Let's argue the toss, sorry, I mean debate this.
Lee Rigby denied a memorial on the grounds that It may attract Extremists.
Does Stephen Lawrence's memorial attract white racists? Not that I am aware of.
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While we're on the subject...
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Oscar Namechange
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While we're on the subject...
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
While we're on the subject...
Show me please where whoever permits memorials has in fact denied a memorial to Rigby.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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While we're on the subject...
Bruv;1455332 wrote: Show me please where whoever permits memorials has in fact denied a memorial to Rigby.
BBC News - Lee Rigby murder: Calls for Woolwich memorial rejected
BBC News - Lee Rigby murder: Calls for Woolwich memorial rejected
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
While we're on the subject...
Why do either one of them deserve a memorial.
If we memorialize every person who was a victim of some dastardly act, there will soon be no place left to build anything else.
If we memorialize every person who was a victim of some dastardly act, there will soon be no place left to build anything else.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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Oscar Namechange
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While we're on the subject...
LarsMac;1455334 wrote: Why do either one of them deserve a memorial.
If we memorialize every person who was a victim of some dastardly act, there will soon be no place left to build anything else.
Stephen Lawrence deserved a Memorial because his murder by ( alleged ) white racists changed many ways that Britain viewed racism. It was a defining moment In British history.
Likewise, the murder of Lee Rigby was unprecedented and brought beheadings and terror to the Streets of London. That day too, will, we believe, change the course of history for It too was the defining moment In history.
If we memorialize every person who was a victim of some dastardly act, there will soon be no place left to build anything else.
Stephen Lawrence deserved a Memorial because his murder by ( alleged ) white racists changed many ways that Britain viewed racism. It was a defining moment In British history.
Likewise, the murder of Lee Rigby was unprecedented and brought beheadings and terror to the Streets of London. That day too, will, we believe, change the course of history for It too was the defining moment In history.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
While we're on the subject...
A campaign for a memorial to murdered soldier Lee Rigby has been rejected.
The local council kicked it out despite nearly 12,000 people backing it online.
Campaigners including Lee’s mum Lyn wanted it near the spot where the fusilier , 25, was hacked to death close to Woolwich Barracks, South East London.
Greenwich Council said it would only consider requests made through the Army.
I am wondering why the Lawrence memorial springs so easily to mind..........is this the race baiting you speak of?
The local council kicked it out despite nearly 12,000 people backing it online.
Campaigners including Lee’s mum Lyn wanted it near the spot where the fusilier , 25, was hacked to death close to Woolwich Barracks, South East London.
Greenwich Council said it would only consider requests made through the Army.
I am wondering why the Lawrence memorial springs so easily to mind..........is this the race baiting you speak of?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
While we're on the subject...
Oscar Sellotape;1455336 wrote: Stephen Lawrence deserved a Memorial because his murder by ( alleged ) white racists changed many ways that Britain viewed racism. It was a defining moment In British history.
Likewise, the murder of Lee Rigby was unprecedented and brought beheadings and terror to the Streets of London. That day too, will, we believe, change the course of history for It too was the defining moment In history.
Beheadings Plural ?
I must have missed something.
Are you now denying there was a racist element in the Lawrence murder and investigation?
Likewise, the murder of Lee Rigby was unprecedented and brought beheadings and terror to the Streets of London. That day too, will, we believe, change the course of history for It too was the defining moment In history.
Beheadings Plural ?
I must have missed something.
Are you now denying there was a racist element in the Lawrence murder and investigation?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
While we're on the subject...
From what Nick Raynsford has said in the BBC article, his reasons are legitimate even if we disagree with them.
It doesn't need to be made into an either or competition between the memorial for Stephen Lawrences and Lee Rigby. The Stephen Lawrence memorial doesnt need to be part of the conversation.
It will happen with a bit of sensible dialogue and not because people like to play the race card yet again
It doesn't need to be made into an either or competition between the memorial for Stephen Lawrences and Lee Rigby. The Stephen Lawrence memorial doesnt need to be part of the conversation.
It will happen with a bit of sensible dialogue and not because people like to play the race card yet again
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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Oscar Namechange
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While we're on the subject...
Bruv;1455340 wrote: Beheadings Plural ?
I must have missed something.
Are you now denying there was a racist element in the Lawrence murder and investigation? The Met were undoubtedly racist In the manner they carried out the subsequent Inquiries but for his killers, I'll stick with ' alleged ; simply because no-one knows. The guilty have not all been prosecuted and there Is doubt on the two serving time. Regardless, no-one there on the night has ever admitted any part or that It was Indeed racist... we only have that assumption by police and media.
I must have missed something.
Are you now denying there was a racist element in the Lawrence murder and investigation? The Met were undoubtedly racist In the manner they carried out the subsequent Inquiries but for his killers, I'll stick with ' alleged ; simply because no-one knows. The guilty have not all been prosecuted and there Is doubt on the two serving time. Regardless, no-one there on the night has ever admitted any part or that It was Indeed racist... we only have that assumption by police and media.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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Oscar Namechange
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While we're on the subject...
Snowfire;1455341 wrote: From what Nick Raynsford has said in the BBC article, his reasons are legitimate even if we disagree with them.
It doesn't need to be made into an either or competition between the memorial for Stephen Lawrences and Lee Rigby. The Stephen Lawrence memorial doesnt need to be part of the conversation.
It will happen with a bit of sensible dialogue and not because people like to play the race card yet again It's bait racism. No-one Is saying SL does not deserve a memorial... he does... but the question asked Is ' why a memorial for one young man who changed history and not the other'. They are comparing the two because of the circumstances of each murder. One was carried out borne of hatred and the other was carried out borne of hatred. Why not a memorial for both?
It doesn't need to be made into an either or competition between the memorial for Stephen Lawrences and Lee Rigby. The Stephen Lawrence memorial doesnt need to be part of the conversation.
It will happen with a bit of sensible dialogue and not because people like to play the race card yet again It's bait racism. No-one Is saying SL does not deserve a memorial... he does... but the question asked Is ' why a memorial for one young man who changed history and not the other'. They are comparing the two because of the circumstances of each murder. One was carried out borne of hatred and the other was carried out borne of hatred. Why not a memorial for both?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
While we're on the subject...
Oscar Sellotape;1455346 wrote: It's bait racism. No-one Is saying SL does not deserve a memorial... he does... but the question asked Is ' why a memorial for one young man who changed history and not the other'. They are comparing the two because of the circumstances of each murder. One was carried out borne of hatred and the other was carried out borne of hatred. Why not a memorial for both?
I haven't questioned the validity for a memorial for Lee Rigby. I would support such a memorial. It's what most people want including Muslim groups.
My objection is why it Stephen Lawrence needs to be dragged into it.
The argument FOR stands on it's own merit without the **** that these debates inevitably carry with them
I haven't questioned the validity for a memorial for Lee Rigby. I would support such a memorial. It's what most people want including Muslim groups.
My objection is why it Stephen Lawrence needs to be dragged into it.
The argument FOR stands on it's own merit without the **** that these debates inevitably carry with them
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
While we're on the subject...
Oscar Sellotape;1455346 wrote: Why not a memorial for both?
Greenwich Council said it would only consider requests made through the Army.
Watch my lips..........read the links
Greenwich Council said it would only consider requests made through the Army.
Watch my lips..........read the links
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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fuzzywuzzy
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While we're on the subject...
May I ask why a memorial is needed in the first place? He was a victim of a murder..why a memorial? Doesn't matter what the murderers used as their reasoning or defence . It's still just a publicised murder.
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Oscar Namechange
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While we're on the subject...
Snowfire;1455352 wrote: I haven't questioned the validity for a memorial for Lee Rigby. I would support such a memorial. It's what most people want including Muslim groups.
My objection is why it Stephen Lawrence needs to be dragged into it.
The argument FOR stands on it's own merit without the **** that these debates inevitably carry with them Stephen Lawrence gets brought Into It because as some members have said here, what makes one murder deserve a memorial and other murders don't? SL changed history. LR will change history. Both are defining moments In the British way of life that means we will never view something the same again. That Is what sets them apart from every other murder. And If SL Is to be Immortalised for changing racism In this country, why shouldn't we do likewise for LR ?
My objection is why it Stephen Lawrence needs to be dragged into it.
The argument FOR stands on it's own merit without the **** that these debates inevitably carry with them Stephen Lawrence gets brought Into It because as some members have said here, what makes one murder deserve a memorial and other murders don't? SL changed history. LR will change history. Both are defining moments In the British way of life that means we will never view something the same again. That Is what sets them apart from every other murder. And If SL Is to be Immortalised for changing racism In this country, why shouldn't we do likewise for LR ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
While we're on the subject...
Oscar Sellotape;1455363 wrote: Stephen Lawrence gets brought Into It because as some members have said here, what makes one murder deserve a memorial and other murders don't? SL changed history. LR will change history. Both are defining moments In the British way of life that means we will never view something the same again. That Is what sets them apart from every other murder. And If SL Is to be Immortalised for changing racism In this country, why shouldn't we do likewise for LR ?
I don't really see the connection, there.
The Lawrence case was an exposure of the the legal system, as much as anything else.
Rigby was just an unfortunate bloke who got hacked by a couple of nutcase.
Besides, perhaps the events and the affect that those events had on society do not necessarily warrant memorializing the poor sod whose offing triggered them.
Memorials to individuals should be reserved for people who DID something for civilization, not just some poor schmuck who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Just MHO.
I don't really see the connection, there.
The Lawrence case was an exposure of the the legal system, as much as anything else.
Rigby was just an unfortunate bloke who got hacked by a couple of nutcase.
Besides, perhaps the events and the affect that those events had on society do not necessarily warrant memorializing the poor sod whose offing triggered them.
Memorials to individuals should be reserved for people who DID something for civilization, not just some poor schmuck who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Just MHO.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
-
Oscar Namechange
- Posts: 31842
- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
While we're on the subject...
LarsMac;1455364 wrote: I don't really see the connection, there.
The Lawrence case was an exposure of the the legal system, as much as anything else.
Rigby was just an unfortunate bloke who got hacked by a couple of nutcase.
Besides, perhaps the events and the affect that those events had on society do not necessarily warrant memorializing the poor sod whose offing triggered them.
Memorials to individuals should be reserved for people who DID something for civilization, not just some poor schmuck who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Just MHO. Fair enough. Politicians listened to Stephens Mother when she asked for him to be Immortalised. Lee Rigby's family have asked for somewhere and something for all to remember him by and have been denied.
The Lawrence case was an exposure of the the legal system, as much as anything else.
Rigby was just an unfortunate bloke who got hacked by a couple of nutcase.
Besides, perhaps the events and the affect that those events had on society do not necessarily warrant memorializing the poor sod whose offing triggered them.
Memorials to individuals should be reserved for people who DID something for civilization, not just some poor schmuck who was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Just MHO. Fair enough. Politicians listened to Stephens Mother when she asked for him to be Immortalised. Lee Rigby's family have asked for somewhere and something for all to remember him by and have been denied.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon