Religious Slaughter

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:20 pm

I very nearly agree with the Tude.

I reckon the rules that apply to Halal were probably rules to standardise slaughter to make them more humane, the blessing something to remind them of the value of life.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:31 pm

AnneBoleyn;1455059 wrote: Bet you can't kick that high. Can you?

Ahhhhh! When I was young I could do many things!

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:36 pm

High Threshold;1455073 wrote: Ahhhhh! When I was young I could do many things!

Sigh. Me too.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:44 pm

AnneBoleyn;1455077 wrote: Sigh. Me too.

BTW. I was singing "Bensonhurst Blues" with my friend from Flatbush and she tells me that Bensonhurst is overrun with Russians these days. Is that true? Are they Jewish at least?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:46 pm

tude dog;1455067 wrote: It's always been Jewish tradition that slaughter of an animal be done in the most humane way.

I read much of this thread but never really understood the problem with how we slaughter the animal.

One problem for some of you is a blessing, thankful to G-d that he permits us to eat that animal.

The highest form of Kashrut is vegetarianism.

G-d knew vegetarianism was not happening so we have rules.

I disagree. Why does G-d require animal sacrifice? Why did G-d prefer Abel's sacrifice to Cain's?

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:51 pm

AnneBoleyn;1455082 wrote: Why does G-d require animal sacrifice? Why did G-d prefer Abel's sacrifice to Cain's?

Again with the questions already?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:51 pm

High Threshold;1455081 wrote: BTW. I was singing "Bensonhurst Blues" with my friend from Flatbush and she tells me that Bensonhurst is overrun with Russians these days. Is that true? Are they Jewish at least?

Your friend is correct, sir, although there are now more Chinese in Bensonhurst than Russians. Not all the Russians are Jewish. The Russian Mafia's usually are not. The first Russians to move here about 30 yrs ago, were all Jewish. They were the Refuseniks.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:53 pm

High Threshold;1455085 wrote: Again with the questions already?

ALWAYS with the questions. The answer always requires a new Question. It's a Quest, a search for knowledge! As well as being a yenta.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:54 pm

AnneBoleyn;1455086 wrote: Your friend is correct, sir, although there are now more Chinese in Bensonhurst than Russians. Not all the Russians are Jewish. The Russian Mafia's usually are not. The first Russians to move here about 30 yrs ago, were all Jewish. They were the Refuseniks.

Thanks for the info, but enough with the "sir" monkey business.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:55 pm

AnneBoleyn;1455087 wrote: ALWAYS with the questions. The answer always requires a new Question. It's a Quest, a search for knowledge! As well as being a yenta.

I should have guessed.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Thu May 22, 2014 1:57 pm

I must go now. I wish all a Good Evening.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Thu May 22, 2014 2:16 pm

AnneBoleyn;1455082 wrote: I disagree. Why does G-d require animal sacrifice?

Should be, why did G-d require animal sacrifice?We don't do that anymore.

AnneBoleyn;1455082 wrote: Why did G-d prefer Abel's sacrifice to Cain's?

Depends on who you listen to.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Thu May 22, 2014 8:38 pm

tude dog;1455093 wrote: Should be, why did G-d require animal sacrifice?We don't do that anymore.

Not "doing it anymore" is a separate issue beside what G-d requires.

What makes you believe that G-d actually DID require it ....... and how would you know if you ARE simply being disobedient if He DID and still DOES require it?

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Thu May 22, 2014 11:30 pm

What's with this G-d thing?

Are we talking about God or god but are afraid of his awesome power so much we cannot bring ourselves to utter the name ?

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri May 23, 2014 1:15 am

Bruv;1455107 wrote: What's with this G-d thing?

How dare you!!!!! :yh_ooooo:yh_nailbi

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri May 23, 2014 5:45 am

High Threshold;1455105 wrote: Not "doing it anymore" is a separate issue beside what G-d requires.

What makes you believe that G-d actually DID require it ....... and how would you know if you ARE simply being disobedient if He DID and still DOES require it?

The people at the time believed it. We've managed without animal sacrifice for two thousand years. I don't see any great push to resume that practice.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri May 23, 2014 5:50 am

fuzzywuzzy;1455108 wrote: I'll tell you my take on this g-d. sacrifice.

One . you know where your food came from if you do it yourself and you know how it was slaughtered and you own that slaughter.

