What I would like to know is........... With the pushing of the sales of electric powered vehicles and the intended phasing out of petrol and possibly diesel powered vehicles, with engineers warning to be careful around these electric powered vehicles in case of severe shock ! What on earth is going to happen in an incident of a vehicle crash, particularly if somebody is trapped in wreckage ? Will the fire brigade have to wait for a qualified electrical engineer to make the vehicle safe, before letting rescuers get to a seriously injured person ? The time factor here is just a bit important !
I suppose I am worrying for nothing, but this thought has been on my mind for some time now. Has anybody else considered this potential problem ? I'd love to know how such a situation will be solved ! Is there anybody who is 'well-off' enough to be the owner of one of these electric vehicles, who perhaps has not even thought about such a problem?
I shall hang on to my diesel car until I have a satisfactory answer and also if the price of such vehicles drops considerably.
I really cannot understand how authorities can think that the manufacture of electric vehicles and the batteries needed for them will cut considerably the 'carbon footprint' when factories are needed to make these things and it's a cert. that toxic stuff will be belched into the air during such manufacture ! Answers on a postcard, please, to HM Government, as soon as you like !
Electric vehicles, are they safe????
Electric vehicles, are they safe????
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
Re: Electric vehicles, are they safe????
Hi Gill,
I don't think there are any answers. What might exist are reasoned suggestions which are either convincing or clearly wrong, but to be clearly wrong you'd need alternative suggestions which are more convincing and less clearly wrong.
Here's something to start discussing the problem. It might consist of two parts. Here's part 1.
Any car, electric or fossil-fueled, could eventually be self-driven by an automated system and not by an occupant. The reason for wanting to do that is to reduce the number of deaths and injuries on the roads by, for the sake of a number, a factor of ten. Reducing deaths directly caused by collisions from the pre-Covid figure of 1,752 a year in the UK to 175, or serious injury to all road users from 25,945 to 2,595. That is undoubtedly a reasonable target, and I'd be happy to see that implemented. The firms aiming to get to that target are all electric-vehicle companies. Nobody at all is trying to do that with any liquid-fueled vehicle and nobody is even going to try.
So, this leads to a question. Nobody is going to have a pleasant experience in a major collision, it's painful and traumatic whether you end up dead or just severely injured. That will be true whether you're being electrocuted or torn apart by sharp metal edges or burned to death by burning fuel. I expect an exploding fish and chip shop with a half ton of burning oil might be just as nasty, though neither come close to being tied to a stake in 16th century Oxford and burned to death surrounded by a crowd of onlookers - one rarely gets the chance to demonstrate bravery during a car crash. The question is, why would you prefer on over another?
As for protecting emergency workers, I expect it's swings and roundabouts. You might have to wear a grounded conductive layer built into your protective clothing but at least you won't be next to a 40 litre fuel tank exploding.
Part 2 is why to go electric before autonomous driving becomes standard practice. You'd need a good estimate of how many citizens of the UK have their lifespan significantly shortened by car pollution. Here's a reasonable ballpark figure, courtesy of ChatGPT: "Some estimates suggest that road transport might be responsible for up to a third of fine particulate matter (PM2.5) in urban areas in the UK and approximately half of the nitrogen dioxide (NO2) levels. If we apply these proportions to the overall premature deaths due to air pollution, we might estimate that between 9,000 and 18,000 premature deaths could be attributable to air pollution from road vehicles. But again, this is a very rough estimate, and actual numbers could be lower or higher.". That's roughly five times the number of deaths through collisions. The figure drops proportionately as an increasing percentage of vehicles go electric. There's a residual number of premature deaths due to tyre dust which would also need addressing but that's a lot smaller.
So, that's a long-term and a medium-term view of your question, and both seem to suggest that electric is the preferred route. Switching refilling stations from liquid to electric charging is a hurdle too, but improved battery technology ought to bring the time needed to refuel an electric vehicle to the same as the current pumps and Bob's your uncle.
If you can find any pictures of any of Tesla's battery Gigafactories belching toxic fumes into the desert air, I'd be extremely surprised. They're much cleaner than any car servicing depot or oil refinery.
Oh - the short-term view. Avoid buying an electric vehicle like the plague, they are hideously impractical. The only people pushing them work for dealerships. Hybrids that never have to be plugged in away from home are cheaper to run than liquid single-fuel cars though. You can still drive them a long way cross-country with just normal refueling at a pump.
And one final question - why do you think HM Government is responsible for any of these trends? Post-Covid electric vehicles are all entirely commercial ventures.
