What a tremendous achievement. India has successfully put a satellite into orbit around Mars. We in Britain have shamefully abandoned any national role in space for fifty years, it's to India's credit that they have prioritized high-grade engineering and research to the extent that they can succeed at this level. If they push ahead and establish colonies off-world I'll be even more pleased.
India has success with cut price mission to Mars - Asia - World - The Independent
Mangalyaan
Mangalyaan
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Mangalyaan
spot;1464928 wrote: What a tremendous achievement. India has successfully put a satellite into orbit around Mars. We in Britain have shamefully abandoned any national role in space for fifty years, it's to India's credit that they have prioritized high-grade engineering and research to the extent that they can succeed at this level. If they push ahead and establish colonies off-world I'll be even more pleased.
India has success with cut price mission to Mars - Asia - World - The Independent
While we're still paying out Millions to them in Humanitarian Aid.
Who's really paying to fund their Space Program?
India has success with cut price mission to Mars - Asia - World - The Independent
While we're still paying out Millions to them in Humanitarian Aid.
Who's really paying to fund their Space Program?
Mangalyaan
FourPart;1464939 wrote: While we're still paying out Millions to them in Humanitarian Aid.
Who's really paying to fund their Space Program?
What does "them" mean, exactly,, in this context? The Indian government, or Western aid agencies, or what?
Who's really paying to fund their Space Program?
What does "them" mean, exactly,, in this context? The Indian government, or Western aid agencies, or what?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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High Threshold
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Mangalyaan
spot;1464928 wrote: India has successfully put a satellite into orbit around Mars. ..... to India's credit that they have prioritized high-grade engineering and research .....
At the expense of the most wide-spread destitution that I have ever seen.
At the expense of the most wide-spread destitution that I have ever seen.
Mangalyaan
I could point out that the Americans have sent men to the moon, and they have people sleeping on the streets in New York.......I have seen em.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Mangalyaan
Bruv;1464953 wrote: I could point out that the Americans have sent men to the moon, and they have people sleeping on the streets in New York.......I have seen em.
The Americans weren't receiving aid from countries who also had people living on the streets & relying on Food Banks to get by, as well as being in dire economical straits themselves.
I find the whole Indian Space Program a disgrace.
The Americans weren't receiving aid from countries who also had people living on the streets & relying on Food Banks to get by, as well as being in dire economical straits themselves.
I find the whole Indian Space Program a disgrace.
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Mangalyaan
Bruv;1464953 wrote: I could point out that the Americans have sent men to the moon, and they have people sleeping on the streets in New York.......I have seen em.
All true. I've seen em too in San Francisco, etc.
FourPart;1464955 wrote: The Americans weren't receiving aid from countries who also had people living on the streets & relying on Food Banks to get by, as well as being in dire economical straits themselves..
Not a bad point at all.
All true. I've seen em too in San Francisco, etc.
FourPart;1464955 wrote: The Americans weren't receiving aid from countries who also had people living on the streets & relying on Food Banks to get by, as well as being in dire economical straits themselves..
Not a bad point at all.
Mangalyaan
What does "them" mean, exactly,, in the context of "While we're still paying out Millions to them in Humanitarian Aid"? The Indian government, or Western aid agencies, or what?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Mangalyaan
spot;1464957 wrote: What does "them" mean, exactly,, in the context of "While we're still paying out Millions to them in Humanitarian Aid"? The Indian government, or Western aid agencies, or what?
Be it via agencies or direct to the Indian Government, we are still paying out aid to them, when we can't afford it ourselves, only to see them spending it on a Space Program, which is of no real benefit to anyone.
Be it via agencies or direct to the Indian Government, we are still paying out aid to them, when we can't afford it ourselves, only to see them spending it on a Space Program, which is of no real benefit to anyone.
Mangalyaan
FourPart;1464962 wrote: Be it via agencies or direct to the Indian Government, we are still paying out aid to them, when we can't afford it ourselves, only to see them spending it on a Space Program, which is of no real benefit to anyone.
Ah - you have two "them"s in your sentence and they're different bodies. The Indian Government put up the Mars orbiter. The agencies took the aid grants. I can think of very few instances where Western aid agencies, or charities in general, have used aid grants or donations in a way which have been a net benefit to the societies they target, whether the target society is in the Third World or domestic.
Charities are a vile thing from many angles. Western Aid is a vile thing from many angles.
Don't blame the Indian Government for these appalling injustices. If you want to be useful, campaign against Western Aid Agencies in toto and against Registered Charities in toto. Leave the Indians out of it, they're innocent of this harmful process.
eta: for those who don't know, I'm against foreign aid. This earlier post hints at it, under the section "Foreign Aid".
Ah - you have two "them"s in your sentence and they're different bodies. The Indian Government put up the Mars orbiter. The agencies took the aid grants. I can think of very few instances where Western aid agencies, or charities in general, have used aid grants or donations in a way which have been a net benefit to the societies they target, whether the target society is in the Third World or domestic.
Charities are a vile thing from many angles. Western Aid is a vile thing from many angles.
Don't blame the Indian Government for these appalling injustices. If you want to be useful, campaign against Western Aid Agencies in toto and against Registered Charities in toto. Leave the Indians out of it, they're innocent of this harmful process.
eta: for those who don't know, I'm against foreign aid. This earlier post hints at it, under the section "Foreign Aid".
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Mangalyaan
Aid is all very well & good when & where it is needed. The point is that India should not be receiving aid when it can afford to run a Space Program, and consequentially we should not be subscribing into such a fund that pays it to them.
When we had the National Floods last year, making thousands homeless, I don't seem to remember us getting any International Aid when we needed it.
When we had the National Floods last year, making thousands homeless, I don't seem to remember us getting any International Aid when we needed it.
Mangalyaan
FourPart;1464970 wrote: Aid is all very well & good when & where it is needed.
Go on, take that idea into specific areas. When and where is it needed?
Go on, take that idea into specific areas. When and where is it needed?
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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High Threshold
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Mangalyaan
I am fascinated by space travel, but only from a philosophical point of view. I'm not impressed by America's or Russia's advances in the field of astronautics mainly because I give much more concern for humanity. Obviously, America's and Russia's flippant disregard for the plight of their own respective populations is worrying to me so their space research budget leaves me with no admiration for them at all. Then there's India. Good Lord! The squalor! If I could meet the man responsible for diverting funds to Indian space research, I'd put my boot 3 yards up his back side.
Attached files
Attached files
Mangalyaan
I'm impressed. India put a capsule in orbit around Mars for less money than was spent making the Hollywood movie Gravity. Very impressive.
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AnneBoleyn
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Mangalyaan
Bruv;1464953 wrote: I could point out that the Americans have sent men to the moon, and they have people sleeping on the streets in New York.......I have seen em.
In 1969 there was no homeless problem in the streets of NY. It started in the 1980's, when property values suddenly SOARED.
In 1969 there was no homeless problem in the streets of NY. It started in the 1980's, when property values suddenly SOARED.
Mangalyaan
High Threshold;1464974 wrote: I am fascinated by space travel, but only from a philosophical point of view. I'm not impressed by America's or Russia's advances in the field of astronautics mainly because I give much more concern for humanity. Obviously, America's and Russia's flippant disregard for the plight of their own respective populations is worrying to me so their space research budget leaves me with no admiration for them at all. Then there's India. Good Lord! The squalor! If I could meet the man responsible for diverting funds to Indian space research, I'd put my boot 3 yards up his back side.
There are two aspects to this.
Firstly, the money spent on the Mars orbiter is going to generate far more financial return and better jobs for a lot of Indian nationals than if it had been spent on immediate relief. There are good long-term reasons for putting national resources into high-tech industries in a developing country.
Secondly, no objective should be considered more immediately necessary or more urgent than getting human colonies established off-planet. If we fail to do that before we become extinct then we're gone for ever. If we have expanding colonies then the transient Earth-seed will flourish in a million ways. Short-term relief is unforgivable if it's at the expense of this epoch's life on Earth. Without space colonization, that's exactly what it would be.
There are two aspects to this.
Firstly, the money spent on the Mars orbiter is going to generate far more financial return and better jobs for a lot of Indian nationals than if it had been spent on immediate relief. There are good long-term reasons for putting national resources into high-tech industries in a developing country.
