God-Damned America

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:43 am

jones jones;1457365 wrote: You suggested I debate you Sergeant and I am quite happy to do so. Perhaps we have a different interpretation of the word?

So you're folding without a fight?

Post by **jones jones** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:48 am

Saint_;1457363 wrote: Hey JJ, discuss the gun craziness. That was the original thread. It kind of led to the fact that Americans are gun crazy, and then Americans are just violence crazy, and then to Vietnam. But we should get back on track with the guns.

"Gun crazy?" I wouldn't go that far Leslie.

Let us consider the following: Compared to the United States, where do the following stand as regards "gun crazy" in terms of killing?

Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Palestine, CAR, Ukraine, Pakistan, Afghanistan, South Sudan, Darfur, Mali ... shall I go on?

Post by **jones jones** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:53 am

High Threshold;1457366 wrote: So you're folding without a fight?

I could say: "I hate going into a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent" but I'm too much of a gentleman to say that.

I'm a pacifist by nature. I'm sure a fiery debate between us will draw a crowd of guests, but in the long run?

I have a novel to finish before year end and I really have nothing much else to say except that I will defend your right to free speech come what may.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:55 am

Yawn.

Post by **jones jones** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:56 am

High Threshold;1457371 wrote: Yawn.

If i were you I'd be very very grateful at being let off the hook.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:57 am

High Threshold;1457364 wrote: Have you seen that YouTube compilation of all the Bill Reilly "shut up! ... cut off his mic!" clips? It's great.

ROFLMAO! You're right. That was hilarious!

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 11:58 am

jones jones;1457372 wrote: If i were you I'd be very very grateful at being let off the hook.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz .............

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:00 pm

Saint_;1457373 wrote: ROFLMAO! You're right. That was hilarious!

I saw it yesteday for the first time. I was just clicking away and there it was! Jesus! How is it possible for such a program to have a liscens?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:30 pm

Worth a thousand words.

recovering conservative;1457342 wrote: Early this morning, when I posted that comment, there was something going wrong with FG and I actually thought that attempt to post failed. And all the pages started freezing up, so I didn't get a chance to post a second comment dealing specifically with the gun crimes issue that was the theme of the OP.

And I'll continue with that theme.

recovering conservative;1457342 wrote: The first thing I wanted to focus on was the simple point that a picture is worth a thousand words. I came across this blog entry yesterday, showing a map displaying all of the school shootings in America since the infamous Sandy Hook Shootings:

That was not new to me, and already been debunked, largely for padding the numbers and overall misrepresentation.

Everytown for Gun Safety is an activist organization against law-abiding citizens carrying firearms. It was founded by Michael Bloomberg and Shannon Watts, and as The Blaze reports, headlines that 1.37 school shootings have occurred â€œevery single week in the U.S. since the deadly 2012 shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary in Newtown, Connecticut.â€

No surprise, when it came out with its list of â€˜every school shooting since Sandy Hook,â€™ it crammed every conceivable case onto it so as to make it appear like armed criminals were attacking our schools every week.

So, using Sandy Hook as the starting point and running until todayâ€™s tragic Oregon school shooting, what do these datapoints represent? Well, it turns out that they represent all sorts of things. They turn out to be â€œassaults, homicides, suicides, and accidental shootingsâ€ that happen â€œinside a school building or on school or campus grounds.â€

Letâ€™s just note for the record here that 95%+ of these areas are in so-called â€œgun-free zonesâ€ before moving on. In other words, they have perfect gun control regimes in theory.

Anyway, journalist Charles C. Johnson wanted a closer look at the cases that Everytown was portraying as â€œschool shootings.â€

ijrreview

If that not good enough, go to CNN

Honesty, in my book goes a long way.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:39 pm

tude dog;1457379 wrote: ......... If that not good enough, go to CNN

CNN: Second in line to FuxNews for the crown in blatent, biased reporting. Yes, I'll be trusting them alright. :wah:

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:01 am

High Threshold;1457419 wrote: CNN: Second in line to FuxNews for the crown in blatent, biased reporting. Yes, I'll be trusting them alright. :wah:

In other words you didn't read the post and have no idea of the subject and felt compelled to comment anyway.

Figures.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:05 am

tude dog;1457447 wrote: In other words you didn't read the post and have no idea of the subject and felt compelled to comment anyway.

