We Were Warned in 1963: Has Communist Ideology Overtaken America?

[xfrodobagginsx]

We Were Warned in 1963: Has Communist Ideology Overtaken America? |



We Were Warned in 1963: Has Communist Ideology Overtaken America?



Posted on February 1, 2013 by Dean Garrison

Has Communist Ideology Overtaken America? Education is crucial. Today I want to share two very interesting lists with you, and sickleflagrather than adding an extensive amount of my commentary, I want to give you the chance to examine the facts for yourself. It is my opinion that many communist goals have already been accomplished. I also believe that advancement has been made in other areas. But, you owe it to yourself to do your own research. I believe not only in the freedom of speech, but also in the responsibility of free thought. So please don’t take my word for it. Examine the facts for yourself.

Again, I want to share two lists with you. The first is a list that was entered into 1963 Congressional Record. The second is the 10 planks of The Communist Manifesto.

If you can’t see this happening in America, and a ton of progress being made, then I offer two potential explanations:

usefulYou are one of the “useful idiots” of communist teaching.

I am one of the “village idiots” that your Mama probably warned you about.

Some of these points will be open for debate and some will not. In some cases it is blatantly obvious that they have achieved their goals. It is even rumored that our own President has deep communist ties. You might want to check that out as well but I will withhold my opinion at this point. Let’s just lay it out and you can interpret it.

This list was originally printed in “The Naked Communist” by Cleon Skousen. It was entered into Congressional Record in 1963 as the 45 goals of “The Communist Takeover of America.”

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the un1971U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev’s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

naked11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

READ MORE Environmental Nightmare! Dozens Of Highly Toxic Substances Have Been Found In Tap Water All Over America

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers’ associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy making positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to “eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.”

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. “Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.”

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them “censorship” and a violation of free speech and free press.creativecursing

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as “normal, natural, healthy.”

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with “social” religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a “religious crutch.”

prayerinschool28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of “separation of church and state.”

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.



30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the “common man.”

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the “big picture.” Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

obamaapprove32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture–education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

READ MORE Guess where George Clooney is moving his family to protect them?

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social sshollowagencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

divorce40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use [“]united force[“] to solve economic, political or social problems.

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government.

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal.

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike.

10 Planks of “The Communist Manifesto:”

1. Abolition of private property and the application of all rent to public purpose.

2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.manifesto

3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.

4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.

5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly.

6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation in the hands of the State.

7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State, the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.

8. Equal liablity of all to labor. Establishment of Industrial armies, especially for agriculture.

9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the population over the country.

10. Free education for all children in government schools. Abolition of children’s factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc. etc.

Of 55 things listed here I would be curious to what your personal scorecard might read. Feel free to comment below. My interpretation is that progress or completion has been made on almost every single goal or plank laid out today. If you would like to do further research on this topic I would highly recommend a FREE movie that you can access today:

Agenda: Grinding America Down (FREE Full-Length Video on Vimeo)

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[spot]

I'm so pleased you posted this, frodo. It throws your earlier posts on Christianity into perfect focus.

Well done.

[LarsMac]

Yay!!!

John Birch lives!

[Mark Aspam]

Possibly - no, make that probably - one of the silliest pieces of sh*t that I have ever seen on this forum.

Most viewers here are probably too young to remember the anti-communist "witch hunts" of the early 1950's. It was one of the most disgraceful periods in this nation's history.

I guess the poster wants to bring those times back. (Substitute 'liberal' for communist). Geez, ya don't suppose that he's a Trumpist, do ya?

[LarsMac]

The world slides back into the Dark Ages with barely a sigh.

[xfrodobagginsx]

Mark Aspam;1510878 wrote: Possibly - no, make that probably - one of the silliest pieces of sh*t that I have ever seen on this forum.

Most viewers here are probably too young to remember the anti-communist "witch hunts" of the early 1950's. It was one of the most disgraceful periods in this nation's history.

I guess the poster wants to bring those times back. (Substitute 'liberal' for communist). Geez, ya don't suppose that he's a Trumpist, do ya?


Which of the points in the post is NOT happening today or hasn't happened since this warning?

[Mark Aspam]

Well, first of all, I have a copy of the Communist Manifesto right here on my bookshelf. I can assure you that it contains nothing even remotely similar to the nonsense you listed.

Secondly, the author of "The Naked Communist" was a nut job, no doubt similar to yourself, who knew virtually nothing about Russian communism. His "45 goals" were products of his own imagination.

It seems to me that you, as well as other Americans, should be more concerned about the condition of the American presidency, which is currently hanging by a thread, than about the bullcrap you posted.

Just one man's opinion of course. I have lived in three countries, USA, Germany, and the Netherlands. All three of those are socialistic to some extent, God help us if they were not. I like all three just fine.

[Clodhopper]

He's trying to make an academic argument without understanding academic standards of evidence. There seems a widespread belief that if it's in a popular book it's true. There doesn't seem to be any idea why the reputation of the author matters or why reputable peer review matters let alone checking false assumptions and false logic which are central to all the conspiracy theories these people build.