Secondly, no objective should be considered more immediately necessary or more urgent than getting human colonies established off-planet. If we fail to do that before we become extinct then we're gone for ever. If we have expanding colonies then the transient Earth-seed will flourish in a million ways. Short-term relief is unforgivable if it's at the expense of this epoch's life on Earth. Without space colonization, that's exactly what it would be.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Mangalyaan
AnneBoleyn;1464979 wrote: In 1969 there was no homeless problem in the streets of NY. It started in the 1980's, when property values suddenly SOARED.
Why?
Was it because too much money had been "invested" in foriegn campaigns ? And other speculative ventures ?
Why?
Was it because too much money had been "invested" in foriegn campaigns ? And other speculative ventures ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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AnneBoleyn
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Mangalyaan
I agree with spot completely.
Mangalyaan
AnneBoleyn;1464983 wrote: I agree with spot completely.
I wonder if he is related to Spock of Star Trek fame......far too logical.
I wonder if he is related to Spock of Star Trek fame......far too logical.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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AnneBoleyn
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Mangalyaan
Bruv;1464982 wrote: Why?
Was it because too much money had been "invested" in foriegn campaigns ? And other speculative ventures ?
No. It was because the Real Estate capitalists took over. We can't make more land, especially on an Island like Manhattan. Rents were forced up literally overnight & the yuppies, who were making good money in those times agreed to pay $1000 a month in a building where the average tenant was paying $150 a month. The landlords began forcing people out of their apartments, & the middle class lost their foothold. As for the working man, factory jobs in NYC disappeared. It was a takeover by the landed gentry.
I know what I'm talking about here, but don't want to go further off-topic cause someone will start hollering at me.
Was it because too much money had been "invested" in foriegn campaigns ? And other speculative ventures ?
No. It was because the Real Estate capitalists took over. We can't make more land, especially on an Island like Manhattan. Rents were forced up literally overnight & the yuppies, who were making good money in those times agreed to pay $1000 a month in a building where the average tenant was paying $150 a month. The landlords began forcing people out of their apartments, & the middle class lost their foothold. As for the working man, factory jobs in NYC disappeared. It was a takeover by the landed gentry.
I know what I'm talking about here, but don't want to go further off-topic cause someone will start hollering at me.
Mangalyaan
Quite frankly, I don't see any realistic possibility of colonising other planets, certainly not within the next few thousand years. Anything else is nothing more than Science Fiction.
Any wealth gained from the Space Project will merely increase the wealth of the already wealthy, whilst the poor continue to get poorer. This is not a 'may' happen - it's a 'will' happen. We've seen it happen far too many times at home and abroad in all cultures. It's human nature. "I'm All Right Jack".
Any wealth gained from the Space Project will merely increase the wealth of the already wealthy, whilst the poor continue to get poorer. This is not a 'may' happen - it's a 'will' happen. We've seen it happen far too many times at home and abroad in all cultures. It's human nature. "I'm All Right Jack".
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AnneBoleyn
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Mangalyaan
Any wealth gained from any project increases the wealth of the already wealthy 4Pt.
Mangalyaan
FourPart;1464987 wrote: Quite frankly, I don't see any realistic possibility of colonising other planets, certainly not within the next few thousand years. Anything else is nothing more than Science Fiction.Very few educated people would have thought, a hundred years ago, that the extent of the current space program was achievable, and yet some of them lived to see the moon landings.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
Mangalyaan
AnneBoleyn;1464986 wrote: No. It was because the Real Estate capitalists took over. We can't make more land, especially on an Island like Manhattan. Rents were forced up literally overnight & the yuppies, who were making good money in those times agreed to pay $1000 a month in a building where the average tenant was paying $150 a month. The landlords began forcing people out of their apartments, & the middle class lost their foothold. As for the working man, factory jobs in NYC disappeared. It was a takeover by the landed gentry.
I know what I'm talking about here, but don't want to go further off-topic cause someone will start hollering at me.
OK But this was not just a New York thing, it happened all across the US and UK and Ireland that I know about and probably the rest of Europe, all those Bankers again squeezing us, until they broke the system.
I know what I'm talking about here, but don't want to go further off-topic cause someone will start hollering at me.
OK But this was not just a New York thing, it happened all across the US and UK and Ireland that I know about and probably the rest of Europe, all those Bankers again squeezing us, until they broke the system.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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AnneBoleyn
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Mangalyaan
It started in NYC. It was a conglomeration that included Donald Trump & Mayor Edward Koch & the year was 1980 & also included international landholders. I studied the situation Very Carefully, step by step. If we say another word we'll be kidnapped & forced into a foreign land (a new thread).
Mangalyaan
AnneBoleyn;1464979 wrote: In 1969 there was no homeless problem in the streets of NY. It started in the 1980's, when property values suddenly SOARED.
and when Reagan emptied out the psych hospitals onto the streets.
and when Reagan emptied out the psych hospitals onto the streets.
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Mangalyaan
I agree that humans colonising other planets Is science fiction In that It could take a thousand years. It's not as simple as just sticking humans on a planet, an eco system has to be created for man to survive.
Having said that, when you think It was only 100 or so years ago we were running around In horse and cart, the development of technology has taken a giant leap forward. However, the notion of humans Inhabiting other planets depends on who Is selected to travel to those planets to save the human race.
Do you think a lowly Chinese surf will be selected ? Or an Indian villager living In poverty ? Or the disabled or the mentally Ill ?Of course not... It will be the movers and the shakers and It will come down to selection and the brains of the human race so If our planet disintegrates, most of the human race would be left behind.
Then It begs the question.... why should we be allowed to Infest and screw up another planet ? Why not take some responsibility for this one while we have chance?
Having said that, when you think It was only 100 or so years ago we were running around In horse and cart, the development of technology has taken a giant leap forward. However, the notion of humans Inhabiting other planets depends on who Is selected to travel to those planets to save the human race.
Do you think a lowly Chinese surf will be selected ? Or an Indian villager living In poverty ? Or the disabled or the mentally Ill ?Of course not... It will be the movers and the shakers and It will come down to selection and the brains of the human race so If our planet disintegrates, most of the human race would be left behind.
Then It begs the question.... why should we be allowed to Infest and screw up another planet ? Why not take some responsibility for this one while we have chance?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Mangalyaan
Wandrin;1465006 wrote: and when Reagan emptied out the psych hospitals onto the streets.
Thatcher did the same here "Care in The Community" they called it............right.
Thatcher did the same here "Care in The Community" they called it............right.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Mangalyaan
Oscar Namechange;1465008 wrote: Do you think a lowly Chinese surf will be selected ?
Why Not ?
Why Not ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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High Threshold
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Mangalyaan
Wandrin;1464976 wrote: I'm impressed. India put a capsule in orbit around Mars for less money than was spent making the Hollywood movie Gravity. Very impressive.
Yes. It's amazing what you can achieve by combining jeepney, tuk tuk, and motorized rickshaw technology.
Yes. It's amazing what you can achieve by combining jeepney, tuk tuk, and motorized rickshaw technology.
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Mangalyaan
Critics ask why Britain is giving £1.5bn in aid to six nations with space ambitions - UK Politics - UK - The Independent
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Mangalyaan
spot;1464980 wrote: Firstly, the money spent on the Mars orbiter is going to generate far more financial return and better jobs for a lot of Indian nationals than if it had been spent on immediate relief. There are good long-term reasons for putting national resources into high-tech industries in a developing country.
Rather than waste my time stringing sentences together I'll just just include a quote by someone who's already said it for me:
FourPart;1464987 wrote: Any wealth gained from the Space Project will merely increase the wealth of the already wealthy, whilst the poor continue to get poorer. This is not a 'may' happen - it's a 'will' happen. We've seen it happen far too many times at home and abroad in all cultures. It's human nature. "I'm All Right Jack".
..... and then .......
spot;1464980 wrote: Secondly, no objective should be considered more immediately necessary or more urgent than getting human colonies established off-planet. If we fail to do that before we become extinct then we're gone for ever. If we have expanding colonies then the transient Earth-seed will flourish in a million ways. Short-term relief is unforgivable if it's at the expense of this epoch's life on Earth. Without space colonization, that's exactly what it would be.
“no objective ¦... more immediately necessary or more urgent? Ouch! That hurt! Are you sleep-walking?
You wouldn't consider cleaning up our environment and ceasing the destruction of this planet as an even more immediate necessity and urgency?
Rather than waste my time stringing sentences together I'll just just include a quote by someone who's already said it for me:
FourPart;1464987 wrote: Any wealth gained from the Space Project will merely increase the wealth of the already wealthy, whilst the poor continue to get poorer. This is not a 'may' happen - it's a 'will' happen. We've seen it happen far too many times at home and abroad in all cultures. It's human nature. "I'm All Right Jack".