I don't think there are any answers. What might exist are reasoned suggestions which are either convincing or clearly wrong, but to be clearly wrong you'd need alternative suggestions which are more convincing and less clearly wrong.
Here's something to start discussing the problem. It might consist of two parts. Here's part 1.
Any car, electric or fossil-fueled, could eventually be self-driven by an automated system and not by an occupant. The reason for wanting to do that is to reduce the number of deaths and injuries on the roads by, for the sake of a number, a factor of ten. Reducing deaths directly caused by collisions from the pre-Covid figure of 1,752 a year in the UK to 175, or serious injury to all road users from 25,945 to 2,595. That is undoubtedly a reasonable target, and I'd be happy to see that implemented. The firms aiming to get to that target are all electric-vehicle companies. Nobody at all is trying to do that with any liquid-fueled vehicle and nobody is even going to try.
So, this leads to a question. Nobody is going to have a pleasant experience in a major collision, it's painful and traumatic whether you end up dead or just severely injured. That will be true whether you're being electrocuted or torn apart by sharp metal edges or burned to death by burning fuel. I expect an exploding fish and chip shop with a half ton of burning oil might be just as nasty, though neither come close to being tied to a stake in 16th century Oxford and burned to death surrounded by a crowd of onlookers - one rarely gets the chance to demonstrate bravery during a car crash. The question is, why would you prefer on over another?
As for protecting emergency workers, I expect it's swings and roundabouts. You might have to wear a grounded conductive layer built into your protective clothing but at least you won't be next to a 40 litre fuel tank exploding.
Part 2 is why to go electric before autonomous driving becomes standard practice. You'd need a good estimate of how many citizens of the UK have their lifespan significantly shortened by car pollution. Here's a reasonable ballpark figure, courtesy of ChatGPT: "Some estimates suggest that road transport might be responsible for up to a third of fine particulate matter (PM2.5) in urban areas in the UK and approximately half of the nitrogen dioxide (NO2) levels. If we apply these proportions to the overall premature deaths due to air pollution, we might estimate that between 9,000 and 18,000 premature deaths could be attributable to air pollution from road vehicles. But again, this is a very rough estimate, and actual numbers could be lower or higher.". That's roughly five times the number of deaths through collisions. The figure drops proportionately as an increasing percentage of vehicles go electric. There's a residual number of premature deaths due to tyre dust which would also need addressing but that's a lot smaller.
So, that's a long-term and a medium-term view of your question, and both seem to suggest that electric is the preferred route. Switching refilling stations from liquid to electric charging is a hurdle too, but improved battery technology ought to bring the time needed to refuel an electric vehicle to the same as the current pumps and Bob's your uncle.
If you can find any pictures of any of Tesla's battery Gigafactories belching toxic fumes into the desert air, I'd be extremely surprised. They're much cleaner than any car servicing depot or oil refinery.
Oh - the short-term view. Avoid buying an electric vehicle like the plague, they are hideously impractical. The only people pushing them work for dealerships. Hybrids that never have to be plugged in away from home are cheaper to run than liquid single-fuel cars though. You can still drive them a long way cross-country with just normal refueling at a pump.
And one final question - why do you think HM Government is responsible for any of these trends? Post-Covid electric vehicles are all entirely commercial ventures.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Re: Electric vehicles, are they safe????
Well I suppose I asked for that Mr. Spot !
Yes it was a full answer, but I feel it did not actually answer my question in the end. As there are quite a few electric vehicles now running around and handled by human beings, there is still a question to be answered isn't there?
There is bound to be a 'transition period' when vehicles will gradually change to 'self propelled' rather than 'human driven' vehicles, so what would be the safety action adopted by the various emergency services in the event of a bad accident during this 'transition' time ?
Maybe there will be a sort of wait till there have been a few deaths by electrocution, before action is taken to minimise such a problem ? That seems to have been the attitude up to now over any difficulties that may crop up during any radical changes - wait and see how bad things get before problem solving is attempted ? Playing 'catch up' as usual.
I would still lke to hear from anybody who actually owns/runs an electric vehicle, and whether they have wondered if there is a danger of electrocution in the event of a crash.
As regards the avoiding of having to recharge on a journey by vehicles that charge as they drive along, I would be more interested in a self-charging vehicle as a far more practical enterprise. But there again, the price would have to come down drastically and batteries would have to be developed to be far more practical with regard to weight and room taken up.
Yes it was a full answer, but I feel it did not actually answer my question in the end. As there are quite a few electric vehicles now running around and handled by human beings, there is still a question to be answered isn't there?
There is bound to be a 'transition period' when vehicles will gradually change to 'self propelled' rather than 'human driven' vehicles, so what would be the safety action adopted by the various emergency services in the event of a bad accident during this 'transition' time ?