...then of course there's the wall of text arguers: those who believe volume constitutes truth. Sadly, if it's crap in the first place more volume just adds more crap...

[LarsMac]

I remember reading that claptrap when I was 13, and recognizing it for what it was.

[xfrodobagginsx]

Mark Aspam;1510888 wrote: Well, first of all, I have a copy of the Communist Manifesto right here on my bookshelf. I can assure you that it contains nothing even remotely similar to the nonsense you listed.

Secondly, the author of "The Naked Communist" was a nut job, no doubt similar to yourself, who knew virtually nothing about Russian communism. His "45 goals" were products of his own imagination.

It seems to me that you, as well as other Americans, should be more concerned about the condition of the American presidency, which is currently hanging by a thread, than about the bullcrap you posted.

Just one man's opinion of course. I have lived in three countries, USA, Germany, and the Netherlands. All three of those are socialistic to some extent, God help us if they were not. I like all three just fine.


Sounds to me like you are more interested in defending Communism.

[Mark Aspam]

xfrodobagginsx;1510944 wrote: Sounds to me like you are more interested in defending Communism.No, I'm MOSTLY interested in telling you that you don't have the slightest idea of what you're talking about.

You are also probably not aware that Russian communists helped us defeat Hitler.

Regarding the Manifesto, I suggest you waddle down to your friendly neighborhood public library, if you can find it, and check out a copy. You will find an introduction and four chapters, including a set of 25 principles. No "10 planks".

P.S. The "red scare" years were the early to mid 1950s. Your 1963 "Warning" was pretty much out of date as soon as it was published.

[gmc]

Looks like right wing christian fascism is a bigger threat and currently has rhe american constitution in a death grip. You live in a liberal democracy but for how much longer?

[Mark Aspam]

gmc;1510955 wrote: Looks like right wing christian fascism is a bigger threat and currently has rhe american constitution in a death grip. You live in a liberal democracy but for how much longer?Somewhat off the subject of the thread, but I do not see the death grip.

Maybe you could be more specific, or even start a new thread.

Sometimes across the ocean from American politics is not the best vantage point.

Obama was not one of our best presidents and certainly not one of our worst.

Trump is very likely to destroy the Republican party, at least temporarily.

The Constitution will survive in any case.

[xfrodobagginsx]

Mark Aspam;1510950 wrote: No, I'm MOSTLY interested in telling you that you don't have the slightest idea of what you're talking about.

You are also probably not aware that Russian communists helped us defeat Hitler.

Regarding the Manifesto, I suggest you waddle down to your friendly neighborhood public library, if you can find it, and check out a copy. You will find an introduction and four chapters, including a set of 25 principles. No "10 planks".

P.S. The "red scare" years were the early to mid 1950s. Your 1963 "Warning" was pretty much out of date as soon as it was published.


Like I said, you seem more interested in defending communism. The Russians wanted to JOIN Hitler and he rejected them. Secondly, Stalin murdered as many people as Hitler. You don't know what YOU are talking about. Know your history. Stop defending evil. As a Communist defender, you would think that you would know the things on this list. The "Red Scare" was obviously well founded because it's happening today via the Democrats. Socialism is just a stepping stone for full blown infection of Communism.

[LarsMac]

xfrodobagginsx;1510984 wrote: Like I said, you seem more interested in defending communism. The Russians wanted to JOIN Hitler and he rejected them. Secondly, Stalin murdered as many people as Hitler. You don't know what YOU are talking about. Know your history. Stop defending evil. As a Communist defender, you would think that you would know the things on this list. The "Red Scare" was obviously well founded because it's happening today via the Democrats. Socialism is just a stepping stone for full blown infection of Communism.


You have shown how little you know about much.

[Mark Aspam]

LarsMac;1510987 wrote: You have shown how little you know about much.baggins, like his fairytale user name, is out of touch with reality. I am certainly not going to waste any more time trying to put him in touch.

I am a lifelong socialist, my parents received "The People" newspaper in the mail every week (this was in the 1940s-50s) and I devoured it as soon as I was able to read. Sorry to hear that the paper shut down not long ago, it was always a great read.

One of the nicest things about my years teaching English in Germany was that I could say that I was a socialist without people like baggins looking at me funny.

He will no doubt continue to inhabit his fairytale world, God help him.

[xfrodobagginsx]

Mark Aspam;1510988 wrote: baggins, like his fairytale user name, is out of touch with reality. I am certainly not going to waste any more time trying to put him in touch.

I am a lifelong socialist, my parents received "The People" newspaper in the mail every week (this was in the 1940s-50s) and I devoured it as soon as I was able to read. Sorry to hear that the paper shut down not long ago, it was always a great read.

One of the nicest things about my years teaching English in Germany was that I could say that I was a socialist without people like baggins looking at me funny.

He will no doubt continue to inhabit his fairytale world, God help him.


Socialism=Communism lite. FACT: Capitalism built all of the economic giants of the world. Socialism and Communism fails in every Country it is tried.

