Which benefits would YOU cut?
David Cameron and George Osborne must find an extra £12B as benefits cut begins | Daily Mail Online
Scots grab Queen's cash!
Nicola Sturgeon wants The Queen's £2m royal fund for Scottish parliament | Daily Mail Online
hmmm
hmmm
If cuts have to be made (and I accede that savings do need to be made in order to balance a budget if they're loth to make their own kind pay the taxes they're supposed to) I would probably look to the Bus Passes. I have absolutely nothing against them being available for local public transport, but as things stand these are usable on a National basis, where someone can travel from one end of the country to the other totally free of charge. Keep the bus passes available to cover the person's home region & immediate surrounding areas (to allow for those near the regional borders), but remove the National option.
hmmm
Why the heck should we have cuts into our various benefits schemes? Everybody knows that it is the poor needy people in the UK who will suffer the most ! Perhaps it would be more to the point if our useless government developed a tiny bit of common sense and severely cut all the billions of aid which the UK are sending abroad, mostly to countries who really do not need any financial aid !!!! The UK could sort our home financial problems at a stroke ! Also demand the millions of tax owed to the government by big businesses - oops sorry, I forgot to remember that the government are frightened stupid to risk upsetting the big businesses in the UK, for fear they will up sticks and bugger off abroad ! :rolleyes:
British still giving hundreds of millions of pounds in aid to wealthy countries - Telegraph
Please read and digest !
British still giving hundreds of millions of pounds in aid to wealthy countries - Telegraph
Please read and digest !
I'm a Saga-lout, growing old disgracefully
hmmm
Should imagine the cost of free travel is minimal, filling seats that otherwise would be empty.
In the news today how we pay over the odds for house rents compared to the continent. And all those private landlords claiming it simply because they can........creaming off the top of benefit.
Working credits, while doing a job for a multi national that dodges tax by threatening to move their head quarters elsewhere, make them pay a living wage and pay their tax.
In the news today how we pay over the odds for house rents compared to the continent. And all those private landlords claiming it simply because they can........creaming off the top of benefit.
Working credits, while doing a job for a multi national that dodges tax by threatening to move their head quarters elsewhere, make them pay a living wage and pay their tax.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
hmmm
As I see it they should let the companies up sticks & move out. After all they're not putting anything into it, and there's always going to be their business rivals which would be only too happy to step in with less competition. Furthermore, the erason they're going to be here in the first place is that there's money to be made. If there's a little less money than there would have been before, there's still likely to be money available.
As for Foreign Aid - much of what is being given away is horrendous. All the billions going to India - a country with its own Space Programme is ridiculous. The amount thrown away there would pretty much solve the NHS funding problems.
As for Foreign Aid - much of what is being given away is horrendous. All the billions going to India - a country with its own Space Programme is ridiculous. The amount thrown away there would pretty much solve the NHS funding problems.
hmmm
Cut the military budget. Always that. They are always spending millions on projects that are obsolete by the time they come out. Besides, from Britain's point of view, why fight big wars at all? Let the superpowers foot the bill.
hmmm
Do away with Trident. It's no deterrent at all. It's not stopped Russia steadily creeping across it's borders. It's not stopped ISIS. It's not stopped Al Quaeda. It didn't stop Argentina invading the Falklands. Besides, if anyone were to attack us with nukes, the country wouldn't be of much use to them anyway, and if anyone's mad enough to use them in the first place, any risk of retaliation ain't going to stop them.
The age old claim goes up that it is the Nuclear Deterrent that has kept us at peace all these years. Well, judging by all the conflicts we've been in, it hasn't, and besides, who's to say it would have been any different if we didn't have it. What about all the other countries that don't have it that get by far more peaceably than we do?
The age old claim goes up that it is the Nuclear Deterrent that has kept us at peace all these years. Well, judging by all the conflicts we've been in, it hasn't, and besides, who's to say it would have been any different if we didn't have it. What about all the other countries that don't have it that get by far more peaceably than we do?
hmmm
G#Gill;1481192 wrote: Why the heck should we have cuts into our various benefits schemes? Everybody knows that it is the poor needy people in the UK who will suffer the most ! Perhaps it would be more to the point if our useless government developed a tiny bit of common sense and severely cut all the billions of aid which the UK are sending abroad, mostly to countries who really do not need any financial aid !!!! The UK could sort our home financial problems at a stroke ! Also demand the millions of tax owed to the government by big businesses - oops sorry, I forgot to remember that the government are frightened stupid to risk upsetting the big businesses in the UK, for fear they will up sticks and bugger off abroad ! :rolleyes:
British still giving hundreds of millions of pounds in aid to wealthy countries - Telegraph
Please read and digest !
Here are some APPROXIMATE figures. I have cited 2 "loss" examples, and 1 half-baked "rebate" from the European social fund.
EU membership = £60 Billion per annum
ESF rebate = £20 Billion per annum
Unclaimed business taxes = £30 Billion per annum
There's £70 billion for starters!