Figures.

I critisized CNN. Do you have a problem with that? Perhaps you hold stock in it, but that's not my fault.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:16 am

High Threshold;1457448 wrote: I critisized CNN. Do you have a problem with that? Perhaps you hold stock in it, but that's not my fault.

OK

Tell me, just what was blatent, biased reporting in that CNN link I provided.

BTW, it was only one of several alternative links containing the same information I could have used.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:27 am

tude dog;1457449 wrote: OK

Tell me, just what was blatent, biased reporting in that CNN link I provided.

NOTHING, as far as I know. You are correct, I "didn't read the post". I merely critsized CNN because their reporting is (generally speaking) blatently biased.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 5:42 am

High Threshold;1457450 wrote: NOTHING, as far as I know. You are correct, I "didn't read the post". I merely critsized CNN because their reporting is (generally speaking) blatently biased.

Good move. Talking smack is a lot easier.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:20 am

tude dog;1457451 wrote: Good move. Talking smack is a lot easier.

Is my opinion so important to you? You said yourself the CNN report is only one of several sources sharing your view so why so much energy spent on upholding it? You're not worried that my criticism will convince others to avoid CNN, are you? Shouldn't its credibility (or lack of) speak for itself?

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 6:27 am

"Huck mir nisht a chynick, and I don't mean efsher!"

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:04 am

Oy Gevalt!

PS--I know Muslin is a cloth, I said it Reminded me!

Kish'm Tuchas! You know you want to! :yh_laugh

eta--There is a slight possibility I'm confusing threads.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:15 am

AnneBoleyn;1457460 wrote: Kish'm Tuchas! You know you want to! :yh_laugh

Yes it's true, but only if my wife will approve. I somehow dobut it. :yh_sad

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:24 am

jones jones;1457368 wrote: "Gun crazy?" I wouldn't go that far Leslie.

Let us consider the following: Compared to the United States, where do the following stand as regards "gun crazy" in terms of killing?

Syria, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, Palestine, CAR, Ukraine, Pakistan, Afghanistan, South Sudan, Darfur, Mali ... shall I go on?

You named countries that are at war. America is supposedly at peace within it's own borders, yet we suffer casualty rates comparable to countries at war.

Just look at this:

America has a problem with gun violence

One in three people in the U.S. know someone who has been shot.

On average, 32 Americans are murdered with guns every day and 140 are treated for a gun assault in an emergency room.

Every day on average, 51 people kill themselves with a firearm, and 45 people are shot or killed in an accident with a gun.

The U.S. firearm homicide rate is 20 times higher than the combined rates of 22 countries that are our peers in wealth and population.

A gun in the home is 22 times more likely to be used to kill or injure in a domestic homicide, suicide, or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense.

Gun Violence Takes a Massive Toll on American Children

More than one in five U.S. teenagers (ages 14 to 17) report having witnessed a shooting.

An average of eight children and teens under the age of 20 are killed by guns every day.

American children die by guns 11 times as often as children in other high-income countries.

Youth (ages 0 to 19) in the most rural U.S. counties are as likely to die from a gunshot as those living in the most urban counties. Rural children die of more gun suicides and unintentional shooting deaths. Urban children die more often of gun homicides.

Firearm homicide is the second-leading cause of death (after motor vehicle crashes) for young people ages 1-19 in the U.S.

In 2007, more pre-school-aged children (85) were killed by guns than police officers were killed in the line of duty.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:27 am

To put it in perspective, over thirty thousand Americans will die by guns this year. That's 15 times the number of casualties from Iraq and Afghanistan combined for the entire decade.

And we do that every single year.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:36 am

High Threshold;1457456 wrote: Is my opinion so important to you?

Not really.

High Threshold;1457456 wrote: You said yourself the CNN report is only one of several sources sharing your view

It is not about sharing a view. It is a report about the dishonest claim by the EVERY TOWN FOR GUN SAFETY which was the basis of the map presented in post number 40 of this thread.

High Threshold;1457456 wrote: why so much energy spent on upholding it?

For me it's not about CNN. It is your lack of substance which interests me.

High Threshold;1457456 wrote: You're not worried that my criticism will convince others to avoid CNN, are you? Shouldn't its credibility (or lack of) speak for itself?