[Mark Aspam]

Interestingly, and this is not addressed to the dude from fairyland, it's REALLY possible, tho' perhaps not likely, that our next ELECTED prez could be a Socialist, and of course I'm referring to Bernie Sanders.

Trump is very likely to be impeached (and possibly even imprisoned) SOON, VP Whats-his-face will succeed him for the remainder of the term, by 2020 the country will be ready - more than ready - for a BIG change, and Bernie's mah man.

[LarsMac]

xfrodobagginsx;1510989 wrote: Socialism=Communism lite. FACT: Capitalism built all of the economic giants of the world. Socialism and Communism fails in every Country it is tried.


Most successful capitalists nations have a lot of Socialism in their structure.

Communism has never been successful on a large scale.

Even the Soviet Union was never a Communist nation.

And unregulated Capitalism has almost always ended poorly.

[Mark Aspam]

LarsMac;1510992 wrote: Most successful capitalists nations have a lot of Socialism in their structure.

Communism has never been successful on a large scale.

Even the Soviet Union was never a Communist nation.

And unregulated Capitalism has almost always ended poorly.Indeed.

[Bryn Mawr]

LarsMac;1510992 wrote: Most successful capitalists nations have a lot of Socialism in their structure.

Communism has never been successful on a large scale.

Even the Soviet Union was never a Communist nation.

And unregulated Capitalism has almost always ended poorly.


Funnily enough one of the most prosperous of the Indian states has a democratically elected communist government and does very well by it.

The bugbear communist countries are nowhere near being communist, they're totalitarian dictatorships.

[LarsMac]

Bryn Mawr;1511001 wrote: Funnily enough one of the most prosperous of the Indian states has a democratically elected communist government and does very well by it.

The bugbear communist countries are nowhere near being communist, they're totalitarian dictatorships.


true. They often claimed to be Communists, but never showed much evidence of actually being so. Of course many also claim to be democratic, as well. but seldom show any evidence of that being the case, either.

[Bryn Mawr]

LarsMac;1511005 wrote: true. They often claimed to be Communists, but never showed much evidence of actually being so. Of course many also claim to be democratic, as well. but seldom show any evidence of that being the case, either.


:wah: Nice one Lars

[Mark Aspam]

Another thing that comes to mind - I probably should have mentioned it earlier - is that there is quite a history of communism here in the USA, mostly church-affiliated.

The Mennonites, also known as Anabaptists, have, as far as I know, been communal from day one. A man I worked with several years ago belonged with his wife and kids to a Mennonite commune.

Other earlier examples are the Amana colonies in Iowa and the Bishop Hill settlement in Illinois. Both communist, both Christian, both loyal to God and to America.

I can't help remembering an episode of "All in the Family" (the Brit counterpart, I believe, is or was called "Til Death Us Do Part"), Mike mentions that a friend of his has just joined a farming commune, and Archie replies, "People what lives in communes is Comm-un-ists!"

Poster baggins might have seen that episode.

[Bryn Mawr]

Mark Aspam;1511007 wrote: Another thing that comes to mind - I probably should have mentioned it earlier - is that there is quite a history of communism here in the USA, mostly church-affiliated.

The Mennonites, also known as Anabaptists, have, as far as I know, been communal from page one. I man I worked with several years ago belonged with his wife and kids to a Mennonite commune.

Other earlier examples are the Amana colonies in Iowa and the Bishop Hill settlement in Illinois. Both communist, both Christian, both loyal to God and to America.

I can't help remembering an episode of "All in the Family" (the Brit counterpart, I believe, is or was called "Til Death Us Do Part"), Mike mentions that a friend of his has just joined a farming commune, and Archie replies, "People what lives in communes is Comm-un-ists!"

Poster baggins might have seen that episode.


As indeed were the kibbutzim in Israel

[gmc]

If you go back to the roots of capitalism (adam smith the wealth of nations) you will see he advocated things that are recogniseably socialist - like universal healthcare, free universal primary education for all (he was scots at that time the literacy rate was over 90% thanks to free compulsry primary education) and ready access to further education all of which were too important to the common good to be left in the tender mercies of the marketplace. He also laid out a very good case for being workers a decent wage so that they had enouigh disposable income to spent thus generating further demand and stimulating the economy.

Right wing economics don't work and make very little sense. Milton Friedman was an idiot.

[xfrodobagginsx]

LarsMac;1510992 wrote: Most successful capitalists nations have a lot of Socialism in their structure.

Communism has never been successful on a large scale.

Even the Soviet Union was never a Communist nation.

And unregulated Capitalism has almost always ended poorly.


The Socialism has crept in AFTER the economic giant was formed. As they become more and more Socialistic, the economic situation worsens. The Soviet Union was Socialist/Communist, yes. Give an example of your point that "unregulated Capitalism almost always ends poorly"

[FourPart]

Actually, the tenet of Socialism has always led to better conditions throughout history. Capitalism just leads to the rich getting richer & the poor getting poorer until it reaches the level when those poor say "Enough is Enough", and revolutions are born. Capitalist Right Wing Regimes are overthrown & replaced by Socialist ones, thus levelling the wealth / power gaps. France overthrew Royalty. America overthrew British rule, and for a while was doing pretty much ok. However, now things are starting to revert to the previous states of the wealthiest few being in possession of 90% of the wealth. As the gap grows wider, the bubble of revolution gets closer to its bursting point. In the UK the sudden rise of Corbyn has proved that, whilt the Tories have to resort to bribery to cling to power.

[xfrodobagginsx]

FourPart;1511238 wrote: Actually, the tenet of Socialism has always led to better conditions throughout history. Capitalism just leads to the rich getting richer & the poor getting poorer until it reaches the level when those poor say "Enough is Enough", and revolutions are born. Capitalist Right Wing Regimes are overthrown & replaced by Socialist ones, thus levelling the wealth / power gaps. France overthrew Royalty. America overthrew British rule, and for a while was doing pretty much ok. However, now things are starting to revert to the previous states of the wealthiest few being in possession of 90% of the wealth. As the gap grows wider, the bubble of revolution gets closer to its bursting point. In the UK the sudden rise of Corbyn has proved that, whilt the Tories have to resort to bribery to cling to power.


This is complete bull. Socialism always leads to worse conditions throughout history. Unless you consider, The USSR, Nazi Germany, Red China, North Korea and others great places to live. Look at Venezuela, it turned Socialist a few years ago and now it's a miserable hell. Capitalism leads to everyone getting richer. The poor get richer. The middle class get richer and the rich get richer. Your types are so upset about the rich getting richer that you are willing to sacrifice it all just to prevent that fact. Why not make life better for everyone? Capitalism built all of the economic giants of the world. ALL of them. Socialism drains wealth and makes everyone equal...equally poor that is. I don't want to be like France. America is the economic leader of the world. Instead of trying to make America more like the European Economies, which are inferior, maybe Europe should be trying to be more like us. The reason why the economy has been stumbling in America is because of Socialistic ideology creeping more and more into it's Government. We need to get back to what really works...Capitalism. Not to mention all of the loss of freedom lost in Socialist societies. Loss of freedom of Religion for one. Rationing health care and other goods. You must not know about the Soviet Union, China, North Korea and all of the other Socialist nightmares.

[Bryn Mawr]

xfrodobagginsx;1511241 wrote: This is complete bull. Socialism always leads to worse conditions throughout history. Unless you consider, The USSR, Nazi Germany, Red China, North Korea and others great places to live. Look at Venezuela, it turned Socialist a few years ago and now it's a miserable hell. Capitalism leads to everyone getting richer. The poor get richer. The middle class get richer and the rich get richer. Your types are so upset about the rich getting richer that you are willing to sacrifice it all just to prevent that fact. Why not make life better for everyone? Capitalism built all of the economic giants of the world. ALL of them. Socialism drains wealth and makes everyone equal...equally poor that is. I don't want to be like France. America is the economic leader of the world. Instead of trying to make America more like the European Economies, which are inferior, maybe Europe should be trying to be more like us. The reason why the economy has been stumbling in America is because of Socialistic ideology creeping more and more into it's Government. We need to get back to what really works...Capitalism. Not to mention all of the loss of freedom lost in Socialist societies. Loss of freedom of Religion for one. Rationing health care and other goods. You must not know about the Soviet Union, China, North Korea and all of the other Socialist nightmares.


Just to point out a slight flaw in your argument, Nazi Germany was Fascist and the USSR, China and North Korea claim to be Communist but are actually Totalitarian Dictatorships - none of them are, were, or claim(ed) to be Socialist.

The UK under a Labour government is Socialist, none of your examples are anything like.

[xfrodobagginsx]

Bryn Mawr;1511252 wrote: Just to point out a slight flaw in your argument, Nazi Germany was Fascist and the USSR, China and North Korea claim to be Communist but are actually Totalitarian Dictatorships - none of them are, were, or claim(ed) to be Socialist.

The UK under a Labour government is Socialist, none of your examples are anything like.


Nazi Germany was Socialist nonetheless. It was National Socialism:

https://www.britannica.com/event/National-Socialism

National Socialism, German Nationalsozialismus, also called Nazism or Naziism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany. In its intense nationalism, mass appeal, and dictatorial rule, National Socialism shared many elements with Italian fascism. However, Nazism was far more extreme both in its ideas and in its practice. In almost every respect it was an anti-intellectual and atheoretical movement, emphasizing the will of the charismatic dictator as the sole source of inspiration of a people and a nation, as well as a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

USSR WAS Socialist too, hence the name Union Of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics. Yes they are Communist which is just a more extreme end of Socialism.

China is still Communists, although it has taken on some aspects of Capitalism: http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/2208716 ... communist/

North Korea is Communist at an extreme: http://victimsofcommunism.org/north-kor ... 1948-2014/

Communism is just a more extreme version of Socialism.