If you tried to run a business in this manner, you'd soon be selling the family silver! The bad news is that there are many other examples of bad/corrupt "house-keeping" out there. The EU financial auditors still haven't approved the EU's "accounts" yet, despite the EU being around since '92, so where HAVE all those missing billions gone??
It should be mandatory that you have REAL-WORLD business experience before you can be appointed chancellor for example, rather than all this unproven, book-learned, theoretical, mumbo-jumbo, trendy crap they seem to inflict upon us all!:-5
British still giving hundreds of millions of pounds in aid to wealthy countries - Telegraph
Please read and digest !
Here are some APPROXIMATE figures. I have cited 2 "loss" examples, and 1 half-baked "rebate" from the European social fund.
EU membership = £60 Billion per annum
ESF rebate = £20 Billion per annum
Unclaimed business taxes = £30 Billion per annum
There's £70 billion for starters!
If you tried to run a business in this manner, you'd soon be selling the family silver! The bad news is that there are many other examples of bad/corrupt "house-keeping" out there. The EU financial auditors still haven't approved the EU's "accounts" yet, despite the EU being around since '92, so where HAVE all those missing billions gone??
It should be mandatory that you have REAL-WORLD business experience before you can be appointed chancellor for example, rather than all this unproven, book-learned, theoretical, mumbo-jumbo, trendy crap they seem to inflict upon us all!:-5
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
hmmm
Smaug;1481201 wrote:
EU membership = £60 Billion per annum
ESF rebate = £20 Billion per annum
Unclaimed business taxes = £30 Billion per annum
There's £70 billion for starters!
I think you are saying £60 Billion paid to the EU just for membership.....a loss
then a rebate from the EU of £20 Billion............................................a gain
and that unclaimed business tax costs £30 billion................................why does the loss get remedied by leaving the EU ?
Why don't we call it £40 billion for membership (£60 B minus £20 B) and sort out the unpaid business tax ourselves ?
EU membership = £60 Billion per annum
ESF rebate = £20 Billion per annum
Unclaimed business taxes = £30 Billion per annum
There's £70 billion for starters!
I think you are saying £60 Billion paid to the EU just for membership.....a loss
then a rebate from the EU of £20 Billion............................................a gain
and that unclaimed business tax costs £30 billion................................why does the loss get remedied by leaving the EU ?
Why don't we call it £40 billion for membership (£60 B minus £20 B) and sort out the unpaid business tax ourselves ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
hmmm
Bruv;1481204 wrote: I think you are saying £60 Billion paid to the EU just for membership.....a loss
then a rebate from the EU of £20 Billion............................................a gain
and that unclaimed business tax costs £30 billion................................why does the loss get remedied by leaving the EU ?
Why don't we call it £40 billion for membership (£60 B minus £20 B) and sort out the unpaid business tax ourselves ?
Part of the loss would be regained (£40 Billion) by leaving the EU. I personally would like some MAJOR reforms tried in Europe first, rather than a "Brexit", if only for the human rights act, and a higher court (Strasbourg), independent of, and superior to our justice system, which appears to be pandering (that word again!) to local Govt. "cash-cow" influence in some areas (you can be fined £900 quid in Notts for dropping a fag end, yet SERIOUS driving and public order offences often yield a fine of less than £500...)
Not at all blatant...
then a rebate from the EU of £20 Billion............................................a gain
and that unclaimed business tax costs £30 billion................................why does the loss get remedied by leaving the EU ?
Why don't we call it £40 billion for membership (£60 B minus £20 B) and sort out the unpaid business tax ourselves ?
Part of the loss would be regained (£40 Billion) by leaving the EU. I personally would like some MAJOR reforms tried in Europe first, rather than a "Brexit", if only for the human rights act, and a higher court (Strasbourg), independent of, and superior to our justice system, which appears to be pandering (that word again!) to local Govt. "cash-cow" influence in some areas (you can be fined £900 quid in Notts for dropping a fag end, yet SERIOUS driving and public order offences often yield a fine of less than £500...)
Not at all blatant...
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
hmmm
Saint_;1481196 wrote: Cut the military budget. Always that. They are always spending millions on projects that are obsolete by the time they come out. Besides, from Britain's point of view, why fight big wars at all? Let the superpowers foot the bill.
That's OK as long as the "other guys" do the same, otherwise you run the risk of being viewed as weak. I'm afraid that in the world at present, might IS right, whether we like it or not, and those without weapons can still be killed by them. With so many "men of power" vying to be "king of the heap", freedom is maintained at sword-point. Nations losing sight of this are asking to be "dealt out".
Why should the super-powers foot the bill alone? Freedom is everyone's responsibility, the same as safety in the workplace, so we should all shoulder our share of the burden, financially AND militarily, under UN control.
If I was in charge here (UK), I would probably DOUBLE the defence budget, scrap most of Trident whilst significantly beefing up conventional defences. You can't negotiate effectively from a weak position, no matter your role in life, in microcosm OR macrocosm!
No-one will respect you, and your wishes/demands will go largely ignored, simply because there's nothing to back up your (nation's) argument.
That's OK as long as the "other guys" do the same, otherwise you run the risk of being viewed as weak. I'm afraid that in the world at present, might IS right, whether we like it or not, and those without weapons can still be killed by them. With so many "men of power" vying to be "king of the heap", freedom is maintained at sword-point. Nations losing sight of this are asking to be "dealt out".
Why should the super-powers foot the bill alone? Freedom is everyone's responsibility, the same as safety in the workplace, so we should all shoulder our share of the burden, financially AND militarily, under UN control.
If I was in charge here (UK), I would probably DOUBLE the defence budget, scrap most of Trident whilst significantly beefing up conventional defences. You can't negotiate effectively from a weak position, no matter your role in life, in microcosm OR macrocosm!
No-one will respect you, and your wishes/demands will go largely ignored, simply because there's nothing to back up your (nation's) argument.
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
hmmm
Why should the Super Powers act as the Unelected World Police Force in matters that don't concern them?
hmmm
Smaug;1481201 wrote: Here are some APPROXIMATE figures. I have cited 2 "loss" examples, and 1 half-baked "rebate" from the European social fund.
EU membership = £60 Billion per annum
ESF rebate = £20 Billion per annum
Unclaimed business taxes = £30 Billion per annum
There's £70 billion for starters!
If you tried to run a business in this manner, you'd soon be selling the family silver! The bad news is that there are many other examples of bad/corrupt "house-keeping" out there. The EU financial auditors still haven't approved the EU's "accounts" yet, despite the EU being around since '92, so where HAVE all those missing billions gone??
It should be mandatory that you have REAL-WORLD business experience before you can be appointed chancellor for example, rather than all this unproven, book-learned, theoretical, mumbo-jumbo, trendy crap they seem to inflict upon us all!:-5
Simply looking at the cost of eu membership is a red herring - simple headlines that stops any real rational debate on the subject. Same with the european courts - the number of decisions against the UK is less than 3% and it's not just not just about asylum seekers - for examplre part time workers for local authoprities won their case agaisnt theior emplyers for discriminating against them, keeping them out of superannuation schemes and not allowing sick pay etc etc, their only option was thn european court now local autrhortities bleat about the cost but they should not have discriminated in the first place.
The real cost to us is the failure to collect taxes from big companies and letting them amake ll thei profits here and take any benefit out of the country. The banking crisis was the fault of government and crooked bankers why the hell shluld we pay for a bunch of crooks who got away with it? Time and time again it's ben demonsrated that low wages and punishing the poor does nothing tio help- the economy. It's not even good capitaism it's simply bad economics. Monetariam has got to be one of the biggest cons in history and idiots lke thatcher and you fell for it.
Also you're not factoring in to the equation the cost of all the war we have got in to for absolutely no benefit. Therte are right wing publications that carry screds on the ost of the welfare state since ww2 (forgetting there wasn't one before then). The UK was completly bankrupt after ww2 we only recently paid it off recently. The cost ti the economy ofm margeret thatchers privatisations is also not ever brought in to the equation, we now subsidiose thye railways more than we did before it was privatised power comopanies are demanding subsidies to invest in infrastructure - what happend to all the prifits over the last thirty years.
All you ever do is come out with the same old mantra you've been sucked in to a specious argument that doesn't stand up to five minutes thought.
Sometimes capitalism really is theft and the kind we have been conned in to accepting is.
EU membership = £60 Billion per annum
ESF rebate = £20 Billion per annum
Unclaimed business taxes = £30 Billion per annum
There's £70 billion for starters!
If you tried to run a business in this manner, you'd soon be selling the family silver! The bad news is that there are many other examples of bad/corrupt "house-keeping" out there. The EU financial auditors still haven't approved the EU's "accounts" yet, despite the EU being around since '92, so where HAVE all those missing billions gone??
It should be mandatory that you have REAL-WORLD business experience before you can be appointed chancellor for example, rather than all this unproven, book-learned, theoretical, mumbo-jumbo, trendy crap they seem to inflict upon us all!:-5
Simply looking at the cost of eu membership is a red herring - simple headlines that stops any real rational debate on the subject. Same with the european courts - the number of decisions against the UK is less than 3% and it's not just not just about asylum seekers - for examplre part time workers for local authoprities won their case agaisnt theior emplyers for discriminating against them, keeping them out of superannuation schemes and not allowing sick pay etc etc, their only option was thn european court now local autrhortities bleat about the cost but they should not have discriminated in the first place.
The real cost to us is the failure to collect taxes from big companies and letting them amake ll thei profits here and take any benefit out of the country. The banking crisis was the fault of government and crooked bankers why the hell shluld we pay for a bunch of crooks who got away with it? Time and time again it's ben demonsrated that low wages and punishing the poor does nothing tio help- the economy. It's not even good capitaism it's simply bad economics. Monetariam has got to be one of the biggest cons in history and idiots lke thatcher and you fell for it.
Also you're not factoring in to the equation the cost of all the war we have got in to for absolutely no benefit. Therte are right wing publications that carry screds on the ost of the welfare state since ww2 (forgetting there wasn't one before then). The UK was completly bankrupt after ww2 we only recently paid it off recently. The cost ti the economy ofm margeret thatchers privatisations is also not ever brought in to the equation, we now subsidiose thye railways more than we did before it was privatised power comopanies are demanding subsidies to invest in infrastructure - what happend to all the prifits over the last thirty years.
All you ever do is come out with the same old mantra you've been sucked in to a specious argument that doesn't stand up to five minutes thought.
Sometimes capitalism really is theft and the kind we have been conned in to accepting is.
hmmm
The banking crisis was not the fault of 'the' Government. It was a worldwide thing - something that conveniently tends to get overlooked when it comes to political mudslinging. None of the Governments had any control over anything. It was purely a matter of excessive greed getting out of control until the house of cards finally came tumbling down. Then the Government bails them out, while the bankers still continue to award themselves obnoxious bonuses, while they continue to run things at a loss, and the Government allows them to do it, even though at this point the banks are technically Government owned. Now the Government is deciding to sell off the banks, which were paid for by the tax payers, at a fraction of their market value. And what do you think the political sympathies of those potential shareholders are likely to be? Hmm?
hmmm
Smaug;1481209 wrote: Part of the loss would be regained (£40 Billion) by leaving the EU. I personally would like some MAJOR reforms tried in Europe first, rather than a "Brexit", if only for the human rights act, and a higher court (Strasbourg), independent of, and superior to our justice system, which appears to be pandering (that word again!) to local Govt. "cash-cow" influence in some areas (you can be fined £900 quid in Notts for dropping a fag end, yet SERIOUS driving and public order offences often yield a fine of less than £500...)
Not at all blatant...
I have very mixed feelings about the EU, but I think many of our so called problems with the EU are not EU made problems.
How can £900 fines in Notts be anything to do with the EU ?
GMC keeps telling us how we often win from the human rights act, and again as fashionable as it is to knock it, I don't think as the world gets smaller that we can trust internal governments to protect our 'Rights' like we used to.
As we all complain about our national government, not being popularly elected, the same applies to EU parliament, but on a larger scale.
Not at all blatant...
I have very mixed feelings about the EU, but I think many of our so called problems with the EU are not EU made problems.
How can £900 fines in Notts be anything to do with the EU ?
GMC keeps telling us how we often win from the human rights act, and again as fashionable as it is to knock it, I don't think as the world gets smaller that we can trust internal governments to protect our 'Rights' like we used to.
As we all complain about our national government, not being popularly elected, the same applies to EU parliament, but on a larger scale.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
hmmm
FourPart;1481218 wrote: The banking crisis was not the fault of 'the' Government. It was a worldwide thing - something that conveniently tends to get overlooked when it comes to political mudslinging. None of the Governments had any control over anything.
It was not the fault of our government alone, but governments regulate how banks go about their business, and they failed to intervene or to regulate properly the property boom that helped to cause the failure of the banking system.
Are you forgetting the PPI debacle and the fines governments slap on banks for money laundering and other bad practices, which are all part of how the authorities could have stepped in to put a brake on the excesses of the banks.
It was not the fault of our government alone, but governments regulate how banks go about their business, and they failed to intervene or to regulate properly the property boom that helped to cause the failure of the banking system.
Are you forgetting the PPI debacle and the fines governments slap on banks for money laundering and other bad practices, which are all part of how the authorities could have stepped in to put a brake on the excesses of the banks.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
hmmm
FourPart;1481218 wrote: The banking crisis was not the fault of 'the' Government. It was a worldwide thing - something that conveniently tends to get overlooked when it comes to political mudslinging. None of the Governments had any control over anything. It was purely a matter of excessive greed getting out of control until the house of cards finally came tumbling down. Then the Government bails them out, while the bankers still continue to award themselves obnoxious bonuses, while they continue to run things at a loss, and the Government allows them to do it, even though at this point the banks are technically Government owned. Now the Government is deciding to sell off the banks, which were paid for by the tax payers, at a fraction of their market value. And what do you think the political sympathies of those potential shareholders are likely to be? Hmm?
The bank are not som kind of supranational organisation they're regulatd by govrnments. Remember the big bang? It was thatcher that turned mutual societies in to banks allowing stort term gain to take priority over good long term governence it was thatcher that removed the seperation between retail an investment banking all ideologically driven short trem economic policies that forgot why the banks were so strictly cntrolled in the first place. It was Gordon Brown as chancellor that allowed 125% morgages so that all those poor people in london could afford a house instead of letting market forces slow down price rised he threw petrol on an inflationary fire. That's what brought down Nortehern rock an other lack of regulation and the tupidity of manging directors from the retail rather than the banking sector.
It was even worse in america where the heavy hand of regulation was released to allow the financial sctor to flourish.
I could go on and on, none of this financial crisis" just happened" nor is it the case that the governments had no control they just forgot their responsibilities in the name of a demented economic theory called monetarism that has no basdis in reality it is squarely on the doorstep of greedy bankers and governments so far up the backside of financial institutions they spokew ith one voice. There were plenty of people warning about what was going to happen they were all laughd at or found themslves unemployed. Fred the shred (RBS) sacke evry seniior manager that opposed him replacing them with sycophants same at the halifax/bank of scotland.
posted by bruv
As we all complain about our national government, not being popularly elected, the same applies to EU parliament, but on a larger scale.
Th myth that we have to blindly follow evry single eu directive is just that, a myth it's the interprtation by our courts an other organisations that cause th problem. We no longer live in a liberl democracy it's a right wing state run for the benefit of a few where all political discourse has devolved to chidish insults and someone eating a bacon sandwich become headline news. Its pathetic.
The bank are not som kind of supranational organisation they're regulatd by govrnments. Remember the big bang? It was thatcher that turned mutual societies in to banks allowing stort term gain to take priority over good long term governence it was thatcher that removed the seperation between retail an investment banking all ideologically driven short trem economic policies that forgot why the banks were so strictly cntrolled in the first place. It was Gordon Brown as chancellor that allowed 125% morgages so that all those poor people in london could afford a house instead of letting market forces slow down price rised he threw petrol on an inflationary fire. That's what brought down Nortehern rock an other lack of regulation and the tupidity of manging directors from the retail rather than the banking sector.
It was even worse in america where the heavy hand of regulation was released to allow the financial sctor to flourish.
I could go on and on, none of this financial crisis" just happened" nor is it the case that the governments had no control they just forgot their responsibilities in the name of a demented economic theory called monetarism that has no basdis in reality it is squarely on the doorstep of greedy bankers and governments so far up the backside of financial institutions they spokew ith one voice. There were plenty of people warning about what was going to happen they were all laughd at or found themslves unemployed. Fred the shred (RBS) sacke evry seniior manager that opposed him replacing them with sycophants same at the halifax/bank of scotland.
posted by bruv
As we all complain about our national government, not being popularly elected, the same applies to EU parliament, but on a larger scale.
Th myth that we have to blindly follow evry single eu directive is just that, a myth it's the interprtation by our courts an other organisations that cause th problem. We no longer live in a liberl democracy it's a right wing state run for the benefit of a few where all political discourse has devolved to chidish insults and someone eating a bacon sandwich become headline news. Its pathetic.
hmmm
Bruv;1481228 wrote: I have very mixed feelings about the EU, but I think many of our so called problems with the EU are not EU made problems.
How can £900 fines in Notts be anything to do with the EU ?
GMC keeps telling us how we often win from the human rights act, and again as fashionable as it is to knock it, I don't think as the world gets smaller that we can trust internal governments to protect our 'Rights' like we used to.
As we all complain about our national government, not being popularly elected, the same applies to EU parliament, but on a larger scale.
That's not what I said, Bruv. I said that the Judiciary are pandering to LOCAL GOVT. "cash-cow" strategies. Nothing to do with the EU (can't blame them for everything, we've quite enough corruption issues of our own!)
Hope this clarifies things somewhat.
How can £900 fines in Notts be anything to do with the EU ?
GMC keeps telling us how we often win from the human rights act, and again as fashionable as it is to knock it, I don't think as the world gets smaller that we can trust internal governments to protect our 'Rights' like we used to.
As we all complain about our national government, not being popularly elected, the same applies to EU parliament, but on a larger scale.
That's not what I said, Bruv. I said that the Judiciary are pandering to LOCAL GOVT. "cash-cow" strategies. Nothing to do with the EU (can't blame them for everything, we've quite enough corruption issues of our own!)
Hope this clarifies things somewhat.
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
hmmm
gmc;1481217 wrote: Simply looking at the cost of eu membership is a red herring - simple headlines that stops any real rational debate on the subject. Same with the european courts - the number of decisions against the UK is less than 3% and it's not just not just about asylum seekers - for examplre part time workers for local authoprities won their case agaisnt theior emplyers for discriminating against them, keeping them out of superannuation schemes and not allowing sick pay etc etc, their only option was thn european court now local autrhortities bleat about the cost but they should not have discriminated in the first place.
The real cost to us is the failure to collect taxes from big companies and letting them amake ll thei profits here and take any benefit out of the country. The banking crisis was the fault of government and crooked bankers why the hell shluld we pay for a bunch of crooks who got away with it? Time and time again it's ben demonsrated that low wages and punishing the poor does nothing tio help- the economy. It's not even good capitaism it's simply bad economics. Monetariam has got to be one of the biggest cons in history and idiots lke thatcher and you fell for it.
Also you're not factoring in to the equation the cost of all the war we have got in to for absolutely no benefit. Therte are right wing publications that carry screds on the ost of the welfare state since ww2 (forgetting there wasn't one before then). The UK was completly bankrupt after ww2 we only recently paid it off recently. The cost ti the economy ofm margeret thatchers privatisations is also not ever brought in to the equation, we now subsidiose thye railways more than we did before it was privatised power comopanies are demanding subsidies to invest in infrastructure - what happend to all the prifits over the last thirty years.
All you ever do is come out with the same old mantra you've been sucked in to a specious argument that doesn't stand up to five minutes thought.
Sometimes capitalism really is theft and the kind we have been conned in to accepting is.
£40 billion cost per annum is some big "red herring", one that we can ill-afford at present!! And what about the THOUSANDS of laws enacted upon us by the EU, all without being ratified by Parliament? And all the "red tape"? And it's associated costs! If there's one thing that annoys me, it's "one way vision" over Europe. I can see the "pros" AND "cons"of belonging, rather than slavishly extolling the "pros" alone. And don't call me an idiot either, nor compare me to "Twatcher"! I never had a say in the matter, did you?
Or are you another of these people who feels it's fine to be as insulting as you like online, safe behind your keyboard and screen?
The real cost to us is the failure to collect taxes from big companies and letting them amake ll thei profits here and take any benefit out of the country. The banking crisis was the fault of government and crooked bankers why the hell shluld we pay for a bunch of crooks who got away with it? Time and time again it's ben demonsrated that low wages and punishing the poor does nothing tio help- the economy. It's not even good capitaism it's simply bad economics. Monetariam has got to be one of the biggest cons in history and idiots lke thatcher and you fell for it.
Also you're not factoring in to the equation the cost of all the war we have got in to for absolutely no benefit. Therte are right wing publications that carry screds on the ost of the welfare state since ww2 (forgetting there wasn't one before then). The UK was completly bankrupt after ww2 we only recently paid it off recently. The cost ti the economy ofm margeret thatchers privatisations is also not ever brought in to the equation, we now subsidiose thye railways more than we did before it was privatised power comopanies are demanding subsidies to invest in infrastructure - what happend to all the prifits over the last thirty years.
All you ever do is come out with the same old mantra you've been sucked in to a specious argument that doesn't stand up to five minutes thought.
Sometimes capitalism really is theft and the kind we have been conned in to accepting is.
£40 billion cost per annum is some big "red herring", one that we can ill-afford at present!! And what about the THOUSANDS of laws enacted upon us by the EU, all without being ratified by Parliament? And all the "red tape"? And it's associated costs! If there's one thing that annoys me, it's "one way vision" over Europe. I can see the "pros" AND "cons"of belonging, rather than slavishly extolling the "pros" alone. And don't call me an idiot either, nor compare me to "Twatcher"! I never had a say in the matter, did you?
Or are you another of these people who feels it's fine to be as insulting as you like online, safe behind your keyboard and screen?
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
hmmm
Smaug;1481280 wrote: £40 billion cost per annum is some big "red herring", one that we can ill-afford at present!! And what about the THOUSANDS of laws enacted upon us by the EU, all without being ratified by Parliament? And all the "red tape"? And it's associated costs! If there's one thing that annoys me, it's "one way vision" over Europe. I can see the "pros" AND "cons"of belonging, rather than slavishly extolling the "pros" alone. And don't call me an idiot either, nor compare me to "Twatcher"! I never had a say in the matter, did you, or anyone else?
Or are you another of these people who feels it's fine to be as insulting as you like online, safe behind your keyboard and screen?
I apologise for calling you an idiot - I get carried away sometimes. To me this is impersonal I haven't a clue who you are whether make or female and not being a tolkein fan it's only sheer chance that your chosen for the forum led to a eureka moment when I saw smaug mentioned somewhere.
Actually I was one of the millioms who voted against thatcher and as like today over two thirds of the voting poopulation voted against the tories and yet they are in power. Our political system is badly flawed and is causing us grerat harm. Monetarism is an idiotic economic theory imo it copmpletely misses the salient point that financial policy is meaningless without viable agriculture and industry, no economy ever grew or industrty develop because if anything a banker did. Thatcher was one of the most desructive prime ministers of the last century it annoys me intensely so many seem to venerate her. The inflation of the seventies wasn't caused by the money supply any more than the present economic crisis was.
I can see the pros and cons of being in europe as well, the pros outweigh the cons by a substantial margin, UKIP et al don't really put a coherent argumemnt. You really think we will negotiate with the americans on an equal basis?