Two . nothing you have raised from birth you would want suffering. It's just not in us to do that. That's where the old traditions come in . that's why their is a blessing ..because you can understand it.

But we don't have that kind of premise for meat anymore ...........it's all wholesale butchering. Which brings me to the halal thing. It doesn't matter how they do it in a slaughter house, the same **** goes. It's still en masse. It means nothing . halal, western, kosher......means absolutely nothing . They still suffer.

So unless you're going to buy your own lamb calf or piglet .....shut he hell up!!!!! ..............the seperation between your food source and yourselves is widening. Either get on board or just shut up !!!!

I am not impressed by empty assertions and have no idea what I am suppose to get aboard on.

And NO, I will speak up as I want.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri May 23, 2014 6:51 am

tude dog;1455115 wrote: The people at the time believed it.

I understand that very well but ..... THAT IS NOT THE POINT. Please read your own words (here below) and understand them. I'd love to avoid the Bible bash, round in circles of the a la sheep fashion.

tude dog;1455093 wrote: Should be, why did G-d require animal sacrifice?We don't do that anymore.

So ..... let me ask you ONE MORE TIME ....... what makes you think that G-d required animal sacrifice? I will accept either a direct quote from the Torah or a rational, intelligent, motivated reasoning.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 23, 2014 7:24 am

The word that stands out to me In all this Is Ritual Slaughter.

The animal Is blessed In the name of Allah, The Holy Q'ran original scriptures. Yet, we have people who openly critisize the Bible on this forum for being re-written yet are happy to see an animal slaughtered In some 7th century prayer from scriptures that have also been re-written. Hypocrisy !

Then there Is law. We have strict animal welfare laws that are being breached by exempting Halal slaughter. So by that example, as a country, do we then exempt terrorist bombers from prosecution because they carried out their atrocity In the name of religion? Hypocrisy !

The there Is the actual blessing of the animal In the name of Allah. Now should any of you actually sit down with Muslims and discuss this subject then you'll find that no, they would not eat food blessed In the name of Jesus Christ. Two, they would probably riot In the streets If they found food blessed In the name of Christ slipped Into their school meals, Supermarkets and take-out chains unlabelled and without their knowledge. Three Muslims In this country are now fearful that because It's developed Into a scandal where the British have been duped Into buying Halal meat without their knowledge, there may even be attacks on Halal Butchers.

So who has created this fear ? Not the Far Right by far. It Is a spineless, gutless government who have allowed a minority to dominate the majority surreptitiously and without vote.

British Sikh's do not want their food blessed In the name of Allah. British Hindu's do not want their food blessed In the name of Allah. British Jews don't, Japanese don't, Chinese Don't, African Christians don't, Atheists don't, and The majority of the country, British Christians don't and every other minority In Britain doesn't. Yet what our governments have done Is allow one minority to take precedent over the majority and all other minorities In appeasement and In turn disrespect and Ignore every other faith In this country. So fearful are they that they may upset one minority religion, Halal has been allowed to enter our shops, schools, prisons etc etc without our knowledge and that Is fraudulent of the British people. They know the Halal Industry Is worth billions and they know that If all Halal was clearly labelled, we would see boycotts by the masses of the giant food chains.

When religion Is able to dominate the largest Industry In a country ie, the food chain with total disregard to any other faith, then It is pandering, nothing else.

The British people have been duped, That Is the scandal not Halal per say. That Is why all Halal slaughterhouses need to be shut down In this country. They are causing discord and future racial unrest now the British people are fully aware at how they have been duped. Religion has no place In the largest Industry In the country. Slaughterhouses should be entirely neutral In order to respect and accept every religion, faith and race In this country.

It Is just another example of Injustice that see's the populace turn to the Far Right.

English man guilty of defrauding the welfare system goes to prison. Pakistani man does the same and goes free because his wife can't speak English and needs him. Latvian man walks free from attempted rape, English man gets 5 years. English man told to take his flag down, others get to fly theirs. A memorial for Stephen Lawrence, no memorial for Lee Rigby. So It goes on. For mass Immigration and Multiculturism to truely work and to move forward, there has to be a balance, fairness and equality and for racial tensions to succeed there has to be Injustices.

What then happens, Is with every Injustice, another few people turn to the Far Right. We are expecting major gains to UKIP when the Election results come In Sunday and UKIP are the Far Right. You have your middle Englander's who sit there tutting and despising the Far Right In this country and their stealth yet do nothing about the Injustices for fear of being labelled racist. Instead they accuse others.

