Hamas....

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:04 pm

What do people think about Hamas winning Wednesday's Palestinian elections???

Does it bode well that they are now inside a political process??

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:40 pm

We can only hope.

Wolverine · Post by **Wolverine** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:50 pm

Far Rider wrote: Sounds like to me we save 380 million dollars! Wooohooooo!
ok, i'm slow. how do we save $380 million?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:16 pm

Then it's time to find a second party to put in congress.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:20 pm

Astra wrote: What do people think about Hamas winning Wednesday's Palestinian elections???

Does it bode well that they are now inside a political process??

For those that believe in democratic voting, it looks like Hamas represents the majority view of the Palestinians. How can a terrorist organisation that believes in the destruction of Israel bode well for anyone?

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:26 am

Lon wrote: For those that believe in democratic voting, it looks like Hamas represents the majority view of the Palestinians. How can a terrorist organisation that believes in the destruction of Israel bode well for anyone?

As I understand it, the Palestinians have voted against what they see as corrruption in the Fatah party. Now that Hamas is democratically elected and has to answer to all the Palestinian people, including those who didn't vote for them, it 's not going to be in their best interests to continue their violent tactics. Just remains to be seen if they can keep the radical firebrands under control. In some ways it's not so different from the situation that existed in Northern Ireland and that is better than it's been for a long time. I think it would be very short sighted of governments to refuse to speak with any other democratically elected government even if they no longer wish to fund the Palestinian Authority. Surely any chance at peace should be given a chance?

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:30 am

Far Rider wrote: Sounds like to me we save 380 million dollars! Wooohooooo!

Some more to spend on the reconstruction of Iraq!!! Woooohoooo!!!

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:36 am

On the money Astra. One of the main stumbling points with atlking to Hamas is that they will not renounce their aim to never recognise Israel. We started talking to the IRA long before they renounced violence and they have NEVER renounced their aim for a united Ireland.

Go ahead and withdraw the funding from Plaestine and then count as far as you can get before Hamas and all the other organisations get shedloads of young recruits because the conditions will have been created whereby terrosrit organisations are the only ones who offer any future even though it amy only be as a suicide bomber.

The palestinians have voted, they have elected Hamas in what was seen by observers to be a fair election and that is all there is to it. Now we can isolate them and take the consequences or try and work with them.

I also get a very nasty taste in my mouth when bot US and UK governments start taking the moral high ground when saying they will not talk to terrorists, we dont need to look too far for government engagement with terrorists, certain South American dictatorships spring to mind and indeed we were onvce (not that long ago) Saddam Hussein's best friend

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:02 am

I agree that it is a huge difficulty that Hamas say they will never recognise Israel but never is a long time. We have to get through the initial stages and we have to somehow overcome the fact that many people have lived all their lives with what appears, to them rightly or wrongly, to be gross injustice to their people. Don't we have to take human nature into account here and see that if governments insist on taking the "no talk" route thre can be no possibility of any negotiations on anything...and that Hamas and the Palestinian people will feel more humiliated and done down than they already do? And that can only lead to more violence and a chance will have been lost.

I agree it would be quite wrong to withdraw funding for the reasons you give and others...my comment to Far was intended to be satirical!!! Even if USA withdraws funding, I think Europe should provide and there is something in the paper today that suggests that maybe Arab countries could fund them as well.

You're right..there's a hell of a lot of hypocrisy out there....it's quite hard for me not to feel some sympathy for the Palestinians when I look at how impossible it is for any of them to have anything remotely resembling what we would see as a normal life.

Thanks for your reply..nice to talk to you

Bothwell · Post by **Bothwell** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:20 am

You know I think what we are missing here is "Old School" diplomacy, my opinion is that we here and in the US have no men or women of stature that are schooled in the art (and it surely is an art) of diplomacy. People who understand their subjects in minute detail, people who are so familiar with their spheres of interest that they are respected by their negotiating partners.

Our governments seem to have divided the world into nations that are with us or against us and it's never that simple.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:38 am

Far Rider wrote: You want a whole nother body to screw things up?
The more separate factions we can get in there to fight over their own special interests, the less "progress" we have to worry about.

As for the Hamas issue, I agree with Bothwell. The election was held satisfactory to our rules of fairness. We have to do business with them.

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:57 am

Far Rider wrote: Hey c'mon now I want that money for my own army! Why would you go and give it to Iraq, theres enough money floating around that country, they just need to keep better control of it!

You do?? Who're you planning to invade:-3 ?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:02 am

Astra wrote: You do?? Who're you planning to invade:-3 ?
he doesn't invade. He's just into X-treme paintball.

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:13 am

Far Rider wrote: Im just kiddin, I was after the money! It was a joke. I wouldnt sign on as a merc unless it was to save damsels, then I'd do it fer free.

It's ok!! I guessed that...the question was just my humour!!! If ever I'm in distress I'll call on you...hope you have some wings...feathery or otherwise!!!

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:15 am

Accountable wrote: he doesn't invade. He's just into X-treme paintball.

Recognisable by the X-treme bruising then...or do you wear lots of protective gear over there?

Astra · Post by **Astra** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:52 pm

Far Rider wrote: Heck we dont even wear a face mask.... we do it redneck style.... no shirt and shorts.............

Can't hurt my leathery hide anyway:wah:

No shirt?? No shorts?? You don't mean you do it .....bare??? Now where did you say you go to do it???