis to suffer. Maybe we should just let Saddam go?
Puleeaze!
OF COURSE we are the reason it is such a disaster now!! We never should have gone in there in the first place! Saddam wasn't a threat to the U.S.! The terrorists were being trained in Afganistan and Syria, if we based this action on terrorist threat then we should have gone into Syria.
My morality is out of touch with reality!? I don't think so. I do think that our politicians have lost touch with the actual people they represent and live life in a numbers dream world. There are thousands of Africans dying every day because of civil war but you don't see our CIC sending our troops in there. Why? Could it be that there aren't any (or many) natural rescources that we can exploit there?
9/11 was a warning. As long as our troops are in Iraq, then the extremists will center their attention there. If we pull all of our troops out and bring them home, then there will be a civil war in Iraq and those who don't come from there will turn their attention back to us - here - on our soil. Do we really need car bombs in our neighborhoods? Because if you thini it won't come down to that you are sadly mistaken.
The American public won't watch for these things. If you think that your neighbor would call the police if they saw a strange car parked in front of your neighbor's house,you need to think again. We are a society based on thte premise of minding your own business. Watch the news. Those boys that disapperared in, was it Wisconsin (?) a couple of weeks ago - do you really think that nobody saw ANYTHING? Sure someone saw something, but they didn't think it was their business so they looked the other way and put it out of their mind.
As for letting Saddam go. Not hardly. We should have put a bullet in his head when we found him. And yes, now that we are there - we should send all the troops over that we can and get the job DONE. We really need to stop dinking around, get tough and THEN get out.
Like it or not the country has for all intents and purposes been in a civil war for some time now. Our weak and futile actions only ensure that the torment of the Iraqi people will be extended.
Your stand on morality in this situation is completely out of touch with reality. If we are to hold our politicians to your "moral standard" what will we do? Send them all to Iraq with guns in their hands? We can sit on our butts here and scream day and night but it comes down to getting tough or getting out.
If we stay, where are we going to get the manpower to end this? Or is it supposed to end?
I cannot agree with allowing the Iraqis to suffer. Maybe we should just let Saddam go?
Puleeaze!
OF COURSE we are the reason it is such a disaster now!! We never should have gone in there in the first place! Saddam wasn't a threat to the U.S.! The terrorists were being trained in Afganistan and Syria, if we based this action on terrorist threat then we should have gone into Syria.
My morality is out of touch with reality!? I don't think so. I do think that our politicians have lost touch with the actual people they represent and live life in a numbers dream world. There are thousands of Africans dying every day because of civil war but you don't see our CIC sending our troops in there. Why? Could it be that there aren't any (or many) natural rescources that we can exploit there?
9/11 was a warning. As long as our troops are in Iraq, then the extremists will center their attention there. If we pull all of our troops out and bring them home, then there will be a civil war in Iraq and those who don't come from there will turn their attention back to us - here - on our soil. Do we really need car bombs in our neighborhoods? Because if you thini it won't come down to that you are sadly mistaken.
The American public won't watch for these things. If you think that your neighbor would call the police if they saw a strange car parked in front of your neighbor's house,you need to think again. We are a society based on thte premise of minding your own business. Watch the news. Those boys that disapperared in, was it Wisconsin (?) a couple of weeks ago - do you really think that nobody saw ANYTHING? Sure someone saw something, but they didn't think it was their business so they looked the other way and put it out of their mind.
As for letting Saddam go. Not hardly. We should have put a bullet in his head when we found him. And yes, now that we are there - we should send all the troops over that we can and get the job DONE. We really need to stop dinking around, get tough and THEN get out.
Sandi
Just a matter of time.
LilacDragon wrote: As for letting Saddam go. Not hardly. We should have put a bullet in his head when we found him. And yes, now that we are there - we should send all the troops over that we can and get the job DONE. We really need to stop dinking around, get tough and THEN get out.Purely out of interest, why should should the Americans have "have put a bullet in his head when we found him"? The man had, after all, been responsible for implementing US policy in the Middle East for at least some portion of the 1980s. From the moment when the Shah was ejected by popular acclaim from Iran in 1979, US containment of the Ayatollah's revolution was based primarily on fostering and supporting the Iraqi invasion of Iran and the subsequent bloody stalemate. Those were the buddy-buddy days.
Regardless, I dislike this notion of vigilante justice, whether there's classified secret executive orders involved in such execution or not. The phrase "justice should be seen to be done" refers to trial and sentencing, not to bloodshed.
Regardless, I dislike this notion of vigilante justice, whether there's classified secret executive orders involved in such execution or not. The phrase "justice should be seen to be done" refers to trial and sentencing, not to bloodshed.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Just a matter of time.
Bryn Mawr wrote: but having done so we cannot walk out on a disaster.http://www.time.com/time/magazine/print ... 29,00.html is an interesting read, agreeing with your position.
I particularly note his comment "If, however, the Iraqis prove unable to govern, and there is open civil war, then I am prepared to change my position."
I particularly note his comment "If, however, the Iraqis prove unable to govern, and there is open civil war, then I am prepared to change my position."
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Just a matter of time.
spot wrote: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/print ... 29,00.html is an interesting read, agreeing with your position.
I particularly note his comment "If, however, the Iraqis prove unable to govern, and there is open civil war, then I am prepared to change my position."
As you say, an interesting read - he obviously knows the players and the background well given his former position and the assumptions he takes as "without question" are illuminating.
He's right in that you must continuously evaluate your position in the light of a changing situation but I take issue on his assertion that it was right to go into Afganistan. It was wrong then and is doing the US no favours now.
I particularly note his comment "If, however, the Iraqis prove unable to govern, and there is open civil war, then I am prepared to change my position."
As you say, an interesting read - he obviously knows the players and the background well given his former position and the assumptions he takes as "without question" are illuminating.
He's right in that you must continuously evaluate your position in the light of a changing situation but I take issue on his assertion that it was right to go into Afganistan. It was wrong then and is doing the US no favours now.
Just a matter of time.
Bryn Mawr wrote: He's right in that you must continuously evaluate your position in the light of a changing situation but I take issue on his assertion that it was right to go into Afganistan. It was wrong then and is doing the US no favours now.Presumably Marine Lieut. General Greg Newbold took the White House seriously when assured that "The president did not - not - receive information about the use of airplanes as missiles by suicide bombers. This was a new type of attack that was not foreseen." Had he not he might have been rather more angry with his own Chief of Staff rather than with his ex-comrades-in-arms from the days of harrying Soviet troops.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Just a matter of time.
Diuretic wrote: I think going into Afghanistan was the right thing to do. All the evidence re the terrorist attacks pointed to AQ in Afghanistan, being hosted by the Taliban government. But going into Iraq, now that was a completely different story.
And how badly has it hurt AQ?
And how badly has it hurt the reputation of the US?
And how badly has it hurt the non-combatants in Afganistan?
And how badly has it hurt AQ?
And how badly has it hurt the reputation of the US?
And how badly has it hurt the non-combatants in Afganistan?