Most Nationalists and Patriots do not want racial unrest. Yes, of course the Far Right has It's share of nutters just the same as the UAF Is made up of Far Left nutters but most Nationalist Parties seek for equality and fairness In all religions and races. When our Governments fail us on that, people turn to the Far Right as the a chance that equality and fairness will prevail. Yet, the Irony Is that those who despise the Far Right can not see that the biggest Industry In the country being dominated by one minority under false representation and my methods of duping the population only serves to garner more votes for them.

The nest thing they know, Is ten years from now, with a majority of far Right politicians In Westminster, they'll be whining that their welfare cheque has been stopped because the likes of Farage and Griffin think single Mothers who have never worked are benefit scroungers who contribute nothing to society. Then they'll be whining about how did this happen. It happened because they were too busy bait racing and calling those who ask for equality of all religions, races and creeds, racist.

The evidence? Look no further than the civil unrest In Sheffield between Muslims and Romanians because It's believed authorities are prioritising the Romanians... and the Far Right nowhere In the mix.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri May 23, 2014 8:15 am

Well, I'm rarely invited to diner in a family that insists on "saying grace" before stabbing the beast with their steely knives, but I have enough respect in such circumstances to bow my head and let them get on with it. That goes for Jewish families and Moslem ones as well. I'm even able to eat with my hands whenever I'm invited to my Sri Lankan friend's home. Tolerance needn't be a two-way street because the reward goes to those who exercise respect, while the one who doesn't suffers.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 23, 2014 8:31 am

High Threshold;1455122 wrote: Well, I'm rarely invited to diner in a family that insists on "saying grace" before stabbing the beast with their steely knives, but I have enough respect in such circumstances to bow my head and let them get on with it. That goes for Jewish families and Moslem ones as well. I'm even able to eat with my hands whenever I'm invited to my Sri Lankan friend's home. Tolerance needn't be a two-way street because the reward goes to those who exercise respect, while the one who doesn't suffers.
I totally agree. Neutrality In Slaughter houses then gives every religion, race and creed the option of blessing their food In the name of the tooth fairy should they wish In the privacy of their own home. It's also respecting every religion, race and creed.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri May 23, 2014 9:18 am

Oscar Sellotape;1455123 wrote: I totally agree. Neutrality In Slaughter houses then gives every religion, race and creed the option of blessing their food In the name of the tooth fairy should they wish In the privacy of their own home. It's also respecting every religion, race and creed.

I consider myself to be tolerant and open-minded but I must draw the line with the tooth fairy. I cannot abide all of that prancing about the bedroom while I'm asleep, and all I get for it is a tuppence!

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 23, 2014 9:30 am

High Threshold;1455130 wrote: I consider myself to be tolerant and open-minded but I must draw the line with the tooth fairy. I cannot abide all of that prancing about the bedroom while I'm asleep, and all I get for it is a tuppence!

What about the Easter Bunny ?

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri May 23, 2014 11:29 am

High Threshold;1455118 wrote: I understand that very well but ..... THAT IS NOT THE POINT. Please read your own words (here below) and understand them. I'd love to avoid the Bible bash, round in circles of the a la sheep fashion.

So ..... let me ask you ONE MORE TIME ....... what makes you think that G-d required animal sacrifice? I will accept either a direct quote from the Torah or a rational, intelligent, motivated reasoning.

We can start with Binding of Isaac to know that G-d is into the animal sacrifice thing.

I don't know off hand if there is a direct quote from the Torah commanding animal sacrifice, but we are instructed

Deuteronomy 12:11

Then to the place the LORD your God will choose as a dwelling for his Name--there you are to bring everything I command you: your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, and all the choice possessions you have vowed to the LORD.

Seems to me if there are rules on how to perform such rituals there is either a direct commandment or existing tradition of such practices.

Kinda like explaining why cheese burgers are not Kosher.

All said, none of that applies to you.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri May 23, 2014 1:39 pm

Each year there is always a tumult here on Yom Kippur for the ritualistic chicken slaughter. First, the poor bird is lifted by it's wings, swung over & around 3 times & then ritualistically slaughtered so some Orthodox jerk-off can put his own yearly sins onto the defenseless bird & slaughtered in place of the human who probably deserves it. I don't know if it is then eaten.