I only pointed out that the report from CNN was one of several available. If you were not so focused on CNN, you would realize that my first source was a site, Independent Journal Review You never bothered to read my post so you wouldn't know that.

Since I know nothing about IJR, I decided to find a back up. CNN looked to be an easy read. Something even you might be able to digest.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:38 am

High Threshold;1457461 wrote: Yes it's true, but only if my wife will approve. I somehow dobut it. :yh_sad

That's ok. She can do it instead. Just Kidding, REALLY!

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 7:44 am

High Threshold;1457459 wrote: "Huck mir nisht a chynick, and I don't mean efsher!"

You keep coming back for more and I feel in a giving mood.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 8:20 am

Saint_;1457464 wrote: To put it in perspective, over thirty thousand Americans will die by guns this year. That's 15 times the number of casualties from Iraq and Afghanistan combined for the entire decade.

And we do that every single year.

12,664 murders in 2011, down from 14,916 in 2007 FBI

2010 - Firearm suicides

- Number of deaths: 19,392 CDC

That somebody uses a firearm for suicide is a logical choice.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:02 am

Saint_;1457463 wrote: You named countries that are at war. America is supposedly at peace within it's own borders, yet we suffer casualty rates comparable to countries at war ......

Exactly. That is the depressing thing of it. Americans are killing one another for sport, it seems.

I've heard pro-gun people say that it isn't the gun that kills, rather the person pulling the trigger. Well, OK. So when we look at the statistics it looks VERY clear to me that if guns are only murderous in the hands of the wrong people then the U.S. ought certainly be the last country on earth to be allowed to carry them.

But it angers Americans when I say that, so let's be scientific. Just for sake of discussion, let's say that the abundance of guns in the U.S. would have the same effect in the hands of citizens in other countries. In the name of science would it be a good idea to arm the rest of the world, just to test the theory? I have a much better idea: Let's remove guns from the Americans and see if their rate goes down instead:

1. Now, if the murder rate does go down then we still won't know if it's "the gun" or "the American" that's the danger to the population, but at least your murder rate will decrease, and hey ........ that's a pretty good thing!

2. If, however, the American murder rate is not affected by lack of guns (thanks to an increase of murder by way of knives, poison, beatings, strangulation, Drano forced down the oesophagus, etc.) then we'll know FOR SURE that Americans are the most murderous bunch of people on the face of this earth and we may just as well give them their guns back and make it easier for them.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:13 am

AnneBoleyn;1457466 wrote: That's ok. She can do it instead. Just Kidding, REALLY!

Hold it right there, varmint! If you want a smoocher from me on your tushie then I think it is only fair to ask ........ Are we talking Fran Drescher tush or Mahalia Jackson?

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:14 am

tude dog;1457473 wrote: 12,664 murders in 2011, down from 14,916 in 2007

Where are you getting that? This is what I'm seeing and it's from the CDC, the government's own data.

IN ONE YEAR ON AVERAGE* (all ages)

More than 100,000 people in America are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, accidents, or by police intervention.

31,346 people die from gun violence:

12,035 people are murdered.

18,117 people kill themselves.

601 people are killed accidentally.

343 are killed by police intervention.

251 die but intent is not known.

74,835 people survive gun injuries:

53,890 people are injured in an attack.

3,753 people survive a suicide attempt.

16,405 people are shot accidentally.

787 people are shot by police intervention.

ï¿¼ï¿¼IN ONE YEAR ON AVERAGE* (ages 0-19)

More than 18,000 American children and teens are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, accidents, or by police intervention.

2,955 kids die from gun violence:

2,010 children and teens are murdered.

749 children and teens kill themselves.

133 children and teens killed accidentally.

23 are killed by police intervention.

41 die but the intent was unknown.

EVERY DAY ON AVERAGE* (all ages)

15,945 kids survive gun injuries:

12,334 are injured in an attack.

301 survive a suicide attempt.

3,235 are shot accidentally.

74 are shot in a police intervention.

ï¿¼ï¿¼Every day, 291 people in America are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, accidents, and police intervention.

Every day, 86 people die from gun violence: 33 are murdered; 50 kill themselves; 2 die accidentally; 1 is killed by police intervention; 1, intent unknown.

Every day, 205 are shot and survive: 148 shot in an assault; 10 survive a suicide attempt; 45 are shot accidentally, 2 are shot in a police intervention.

EVERY DAY ON AVERAGE* (ages 0-19)

Every day, 52 children and teens are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, accidents, and police intervention.

Every day, 8 children and teens die from gun violence: 6 are murdered; 2 kill themselves.

Every day, 44 children and teens are shot and survive: 34 shot in an assault; 1 survives a suicide attempt; 9 are shot accidentally.

* The most recent five years of data from death certificates (2006-2010) and estimates of emergency room admissions (2008-2012) available via CDCâ€™s National Center for Injury Prevention and Controlâ€™s Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System, www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/. Data retrieved 3.20.14. Numbers may not sum to 100% because of rounding.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:14 am

tude dog;1457465 wrote: Not really.

Yes really.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:15 am

Saint_;1457482 wrote: Where are you getting that?

I'll bet he's getting it from CNN. :wah:

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:39 am

Numbers may not sum to 100% because of rounding.

Near enough is good enough..........what a chilling end note.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 9:57 am

In a way, you could say that America is engaged in Civil War....but without any clearcut sides.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 10:59 am

Thank you Saint

I like statistics.

Saint_;1457482 wrote: Where are you getting that? This is what I'm seeing and it's from the CDC, the government's own data.

IN ONE YEAR ON AVERAGE* (all ages)

More than 100,000 people in America are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, accidents, or by police intervention.

31,346 people die from gun violence:

12,035 people are murdered.

18,117 people kill themselves.

601 people are killed accidentally.

343 are killed by police intervention.

251 die but intent is not known.

74,835 people survive gun injuries:

53,890 people are injured in an attack.

3,753 people survive a suicide attempt.

16,405 people are shot accidentally.

787 people are shot by police intervention.

ï¿¼ï¿¼IN ONE YEAR ON AVERAGE* (ages 0-19)

More than 18,000 American children and teens are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, accidents, or by police intervention.

2,955 kids die from gun violence:

2,010 children and teens are murdered.

749 children and teens kill themselves.

133 children and teens killed accidentally.

23 are killed by police intervention.

41 die but the intent was unknown.

EVERY DAY ON AVERAGE* (all ages)

15,945 kids survive gun injuries:

12,334 are injured in an attack.

301 survive a suicide attempt.

3,235 are shot accidentally.

74 are shot in a police intervention.

ï¿¼ï¿¼Every day, 291 people in America are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, accidents, and police intervention.

Every day, 86 people die from gun violence: 33 are murdered; 50 kill themselves; 2 die accidentally; 1 is killed by police intervention; 1, intent unknown.

Every day, 205 are shot and survive: 148 shot in an assault; 10 survive a suicide attempt; 45 are shot accidentally, 2 are shot in a police intervention.

EVERY DAY ON AVERAGE* (ages 0-19)

Every day, 52 children and teens are shot in murders, assaults, suicides & suicide attempts, accidents, and police intervention.

Every day, 8 children and teens die from gun violence: 6 are murdered; 2 kill themselves.

Every day, 44 children and teens are shot and survive: 34 shot in an assault; 1 survives a suicide attempt; 9 are shot accidentally.

* The most recent five years of data from death certificates (2006-2010) and estimates of emergency room admissions (2008-2012) available via CDCâ€™s National Center for Injury Prevention and Controlâ€™s Web-based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System, www.cdc.gov/ncipc/wisqars/. Data retrieved 3.20.14. Numbers may not sum to 100% because of rounding.

These are raw numbers, a good place to start.

Now, seems to me, where do we go from there?

I tend towards the "who is doing the murdering"? That is my biggest concern which not to minimize the tragedy the misuse of firearms in other situations.

That was quite an exhaustive list and somethings like,

2,955 kids die from gun violence:

2,010 children and teens are murdered.

I dunno what that means, but that isn't important.

No matter how we as a society decide to deal with this, banning guns is a no starter. There are various feel good laws on the books which do nothing and sometimes overturned by the courts.

More guns are sold every year, and murder rates go down. {edt not claiming a direct connection

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:10 am

tude dog;1457503 wrote: No matter how we as a society decide to deal with this, banning guns is a no starter.

Back to square one then.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:26 am

High Threshold;1457483 wrote: Yes really.