[LarsMac]

xfrodobagginsx;1511254 wrote: Nazi Germany was Socialist nonetheless. It was National Socialism:

https://www.britannica.com/event/National-Socialism

National Socialism, German Nationalsozialismus, also called Nazism or Naziism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany. In its intense nationalism, mass appeal, and dictatorial rule, National Socialism shared many elements with Italian fascism. However, Nazism was far more extreme both in its ideas and in its practice. In almost every respect it was an anti-intellectual and atheoretical movement, emphasizing the will of the charismatic dictator as the sole source of inspiration of a people and a nation, as well as a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

USSR WAS Socialist too, hence the name Union Of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics. Yes they are Communist which is just a more extreme end of Socialism.

China is still Communists, although it has taken on some aspects of Capitalism: Is China Still Communist?

North Korea is Communist at an extreme: North Korea Under Communism 1948-2014 | Victims of Communism

Communism is just a more extreme version of Socialism.




Actually, by your logic, North Korea is a Democracy. Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

[Bryn Mawr]

xfrodobagginsx;1511254 wrote: Nazi Germany was Socialist nonetheless. It was National Socialism:

https://www.britannica.com/event/National-Socialism

National Socialism, German Nationalsozialismus, also called Nazism or Naziism, totalitarian movement led by Adolf Hitler as head of the Nazi Party in Germany. In its intense nationalism, mass appeal, and dictatorial rule, National Socialism shared many elements with Italian fascism. However, Nazism was far more extreme both in its ideas and in its practice. In almost every respect it was an anti-intellectual and atheoretical movement, emphasizing the will of the charismatic dictator as the sole source of inspiration of a people and a nation, as well as a vision of annihilation of all enemies of the Aryan Volk as the one and only goal of Nazi policy.

USSR WAS Socialist too, hence the name Union Of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics. Yes they are Communist which is just a more extreme end of Socialism.

China is still Communists, although it has taken on some aspects of Capitalism: Is China Still Communist?

North Korea is Communist at an extreme: North Korea Under Communism 1948-2014 | Victims of Communism

Communism is just a more extreme version of Socialism.


The name does not define the entity, it is only a token used to represent it.

As an example take Iceland and Greenland - Iceland was settled first when the Vikings were prepared to be more honest but when they came to settle Greenland they needed to persuade the colonists to make the move. Any rational comparison of the two would reverse the names.

So look at the definition of Communism and ask yourself how that relates to Kim Jon Il's North Korea, Mao Tse Tung's China or Stalinist Russia - there is no point of contact at all. Now look at Kibutzism in Israel - it fits the definition rather well don't you think?

As for Communism just being an extreme form of Socialism, you might as well say the Fascism is just an extreme form of Capitalism and therefore the USA is Fascist - just as much a nonsense as your claim.

[Saint_]

Well I don't know. I'm a liberal and an educator and I am actively indoctrinating students in Socialist principles... like taking care of the poor, accepting all races and cultures, a level playing field for all classes, and giving civil rights to everyone. You know, that socialist stuff.

[FourPart]

Your claim that in a Capitalist society everyone gets richer has a glaringly obvious flaw. Where do all these riches come from? There are 10 people. Each has £10. Under a Socialist Society they all work together so they each end up with about £10 each. Under a Capitalist Society, one person ends up with £91 & the remaining 9 have £1 each.

[LarsMac]

Saint_;1511289 wrote: Well I don't know. I'm a liberal and an educator and I am actively indoctrinating students in Socialist principles... like taking care of the poor, accepting all races and cultures, a level playing field for all classes, and giving civil rights to everyone. You know, that socialist stuff.


My hero!

[xfrodobagginsx]

Saint_;1511289 wrote: Well I don't know. I'm a liberal and an educator and I am actively indoctrinating students in Socialist principles... like taking care of the poor, accepting all races and cultures, a level playing field for all classes, and giving civil rights to everyone. You know, that socialist stuff.


Taking care of the poor by keeping them down and dependent on the Government? That's not taking care of the poor. That's keeping them down. Helping them better themselves by educating them and helping them get a good job is helping them. Christians accept all races and cultures so I am not sure what you are implying. It seems that liberals and communists don't accept the Christian culture and they want to drive the white people down who just want to be equal with everyone else. So, they don't want to accept ALL races and cultures. Level playing field by keeping everyone equally poor via Socialism? How about making everyone unequally wealthy instead of equally poor. The harder you work, the more money you should get. Capitalism built all of the economic giants of the world. Socialism fails in every country it's ever been tried. It's oppressive and evil. As far as civil rights goes, what rights doesn't a minority have that anyone else has? So yes you are spreading lies there. Socialist stuff like Stalin and hitler who murdered millions of people? Socialist like the North Korean leader? China? Yeah Great stuff...NOT... It leads to evil and oppression.

[Saint_]

xfrodobagginsx;1512553 wrote: Taking care of the poor by keeping them down and dependent on the Government? That's not taking care of the poor. That's keeping them down. Helping them better themselves by educating them and helping them get a good job is helping them.


Exactly what I do. Math is the great equalizer.

Christians accept all races and cultures so I am not sure what you are implying.


No, Christians only say they accept all cultures and races. In reality, they are trying to build a wall to separate them from everyone else. (Not white or Republican, that is...) Heck, even the biggest Christian church in America wouldn't let refugees from a hurricane come into their church until they got shamed for it.