Swinging Chicken Ritual Divides Orthodox Jews : NPR

In the article it states: the chicken is swung by both wings, as by one it would hurt and "That would cause the chicken pain and it would no longer be kosher."

Every year in NYC this causes a big uproar, even amongst the Orthodox. Well, of course. We love to argue with each other.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri May 23, 2014 1:42 pm

PS--it is eaten. It's donated to the poor. Don't see how that absolves human sin.

Kaparot: The Jewish Chicken-Waving Ceremony To Absolve Sins (PHOTOS)

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri May 23, 2014 1:44 pm

"All said, none of that applies to you."

Why not, TD? Why doesn't it apply to HT? He's a human & has a right to be concerned about humanity & slaughter of animals.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Fri May 23, 2014 1:56 pm

Bruv;1453429 wrote: And do you think with their heightened sense of smell and animal instincts, forcing creatures wholesale through a slaughter house with the smells and noises associated is humane?

I have never understood that idea.

All meat eaters should have to slaughter their own meat once in their lives in as humane way as they see fit at least once, pontificating about it is not good enough.

I don't believe that Halal or Kosher slaughter methods are any more or less humane than our so called good practice slaughter in all honesty.

totally agree with that.

It depends on the slaughter house though

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:02 pm

AnneBoleyn;1455170 wrote: "All said, none of that applies to you."

Why not, TD? Why doesn't it apply to HT? He's a human & has a right to be concerned about humanity & slaughter of animals.

The question was

So ..... let me ask you ONE MORE TIME ....... what makes you think that G-d required animal sacrifice?

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:03 pm

But still, why doesn't it apply to him? Please explain further.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:06 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1455172 wrote: totally agree with that.

It depends on the slaughter house though
When I started researching all aspects of Halal slaughter, It was the view of the British Farmers who claim that even animals pre-stunned suffer dreadfully In Halal houses that surprised me the most given that Farmers use pre-stun houses. Some claim that Halal practices even with the pre-stun do not Isolate the animal and they suffer by panic and fear.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:12 pm

During Easter, a lamb was killed specifically for me. It was only a couple of months old. I didn't want to offend the older man for this gift, but I had a small piece & wanted to choke. Yet, I eat meat because I don't think about how it gets to table. When I lived on the farm in Wisconsin, a cow I knew who always ran through the electric fence---------well, one day at dinner I said to my farmer host I hadn't seen the cow in a while & he said "You're eating it." You are both right, fuzz & Bruv. At least once in our lives we meat-eaters should claim responsibility for what we consume by participating in the slaughter. Modern life, esp. in the city, is so far removed from our realities.

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:29 pm

AnneBoleyn;1455178 wrote: But still, why doesn't it apply to him? Please explain further.

I didn't realize he was part of the tribe. If he is, I am the wrong person he should seek answers from.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Fri May 23, 2014 2:32 pm

tude dog;1455198 wrote: I didn't realize he was part of the tribe. If he is, I am the wrong person to be asking.

He's not Jewish, (although he does a great Yiddish accent) he is part of the Human Tribe.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri May 23, 2014 3:05 pm

Oscar Sellotape;1455181 wrote: When I started researching all aspects of Halal slaughter, It was the view of the British Farmers who claim that even animals pre-stunned suffer dreadfully In Halal houses that surprised me the most given that Farmers use pre-stun houses. Some claim that Halal practices even with the pre-stun do not Isolate the animal and they suffer by panic and fear.
So.......why do they bother with the stunning?

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Fri May 23, 2014 3:08 pm

so basically don't eat halal meat because it's going to taste awful

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri May 23, 2014 3:21 pm

Bruv;1455233 wrote: So.......why do they bother with the stunning? I've tried In the past to find answers to that and there seems no logical explanation... The nearest I can find Is It's In accordance with Sharia Law which states the animal must be In good health. Being pre-stunned and In a state of Unconsciousness, It is no longer ' healthy'. Those who are pre-stunning are abiding by law first.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Fri May 23, 2014 3:58 pm

Oscar Sellotape;1455242 wrote: I've tried In the past to find answers to that and there seems no logical explanation... The nearest I can find Is It's In accordance with Sharia Law which states the animal must be In good health. Being pre-stunned and In a state of Unconsciousness, It is no longer ' healthy'. Those who are pre-stunning are abiding by law first.

No not why don't the Muslims stun, why does anybody stun in general?