..... and then .......
spot;1464980 wrote: Secondly, no objective should be considered more immediately necessary or more urgent than getting human colonies established off-planet. If we fail to do that before we become extinct then we're gone for ever. If we have expanding colonies then the transient Earth-seed will flourish in a million ways. Short-term relief is unforgivable if it's at the expense of this epoch's life on Earth. Without space colonization, that's exactly what it would be.
“no objective ¦... more immediately necessary or more urgent? Ouch! That hurt! Are you sleep-walking?
You wouldn't consider cleaning up our environment and ceasing the destruction of this planet as an even more immediate necessity and urgency?
Mangalyaan
High Threshold;1465018 wrote: You wouldn't consider cleaning up our environment and ceasing the destruction of this planet as an even more immediate necessity and urgency?I don't care if you leave this planet a smoking lifeless cinder so long as expanding colonies begin to populate the galaxy. The benefits outweigh the cost by startling orders of magnitude.
I think there will be a permanent colony on the moon in my lifetime. I also think it will be exclusively Chinese.
As for the Independent headline "Critics ask why Britain is giving £1.5bn in aid to six nations with space ambitions", I'd ask why any country is giving any aid whatever to any other country whether they have space ambitions or not. Aid is corrosive and destructive. Disaster relief is a different matter, but aid is just war by stealth.
I think there will be a permanent colony on the moon in my lifetime. I also think it will be exclusively Chinese.
As for the Independent headline "Critics ask why Britain is giving £1.5bn in aid to six nations with space ambitions", I'd ask why any country is giving any aid whatever to any other country whether they have space ambitions or not. Aid is corrosive and destructive. Disaster relief is a different matter, but aid is just war by stealth.
Nullius in verba ... ☎||||||||||| ... To Fate I sue, of other means bereft, the only refuge for the wretched left.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
When flower power came along I stood for Human Rights, marched around for peace and freedom, had some nooky every night - we took it serious.
Who has a spare two minutes to play in this month's FG Trivia game! ... My other OS is Slackware.
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Mangalyaan
spot;1465024 wrote: I don't care if you leave this planet a smoking lifeless cinder so long as expanding colonies begin to populate the galaxy.
I'm removing your name from the list of guests to my next birthday party. Oh, and you won't be getting any more reminders of the up-coming PPP do - Punters' Protest against Pollution.
I'm removing your name from the list of guests to my next birthday party. Oh, and you won't be getting any more reminders of the up-coming PPP do - Punters' Protest against Pollution.
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Oscar Namechange
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Mangalyaan
FourPart;1464970 wrote: Aid is all very well & good when & where it is needed. The point is that India should not be receiving aid when it can afford to run a Space Program, and consequentially we should not be subscribing into such a fund that pays it to them.
When we had the National Floods last year, making thousands homeless, I don't seem to remember us getting any International Aid when we needed it.
First of all, It wasn't that long ago India told Britain that they didn't need our aid as they are becoming one of the fastest progressive countries In their own right.
From what I know, our aid Is not being spent on this space project but education. It wasn't that long ago, one of the Tabloids ( think It was the Telegraph ) was complaining that India had spent our aid on laptops for school children.
By complaining that India Is spending money on space exploration, what you're really saying Is that the country should forever remain undeveloped because only us Westerners can have the luxury of technology.
Of course there's squalor and poverty In India. There's also poverty and squalor In England... Why are British children going to school without breakfast while the government squanders billions on Illegal wars and occupations ?
When we had the National Floods last year, making thousands homeless, I don't seem to remember us getting any International Aid when we needed it.
First of all, It wasn't that long ago India told Britain that they didn't need our aid as they are becoming one of the fastest progressive countries In their own right.
From what I know, our aid Is not being spent on this space project but education. It wasn't that long ago, one of the Tabloids ( think It was the Telegraph ) was complaining that India had spent our aid on laptops for school children.
By complaining that India Is spending money on space exploration, what you're really saying Is that the country should forever remain undeveloped because only us Westerners can have the luxury of technology.