It seems that liberals and communists don't accept the Christian culture and they want to drive the white people down who just want to be equal with everyone else.


This "Christian culture" you talk about, is that where 1% of the rich white families in America control 95% of the wealth? How are they equal with anyone? Not very Christian to be a multi-billionaire while people starve now, is it?

How about making everyone unequally wealthy instead of equally poor.


Distribution of wealth, great idea! I knew you were a closet Socialist!

The harder you work, the more money you should get. Yes, too bad that's not how capitalism works.

Capitalism built all of the economic giants of the world.


Economic giants like Trump? They're called "oligarchs" and they're universally evil. You're not for evil are you?

Socialism fails in every country it's ever been tried. It's oppressive and evil.


Socialism is government control of society like the U.S. Post Office, your local Fire Department, your local Police Department, and of course the IRS. Are you saying that America is a failure?

As far as civil rights goes, what rights doesn't a minority have that anyone else has?


HAHAHAHA...sorry I had to laugh out loud there. You should talk to one of the Dreamers about minority rights.

Socialist stuff like Stalin and hitler who murdered millions of people? Socialist like the North Korean leader? China? Yeah Great stuff...NOT... It leads to evil and oppression.


Umm, you went to school, right? You just named two Fascists, a totalitarian dictator and a Communist nation...and called them all Socialist. Do you even know what Socialism is?

[xfrodobagginsx]

Saint_;1512565 wrote: Exactly what I do. Math is the great equalizer.

Interesting. I thought liberals like you didn't believe in absolutes. So does 2+2 REALLY equal 4 or does it equal whatever I want it to equal? Just curious.

No, Christians only say they accept all cultures and races. In reality, they are trying to build a wall to separate them from everyone else. (Not white or Republican, that is...) Heck, even the biggest Christian church in America wouldn't let refugees from a hurricane come into their church until they got shamed for it.

Interesting you should say that because liberals want to separate all of the Christian White Males away from everyone else because they HATE them for being Christian, they HATE them for being white and they want to put males down. First of all, he did allow refugees into his church. Secondly, I am not a supporter of "Him"



This "Christian culture" you talk about, is that where 1% of the rich white families in America control 95% of the wealth? How are they equal with anyone? Not very Christian to be a multi-billionaire while people starve now, is it?

First off I would like to say that I am proud to be white and I think it's racist of liberals to always attack white people for being white. Whether or not it's true that 1% of the people control 95% of the wealth is irrelevant. The fact is that EVERYONE prospers under Capitalism. Everyone Suffers under Socialism. Get a clue. Capitalism is better. It's not very Christian to be greedy and jealous of people who have more than you do. Let people do with their money what they want. Jesus wanted people to give from their heart, not because the Government forces them to. Under your system, EVERYONE suffers and is equally poor. Yeah that's real great. Why don't you move to a communist Country if it's better?





Distribution of wealth, great idea! I knew you were a closet Socialist!

No way am I a closet Socialist. Let everyone earn their own way by working hard, but give them a chance instead of stealing what hard working people work for like Socialists do and giving it away to those who are lazy.

Yes, too bad that's not how capitalism works.



Capitalism is better than Socialism and Communism. Eat it.



Economic giants like Trump? They're called "oligarchs" and they're universally evil. You're not for evil are you?

I wasn't aware that Trump was a nation. I am talking about all of the richest nations in the world are built because of Capitalism, NOT Socialism. The evil ones are the greedy, jealous, angry people who are can't handle it when someone else works hard and does better than them. You want what doesn't belong to you and you can't have it and it's driving you crazy. That's evil. Stop trying to steal from people.



Socialism is government control of society like the U.S. Post Office, your local Fire Department, your local Police Department, and of course the IRS. Are you saying that America is a failure?



What I am saying is that limited Government is much better than what you want. No one is against the things listed above and you know it. But you have to use dishonesty to make your argument because reality doesn't make sense.



HAHAHAHA...sorry I had to laugh out loud there. You should talk to one of the Dreamers about minority rights.



Instead of blaming white people, Christians and males for everything, maybe if people like you would treat all men equally, then racism would die, but people like you like to fuel it and divide people into groups so you can control. Should white people have the same rights as everyone else?

Umm, you went to school, right? You just named two Fascists, a totalitarian dictator and a Communist nation...and called them all Socialist. Do you even know what Socialism is?

They were both Socialists as well. Didn't YOU go to school? Oh I know, it was a liberal know nothing, racist school right? Yeah I went to one of those too. LoL




My response is in bold above.

[xfrodobagginsx]

LarsMac;1511388 wrote: My hero!


How sweet.

[xfrodobagginsx]

LarsMac;1511256 wrote: Actually, by your logic, North Korea is a Democracy. Democratic People's Republic of Korea.


North Korea is a dictatorship as everyone knows, just like The Union Of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics, China and Venezuela, the newest tragic Socialist disaster.

[FourPart]

Improvements to standards of living have ALWAYS come about as a result of Socialism & Sociialist campaigning. Trade Unions, Workers Rights, Fair Pay for All, Free Education, NHS, Social Housing, etc. Downward steps have ALWAYS come about as a result of Capitalism. Banning the Right to Withold Labour by the Unions, Segregating Schools, selling off the NHS, selling off Social Housing, leaving a record number of people homeless, Selling off of Public Services to already wealthy capitalists to further build their empires, aided by the fact that they rarely pay any taxes on these incomes.

Socialists aim to give everyone an equal chance to progress. Equal schools, etc. Statistics show that these have just as high a standard - often higher than the Grammar Schools, which favour the wealthy. Capitalists decry the idea of the State controlling the Public, but are quick to move in on having the Church indoctrinate the schools in their superstitious Religious belief in place of modern Science. It's an ideology of "We want you to have full control over everything - except everything that we want to control you in. You should have the freedom to choose - so long as you choose what we tell you to choose".

[xfrodobagginsx]

FourPart;1512764 wrote: Improvements to standards of living have ALWAYS come about as a result of Socialism & Sociialist campaigning. Trade Unions, Workers Rights, Fair Pay for All, Free Education, NHS, Social Housing, etc. Downward steps have ALWAYS come about as a result of Capitalism. Banning the Right to Withold Labour by the Unions, Segregating Schools, selling off the NHS, selling off Social Housing, leaving a record number of people homeless, Selling off of Public Services to already wealthy capitalists to further build their empires, aided by the fact that they rarely pay any taxes on these incomes.

No. Improving the standard of living is always the result of Capitalism being allow to work. That's what built all of the economic giants of the world, including the greatest economic power in the world, the US. Socialism is a drain on the overall economy and as it gets large enough into the economic system, it pulls it down to collapse.

Socialists aim to give everyone an equal chance to progress. Equal schools, etc. Statistics show that these have just as high a standard - often higher than the Grammar Schools, which favour the wealthy. Capitalists decry the idea of the State controlling the Public, but are quick to move in on having the Church indoctrinate the schools in their superstitious Religious belief in place of modern Science. It's an ideology of "We want you to have full control over everything - except everything that we want to control you in. You should have the freedom to choose - so long as you choose what we tell you to choose".

Socialism doesn't improve anyone in the end. It makes everyone equally poor. Equally oppressed. Equally abused. Equally brainwashed by lies in school. It's garbage. It's why the Soviet Union Collapsed. It's why California needed a bail out. It's why European Economies are collapsing and getting bail outs from the EU. Get a clue!




My response is in bold above.

[FourPart]

After WW2 the UK was in economic turmoil. Labour came to power & despite the chaotic state of the economy went ahead & formed the NHS, which has always been the UK's Jewel in the Crown. They developed the Welfare State, to care for the sick, disabled & elderly. They set up State funded schooling for all. The Tory Capitalists are now trying to sell it all off to their rich mates so that they can get richer still. The way an economy works is that you can't have everybody getting richer. Socialism works to benefit the vast majority. To treat everyone equally. To maintain high standards for all. To protect everyone's rights. Capitalism seeks to take what they can from the most vulnerable, take away their rights & living conditions, all in order to line their own pockets. It was the Capitalists who fought to keep slavery, as it meant losing their right to own human beings as a source of free labour that they would otherwise have to pay for. The worst thing of all is that these rich mates of theirs don't even pay their taxes, meaning that the rest of the people have to pay more to cover the share that they aren't paying. Capitalism is a drain on humanity.

You tell me just what has Capitalism ever done for the everyday person? Why should 85% of the country's money be owned by the top 5%, while the very concept of Capitalism seeks to continue to increase that divide.

[Saint_]

FourPart;1512823 wrote: Socialism works to benefit the vast majority. To treat everyone equally. To maintain high standards for all. To protect everyone's rights. Capitalism seeks to take what they can from the most vulnerable, take away their rights & living conditions, all in order to line their own pockets. .


Thank you. That's what I've been trying to say.

Frodo keeps bringing up communist and fascist countries like Nazi Germany and China, which aren't socialist at all. The truly happiest countries in the world are places like Norway and Finland. And they are all borderline Socialist!

The World's Happiest Countries and Why They are That Way



What’s the most prosperous country in the world? Norway. What’s it got that the rest of the world doesn’t? The biggest bump comes from having the world’s highest per capita GDP of $53,000 a year. Norwegians have the second-highest level of satisfaction with their standards of living: 95% say they are satisfied with the freedom to choose the direction of their lives; an unparalleled 74% say other people can be trusted.

The happiest countries are all borderline socialist states, with generous welfare benefits and lots of redistribution of wealth. Yet they don’t let that socialism cross the line into autocracy. Civil liberties are abundant (consider decriminalized drugs and prostitution in the Netherlands). There are few restrictions on the flow of capital or of labor. Legatum’s scholars point out that Denmark, for example, has little job protection, but generous unemployment benefits. So business owners can keep the right number of workers, while workers can have a safety net while they muck around looking for that fulfilling job.