If stunning isn't good enough for Halal slaughter, why is it done for non Halal

It was your post that said......"It was the view of the British Farmers who claim that even animals pre-stunned suffer dreadfully"

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Fri May 23, 2014 10:10 pm

Oscar Sellotape;1455131 wrote: What about the Easter Bunny ?

I choose not to comment at this particular point in time.

tude dog;1455146 wrote: We can start with Binding of Isaac to know that G-d is into the animal sacrifice thing.

I don't know off hand if there is a direct quote from the Torah commanding animal sacrifice, but we are instructed

Deuteronomy 12:11

Very nice, but who wrote it? Certainly not G-d Himself?

tude dog;1455146 wrote: All said, none of that applies to you.

And why's that?

AnneBoleyn;1455168 wrote: Each year there is always a tumult here on Yom Kippur for the ritualistic chicken slaughter. First, the poor bird is lifted by it's wings, swung over & around 3 times & then ritualistically slaughtered ...

A blind man enters the pub together with his seeing-eye dog. He grabs the dog by its tail, lifts it up above his head and starts to swing it round and round and round in the air. The other guests are outraged, particularly the old spinster in the corner who just happens to be the president of the local "Animal Rights Society". She makes her feelings heard in a loud and forceful voice but the blind man replies, "Sorry madam but there's no harm in it. I'm just having a look round the place."

AnneBoleyn;1455170 wrote: "All said, none of that applies to you."

Why not, TD? Why doesn't it apply to HT? He's a human & has a right to be concerned about humanity & slaughter of animals.

Thank you Anne.

tude dog;1455198 wrote: I didn't realize he was part of the tribe. If he is, I am the wrong person he should seek answers from.

I am asking you to clarify YOUR OWN WORDS which are clearly YOUR OWN OPINION. Who else ought I ask?

AnneBoleyn;1455201 wrote: He's not Jewish .....

You don't really know whether I am or not. There's much more here than meets the eye.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat May 24, 2014 3:49 am

When I was a young boy, we had a few animals. My job was feeding the chickens and gathering eggs. My older siblings were responsible for caring for the cows - feeding, milking, etc. It was routine for us to talk about the animals that sustained us as we ate them. When a chicken got too old to lay eggs it was time to cook her. Over a good meal of chicken and rice, one of us would say "Mama, is this that old chicken that stopped laying?" "Yes," she'd say. "Pass me some more, please. This is delicious."

When we ate beef, invariably someone would ask who the meat came from. "Is this Star?" "No, this is Blacky." "Really? I didn't expect her meat to be this tender." "Hey, remember the time that Blacky ..." and someone would relate a funny story & relive good times over a good meal.

We loved our animals, but we all knew their purpose.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 24, 2014 5:03 am

Bruv;1455246 wrote: No not why don't the Muslims stun, why does anybody stun in general?

If stunning isn't good enough for Halal slaughter, why is it done for non Halal

It was your post that said......"It was the view of the British Farmers who claim that even animals pre-stunned suffer dreadfully" Some British Farmers are saying that the ones who are still pre-stunned In Halal slaughter houses still suffer because they are not Isolated before death and they suffer through panic and fear.... As I said In my post prior.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat May 24, 2014 5:41 am

Oscar Sellotape;1455270 wrote: Some British Farmers are saying that the ones who are still pre-stunned In Halal slaughter houses still suffer because they are not Isolated before death and they suffer through panic and fear.... As I said In my post prior.

And as I said......whats the difference ?

Lets take it step by step.......two lorries arrive with beasts to slaughter, one to a Halal and one to an 'approved' slaughterhouse.

The animals are herded off the lorries and channeled toward the slaughterman, as far as I know this is the same in both procedures......you might know differently.

They are all put in single row channels with doors and gates to contain and manage the flow, at the end of this foot journey each cattle is delivered alone but seperated only by a gate or door from the next beast in line, at this time it is either stunned or dispatched Halal stylee, before being hoisted by a leg and conveyor line taken to the next stage, where in the 'approved' slaughter a captive bolt would end their lives.

My question remains the same, in humane terms, what is the difference ?

All animals will smell and glimpse and hear the discomfort of those preceding them......hence......."they suffer through panic and fear"

So the statement commencing "Some British Farmers are saying..........." is pure balderdash.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 24, 2014 5:44 am

Bruv;1455278 wrote:

At least the Halal beasts have the dignity of a prayer muttered at their passing.