How about an example of EU laws enacted on us without the ratifcation of parliament. You say thousands you should be able to come up with one. You do know for instance the treaty of maastricht was ratified by parliament as was the treaty of Lisbon - eu law only has supremacy of parliament allows it all the things you find so objectionable have been ratified by parliament whether you like it or not we don't need to allow eu immigrants access to our benefit system every other country in europe puts controls in place. Places like austria unles you have paid in you can't take out.
maybe should have had a referendum in 1992 but we didn't - god bless the tories you know you can trust them. labour are indescribeable and the lib/dems ah what could have been.
Or are you another of these people who feels it's fine to be as insulting as you like online, safe behind your keyboard and screen?
I apologise for calling you an idiot - I get carried away sometimes. To me this is impersonal I haven't a clue who you are whether make or female and not being a tolkein fan it's only sheer chance that your chosen for the forum led to a eureka moment when I saw smaug mentioned somewhere.
Actually I was one of the millioms who voted against thatcher and as like today over two thirds of the voting poopulation voted against the tories and yet they are in power. Our political system is badly flawed and is causing us grerat harm. Monetarism is an idiotic economic theory imo it copmpletely misses the salient point that financial policy is meaningless without viable agriculture and industry, no economy ever grew or industrty develop because if anything a banker did. Thatcher was one of the most desructive prime ministers of the last century it annoys me intensely so many seem to venerate her. The inflation of the seventies wasn't caused by the money supply any more than the present economic crisis was.
I can see the pros and cons of being in europe as well, the pros outweigh the cons by a substantial margin, UKIP et al don't really put a coherent argumemnt. You really think we will negotiate with the americans on an equal basis?
How about an example of EU laws enacted on us without the ratifcation of parliament. You say thousands you should be able to come up with one. You do know for instance the treaty of maastricht was ratified by parliament as was the treaty of Lisbon - eu law only has supremacy of parliament allows it all the things you find so objectionable have been ratified by parliament whether you like it or not we don't need to allow eu immigrants access to our benefit system every other country in europe puts controls in place. Places like austria unles you have paid in you can't take out.
maybe should have had a referendum in 1992 but we didn't - god bless the tories you know you can trust them. labour are indescribeable and the lib/dems ah what could have been.
hmmm
It doesn't make any difference if you're Pro or Anti EU. The fact is that the theory behind it all is that we are supposed to be a Democracy. When we had the referendum in the 70s it was whether or not to sign up to a European Trade Treaty (European Economic Community), which I have always been in favour of. It makes sound economic sense. However, the EEC has evolved into something totally different & had become a centralised Government, which we never voted for. It is nothing like what we voted for. We should, therefore, have the right to vote on whether or not we want to remain part of this central Government. There's nothing wrong with maintaining a Trade Agreement. We just don't need to be part of the United States of Europe.
The claims that we need the EU in order to survive economically is nonsense. If anything the reverse is true, as we import far more than we export. Furthermore, there are plenty of other countries within Europe that are not members of the EU, such as Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway & Switzerland. I don't see any of those having major financial difficulties. As for the overall economy of Europe - the value of the Euro has been a disaster. At least we got that right to stay out of it.
The claims that we need the EU in order to survive economically is nonsense. If anything the reverse is true, as we import far more than we export. Furthermore, there are plenty of other countries within Europe that are not members of the EU, such as Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway & Switzerland. I don't see any of those having major financial difficulties. As for the overall economy of Europe - the value of the Euro has been a disaster. At least we got that right to stay out of it.
hmmm
( Male, 47, ex-biker, Tolkien fan, you get the gist...)
Fair enough, GMC. Apology accepted; I also can get carried away sometimes, especially when discussing some of the plethora of imbeciles and intellectual pygmies holding power at present in various places around the world!!
I'm starting to regret mentioning EU lawmaking powers; it's more complex than I thought, in fact it looks like a bl**dy minefield!
https://fullfact.org/factchecks/proport ... by_eu-3073
It all adds up to the same thing, though. Brussels calls the shots, and we, as members, have to uphold EU law.
Fair enough, GMC. Apology accepted; I also can get carried away sometimes, especially when discussing some of the plethora of imbeciles and intellectual pygmies holding power at present in various places around the world!!
I'm starting to regret mentioning EU lawmaking powers; it's more complex than I thought, in fact it looks like a bl**dy minefield!
https://fullfact.org/factchecks/proport ... by_eu-3073
It all adds up to the same thing, though. Brussels calls the shots, and we, as members, have to uphold EU law.
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
hmmm
Cameron seems to think that most of the country is behind him in thinking we should remain part of the EU. This poll seems to indicate otherwise.
Poll: Should Britain stay in the EU or leave? - ITV News
Poll: Should Britain stay in the EU or leave? - ITV News
hmmm
FourPart;1481323 wrote: Cameron seems to think that most of the country is behind him in thinking we should remain part of the EU. This poll seems to indicate otherwise.
Poll: Should Britain stay in the EU or leave? - ITV News
Doesn't surprise me in the least, FourPart. Politicians ARE pretty delusional at times (most of the time, actually....How would we know how capable they are, if they didn't tell us...!) He could get a shock.
But so could we, especially if we end up with a "Bill of rights", as opposed to the human rights act. It'll probably be a "Bill of wrongs" instead. As Spot said in another post; "Bugger them all with large, blunt artifacts"
Indeed.
Sorry everyone, I really detest these mountebank "slimeballs".
Poll: Should Britain stay in the EU or leave? - ITV News
Doesn't surprise me in the least, FourPart. Politicians ARE pretty delusional at times (most of the time, actually....How would we know how capable they are, if they didn't tell us...!) He could get a shock.
But so could we, especially if we end up with a "Bill of rights", as opposed to the human rights act. It'll probably be a "Bill of wrongs" instead. As Spot said in another post; "Bugger them all with large, blunt artifacts"
Indeed.
Sorry everyone, I really detest these mountebank "slimeballs".
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.
hmmm
FourPart;1481323 wrote: Cameron seems to think that most of the country is behind him in thinking we should remain part of the EU. This poll seems to indicate otherwise.
Poll: Should Britain stay in the EU or leave? - ITV News
Johm redwood and alan johnstone? Come off it neither of them are exacty the brightest of the politicians. That's part of the problem you never actually get to hear any decent duscussions about it.
posted by smaug
I'm starting to regret mentioning EU lawmaking powers; it's more complex than I thought, in fact it looks like a bl**dy minefield!
Now you kow why I brought it up, the notion that we are helpless in face of the eu juggernaut is not exactly accurate. Take laws that have been due to europe - the working time directive, The UK got an opt out so now the minimum wage worker can work as many hours as he likes due to the largesse of the tories. You can choose not to of course plenty of work out there. Why is it cheaper fior a foreign corporation to shut down a british factory than one on the continent - that was another opt out. Look at all the health and safety regulation - it's not europe that is causing the problem just the idiots implementing the legislation.
I've yet to meet someone from ukip that can last more than five nminutes before they just start saying the same things iover and over again as if repetition makes for an argument.
Poll: Should Britain stay in the EU or leave? - ITV News
Johm redwood and alan johnstone? Come off it neither of them are exacty the brightest of the politicians. That's part of the problem you never actually get to hear any decent duscussions about it.
posted by smaug
I'm starting to regret mentioning EU lawmaking powers; it's more complex than I thought, in fact it looks like a bl**dy minefield!
Now you kow why I brought it up, the notion that we are helpless in face of the eu juggernaut is not exactly accurate. Take laws that have been due to europe - the working time directive, The UK got an opt out so now the minimum wage worker can work as many hours as he likes due to the largesse of the tories. You can choose not to of course plenty of work out there. Why is it cheaper fior a foreign corporation to shut down a british factory than one on the continent - that was another opt out. Look at all the health and safety regulation - it's not europe that is causing the problem just the idiots implementing the legislation.
I've yet to meet someone from ukip that can last more than five nminutes before they just start saying the same things iover and over again as if repetition makes for an argument.
hmmm
gmc;1481333 wrote: Johm redwood and alan johnstone? Come off it neither of them are exacty the brightest of the politicians. That's part of the problem you never actually get to hear any decent duscussions about it.
posted by smaug
Now you kow why I brought it up, the notion that we are helpless in face of the eu juggernaut is not exactly accurate. Take laws that have been due to europe - the working time directive, The UK got an opt out so now the minimum wage worker can work as many hours as he likes due to the largesse of the tories. You can choose not to of course plenty of work out there. Why is it cheaper fior a foreign corporation to shut down a british factory than one on the continent - that was another opt out. Look at all the health and safety regulation - it's not europe that is causing the problem just the idiots implementing the legislation.
I've yet to meet someone from ukip that can last more than five nminutes before they just start saying the same things iover and over again as if repetition makes for an argument.
Yes, there are many "elf and safety" jobsworths out there, busy justifying their salaries inventing more rules and regs that end up hindering the smooth or effective running of things more than they help, in quite a few instances.
I can think of a few!
posted by smaug
Now you kow why I brought it up, the notion that we are helpless in face of the eu juggernaut is not exactly accurate. Take laws that have been due to europe - the working time directive, The UK got an opt out so now the minimum wage worker can work as many hours as he likes due to the largesse of the tories. You can choose not to of course plenty of work out there. Why is it cheaper fior a foreign corporation to shut down a british factory than one on the continent - that was another opt out. Look at all the health and safety regulation - it's not europe that is causing the problem just the idiots implementing the legislation.
I've yet to meet someone from ukip that can last more than five nminutes before they just start saying the same things iover and over again as if repetition makes for an argument.
Yes, there are many "elf and safety" jobsworths out there, busy justifying their salaries inventing more rules and regs that end up hindering the smooth or effective running of things more than they help, in quite a few instances.
I can think of a few!
" To finish first, first you have to finish!" Rick Mears. 4x Winner Indy 500. 3x Indycar National Champion.