Of course there's squalor and poverty In India. There's also poverty and squalor In England... Why are British children going to school without breakfast while the government squanders billions on Illegal wars and occupations ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Mangalyaan
AnneBoleyn;1464989 wrote: Any wealth gained from any project increases the wealth of the already wealthy 4Pt.
Isn't that what I said?
Oscar Namechange;1465017 wrote: Critics ask why Britain is giving £1.5bn in aid to six nations with space ambitions - UK Politics - UK - The Independent
Precisely.
Oscar Namechange;1465029 wrote: First of all, It wasn't that long ago India told Britain that they didn't need our aid as they are becoming one of the fastest progressive countries In their own right.
From what I know, our aid Is not being spent on this space project but education. It wasn't that long ago, one of the Tabloids ( think It was the Telegraph ) was complaining that India had spent our aid on laptops for school children.
By complaining that India Is spending money on space exploration, what you're really saying Is that the country should forever remain undeveloped because only us Westerners can have the luxury of technology.
Of course there's squalor and poverty In India. There's also poverty and squalor In England... Why are British children going to school without breakfast while the government squanders billions on Illegal wars and occupations ?
This is my point exactly. They have already said that they don't need our aid. They are one of the worlds richest nations. They should not be receiving aid. As spot has stated:
I'd ask why any country is giving any aid whatever to any other country whether they have space ambitions or not. Aid is corrosive and destructive. Disaster relief is a different matter, but aid is just war by stealth. .
My friend, Ebe, is from Uganda / Tanzania & tells me how he has seen how the Aid Workers come in & invest all the funds, do all the work, then leave them to get on with it, and without the Aid Workers to do all the work nothing more gets done & things revert to exactly the situation it was in to start with.
As I have previously said, Aid is all very well & good, in its place, once again as Spot has agreed with, by citing the example of disaster relief, but any other aid should be left to Voluntary Charity Organisations, not being compulsorily taken from our taxes when we are suffering from major austerity cuts ourselves.
The reason we have such a large & ever increasing National Debt is because we BORROW (rightly or wrongly) with the intention of paying our debts back. We do not accept charity payments from all & sundry, whilst diverting those funds into unnecessary projects.
I'm not arguing the point that there is desperation & squalor in these countries, but just what good is the aid really doing? It's clearly not getting to where it's needed. Does the woman living in the street, insufficiently nourished herself to provide milk with which to feed her starving children have that much need of a Space Program. Does the state of untreated sewage in the streets, due to the lack of public sanitation require a Space Program? Does the water supply, infested with sewage & disease benefit from a Space Program. These are the sort of things that the aid goes to help with, yet it ends up supporting a Space Program.
If the funding were shown to reach those that needed it, and it were shown that the country's own Government were doing their part to alleviate the situation, then that might be a different matter, but a Space Program? Aid should have been withdrawn as soon as it was announced.
They clearly have money to spare. Let them spend it on those that need it instead of letting us continue to subsidise everything for them.
Charity begins at home.
Isn't that what I said?
Oscar Namechange;1465017 wrote: Critics ask why Britain is giving £1.5bn in aid to six nations with space ambitions - UK Politics - UK - The Independent
Precisely.
Oscar Namechange;1465029 wrote: First of all, It wasn't that long ago India told Britain that they didn't need our aid as they are becoming one of the fastest progressive countries In their own right.
From what I know, our aid Is not being spent on this space project but education. It wasn't that long ago, one of the Tabloids ( think It was the Telegraph ) was complaining that India had spent our aid on laptops for school children.
By complaining that India Is spending money on space exploration, what you're really saying Is that the country should forever remain undeveloped because only us Westerners can have the luxury of technology.
Of course there's squalor and poverty In India. There's also poverty and squalor In England... Why are British children going to school without breakfast while the government squanders billions on Illegal wars and occupations ?
This is my point exactly. They have already said that they don't need our aid. They are one of the worlds richest nations. They should not be receiving aid. As spot has stated:
I'd ask why any country is giving any aid whatever to any other country whether they have space ambitions or not. Aid is corrosive and destructive. Disaster relief is a different matter, but aid is just war by stealth. .
My friend, Ebe, is from Uganda / Tanzania & tells me how he has seen how the Aid Workers come in & invest all the funds, do all the work, then leave them to get on with it, and without the Aid Workers to do all the work nothing more gets done & things revert to exactly the situation it was in to start with.
As I have previously said, Aid is all very well & good, in its place, once again as Spot has agreed with, by citing the example of disaster relief, but any other aid should be left to Voluntary Charity Organisations, not being compulsorily taken from our taxes when we are suffering from major austerity cuts ourselves.
The reason we have such a large & ever increasing National Debt is because we BORROW (rightly or wrongly) with the intention of paying our debts back. We do not accept charity payments from all & sundry, whilst diverting those funds into unnecessary projects.
I'm not arguing the point that there is desperation & squalor in these countries, but just what good is the aid really doing? It's clearly not getting to where it's needed. Does the woman living in the street, insufficiently nourished herself to provide milk with which to feed her starving children have that much need of a Space Program. Does the state of untreated sewage in the streets, due to the lack of public sanitation require a Space Program? Does the water supply, infested with sewage & disease benefit from a Space Program. These are the sort of things that the aid goes to help with, yet it ends up supporting a Space Program.
If the funding were shown to reach those that needed it, and it were shown that the country's own Government were doing their part to alleviate the situation, then that might be a different matter, but a Space Program? Aid should have been withdrawn as soon as it was announced.
They clearly have money to spare. Let them spend it on those that need it instead of letting us continue to subsidise everything for them.
Charity begins at home.
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Oscar Namechange
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Mangalyaan
And do you think our taxes go to every single Mother to feed her children?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Mangalyaan
Oscar Namechange;1465031 wrote: And do you think our taxes go to every single Mother to feed her children?
Even we don't have the perfect system, but if it weren't for the Benefits system things would be a hell of a lot worse. People dying because they can't afford to see a doctor. Not being able to afford to eat, thus not being fit enough to work, in order to afford to get something to eat. We've seen all this in our history. One of the biggest campaigners for change was Charles Dickens. Now things are steadily on the slide back to those conditions, while the rich continue to get richer & the poor continue to get poorer of the taxes of those who can ill afford it themselves. That much is bad enough, but to have a sizeable proportion of those taxes to go to fund another country which is doing the same sort of thing, only on a much larger scale totally beggars belief.
Even we don't have the perfect system, but if it weren't for the Benefits system things would be a hell of a lot worse. People dying because they can't afford to see a doctor. Not being able to afford to eat, thus not being fit enough to work, in order to afford to get something to eat. We've seen all this in our history. One of the biggest campaigners for change was Charles Dickens. Now things are steadily on the slide back to those conditions, while the rich continue to get richer & the poor continue to get poorer of the taxes of those who can ill afford it themselves. That much is bad enough, but to have a sizeable proportion of those taxes to go to fund another country which is doing the same sort of thing, only on a much larger scale totally beggars belief.
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Oscar Namechange
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Mangalyaan
Distribution of wealth Is a very lovely socialist Idea but In reality It never happens.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Mangalyaan
What I glean from this thread is the Indian government are bar stewards with no regard or knowledge of the HUGE population's culture or situation.
The UK is sliding back into Dickensian style poverty, and we will be colonising the moon within 15-25 years
Or did I read too much into it ?
The UK is sliding back into Dickensian style poverty, and we will be colonising the moon within 15-25 years
Or did I read too much into it ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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Mangalyaan
Bruv;1465050 wrote:
Or did I read too much into it ? Yes
Or did I read too much into it ? Yes
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
Mangalyaan
Oscar Namechange;1465054 wrote: Yes
Thank goodness I thought I had slipped into a parrellel existance
Thank goodness I thought I had slipped into a parrellel existance
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Mangalyaan
One of India's hopes is that projects like this space mission that they designed and constructed will give their tech sector more credibility. The way I heard it from an Indian engineer, they are a little tired of all of the low level tech outsourcing sent their way and would like to move up a notch or two to where their tech companies are given whole projects to handle and those that they self-initiate are taken more seriously.
Mangalyaan
Wandrin;1465067 wrote: One of India's hopes is that projects like this space mission that they designed and constructed will give their tech sector more credibility. The way I heard it from an Indian engineer, they are a little tired of all of the low level tech outsourcing sent their way and would like to move up a notch or two to where their tech companies are given whole projects to handle and those that they self-initiate are taken more seriously.
Yesterday the Earth, tomorrow Mars, next the Universe.
Yesterday the Earth, tomorrow Mars, next the Universe.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth