The Perpetual Repository of Alternative Facts

Post by **spot** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:03 am

"Youâ€™re saying itâ€™s a falsehood, and theyâ€™re giving â€“ Sean Spicer, our press secretary, gave alternative facts to that" - Kellyanne Conway to NBC, Sunday 22 January 2017.

We get more and more of this, I thought we might keep track.

Like when Susan Rice "inadvertently made false representations", or Paul Ryan gave "factual shortcuts" during the Republican convention after which one reporter was moved to observe "I marked at least seven or eight points I'm sure the fact checkers will have some opportunities to dispute if they want to go forward." and another "There will be issues with some of the facts. But it motivated people."

Sean Spicer on Washington metro usage: "That wasnâ€™t like we made them up out of thin air", and "I think sometimes we can disagree with the facts. Our intention is never to lie to you".

Really?

So today we have Kellyanne Conway. Again.â€œI bet itâ€™s brand new information to people that President Obama had a six-month ban on the Iraqi refugee program after two Iraqis came here to this country, were radicalised and they were the masterminds behind the Bowling Green massacre. Most people donâ€™t know that because it didnâ€™t get covered.â€

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... r-happened

And Paul Ryan chipping in afterwards, referring to "the attempted bombing in Bowling Green, where I live".

What do these people hope to gain? Or are they simply unaware that these unchecked inventions aren't true?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 5:51 am

"A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."

It gets repeated and repeated,amplified and amplified, drowning out the later rebuttals.

Part of the perfect storm.

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:26 am

I wonder how long before my fright-wing friends bring up the Bowling Green Massacre on Facebook.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:33 pm

LarsMac;1506250 wrote: I wonder how long before my fright-wing friends bring up the Bowling Green Massacre on Facebook.

My American daughter has done so already, but from the same point of view as yourself, definitely not right wing.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:35 pm

I wonder if a future executive order will come down demanding that the "Bowling Green Massacre" be added to the history books and taught in schools.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:39 pm

You can laugh.......wait until they make "Bowling Green Massacre " denial illegal.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:56 pm

Excuse me, weren't you rubbing your hands in glee at the idea of a Trump presidency? What the hell did you think was going to happen?

Post by **LarsMac** » Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:25 pm

Snooz;1506269 wrote: Excuse me, weren't you rubbing your hands in glee at the idea of a Trump presidency? What the hell did you think was going to happen?

You know how guys can be when they see a good fight coming.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:06 am

When you have two schmucks running for office you're bound to end up with a schmuck. Duh!

At least this schmuck has America debating. The democratic party has a rare and golden opportunity here to make substantive changes, however, it appears lately that that's not likely to happen unless there's a true revolt within the inner workings. The neoliberals have regained their traction and have its followers beginning to once again follow them just as blindly as Trump supporters follow Trump.

So, perhaps with more of The Donald, the left will come around to shake off the neoliberal fleas and have an honestly legitimate and sustained debate about American policy, domestic as well as foreign. Until then we might as well take our chances with Trump. At least my taxes should go down and my children will be relieved of this gross overcharge of healthcare they've been saddled with.

Jill Stein was the only legitimate candidate running for the presidency and the democratic party shut her out. Who's the next only choice, Chuck Schummer? Please!

Trump is the consequence of democrats living in la la land and shutting out voices of conscience. Please go bury your head somewhere else, we can no longer afford to look at and listen to your complacent asses.

Post by **spot** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:45 am

Snooz;1506269 wrote: Excuse me, weren't you rubbing your hands in glee at the idea of a Trump presidency? What the hell did you think was going to happen?I don't think we've seen anything happen yet, just a wild backlash from everyone who wants to get their boot in. The conventional hundred day honeymoon would have been far more gracious, there's plenty of time afterwards to be critical. What people seem to have missed is that the Trump White House has just triggered the biggest boom the American economy has ever experienced, all the stops are out, the pedal is on the floor, you're looking at eight years of whoosh. The Roaring Twenties are back.

Ahso!;1506273 wrote: Please go bury your head somewhere else, we can no longer afford to look at and listen to your complacent asses.No no no, we NEED Snooze here. Try kindness. Brew some coffee, cut a slice of cake, turn on the heating, it's not often she flits through.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:52 am

spot;1506278 wrote: No no no, we NEED Snooze here. Try kindness. Brew some coffee, cut a slice of cake, turn on the heating, it's not often she flits through.That wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I just felt a surge of adrenaline come on and had to spend it before it gave me agita.

She's much tuffer than most anyway.

eta: and, yes, caffeine and sugar is a good idea.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:51 am

I can't argue with your statement that the Democrats kinda did this to themselves.

We had an opportunity to upset the two-party apple cart and bring in some fresh new thinking to the white house, and we did accomplish upsetting the apple cart.

Now all we need is some thinking.

I suspect any hope of a healthcare system that is better than what we have now will depend on what side of the income line you find yourself.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:48 pm

LarsMac;1506250 wrote: I wonder how long before my fright-wing friends bring up the Bowling Green Massacre on Facebook.

Is THIS for real ?

Click to donate and it takes you to the ACLU site, not sure if it's serious or supposed to be satirical.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:41 pm

"Remember the Maine" ring any bells?

Pentagon Calls Out The White House Lie About War with Iran | Bluedot Daily

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 3:44 pm

Bruv;1506303 wrote: Is THIS for real ?

Click to donate and it takes you to the ACLU site, not sure if it's serious or supposed to be satirical.

I like that. Somebody at the ACLU was quick on the trigger. I am, indeed, impressed.

I am gonna share that on FB, and see how many frighters bite.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:15 pm

I just joined the ACLU, something I should have done ages ago. Thanks, Bruv.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:20 pm

LarsMac;1506310 wrote: "Remember the Maine" ring any bells?

Pentagon Calls Out The White House Lie About War with Iran | Bluedot Daily

Or the gulf of tonkin incident. How about the uss liberty which was actually sunk that one wasn';t fabricated but it was covered up.

superhorn · Post by **superhorn** » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:35 pm

How do you know when Trump, Spicer and other officials in the Trump administration are lying ?

When their lips are moving .

magentaflame · Post by **magentaflame** » Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:46 pm

LarsMac;1506310 wrote: "Remember the Maine" ring any bells?

Pentagon Calls Out The White House Lie About War with Iran | Bluedot Daily

I didn't know this had happened, that's funny as fu.ck............. actually, maybe not.

Post by **spot** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:54 am

Kellyanne is definitely a liability to the White House at this stage. As is Sean Spicer, but just at the moment it's Kellyanne with foot in mouth.

Speaking from the White House briefing room on the Fox & Friends TV show, she defended Ivanka Trumpâ€™s line of shoes, handbags, apparel and other accessories after department store Nordstrom decided to drop the brand.

"Go buy Ivankaâ€™s stuff is what I would tell you," she said, adding: "Itâ€™s a wonderful line. I own some of it â€¦ Iâ€™m going to give a free commercial here. Go buy it today, everybody. You can find it online."

[...] Iâ€™m not sure she knew it was illegal. She goes into automatic mode and hears what comes out her mouth at the same time everyone else does.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... ot-yet-out

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:29 pm

There's little the Dems can do right now, the Republicans control everything. There were two Rs that voted against Devos for education and that scrotum faced VP Pence broke the tie.

Spot, remember talking on the phone many years ago about the police action in Iraq and I suggested the best way to handle Bush II was with a bullet? Well...

Post by **spot** » Sat Feb 11, 2017 2:40 am

The only thing keeping you from a Pence Presidency is that blustering incompetent clown The Peeple elected, he's doing all of us a favor.

The Trump came into the Presidency like a red-eyed pit-bull guard dog stoked into a frenzy and then Sean Spicer happened and we gaped, Kellyanne happened and we howled with derision, the phone call with that chap in Peking happened and we realized Trump was all wind and no backbone. I say we keep him in office for as long as we can manage, he's ideally incapable, what more do you want.

I spent a happy hour browsing http://www.crewsmostcorrupt.org/mostcorrupt which, if you haven't, you might like to. That car salesman from Florida, for example, or all the inventive ways of getting money into your election fund just so you can pay theaters to put your daughter on stage, or the spectacularly expensive holiday in Paris France. And the insane lengths both Houses go to when refusing to find a blatant ethics complaint proven. Would you like a thread on Vern, perhaps?

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:35 am

Not to be undone we have them here as well.

Paul Nuttall claims spike in hate crimes following Brexit is 'fabricated' | The Independent

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:54 am

We have a fair few of "them". Look at the Have Your Say threads on the BBC website, politics section in particular. Very little of it is trolling, it's extreme far right political activism: Immigration is white genocide, torture works, make London white again (on a rugby thread masquerading as a rugby comment) hard brexit and WTO rules.

Post by **LarsMac** » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:07 pm

Wish High Threshold was still around. Would love to get his take on Trump's announcement of the terrorism in Sweden.

Post by **spot** » Mon Mar 13, 2017 7:54 am

spot;1506582 wrote: Kellyanne happened and we howled with derision

CONWAY: There was an article that week that talked about how you can surveil people through their phones, through their â€” certainly through their television sets, any number of different ways. And microwaves that turn into cameras, et cetera. We know that is just a fact of modern life.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... icrowaves/

What on earth is wrong with KellyAnne's mental process? Can anyone make the slightest sense out of "microwaves that turn into cameras"? This is rather like Dubya's total inability to express himself in lucid English? I'm not convinced that it is, I think KellyAnne just misunderstands stuff she hears and then spouts the resulting idiocy to the extent that she can believe "We know that is just a fact of modern life".

Post by **spot** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:10 am

I seem to recall UKIP's current Leader Paul Nuttall pulled out of the Stoke bye-election. Is he a candidate anywhere for the upcoming? Did "From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror" evaporate?

Those retiring make for an acceptable story over breakfast. Sir Eric Pickles to quit as MP. He is one of several high-profile MPs who are standing down, including George Osborne and Alan Johnson. But that's off-topic, unlike the first paragraph.

Post by **spot** » Sat Apr 29, 2017 2:28 pm

Here he goes!UKIP leader Paul Nuttall is to stand in Boston and Skegness in Lincolnshire in June's General Election.

General election 2017: UKIP leader Paul Nuttall to stand in Boston and Skegness - BBC News

Now we might get a straight answer to the Hillsborough Stadium equivocations.

FourPart · Post by **FourPart** » Sun Apr 30, 2017 12:50 pm

Just how familiar he is with his constituency to be.

His excuse is that this is a Parliamentary election, not a Council one. Just what has that got to with it?

Ridge grills Paul Nuttall on Sky as Ukip leader 'has no idea what Boston looks like' | Politics | News | Express.co.uk

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon May 01, 2017 4:02 am

Boston has a high percentage of Poles, working in the local highly conservative agriculture industry,.......................so ripe for UKIP ?

Post by **spot** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:15 am

He appears to have stood down as UKIP leader, that deranged lying fantasist Nuttall. Whether he cleaned up his Hillsborough claims first I've no idea.

The new chap is Henry Bolton and he sounds a bit Conservative. Who is new UKIP leader Henry Bolton? - BBC News

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:37 pm

Just like musical chairs.

Post by **spot** » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:02 pm

spot;1512905 wrote: He appears to have stood down as UKIP leader, that deranged lying fantasist Nuttall. Whether he cleaned up his Hillsborough claims first I've no idea.

I have an observation, if I may.

The phrase "I watched the events of that day unfold with horror" appears in only one other context on the Internet, and it's dated a year before Paul Nuttall's implosion. The man leading the review into the circumstances surrounding the death of Bailey Gwynne last night described the incident as a â€œdreadful tragedy that has moved an entire community.â€

[...] Last night he told the Press and Journal he was â€œcommittedâ€ to making sure the review was fair but added that much was still to be decided about its scope.

He said: â€œI want to convey my absolute determination to be independent and impartial in this review.

â€œI am from a different part of Scotland and am not connected to the north-east, although, like everyone, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... ey-gwynne/

That's my bolding, for emphasis. The article's dated March 2016. Nuttall's use is from June 2017.

Who used the phrase first?

The link between the two uses is that "Andrew Lowe, who has been intimately involved with high profile investigations across the UK including the Hillsborough disaster, was appointed yesterday to lead the independent multi-agency review" the article refers to.

Two Hillsborough sources, one text. And the one bit Paul Nuttall stands by as factual is that "From the upper tier of the Leppings Lane End of the Hillsborough Stadium, I watched the events of that day unfold with horror."

What's he doing now, out of interest? Anyone know?

Post by **spot** » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:23 am

"Suspicious doesn't begin to describe what likely transpired this morning," said Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif, noting that it came as Japan's prime minister met Iran's supreme leader to discuss how to ease regional tensions.

Gulf of Oman tanker 'attacks': What we know

And the idea that there's a country somewhere which just slapped both the Iranian and Japanese leaders? Or that the Japanese crew reported airborne projectiles and punctures above the waterline while "the US military alleged that Iranian limpet mines were responsible"? I'd say there's a lot of dust being thrown in the eyes of the paying public, that's what I'd say.

How about adding a bit more dust...

Pope warns oil bosses of climate threat - well there you are, it was his Holiness behind the explosions. He has a Jesuit commando unit for that, you know.

Or... Schoolchildren go on strike across world over climate crisis - see, it was Greta Thunberg's paramilitary wing.

I think I might have a red peaked cap made at the local print shop with "It's the Americans, stupid" in big white letters across the front, it will answer most crises.

Post by **spot** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 9:14 am

The President has put a Christmas present onto the Internet for anyone still doubting his sanity.

Remarks by President Trump at Turning Point USA Student Action Summit | West Palm Beach, FL Issued on: December 22, 2019

It's well worth the time. End to end, please.

The only question left is whether his audience is mocking or equally demented. I know which I find more credible.

At least America stopped killing foreigners on his watch. Net gain all round. Mad as a hatter is a big step up from unrestrained slaughter.

Post by **LarsMac** » Wed Dec 25, 2019 10:08 am

spot;1529105 wrote: The President has put a Christmas present onto the Internet for anyone still doubting his sanity.

Remarks by President Trump at Turning Point USA Student Action Summit | West Palm Beach, FL Issued on: December 22, 2019

It's well worth the time. End to end, please.

The only question left is whether his audience is mocking or equally demented. I know which I find more credible.

At least America stopped killing foreigners on his watch. Net gain all round. Mad as a hatter is a big step up from unrestrained slaughter.

I tried reading that. I really did, but somewhere along the way, I suddenly found myself out in the field screaming. my wife says that I started rambling about the house muttering. She opened the door and I wandered outside.

I think I will forgo trying to read the rest of it.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:54 am

spot;1529105 wrote:

The only question left is whether his audience is mocking or equally demented. I know which I find more credible.

The correct answer is equally demented.

Ahso! · Post by **Ahso!** » Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:39 am

AnneBoleyn;1529126 wrote: The correct answer is equally demented.My take is that they are more desperate than demented. Desperation causes one to be consumed by lies such as those that tRump tells. Whether those desperations are imagined or real makes little difference. tRump appeals to those desperations by selling his brand of snake oil, wrapped in fearmongering and misrepresenting of facts, or straight out lying. He knows as any seasoned marketer does, that all you have to do is keep saying it, and get just a few others to repeat it, and it will become a "truth" in the minds of desperate people. And then, since they've made it to the next day relatively unscathed, the lies as truths are reinforced.

Reading the text as far as I did, I was impressed at how well tRump does his bit. It sounds goofy to people who are not desperate, but he's good at what he does. He's what road people refer to as a Carnie, which means he's a Barker like people who work at carnivals or circuses do. He knows exactly what he's doing. But tRump is a one-trick-poney. He can't manage people, he can't multitask, and he can't keep his mouth closed for more than a few seconds. He imagines life as a carnival where he's barking good deals behind the curtain at and for everyone.

Post by **spot** » Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:31 am

I'll drop this here if I may, we shall return to it in June. I claim Rishi Sunak has blatantly and scandalously lied, the which claim I shall then demonstrate to be true.

The NHS will get "whatever resources it needs" to cope with a coronavirus epidemic, Chancellor Rishi Sunak has said ahead of Wednesday's Budget.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51790242

Post by **spot** » Tue Oct 01, 2024 2:28 pm

We all remember the dodgy dossier?

Here's a new instalment: PM, this afternoon, Evan Davies interviewing the unhinged John Bolton, sometime National Security Adviser.

Bolton (my transcription from the broadcast): "What would you expect the US to do if 300 ballistic missiles were aimed at London right now? [...] what if you faced an attack from 300 ballistic missiles, what would you be saying now? [...] by the way, just to make the point, Iran's intermediate range ballistic missile capabilities could launch against European cities including London".

No they can't, Mr Bolton. That's one of those alternative facts you keep trying to slide into the public perception. It's what we in Britain would call an unvarnished lie. It is an untruth. It is false. You conflate snippets into an implication which you know perfectly well to be untrue.

Here's the BBC graphic showing the range of Iran's ballistic missiles:

: missile range iran.jpg (162.71 KiB) Viewed 1130 times

For reference, Teheran to London is 4400 km (2700 miles). The only Western European country within range is Greece.

You infested the Bush administration as an unprincipled scoundrel, Mr Bolton, and you clearly remain one.

By the way, just to make the point, America's ballistic missile capabilities could launch against European cities including both London and Moscow. Fact, not fiction.

Post by **spot** » Fri Dec 27, 2024 1:04 pm

"soon to be known as the governor of Canada"...

and another instance: President-elect Donald Trump took a jab at Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Tuesday, calling him a "governor" and referring to Canada as a "great state".

... And Greenland, if I remember.

President-elect Donald Trump has once again repeated his desires for U.S. territorial expansion. In a message delivered on Christmas Day, Trump took aim at the Panama Canal and Greenland, while also addressing Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau directly.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/tr ... r-AA1wuleS

Our lad is seriously looking for the front page again.

And... Panama? I thought President Carter had liberated Panama back in the 70s. It's a bit late in the day to change your mind, America.