So the statement commencing "Some British Farmers are saying..........." is pure balderdash.

That's right where you have lost me.

Bollocks and you know It.

Did you not read anything Fuzzy said ?

Lee Rigby's killers muttered similar as they tried to hack his head off.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat May 24, 2014 5:55 am

OK I have deleted the single line that offends you and other fine upstanding Christian Brits.

People can still see by your post what offends.

Still no proper answer though......why ?

Bringing in Rigby only shows up the Halal meat argument as part of anti Muslim propaganda.

Nothing to do with what Fuzzy said, my question is entirely to do with your line starting "Some British farmers....." and the resulting discomfort to the beasts concerned in both slaughter methods.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 24, 2014 6:05 am

Bruv;1455281 wrote: OK I have deleted the single line that offends you and other fine upstanding Christian Brits.

People can still see by your post what offends.

Still no proper answer though......why ?

Bringing in Rigby only shows up the Halal meat argument as part of anti Muslim propaganda.

Nothing to do with what Fuzzy said, my question is entirely to do with your line starting "Some British farmers....." and the resulting discomfort to the beasts concerned in both slaughter methods. As a country, we pride ourselves on being civilised. Slitting an animals throat Is not civilised In this day and age where we have so many ways to reduce suffering. It's a step back not forward. Animal welfare should take precedent over any religious, ritual belief's.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat May 24, 2014 6:08 am

Oscar Sellotape;1455284 wrote: As a country, we pride ourselves on being civilised. Slitting an animals throat Is not civilised In this day and age where we have so many ways to reduce suffering. It's a step back not forward. Animal welfare should take precedent over any religious, ritual belief's.
Fair enough..........you don't can't see any difference either.

That's what I thought.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat May 24, 2014 6:43 am

Bruv;1455286 wrote: Fair enough..........you don't can't see any difference either.

That's what I thought. We are going backwards yet we pride ourselves on being civilised.

It's no different to the Grand National.

We could have Ignored repeated cries from animal welfare and said ' so what? Only a small percentage of horses that die on the track or suffer distress but the BHA didn't Ignore. They worked tirelessly with animal rights orgs to change the track, the hurdles, the toe bars etc so all 40 horses went home safe every year. The Irony being, just as your horse gets under starters orders, we also say a little prayer, not the same prayer admittedly.

But the BHA accepted that progress Is change and change Is progress... that's all that should ever matter In animal welfare. Not some religious belief, not some ritual, not some prayer but progress and change for the animals general welfare.... without It, nothing changes, we remain barbaric In the name of religion that should have no place In an Industry that supplies the masses made up of other religions, belief's and races.

For Immigration and muticultralism to work there has to be tolerance and acceptance on every level. Without It comes Injustices, resentment and racial tensions. You are sleep walking Into a Far Right government because of crap like this.

High Threshold · Post by **High Threshold** » Sat May 24, 2014 7:38 am

Accountable " ... It was routine for us to talk about the animals that sustained us as we ate them. "

Bruv... "The animals ..... are all put in single row channels with doors and gates to contain and manage the flow, at the end of this foot journey each cattle is delivered alone but seperated only by a gate or door from the next beast in line ..... "

That does it. I'm going to live off of carrots and cabbage the rest of my life.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat May 24, 2014 7:39 am

High Threshold;1455261 wrote:

1. A blind man enters the pub together with his seeing-eye dog. He grabs the dog by its tail, lifts it up above his head and starts to swing it round and round and round in the air. The other guests are outraged, particularly the old spinster in the corner who just happens to be the president of the local "Animal Rights Society". She makes her feelings heard in a loud and forceful voice but the blind man replies, "Sorry madam but there's no harm in it. I'm just having a look round the place."

2. You don't really know whether I am or not. There's much more here than meets the eye.

1. Thank you. That was hilarious & I had a good laugh which I really need.

2. Be a jew. Don't be a jew. Just be a mensch.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat May 24, 2014 7:40 am

High Threshold;1455293 wrote: Accountable " ... It was routine for us to talk about the animals that sustained us as we ate them. "

Bruv... "The animals ..... are all put in single row channels with doors and gates to contain and manage the flow, at the end of this foot journey each cattle is delivered alone but seperated only by a gate or door from the next beast in line ..... "

That does it. I'm going to live off of carrots and cabbage the rest of my life.

Expect to fart a lot.