Bryn Mawr wrote: ↑Fri Dec 15, 2023 3:42 am
What legal grounds are they using to argue for a suspension of the trial?
Not sure of the legal grounds, but the argument seems to be that the trial would be right in the middle of the Campaign cycle offering the most egregious example of "Election Interference" in history.
The Prosecutor "brushed off that idea, pointing out that prosecutors all over the country are always investigating people for various crimes and that they do not stop doing so just because someone runs for office."
“If the prosecutor finds that they violated the law, they have an ethical duty to bring forth charges and so this is a silly notion to me that because one runs from office that your criminal case would stop,” she said.
Totally agree, the court case started first, if he didn't want it to interfere with the election then don't stand
LarsMac wrote: ↑Thu Dec 21, 2023 4:19 pm
Well, I'm rather proud of my current Home State this week. Colorado Supreme Court rules Trump is disqualified from presidency for Jan. 6 riot
The paragraph in question:
Section 3
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
So, this paragraph does not specifically include the Offices of President and Vice President as being included. A thin - VERY Thin - line in the sand. But, Mr T has attempted to latch onto that line.
Also, of course the constitution forbids legal prosecution of a sitting President. Trump claims that he is immune to prosecution because during the time in question, he was, of course the sitting President.
That, however only forbids prosecution while the president is in office, and the Articles of Impeachment would address that issue, were he still the sitting President. Once he was relieved from office by the inauguration of now President Biden, that no longer applies.
There are all manner pro-Trumpers who try to latch on to all of that. I've have learned to keep my mouth shut in public to avoid confrontations with these people in hopes of going on breathing for a while longer. They are not deep thinkers, and most of them are armed. [sigh]
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
LarsMac wrote: ↑Sat Dec 23, 2023 3:52 pm
The paragraph in question:
Section 3
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
So, this paragraph does not specifically include the Offices of President and Vice President as being included. A thin - VERY Thin - line in the sand. But, Mr T has attempted to latch onto that line.
Also, of course the constitution forbids legal prosecution of a sitting President. Trump claims that he is immune to prosecution because during the time in question, he was, of course the sitting President.
That, however only forbids prosecution while the president is in office, and the Articles of Impeachment would address that issue, were he still the sitting President. Once he was relieved from office by the inauguration of now President Biden, that no longer applies.
There are all manner pro-Trumpers who try to latch on to all of that. I've have learned to keep my mouth shut in public to avoid confrontations with these people in hopes of going on breathing for a while longer. They are not deep thinkers, and most of them are armed. [sigh]
The question then becomes "has he taken an oath to support the Constitution of the United States" which he obviously has - as he has, just as obviously, held an office, civil or military, under the United States.
Yessir. He plans to force the courts to spell it out to the minutest of detail.
The Latest from his legal team:
From NDC News, via Microdoft
rom Former President Donald Trump on Saturday demanded that the DC Circuit Court of Appeals toss the federal election interference case against him, arguing again that presidential immunity protects him from prosecution.
“The structure of our government, the text of the Constitution and its early commentators, common-law immunity doctrines, our political history, the Supreme Court’s analogous immunity doctrines, and the policy considerations rooted in the separation of powers all dictate that no President, current or former, may be criminally prosecuted for his official acts unless he is first impeached and convicted by the Senate," Trump lawyers wrote in a brief to the DC Circuit Court of Appeals.
Continue reading
"Nor may a President face criminal prosecution based on conduct for which he was acquitted by the U.S. Senate," he added. "The indictment against President Trump is unlawful and unconstitutional. It must be dismissed.”The Supreme Court on Friday sidestepped special counsel Jack Smith's request asking the justices to quickly decide whether Trump has broad immunity for his attempts to overturn his 2020 election loss amid his presidential term.
SIGH
More:...
Because the Supreme Court decided against intervening in the case, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit will hear oral arguments on Jan. 9.
After that court rules, the Supreme Court could swiftly decide whether to take up the case.
In his request to the Supreme Court, Smith said the case “presents a fundamental question at the heart of our democracy: whether a former President is absolutely immune from federal prosecution for crimes committed while in office” in a court filing this month.
Trump’s lawyers pushed back in court papers, arguing that Smith had given “no compelling reason” why the Supreme Court should immediately step in ahead of the appeals court.
Reacting to the Supreme Court’s move on Friday, Trump slammed Smith’s initial request for the court to step in, decrying it as a “desperate attempt to short circuit our Great Constitution” in a post to his Truth Social platform.
In his post, Trump also said that he was “looking forward” to arguments before the appeals court next month while reiterating baseless claims about the 2020 presidential election.
Earlier this month, U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan, who is presiding over the election interference case, denied Trump’s motion to dismiss his indictment on presidential immunity and constitutional grounds. The case is on hold while Trump appeals the decision.
Trump’s lawyers argue that his role in questioning the result of the election was within the “outer perimeter” of his official responsibilities as president, citing a 1982 Supreme Court ruling about presidential immunity. Therefore, under Supreme Court precedent, Trump is immune from prosecution, his lawyers argue.
Trump’s lawyers also point to the Senate’s acquittal of Trump following impeachment proceedings over his role in events that led to the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol, arguing that the former president can’t face separate prosecution for the same actions.
Smith has argued that Trump’s attempts to overturn the election were unrelated to his official duties as president and that the Constitution’s language on impeachment permits separate criminal proceedings even if the president is acquitted.
A federal grand jury in Washington indicted Trump on four charges in August: conspiracy to defraud the U.S., conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction, and conspiracy against the right to vote and to have one’s vote counted. Trump pleaded not guilty at his arraignment hearing.
Trump faces three other criminal prosecutions but remains the frontrunner in the polls for the Republican nomination.
This article was originally published on NBCNews.com
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
What do you all think about Trump's conviction? Will it affect his chances of running for president again?
Trump definitely plans to appeal the conviction. According to this law site, he could use the fact that there were significant legal errors during his trial. If the appeal is successful, the conviction could be overturned.
It's interesting to see how this legal battle unfolds.
Nonetheless, he said Harris was qualified to be president as well, although he misnamed her in the endorsement. “I wouldn’t have picked vice-president Trump to be vice-president, if she’s not qualified to be president,” he said.
That gaffe was compounded by the fact that he had introduced the Ukrainian president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, as “President Putin” just hours earlier, before correcting himself and saying “we’re going to beat Putin”.
If President Biden refuses to stand down and let someone else run in his place, it's odds-on President Trump will win his second term.
And if If President Biden does step aside and allow an alternative Democratic candidate, it's also odds-on President Trump will win his second term.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Nobody else is doing this to America, it's entirely self-inflicted. The only outcome which would electrify America and lead to the sunny uplands would be the election of Kamala Harris, and I think Biden has blocked that for too long for it to happen, and even if she ran I don't think America is sufficiently competent to elect her. 115 days is not enough time to make that possible.
We will, I suspect, end up with a second Trump presidency, the world will sit back with its popcorn, Ukrainians will finally realize what a catastrophic set of decisions its government took in trying to turn its back on Russia. I can't see the Pentagon being enthused either. On the plus side we'll get Trump without the accompanying Covid.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
There is, of course, an alternative future in which President Biden is re-elected, inaugurated, serves a few weeks for the record and then retires through infirmity in favour of his Vice-President.
It would allow Kamala Harris eleven years as President and retirement at 71. And while I would very much like to see that happen, I don't give much for its chances.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
President Trump's electoral chance for a second term got a significant boost yesterday. That, I would imagine, is incontestable.
“There is no figure in American history at least in the modern era - maybe since Lincoln - who’s been so vilified and really persecuted by media and Hollywood elites, political figures, even the legal system,” Johnson said on NBC’s Today show.
That's possibly true too. The legal system didn't really persecute President Obama, so the qualification excludes him.
Nobody should wish anything other than a speedy recovery for the luckiest candidate in all of American history.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
There is, it turns out, a photographic record on the occasion of the attempted assassination of President Trump - I have a copy on my screen as I type. Associated Press photographer Evan Vucci's image will, I suspect, be counted among the greatest pieces of photo-journalism in world history, up there with Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima by Joe Rosenthal, also of the Associated Press.
If you bring Tiepolo's Descent from the Cross to mind, but with Christ's eyes open and his fist in the air as blood spreads down his face from the open wound, you have a fair estimate of its explosive nature. It has the Stars and Stripes raised in the background, in sharp focus against an uninterrupted blue sky, near where the original painter situated the Cross, and the security detail in a circle as they lower the risen Messiah to the the steps leading down from the platform.
Subsequent events have taken full advantage of the attempt on his life. JD Vance (39, "Sauron" to his friends) has been declared by acclamation as Trump's running mate at yesterday's Milwaukee Republican Convention, immediately before Trump became the official Presidential candidate for November having reached an unassailable lead in the primaries. A frenzied audience screamed "Fight Fight Fight" in unison when Trump appeared on the floor, wearing a bandage over his ear covering the damaged cartilage remaining from the 140 yard rifle shot at last Saturday's rally.
President Biden's interview two days before the shooting, saying "we’re done talking about the debate. It’s time to put Trump in a bullseye", can't be erased from the public record and was clearly a catastrophic hostage to fortune from the moment it was uttered. Those are not the words of a candidate looking to raise the tone of the campaign, they're incomprehensibly self-destructive.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
I'm completely baffled by this brain-dead administration in the White House.
There's an assassination attempt, President Biden goes out for his first subsequent campaign speech and what idiocy do we get? Confrontational "we need more gun control". How exactly is that supposed to help reset the adversarial tone? Where's the priorities in this? It's knee-jerk partisan stuff. Whether it's justified or not is irrelevant, it's argumentative, it's not helpful, it's point-scoring at a time when scoring points is not the sensible step to take. It is a wasted opportunity.
There's a world of difference between "please stop killing each other" and "ban owning dirt-cheap overpowered firearms". Either it's President Biden who's tone-deaf or it's his advisers, but someone in that chain has to rethink what politics is about.
As for anyone possessing a rifle or ammunition who fails to secure it adequately, they should be jailed into the next century. That's just common sense and not partisan at all.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
"I stand before you in this arena only by the grace of almighty God." We'll be declaring his mother immaculate before the election is out.
Trump promised to lower inflation and “end every single international crisis”, without mentioning anything specific about how he would do so other than drilling for oil and closing the border.
“If you took the 10 worst presidents in the history of the United States, think of it. The 10 worst. Added them up, they will not have done the damage that Biden has done,” he said, pledging to only use the president’s name once in his speech.
Much of his convention speech resembled the freewheeling stump speeches Trump has become known for. He pledged “the largest deportation operation in the history of our country” while reciting falsehoods about who was coming into the United States. Claiming that countries were emptying asylums to send people to the US, Trump veered into a bizarre segue about Hannibal Lecter, the cannibal villain from the film Silence of the Lambs.
“Has anyone seen Silence of the Lambs, the late great Hannibal Lecter, he’d love to have you for dinner,” Trump says.
It's pitiable dross but that's not going to stand in the man's way. God has spoken, the candidate is resurrected from the grave, book your ticket for the parade.
It would be timely to recall that this repellently smug dotard is asking to be placed in the office of President of the USA until he's 82. And a half.
Could we not settle for JD Vance immediately and get that over with instead?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
If President Biden is not fit to run then surely he can accept he's not fit to finish his term, and allow Kamala Harris to go into the election as President Harris on an equal rank-footing with her competitor.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
If President Biden is not fit to run then surely he can accept he's not fit to finish his term, and allow Kamala Harris to go into the election as President Harris on an equal rank-footing with her competitor.
Given her history I do not see that she has any chance of being elected anyway.
Bryn Mawr wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 4:04 pmGiven her history I do not see that she has any chance of being elected anyway.
I haven't the slightest idea what character flaw would lead her to run in the first place. One would have to think one was the best person for the job - strike 1. One would have to believe running the country well would improve the lot of human existence across the planet - strike 2. And then there's Alice...
“one can’t believe impossible things.”
“I daresay you haven’t had much practice,” said the Queen. “When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I’ve believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
I am finding the shift from Biden to Harris to be rather exciting. The Democratic Party has re-awakened. Sleepy Joe, as Trump liked to call him, has changed the game. I particularly like him doing it right after the Rethuglican Party convention closed with their best Anti-Biden Strategy all lined up and ready for launch.
This election is going to be FUN!
(A good thing, since it could well prove to be our last if we let The Donald back in to the White House.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
It's not apparent to me how much political experience her four years as Vice-President has brought her. Perhaps I reed the rong papers.
Given a say - which of course I haven't - I think she'd make a far better President than President Trump would. I too would like to find out. I'm not sure how to shut the noise out if she actually wins though, there will be a great deal of angry shouting.
I see Washington just rioted at this week's guest speaker.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
It's very possible that Biden and the Dems have had that lined up for a while, and if so, BRAVO!
I've been holding my breath for a few months now, and was astounded that they even agreed to the that debate. Public speaking is not Joe's strong hand, these days. And Harris has been just sitting back, waiting for the power shift.
We'll see how it plays out.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
Out of interest, does anyone actually believe President Trump's commitment would be honoured if he wins his second term?
"Under the Trump administration, we are going to be paying for that treatment," Trump said in an interview with NBC News. "Or we're going to be mandating that the insurance company pay."
Trump soon announced the policy at a rally in Michigan, telling a crowd that "your government will pay for or your insurance company will be mandated to pay for all costs associated with IVF treatment."
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left. When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious. Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