[xfrodobagginsx]

FourPart;1512764 wrote: Improvements to standards of living have ALWAYS come about as a result of Socialism & Sociialist campaigning. Trade Unions, Workers Rights, Fair Pay for All, Free Education, NHS, Social Housing, etc. Downward steps have ALWAYS come about as a result of Capitalism. Banning the Right to Withold Labour by the Unions, Segregating Schools, selling off the NHS, selling off Social Housing, leaving a record number of people homeless, Selling off of Public Services to already wealthy capitalists to further build their empires, aided by the fact that they rarely pay any taxes on these incomes.

What a LIE!!! It makes everyone poor and oppressed! Ask North Koreans, Soviets, Chinese, Venezuelans how much they like Socialism. I was JUST talking to someone 2 days ago from the Soviet Union days. He lived in Czechoslovakia. He said that even when he had the money to buy things like meat, he couldn't get them because they weren't available in the stores! They had lots of cattle and meat where he lived, but they couldn't eat them because the Government would take them. No freedom either. He snuck out of the Country because they wouldn't let him leave. Socialism doesn't work. Quit lying. Capitalism is the greatest economic system the world has ever known. Move to a Socialist hell if you want to. America has way more money than any other Country because of Capitalism. The economy has been dragged down in recent years by Socialism.

Socialists aim to give everyone an equal chance to progress. Equal schools, etc. Statistics show that these have just as high a standard - often higher than the Grammar Schools, which favour the wealthy. Capitalists decry the idea of the State controlling the Public, but are quick to move in on having the Church indoctrinate the schools in their superstitious Religious belief in place of modern Science. It's an ideology of "We want you to have full control over everything - except everything that we want to control you in. You should have the freedom to choose - so long as you choose what we tell you to choose"



Equal by making everyone equally poor. Not a great strategy. It's garbage and it belongs in the trash because that's what it ACTUALLY produces. Socialism might work when Christ is King in Jerusalem and the sinful nature of man is removed, but for now,

Capitalism is the best.




My response is in bold above

[LarsMac]

xfrodobagginsx;1512732 wrote: North Korea is a dictatorship as everyone knows, just like The Union Of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics, China and Venezuela, the newest tragic Socialist disaster.


It was not Socialism that did Venezuela in. It was authoritarian confiscation of the only source of income in the country.

That had little to do with Socialism, even though the leadership loved waving the Socialist Banner around.

Not unlike the capitalist bozos in the US waving the Stars and stripes, and they proudly work to gut the Banking and health care systems, leaving millions of Americans with nothing.

[LarsMac]

xfrodobagginsx;1512732 wrote: North Korea is a dictatorship as everyone knows, just like The Union Of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics, China and Venezuela, the newest tragic Socialist disaster.


It was not Socialism that did Venezuela in. It was authoritarian confiscation of the only source of income in the country.

That had little to do with Socialism, even though the leadership loved waving the Socialist Banner around.

Not unlike the capitalist bozos in the US waving the Stars and stripes, and they proudly work to gut the Banking and health care systems, leaving millions of Americans with nothing.

[xfrodobagginsx]

Saint_;1512824 wrote: Thank you. That's what I've been trying to say.

Frodo keeps bringing up communist and fascist countries like Nazi Germany and China, which aren't socialist at all. The truly happiest countries in the world are places like Norway and Finland. And they are all borderline Socialist!

They absolutely are Socialist and Communist. Hilter's Party was The National Socialist German Workers' Party, It's in the name. Soviet Union was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Venezuela has recently turned Socialist. Do you deny that it's Socialist? Do you deny that it's a disaster? Come one. Norway, the place that charges 200% tax on automobiles? I don't think so. So a $30,000 car would cost $60,000. Nice work. The taxes are so high that they don't hardly have any money left from their pay check. How many Socialist EU Countries have ALREADY needed bail outs? Didn't Socialist California need a bailout? I thought Socialism was better?

The World's Happiest Countries and Why They are That Way



What’s the most prosperous country in the world? Norway. What’s it got that the rest of the world doesn’t? The biggest bump comes from having the world’s highest per capita GDP of $53,000 a year. Norwegians have the second-highest level of satisfaction with their standards of living: 95% say they are satisfied with the freedom to choose the direction of their lives; an unparalleled 74% say other people can be trusted.



The United States is the most prosperous nation in the world even with all of the Socialism that's been dragging it down. Check out the cost of living in Norway vs. the US.

The happiest countries are all borderline socialist states, with generous welfare benefits and lots of redistribution of wealth. Yet they don’t let that socialism cross the line into autocracy. Civil liberties are abundant (consider decriminalized drugs and prostitution in the Netherlands). There are few restrictions on the flow of capital or of labor. Legatum’s scholars point out that Denmark, for example, has little job protection, but generous unemployment benefits. So business owners can keep the right number of workers, while workers can have a safety net while they muck around looking for that fulfilling job.

Civil Liberties are already under attack in America from the Socialists. Religious liberties are under attack. No thanks.




My responses are in bold above.

[LarsMac]

xfrodobagginsx;1512863 wrote: My responses are in bold above.


You responses are the rantings of a dolt.