Maybe there will be a sort of wait till there have been a few deaths by electrocution, before action is taken to minimise such a problem ? That seems to have been the attitude up to now over any difficulties that may crop up during any radical changes - wait and see how bad things get before problem solving is attempted ? Playing 'catch up' as usual.
I would still lke to hear from anybody who actually owns/runs an electric vehicle, and whether they have wondered if there is a danger of electrocution in the event of a crash.
As regards the avoiding of having to recharge on a journey by vehicles that charge as they drive along, I would be more interested in a self-charging vehicle as a far more practical enterprise. But there again, the price would have to come down drastically and batteries would have to be developed to be far more practical with regard to weight and room taken up.
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
Re: Electric vehicles, are they safe????
The electric vehicles now running around and driven by human beings are reducing the particulate air pollution and bringing down deaths and serious injury from that. If those people saved exceed the number of occupants or emergency workers electrocuted by batteries I'd say it was a net win.
Anyway - here's a google search trying to find any emergency responder electrocuted by an electric car. You can find the original article by googling a string of the quote if you need more detail. I've not left any deaths out, just speculative what-if articles by the tabloids and "regulators warn of" pages. The google search I used is ""responder electrocuted electric car",
A man has been killed and his girlfriend injured when when they both received electric shocks as he plugged in his mobile phone charger.
And that's it. I can't find a single death worldwide from electrocution following a car crash. Just lots and lots of opinion about how bad it would be if it happened.
If you can find one, that's a different matter. Add it to the thread, but I couldn't.
Anyway - here's a google search trying to find any emergency responder electrocuted by an electric car. You can find the original article by googling a string of the quote if you need more detail. I've not left any deaths out, just speculative what-if articles by the tabloids and "regulators warn of" pages. The google search I used is ""responder electrocuted electric car",
A man has been killed and his girlfriend injured when when they both received electric shocks as he plugged in his mobile phone charger.
And that's it. I can't find a single death worldwide from electrocution following a car crash. Just lots and lots of opinion about how bad it would be if it happened.
If you can find one, that's a different matter. Add it to the thread, but I couldn't.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Re: Electric vehicles, are they safe????
I have noticed that this particular problem has not been covered by media etc. I wonder why that is. Maybe manufacturers of electric vehicles don't want to put people off the purchase of such items. Maybe they know more than they are saying ? Until these vehicles are made safe from potential electrocution, I do think it is irresponsible of the Government to say they will be phasing out petrol/diesel vehicles in X number of years time.
My concerns have not been minimised by what has been written so far.
Thinking on about all this, perhaps it is a way of reducing the over-population of our rapidly reducing land which we used to call Great Britain?
My concerns have not been minimised by what has been written so far.
Thinking on about all this, perhaps it is a way of reducing the over-population of our rapidly reducing land which we used to call Great Britain?
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
Re: Electric vehicles, are they safe????
If you think the UK tabloids wouldn't print the story on their front pages if they ever had one, then that's what you think. I can't think why though. They'd print naked pictures of their own daughters if they thought it would sell more copies, they are totally interested in revenue. Deaths from electrocution on a motorway would clearly sell lots more copies.
Use my earlier search and you'll find hundreds of opinion pieces about how bad it would be, they're all over the tabloids so the car makers didn't have the clout to stop those anti-electric articles. What there isn't, so far as I can see, is any occasion when any death through electrocution happened after a crash.
Liquid-fuel car fire deaths, on the other hand, are ten a penny. This, for example was, as far as I can tell, yesterday afternoon, and the unconscious single occupant was successfully rescued by an extremely brave intervention. Petrol, not battery. What we all know is that many other occupants are not so lucky.
Use my earlier search and you'll find hundreds of opinion pieces about how bad it would be, they're all over the tabloids so the car makers didn't have the clout to stop those anti-electric articles. What there isn't, so far as I can see, is any occasion when any death through electrocution happened after a crash.
Liquid-fuel car fire deaths, on the other hand, are ten a penny. This, for example was, as far as I can tell, yesterday afternoon, and the unconscious single occupant was successfully rescued by an extremely brave intervention. Petrol, not battery. What we all know is that many other occupants are not so lucky.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Re: Electric vehicles, are they safe????
Most automobiles are as safe as their operators.
Just sayin'
Just sayin'
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Re: Electric vehicles, are they safe????
Here we are - today's Guardian...
Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars
Japanese firm believes it could make a solid-state battery with a range of 745 miles that charges in 10 minutes
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ctric-cars
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.