Ukraine: Not as simple as it seem

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:26 am

Obama warns Russia: There will be costs for intervention in Ukraine - CNN.com

http://rt.com/news/crimea-facts-protests-politics-945/

This isn't afghanistan or iraq Russia has a big stick of it's own.

Will Ukraine's Crimea region be Europe's next 'frozen' conflict? - CNN.com

Ukraine's choice, then, is between consolidating the gains of the Euro-Maidan revolution across most of the country, and risking it all to maintain control over a historically reticent part of Ukraine that may already be lost. The question that has to be answered now is whether Crimea is a price worth paying for getting Ukraine on track for democracy and European integration.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:51 am

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:58 am

Nothing is EVER as simple as it seems.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 10:12 am

LarsMac;1449260 wrote: Nothing is EVER as simple as it seems.

I beg to differ. Some things are exactly what they seem.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:09 pm

There's an assumption in the western media that everybody in the Ukraine wants to join with the west and be free of russia it's just not that simple. That russia might take the chance to re-integrate the ukraine is not beyond the bounds of possibility it could lead to all out warfare realistically short of going to war there would not be a lot the west could do to stop russia if it decides to do so. The question is will nato et all get involved if that happens.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:20 pm

Why oh why right now is the world so interested in self determination and ethnic differences?

These people have been living side by side for generations, why the conflict now?

I imagine there are now marriages across the divisions that confuse things further

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:09 am

Bruv;1449310 wrote: Why oh why right now is the world so interested in self determination and ethnic differences?

These people have been living side by side for generations, why the conflict now?

I imagine there are now marriages across the divisions that confuse things further

In a way the polish, austro hungarian empire and later russian empire/communism kept a lid down on conflicts that would probably have been resolved years ago - either peacefully or by warfare. Look at northern ireland, that is both an ethnic and religious conflict that has it's roots hundreds of years ago the tensions between Ukraine, russia and crimea are more recent. It's easy to forget russia was an empire with different ethnic groups and languages we tend to see it as a monobloc nation. Ledft alone they might have become a federal state witjh crimea having it's own parliament

It's no different in principle really from the Westminster government trying to bully the scots in to voting no so as to protect their economic interests, we also have all the nuclear submarine bases as well though I think you could draw the parallel too far.

Post by **LarsMac** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:43 am

Here is an article from National Geographic that explains a bit. Behind the Headlines: History and Geography Help Explain Ukraine Crisis

There seems to be some parallels between Stalin's actions in the 1930s and King James' Plantation of Ulster in the early 17th Century.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Sun Mar 02, 2014 9:46 am

Oh no, oh no, puh-leeze don't quote yourself!

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:04 pm

LarsMac;1449399 wrote: Here is an article from National Geographic that explains a bit. Behind the Headlines: History and Geography Help Explain Ukraine Crisis

There seems to be some parallels between Stalin's actions in the 1930s and King James' Plantation of Ulster in the early 17th Century.

It's something that's happened many times throughout history. Interesting choice for comparison there are parallels It's similar in that the ones transplanted in don't want to be part of an independent Ukraine.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:40 pm

I'm underwhelmed by events and I believe the West thus far, should butt out. Putin thus far has not acted aggressively and talks of saving lives. He naturally Is worried about Russian Investment In the Ukraine. The West are making this far worse. Obama was quick to want to Impose sanctions before realising that approx a third of Europe's oil and gas Is supplied by Russia. If America was to Impose sanctions, Putin could cut off European fuel. That fuel Is approx half of Russia's revenue so Putin knows he'd be bankrupt within weeks.

New outlets report that surprisingly, Russia and the Ukraine are relatively calm. No fighting In the streets even. So Obama, quit the desire to use this as an excuse to bankrupt Russia and stay the hell out of It. Concentrate Instead of getting vital aid to the starving and Injured In Syria. Putin Is not an Idiot.

And by the way, by source of a leaked paper being taken Into Westminster today, Britain will not support the USA In sanctions and will continue to trade with Russia....... so ner.