Your opinion is for chit.

Would be nice if you could do something other than talking BS and having temper tantrums.

I told you.

Keep coming back, I am in a giving mood.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:37 am

tude dog;1457507 wrote: Keep coming back, I am in a giving mood.

Is that a pen in your pocket ?

Snowfire · Post by **Snowfire** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:38 am

tude dog;1457503 wrote:

No matter how we as a society decide to deal with this, banning guns is a no starter. There are various feel good laws on the books which do nothing and sometimes overturned by the courts.

More guns are sold every year, and murder rates go down. {edt not claiming a direct connection

Well we can always make sure that those who love their guns get a new way of ripping rounds through human flesh. Some people know no bounds !

‘The Last Round You’ll Ever Need’: The Awesome New Bullet Billed as a ‘One-Shot Manstopper’ | TheBlaze.com

It so incredibly sad that their are people on this earth who will justify this "progress"

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:40 am

Bruv;1457504 wrote: Back to square one then.

I dunno what that means.

I don't know of any single source which would back up my claim, but overall, American gun rights have been improving in the past years. Gun sales are more than strong.

But yet, gun related deaths are declining. FBI

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:45 am

Saint_;1457493 wrote: In a way, you could say that America is engaged in Civil War....but without any clearcut sides.

Let us use the JFK/LBJ term and call it "a Conflict".

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:46 am

tude dog;1457507 wrote: Your opinion is for chit.

Would be nice if you could do something other than talking BS and having temper tantrums.

I told you.

Keep coming back, I am in a giving mood.

Silly person.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:46 am

Bruv;1457513 wrote: Is that a pen in your pocket ?

The girth would be right.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:53 am

tude dog;1457516 wrote: ..... gun related deaths are declining. FBI

The FBI? Are you joking? First CNN, now FBI .... soon you'll be telling us it's the CIA who's top of the list of credible sources. :yh_cow:yh_pig:yh_clown

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:59 am

High Threshold;1457484 wrote: I'll bet he's getting it from CNN. :wah:

I don't know what Saint was getting at, but the links were available in my post #75 of this thread.

Saint is a gentleman and I just went by it as I was impressed by the very comprehensive link from the CDC he supplied.

You throw a temper tantrum, come back and expect to be taken seriously.:wah:

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 12:50 pm

High Threshold;1457522 wrote: The FBI? Are you joking?

Problem being?

You have a problem with the numbers, why?

Give me your credible source you have to dispute the FBI numbers, please.:yh_worshp

We the people needs to know

It would be a revelation earning you a place in the history books.

That is not to mention the gratitude of a grateful nation

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:12 pm

High Threshold;1457520 wrote: Silly person.

Just throw out another temper tantrum.

Got nothing else.

LOSER

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 1:27 pm

Radically Invasive Projectile RIP..................laugh..............I nearly died

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:10 pm

tude dog;1457503 wrote: banning guns is a no starter.

Yet they were able to pull it off in both Australia and Japan. Basically, they phased guns out over a period of a half century by making it harder and harder to purchase guns and ammunition. I'm all for that.

A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths - Max Fisher - The Atlantic

To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 2:20 pm

Sarcasm Alert

But Saint........the criminals will ignore the Law.

Criminals always get hold of guns if they want them.

Japanese are all submissive to their government.

Wonder how many commit hari kari every year?

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:48 pm

tude dog;1457531 wrote: LOSER

Is that one of those personal insults we're not allowed to use on the forum?

:yh_cow:yh_chickn:yh_pig

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri Jun 13, 2014 11:58 pm

Bruv;1457541 wrote: Sarcasm Alert

Thanks for the warning. I nearly missed it.

Bruv;1457541 wrote: ........the criminals will ignore the Law.

Criminals always get hold of guns if they want them.

Hmmmm. Now that ought to be incentive for the U.S. to do what they can in cleaning up their guns 'across the board', although the gun baffoonery say it's one reason why they need more. You know, a 45 and a couple of AK 47's (one of them with that cool, wooden stock) and perhaps a bazooka. I'll ask our good friend to access CNN and the FBI files (just to be on the safe side) but I seem to remember statistics saying the greatest number of guns in the hands of American criminals were originally stolen from the legal, personal cachÃ© of the gun baffoonery.