A Great day for British justice...
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Oscar Namechange
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A Great day for British justice...
A great day for British justice: Theresa May vows to take UK out of the European Court of Human Rights | Mail Online
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
A Great day for British justice...
In theory, the Council of Europe, a body with 47 member states which oversees the Strasbourg court, could retaliate against Mrs May by expelling Britain.
That would be bad for who? Does anybody believe they would walk away from easily assumed power?
But this has not happened to other countries found guilty of flouting human rights laws in the past.
By whose authority has Great Britain been convicted "fluting human rights?"?
That would be bad for who? Does anybody believe they would walk away from easily assumed power?
But this has not happened to other countries found guilty of flouting human rights laws in the past.
By whose authority has Great Britain been convicted "fluting human rights?"?
What happened to Kamala Harris' campaign?
She had the black vote all locked up.
She had the black vote all locked up.
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AnneBoleyn
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A Great day for British justice...
I feel I'm with you on this oscar. I don't really know the situation as well as you but Ms. May seems right to me, prima facie.
A Great day for British justice...
The key word is "vow". Has she delivered yet?
How do you know a politician is bulls**ting you?
How do you know a politician is bulls**ting you?
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Oscar Namechange
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A Great day for British justice...
Scrat;1421980 wrote: The key word is "vow". Has she delivered yet?
How do you know a politician is bulls**ting you? Theresa May Is the only politician who delivers. She has a good history of delivering. She Is also challenging UK Judges to abolish the human rights section ' The right to family life'... this Is the one Immigrants use when facing deportation.
BBC News - Theresa May to give judges new deportation guidance
How do you know a politician is bulls**ting you? Theresa May Is the only politician who delivers. She has a good history of delivering. She Is also challenging UK Judges to abolish the human rights section ' The right to family life'... this Is the one Immigrants use when facing deportation.
BBC News - Theresa May to give judges new deportation guidance
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
A Great day for British justice...
No it's not a great day for british justice. What it means is that of you are a victim of persecution by the vbritish givernment or feel you have been unjustly treated by the british legal system you will lose the last place where you will be able to appeal for justice. As usual the daily mail just picks on the extreme cases and completely ignores not only the actual facts of a case but all the other instances where thwe ciurt if human rights has handed down decisions that most normal people would agree were right.
What has the European Court of Human Rights ever done for us? - Home News - UK - The Independent
The tories are fascists that don't want their decisions being challenged in the courts. Do some research on the matter and stop believing the daily mail is right every time.
It is an ironic situation bearing in mind Britain has an enviable reputation for human rights with less than 3 per cent of applications considered admissible and of those, just half succeed. Last year the court dealt with 955 applications from the UK, of which only 19 were considered admissible and eight were ruled a violation of the convention.
The vast majority of the Rule 39 urgent applications relate to asylum seekers facing immediate deportation. Unless there is an “irreversible risk of harm they are rejected, as are 95 per cent from Britain.
“If you have Supreme Court judges who take the European Convention on Human Rights as seriously as it is done in Britain, it is much more unlikely that the court finds violations because the job has been done on a national level, explained President Spielmann.
Only issues that require “fine tuning ever reach Strasbourg and, as a result, they are likely to be the most contentious.
Eight cases out of 955 which ruled against the UK government, wow they are really getting stuck in there aren't they
What would happen if the UK withdrew from the European Court of Human Rights?
What would happen if the UK withdrew from the European Court of Human Rights?
Context is everything – European Court of Human Rights struck out 99% of UK cases in 2012
It was us that played a major part in setting these courts up they have been heavily influenced by the british legal system. Get a griop on rwality, our politicians don;t like the courts because it stops them doing what they like.
Posted by scrat
How do you know a politician is bulls**ting you?
Simple, are they talking? If yes then you know they are.
posted by anne boelyn
I feel I'm with you on this oscar. I don't really know the situation as well as you but Ms. May seems right to me, prima facie.
She's not. Let me put it this way - your president has been given the power to arrest american citizens and hold them without trial. Maybe you were one of those who thought it didn't matter when it was foreigners but now it's americans as well. That's the problem with a supreme court appointed by politicians they pack the bench to suit. With us even with that power the European courts are a place we could appeal to AGAINST our government.
Our house of lords prevented ton y blair doing the same thing here but if it had failed then at least someone could have appealed to the european courts. Now teresa may wants to remove that right, she's an idiot and only idiots would support her. Anyone who thinks a british government would never be repressive does not know our history.
What has the European Court of Human Rights ever done for us? - Home News - UK - The Independent
The tories are fascists that don't want their decisions being challenged in the courts. Do some research on the matter and stop believing the daily mail is right every time.
It is an ironic situation bearing in mind Britain has an enviable reputation for human rights with less than 3 per cent of applications considered admissible and of those, just half succeed. Last year the court dealt with 955 applications from the UK, of which only 19 were considered admissible and eight were ruled a violation of the convention.
The vast majority of the Rule 39 urgent applications relate to asylum seekers facing immediate deportation. Unless there is an “irreversible risk of harm they are rejected, as are 95 per cent from Britain.
“If you have Supreme Court judges who take the European Convention on Human Rights as seriously as it is done in Britain, it is much more unlikely that the court finds violations because the job has been done on a national level, explained President Spielmann.
Only issues that require “fine tuning ever reach Strasbourg and, as a result, they are likely to be the most contentious.
Eight cases out of 955 which ruled against the UK government, wow they are really getting stuck in there aren't they
What would happen if the UK withdrew from the European Court of Human Rights?
What would happen if the UK withdrew from the European Court of Human Rights?
Context is everything – European Court of Human Rights struck out 99% of UK cases in 2012
It was us that played a major part in setting these courts up they have been heavily influenced by the british legal system. Get a griop on rwality, our politicians don;t like the courts because it stops them doing what they like.
Posted by scrat
How do you know a politician is bulls**ting you?
Simple, are they talking? If yes then you know they are.
posted by anne boelyn
I feel I'm with you on this oscar. I don't really know the situation as well as you but Ms. May seems right to me, prima facie.
She's not. Let me put it this way - your president has been given the power to arrest american citizens and hold them without trial. Maybe you were one of those who thought it didn't matter when it was foreigners but now it's americans as well. That's the problem with a supreme court appointed by politicians they pack the bench to suit. With us even with that power the European courts are a place we could appeal to AGAINST our government.
Our house of lords prevented ton y blair doing the same thing here but if it had failed then at least someone could have appealed to the european courts. Now teresa may wants to remove that right, she's an idiot and only idiots would support her. Anyone who thinks a british government would never be repressive does not know our history.
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
A Great day for British justice...
There's one enormous factor that you seem to be over-looking my little Scottish nationalist and that Is, we, the UK already have courts.
It just means that Judges can use the law without a ruling from the Strasbourg.
The final right of appeal would be to the British Supreme Court, rather than Strasbourg pr have you failed to grasp that?
Perhaps it's you who needs a little more research ?
It just means that Judges can use the law without a ruling from the Strasbourg.
The final right of appeal would be to the British Supreme Court, rather than Strasbourg pr have you failed to grasp that?
Perhaps it's you who needs a little more research ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
A Great day for British justice...
Most of the detail goes right over my head............but.
We joined the club, we had input for the club rules, more have joined the club, now they have a larger input with the rules.
We are now throwing our toys out of the pram.
The vision of the EU was a United States of Europe, others will outvote us, that is Democracy on a continental scale.
We should either stay in and try to influence the course, accepting when the majority win, or bugger off outside it.
We are either in or out.
We joined the club, we had input for the club rules, more have joined the club, now they have a larger input with the rules.
We are now throwing our toys out of the pram.
The vision of the EU was a United States of Europe, others will outvote us, that is Democracy on a continental scale.
We should either stay in and try to influence the course, accepting when the majority win, or bugger off outside it.
We are either in or out.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
A Great day for British justice...
Bruv;1422021 wrote: Most of the detail goes right over my head............but.
We joined the club, we had input for the club rules, more have joined the club, now they have a larger input with the rules.
We are now throwing our toys out of the pram.
The vision of the EU was a United States of Europe, others will outvote us, that is Democracy on a continental scale.
We should either stay in and try to influence the course, accepting when the majority win, or bugger off outside it.
We are either in or out. I'm surprised you haven't worked out the connection.
Abu Qatada appealed time and time again right to the Grand Chamber of the European court of Human Rights to avoid deportation to stand trial In Jordon.
When Theresa May lost after fighting tooth and nail, she vowed that she would do whatever It took to rid Britain of him.....
Remember now ?
We joined the club, we had input for the club rules, more have joined the club, now they have a larger input with the rules.
We are now throwing our toys out of the pram.
The vision of the EU was a United States of Europe, others will outvote us, that is Democracy on a continental scale.
We should either stay in and try to influence the course, accepting when the majority win, or bugger off outside it.
We are either in or out. I'm surprised you haven't worked out the connection.
Abu Qatada appealed time and time again right to the Grand Chamber of the European court of Human Rights to avoid deportation to stand trial In Jordon.
When Theresa May lost after fighting tooth and nail, she vowed that she would do whatever It took to rid Britain of him.....
Remember now ?
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
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AnneBoleyn
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- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
A Great day for British justice...
"She's not. Let me put it this way - your president has been given the power to arrest american citizens and hold them without trial. Maybe you were one of those who thought it didn't matter when it was foreigners but now it's americans as well. That's the problem with a supreme court appointed by politicians they pack the bench to suit. With us even with that power the European courts are a place we could appeal to AGAINST our government."
Hope you're not speaking of someone like Anwar al-Awlaki. He got what he richly deserved.
Hope you're not speaking of someone like Anwar al-Awlaki. He got what he richly deserved.
A Great day for British justice...
oscar;1422031 wrote: I'm surprised you haven't worked out the connection.
Abu Qatada appealed time and time again right to the Grand Chamber of the European court of Human Rights to avoid deportation to stand trial In Jordon.
When Theresa May lost after fighting tooth and nail, she vowed that she would do whatever It took to rid Britain of him.....
Remember now ?
I remembered then.
Doesn't alter anything else I said.
The British are soooooo bloody honest and upright and fair and such like, they not only want to be correct they want to be seen to be correct.
I believe if we really wanted him gone, we would find a way of doing it..............quietly
Abu Qatada appealed time and time again right to the Grand Chamber of the European court of Human Rights to avoid deportation to stand trial In Jordon.
When Theresa May lost after fighting tooth and nail, she vowed that she would do whatever It took to rid Britain of him.....
Remember now ?
I remembered then.
Doesn't alter anything else I said.
The British are soooooo bloody honest and upright and fair and such like, they not only want to be correct they want to be seen to be correct.
I believe if we really wanted him gone, we would find a way of doing it..............quietly
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
A Great day for British justice...
oscar;1421994 wrote: There's one enormous factor that you seem to be over-looking my little Scottish nationalist and that Is, we, the UK already have courts.
It just means that Judges can use the law without a ruling from the Strasbourg.
The final right of appeal would be to the British Supreme Court, rather than Strasbourg pr have you failed to grasp that?
Perhaps it's you who needs a little more research ?
OK. Let's try this to see if you can get the point. Let's say the tories decide to ban the BNP and imprison Nick Griffin. The supreme court does the government's bidding so that line of appeal doesn't work. But oh goody he can appeal to the European court of human rights isn't that a good thing? No he can't because britain is no longer a signatory to declaration and doesn't recognise their jurisdiction.
The final right of appeal would be to the British Supreme Court, rather than Strasbourg pr have you failed to grasp that?
That is the whole point of the European court of human rights you can appeal to them if you are being persecuted by the british government or being victimised by discriminatory laws.
Abu Qatada appealed time and time again right to the Grand Chamber of the European court of Human Rights to avoid deportation to stand trial In Jordon.
When Theresa May lost after fighting tooth and nail, she vowed that she would do whatever It took to rid Britain of him.....
Remember now ?
That was one of the eight cases we lost out of the 955 that were accepted by the court
BBC News - Abu Qatada: Home Secretary wins permission for appeal
Last month the Special Immigration Appeals Commission ruled it was not satisfied the preacher would be tried fairly in Jordan because the case could include evidence obtained by torturing his former co-defendants. The use of such evidence is banned under British and European law.
In January, the European Court of Human Rights ruled the preacher could not be deported until Jordan gave an assurance that torture tainted evidence would not feature at his trial.
Don't tell me you think evidence obtained under torture should be used to convict someone? A lot of priests preach hatred not just muslim ones we should be consistent and shut them all up.
posted by anne boelyn
"She's not. Let me put it this way - your president has been given the power to arrest american citizens and hold them without trial. Maybe you were one of those who thought it didn't matter when it was foreigners but now it's americans as well. That's the problem with a supreme court appointed by politicians they pack the bench to suit. With us even with that power the European courts are a place we could appeal to AGAINST our government."
Hope you're not speaking of someone like Anwar al-Awlaki. He got what he richly deserved.
No I wasn't since I've never heard of him. I was speaking of you as an american - your president now has the power to order your arrest and detention without standing trial. Perhaps you thought it didn't matter since it applied only to foreigners but now you too are subject to arrest and detention without trial. Who do you appeal to for your release?
We have the european court of human rights, at least at the moment, Teresa May wants to repeal the human rights act because and withdraw as a signatory to the convention of human rights because it is preventing her doing what she likes.
It just means that Judges can use the law without a ruling from the Strasbourg.
The final right of appeal would be to the British Supreme Court, rather than Strasbourg pr have you failed to grasp that?
Perhaps it's you who needs a little more research ?
OK. Let's try this to see if you can get the point. Let's say the tories decide to ban the BNP and imprison Nick Griffin. The supreme court does the government's bidding so that line of appeal doesn't work. But oh goody he can appeal to the European court of human rights isn't that a good thing? No he can't because britain is no longer a signatory to declaration and doesn't recognise their jurisdiction.
The final right of appeal would be to the British Supreme Court, rather than Strasbourg pr have you failed to grasp that?
That is the whole point of the European court of human rights you can appeal to them if you are being persecuted by the british government or being victimised by discriminatory laws.
Abu Qatada appealed time and time again right to the Grand Chamber of the European court of Human Rights to avoid deportation to stand trial In Jordon.
When Theresa May lost after fighting tooth and nail, she vowed that she would do whatever It took to rid Britain of him.....
Remember now ?
That was one of the eight cases we lost out of the 955 that were accepted by the court
BBC News - Abu Qatada: Home Secretary wins permission for appeal
Last month the Special Immigration Appeals Commission ruled it was not satisfied the preacher would be tried fairly in Jordan because the case could include evidence obtained by torturing his former co-defendants. The use of such evidence is banned under British and European law.
In January, the European Court of Human Rights ruled the preacher could not be deported until Jordan gave an assurance that torture tainted evidence would not feature at his trial.
Don't tell me you think evidence obtained under torture should be used to convict someone? A lot of priests preach hatred not just muslim ones we should be consistent and shut them all up.
posted by anne boelyn
"She's not. Let me put it this way - your president has been given the power to arrest american citizens and hold them without trial. Maybe you were one of those who thought it didn't matter when it was foreigners but now it's americans as well. That's the problem with a supreme court appointed by politicians they pack the bench to suit. With us even with that power the European courts are a place we could appeal to AGAINST our government."
Hope you're not speaking of someone like Anwar al-Awlaki. He got what he richly deserved.
No I wasn't since I've never heard of him. I was speaking of you as an american - your president now has the power to order your arrest and detention without standing trial. Perhaps you thought it didn't matter since it applied only to foreigners but now you too are subject to arrest and detention without trial. Who do you appeal to for your release?
We have the european court of human rights, at least at the moment, Teresa May wants to repeal the human rights act because and withdraw as a signatory to the convention of human rights because it is preventing her doing what she likes.
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AnneBoleyn
- Posts: 6631
- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
A Great day for British justice...
"No I wasn't since I've never heard of him. I was speaking of you as an american - your president now has the power to order your arrest and detention without standing trial. Perhaps you thought it didn't matter since it applied only to foreigners but now you too are subject to arrest and detention without trial. Who do you appeal to for your release? "
Some might say the 2nd Amendment. Where's Abbie Hoffman when we really need him?
eta--Living through Vietnam, I always assumed my government could do that to me, or anyone, or worse. This is not a surprise for me, more surprised that it is so open. That's what happens when society becomes complacent & doesn't give a you-know-what.
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit."
Abbie Hoffman
Read more at Abbie Hoffman Quotes - BrainyQuote
Some might say the 2nd Amendment. Where's Abbie Hoffman when we really need him?
eta--Living through Vietnam, I always assumed my government could do that to me, or anyone, or worse. This is not a surprise for me, more surprised that it is so open. That's what happens when society becomes complacent & doesn't give a you-know-what.
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit."
Abbie Hoffman
Read more at Abbie Hoffman Quotes - BrainyQuote
A Great day for British justice...
AnneBoleyn;1422056 wrote: "No I wasn't since I've never heard of him. I was speaking of you as an american - your president now has the power to order your arrest and detention without standing trial. Perhaps you thought it didn't matter since it applied only to foreigners but now you too are subject to arrest and detention without trial. Who do you appeal to for your release? "
Some might say the 2nd Amendment. Where's Abbie Hoffman when we really need him?
eta--Living through Vietnam, I always assumed my government could do that to me, or anyone, or worse. This is not a surprise for me, more surprised that it is so open. That's what happens when society becomes complacent & doesn't give a you-know-what.
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit."
Abbie Hoffman
Read more at Abbie Hoffman Quotes - BrainyQuote
Now I'm feeling ignorant I've never heard of him.
Did a google search he's an obscure american radical it seems:sneaky:
Just kidding. I'm british so naturally I tend to know more about what was going on in the UK and europe at the time. I can never quite understand american left wing l politics, they seem very similar on the face of it but it's like you're not allowed to call them left wing. Oscar is a fascist something about which she can be quite open about. She's deluded and a daily mail reader but there may be hope.
Some might say the 2nd Amendment. Where's Abbie Hoffman when we really need him?
eta--Living through Vietnam, I always assumed my government could do that to me, or anyone, or worse. This is not a surprise for me, more surprised that it is so open. That's what happens when society becomes complacent & doesn't give a you-know-what.
"Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit."
Abbie Hoffman
Read more at Abbie Hoffman Quotes - BrainyQuote
Now I'm feeling ignorant I've never heard of him.
Did a google search he's an obscure american radical it seems:sneaky:
Just kidding. I'm british so naturally I tend to know more about what was going on in the UK and europe at the time. I can never quite understand american left wing l politics, they seem very similar on the face of it but it's like you're not allowed to call them left wing. Oscar is a fascist something about which she can be quite open about. She's deluded and a daily mail reader but there may be hope.
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AnneBoleyn
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- Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2011 3:17 pm
A Great day for British justice...
Abbie is not/was not obscure. He had the soundest mind in the sixties. He was a great man & I urge you to read all you can about him. His own writings, i.e. Steal This Book (which everyone Did!), etc. are hard to lay hands on now (hopefully I'm wrong, I haven't checked for myself, but heard) & he was also the main member of the Chicago 8 (later known as the Chicago 7) which was the result of those fun times in Chicago at the Democratic Convention in 1968. I know, a long long time ago.
The term "left" here is anathema now. Changed & watered down to "progressive". I swear, there is more conformity here in the States NOW than in the 1950's. I've never seen anything like it.
But Abbie & I knew one thing---the best way to end the Revolution is for everyone to join it. That is part of what happened here.
Since we're presently all so "hip" whether we want to be or not, you might find some things he said are outdated, but an adventure with Abbie is worth it & was a great ride for the short time it lasted.
The term "left" here is anathema now. Changed & watered down to "progressive". I swear, there is more conformity here in the States NOW than in the 1950's. I've never seen anything like it.
But Abbie & I knew one thing---the best way to end the Revolution is for everyone to join it. That is part of what happened here.
Since we're presently all so "hip" whether we want to be or not, you might find some things he said are outdated, but an adventure with Abbie is worth it & was a great ride for the short time it lasted.
A Great day for British justice...
AnneBoleyn;1422126 wrote: Abbie is not/was not obscure. He had the soundest mind in the sixties. He was a great man & I urge you to read all you can about him. His own writings, i.e. Steal This Book (which everyone Did!), etc. are hard to lay hands on now (hopefully I'm wrong, I haven't checked for myself, but heard) & he was also the main member of the Chicago 8 (later known as the Chicago 7) which was the result of those fun times in Chicago at the Democratic Convention in 1968. I know, a long long time ago.
The term "left" here is anathema now. Changed & watered down to "progressive". I swear, there is more conformity here in the States NOW than in the 1950's. I've never seen anything like it.
But Abbie & I knew one thing---the best way to end the Revolution is for everyone to join it. That is part of what happened here.
Since we're presently all so "hip" whether we want to be or not, you might find some things he said are outdated, but an adventure with Abbie is worth it & was a great ride for the short time it lasted.
OK I was being ever so slightly facetious. I'm not an american remember a lot of your political writers are simply not known to me. I admit to a certain prejudice - an american viewpoint is not necessarily something I can relate to very well especially when it comes to your constitution and the reverence with which it is viewed. It's one of the reasons I like this forum it is to be informed I will have a look at abbie since ou have tweaked my curiosity.
The left here is pretty emasculated as well. Ironically they won most of the arguments and changed society but rather lost their way in the process turning in to a kind of political mafia that destroyed itself. New labour is a thatcher creation that would depress many of the old time socialists. I was lucky enough to know some of the those who were at the real grass roots.
Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit."
Abbie Hoffman
Trouble with revolution is when it succeeds you have to start all over again to stop those who would take away all that is gained. That sounds profound haven't a clue what I mean
The term "left" here is anathema now. Changed & watered down to "progressive". I swear, there is more conformity here in the States NOW than in the 1950's. I've never seen anything like it.
But Abbie & I knew one thing---the best way to end the Revolution is for everyone to join it. That is part of what happened here.
Since we're presently all so "hip" whether we want to be or not, you might find some things he said are outdated, but an adventure with Abbie is worth it & was a great ride for the short time it lasted.
OK I was being ever so slightly facetious. I'm not an american remember a lot of your political writers are simply not known to me. I admit to a certain prejudice - an american viewpoint is not necessarily something I can relate to very well especially when it comes to your constitution and the reverence with which it is viewed. It's one of the reasons I like this forum it is to be informed I will have a look at abbie since ou have tweaked my curiosity.
The left here is pretty emasculated as well. Ironically they won most of the arguments and changed society but rather lost their way in the process turning in to a kind of political mafia that destroyed itself. New labour is a thatcher creation that would depress many of the old time socialists. I was lucky enough to know some of the those who were at the real grass roots.
Revolution is not something fixed in ideology, nor is it something fashioned to a particular decade. It is a perpetual process embedded in the human spirit."
Abbie Hoffman
Trouble with revolution is when it succeeds you have to start all over again to stop those who would take away all that is gained. That sounds profound haven't a clue what I mean
A Great day for British justice...
For those who are wondering why we might need a court to appeal against the actions of our government.
Sorry seems to be the hardest word: Why Abdel Hakim Belhaj was never going to get an apology | Charley Utton | Independent Editor's choice Blogs
No offence but only a complete idiot entirely trusts any government to always respect the human of it's citizens. The point of the european court is top give you somewhere to appeal to. Citing the odd case where you are not happy with the decision really doesn't change that. All the parties in the UK have shown themselves capable of the most appalling deceit and cover ups to suit their, usually short term, ends. They're doing it in syria again by supporting the rebels it wasn't that long ago when assad was one of our favourite allies and yet again we are about to create a fundamentalist Islamic state in the middle east.
Sorry seems to be the hardest word: Why Abdel Hakim Belhaj was never going to get an apology | Charley Utton | Independent Editor's choice Blogs
No offence but only a complete idiot entirely trusts any government to always respect the human of it's citizens. The point of the european court is top give you somewhere to appeal to. Citing the odd case where you are not happy with the decision really doesn't change that. All the parties in the UK have shown themselves capable of the most appalling deceit and cover ups to suit their, usually short term, ends. They're doing it in syria again by supporting the rebels it wasn't that long ago when assad was one of our favourite allies and yet again we are about to create a fundamentalist Islamic state in the middle east.
A Great day for British justice...
gmc;1422590 wrote: For those who are wondering why we might need a court to appeal against the actions of our government.
Sorry seems to be the hardest word: Why Abdel Hakim Belhaj was never going to get an apology | Charley Utton | Independent Editor's choice Blogs
No offence but only a complete idiot entirely trusts any government to always respect the human of it's citizens. The point of the european court is top give you somewhere to appeal to. Citing the odd case where you are not happy with the decision really doesn't change that. All the parties in the UK have shown themselves capable of the most appalling deceit and cover ups to suit their, usually short term, ends. They're doing it in syria again by supporting the rebels it wasn't that long ago when assad was one of our favourite allies and yet again we are about to create a fundamentalist Islamic state in the middle east.
Why?
I really cannot understand why we are supporting and, soon to be, arming Al Quaeda in their attempt to gain control over yet another ME country!
Sorry seems to be the hardest word: Why Abdel Hakim Belhaj was never going to get an apology | Charley Utton | Independent Editor's choice Blogs
No offence but only a complete idiot entirely trusts any government to always respect the human of it's citizens. The point of the european court is top give you somewhere to appeal to. Citing the odd case where you are not happy with the decision really doesn't change that. All the parties in the UK have shown themselves capable of the most appalling deceit and cover ups to suit their, usually short term, ends. They're doing it in syria again by supporting the rebels it wasn't that long ago when assad was one of our favourite allies and yet again we are about to create a fundamentalist Islamic state in the middle east.
Why?
I really cannot understand why we are supporting and, soon to be, arming Al Quaeda in their attempt to gain control over yet another ME country!
A Great day for British justice...
Bryn Mawr;1422883 wrote: Why?
I really cannot understand why we are supporting and, soon to be, arming Al Quaeda in their attempt to gain control over yet another ME country!
What would you do if you knew your country was about to be taken over by religious fundamentalists? Look at what is happening in egypt where the muslim brotherhood are trying to exert control maybe the forces for freedom are strong enough to keep them in check.
I can't understand it either why we are we getting involved in the first place you'd think they would have learned their lesson and just keep out of it. The daft thing is we are so busy cutting our armed forces we soon won't be able to anything anyway.
I really cannot understand why we are supporting and, soon to be, arming Al Quaeda in their attempt to gain control over yet another ME country!
What would you do if you knew your country was about to be taken over by religious fundamentalists? Look at what is happening in egypt where the muslim brotherhood are trying to exert control maybe the forces for freedom are strong enough to keep them in check.
I can't understand it either why we are we getting involved in the first place you'd think they would have learned their lesson and just keep out of it. The daft thing is we are so busy cutting our armed forces we soon won't be able to anything anyway.
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Oscar Namechange
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A Great day for British justice...
gmc;1422590 wrote:
No offence but only a complete idiot entirely trusts any government to always respect the human of it's citizens. The point of the european court is top give you somewhere to appeal to. Citing the odd case where you are not happy with the decision really doesn't change that.
But do we really need the European Court of Appeal? Seriously ?
Anyone In this country has the right of appeal right up to the High Court. You are trying to make it sound as If Innocent British Citizens will be locked up without right to fair trial by Jury and a fair appeal.... well that's usually the case....In my case, I Initially elected to be tried by the Magistrates as Instructed by my lawyer only to find come my trial, the Magistrates dismissed and a County Judge brought In because they were so frightened of my lawyer..The Irony being the sympathy the Judge showed me In his full summing up when he banged on for about 20 minutes... I have to say the Judge was also most helpful at a later date when CID Investigated my arresting officer which was surprising at the time so I can' t complain.
I digress .... Governments have created the beast.... They allowed mass Immigration without checks which allowed the odd terror suspect In. Governments also took us Into the EU which then allowed those terror suspects to avoid deportation by the EU over-ruling Uk Judges under the 'Right to a family life ' article of the human rights act....
You can't have both because any country should have the right to deport any person they feel Is a serious threat to National Security as Is Abu Qatada....
Judges ordered to end 'right to family life' farce - Telegraph
No offence but only a complete idiot entirely trusts any government to always respect the human of it's citizens. The point of the european court is top give you somewhere to appeal to. Citing the odd case where you are not happy with the decision really doesn't change that.
But do we really need the European Court of Appeal? Seriously ?
Anyone In this country has the right of appeal right up to the High Court. You are trying to make it sound as If Innocent British Citizens will be locked up without right to fair trial by Jury and a fair appeal.... well that's usually the case....In my case, I Initially elected to be tried by the Magistrates as Instructed by my lawyer only to find come my trial, the Magistrates dismissed and a County Judge brought In because they were so frightened of my lawyer..The Irony being the sympathy the Judge showed me In his full summing up when he banged on for about 20 minutes... I have to say the Judge was also most helpful at a later date when CID Investigated my arresting officer which was surprising at the time so I can' t complain.
I digress .... Governments have created the beast.... They allowed mass Immigration without checks which allowed the odd terror suspect In. Governments also took us Into the EU which then allowed those terror suspects to avoid deportation by the EU over-ruling Uk Judges under the 'Right to a family life ' article of the human rights act....
You can't have both because any country should have the right to deport any person they feel Is a serious threat to National Security as Is Abu Qatada....
Judges ordered to end 'right to family life' farce - Telegraph
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
A Great day for British justice...
oscar;1422960 wrote: But do we really need the European Court of Appeal? Seriously ?
Anyone In this country has the right of appeal right up to the High Court. You are trying to make it sound as If Innocent British Citizens will be locked up without right to fair trial by Jury and a fair appeal.... well that's usually the case....In my case, I Initially elected to be tried by the Magistrates as Instructed by my lawyer only to find come my trial, the Magistrates dismissed and a County Judge brought In because they were so frightened of my lawyer..The Irony being the sympathy the Judge showed me In his full summing up when he banged on for about 20 minutes... I have to say the Judge was also most helpful at a later date when CID Investigated my arresting officer which was surprising at the time so I can' t complain.
I digress .... Governments have created the beast.... They allowed mass Immigration without checks which allowed the odd terror suspect In. Governments also took us Into the EU which then allowed those terror suspects to avoid deportation by the EU over-ruling Uk Judges under the 'Right to a family life ' article of the human rights act....
You can't have both because any country should have the right to deport any person they feel Is a serious threat to National Security as Is Abu Qatada....
Judges ordered to end 'right to family life' farce - Telegraph
It's not just about criminal cases it's also things like discrimination against part timers when it comes to things like pension rights - that's why you will see some councils complaining about the cost of backdating pension rights for their part time staff, completely missing the point that they shouldn't have discriminated in the first place. that was an EU court decision since most part time workers are women they ruled it was discrimination and men and women must be treated equally and have the same rights when it comes to retirement age, death benefits etc. Internet freedom is another one. I suggest you have a look at some of he judgements that have affected us and make up your own mind. You are zeroing on a very limited range of cases
Anyone In this country has the right of appeal right up to the High Court. You are trying to make it sound as If Innocent British Citizens will be locked up without right to fair trial by Jury and a fair appeal.... well that's usually the case....In my case, I Initially elected to be tried by the Magistrates as Instructed by my lawyer only to find come my trial, the Magistrates dismissed and a County Judge brought In because they were so frightened of my lawyer..The Irony being the sympathy the Judge showed me In his full summing up when he banged on for about 20 minutes... I have to say the Judge was also most helpful at a later date when CID Investigated my arresting officer which was surprising at the time so I can' t complain.
I digress .... Governments have created the beast.... They allowed mass Immigration without checks which allowed the odd terror suspect In. Governments also took us Into the EU which then allowed those terror suspects to avoid deportation by the EU over-ruling Uk Judges under the 'Right to a family life ' article of the human rights act....
You can't have both because any country should have the right to deport any person they feel Is a serious threat to National Security as Is Abu Qatada....
Judges ordered to end 'right to family life' farce - Telegraph
It's not just about criminal cases it's also things like discrimination against part timers when it comes to things like pension rights - that's why you will see some councils complaining about the cost of backdating pension rights for their part time staff, completely missing the point that they shouldn't have discriminated in the first place. that was an EU court decision since most part time workers are women they ruled it was discrimination and men and women must be treated equally and have the same rights when it comes to retirement age, death benefits etc. Internet freedom is another one. I suggest you have a look at some of he judgements that have affected us and make up your own mind. You are zeroing on a very limited range of cases
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
A Great day for British justice...
gmc;1422968 wrote: It's not just about criminal cases it's also things like discrimination against part timers when it comes to things like pension rights - that's why you will see some councils complaining about the cost of backdating pension rights for their part time staff, completely missing the point that they shouldn't have discriminated in the first place. that was an EU court decision since most part time workers are women they ruled it was discrimination and men and women must be treated equally and have the same rights when it comes to retirement age, death benefits etc. Internet freedom is another one. I suggest you have a look at some of he judgements that have affected us and make up your own mind. You are zeroing on a very limited range of cases
There are certain benefits yes such as the bus driver who was sacked for being a member of the BNP and won In his case In the EU courts but as with any system, It Is open for abuse and It's that abuse that has to be ended...
A typical example...
ON benefits in Birmingham, the African war criminal we can't kick out: Rent of 'murderer' staying on human righgts grounds is being funded by tax payer | Mail Online
There are certain benefits yes such as the bus driver who was sacked for being a member of the BNP and won In his case In the EU courts but as with any system, It Is open for abuse and It's that abuse that has to be ended...
A typical example...
ON benefits in Birmingham, the African war criminal we can't kick out: Rent of 'murderer' staying on human righgts grounds is being funded by tax payer | Mail Online
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon
A Great day for British justice...
oscar;1423051 wrote: There are certain benefits yes such as the bus driver who was sacked for being a member of the BNP and won In his case In the EU courts but as with any system, It Is open for abuse and It's that abuse that has to be ended...
A typical example...
ON benefits in Birmingham, the African war criminal we can't kick out: Rent of 'murderer' staying on human righgts grounds is being funded by tax payer | Mail Online
So the system is not perfect that is no reason to throw out the principle.
British terror suspects quietly stripped of citizenship¦ then killed by drones - Crime - UK - The Independent
Just because someone is accused does not make him guilty. Just because the legal system is buy no means perfect is no reason to do away with it. Therea May wants to do away with the human rights act because she think the givernment should be able to do what it likes. First the ing hitler did was susoend habeous corpus laws and imprison anyone who was likely oppose him. You really trust the government do you? How about the internment of IRA suspects - it appalled the ameruicans but the first thing theyu did after 911 was intern terror suspects and start toturing them and now they have extened the right to arrest without trial to amercan citizens. The land of the free only stays that way if you have the means to keep government in check. Human rights legislation is one such way. Bear in mind which country was first to being in these kind of laws and it wan't bcause we had a benevolent governments.
How do you think your BNP friend would have fared without the european courts? I have no synpathy for his politics but he has the ight to say what he thinks and be a member of any political party. Used to be left wimg organisations that fell foul of the establihmnt.
A typical example...
ON benefits in Birmingham, the African war criminal we can't kick out: Rent of 'murderer' staying on human righgts grounds is being funded by tax payer | Mail Online
So the system is not perfect that is no reason to throw out the principle.
British terror suspects quietly stripped of citizenship¦ then killed by drones - Crime - UK - The Independent
Just because someone is accused does not make him guilty. Just because the legal system is buy no means perfect is no reason to do away with it. Therea May wants to do away with the human rights act because she think the givernment should be able to do what it likes. First the ing hitler did was susoend habeous corpus laws and imprison anyone who was likely oppose him. You really trust the government do you? How about the internment of IRA suspects - it appalled the ameruicans but the first thing theyu did after 911 was intern terror suspects and start toturing them and now they have extened the right to arrest without trial to amercan citizens. The land of the free only stays that way if you have the means to keep government in check. Human rights legislation is one such way. Bear in mind which country was first to being in these kind of laws and it wan't bcause we had a benevolent governments.
How do you think your BNP friend would have fared without the european courts? I have no synpathy for his politics but he has the ight to say what he thinks and be a member of any political party. Used to be left wimg organisations that fell foul of the establihmnt.
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fuzzywuzzy
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A Great day for British justice...
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over......Joseph Goebbels.
"It requires strength of character to act upon one's ideas; it requires no less strength of character to resist being seduced by them."
"It requires strength of character to act upon one's ideas; it requires no less strength of character to resist being seduced by them."
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Oscar Namechange
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- Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:26 am
A Great day for British justice...
gmc;1423079 wrote: So the system is not perfect that is no reason to throw out the principle.
British terror suspects quietly stripped of citizenship¦ then killed by drones - Crime - UK - The Independent
Just because someone is accused does not make him guilty. Just because the legal system is buy no means perfect is no reason to do away with it. Therea May wants to do away with the human rights act because she think the givernment should be able to do what it likes. First the ing hitler did was susoend habeous corpus laws and imprison anyone who was likely oppose him. You really trust the government do you? How about the internment of IRA suspects - it appalled the ameruicans but the first thing theyu did after 911 was intern terror suspects and start toturing them and now they have extened the right to arrest without trial to amercan citizens. The land of the free only stays that way if you have the means to keep government in check. Human rights legislation is one such way. Bear in mind which country was first to being in these kind of laws and it wan't bcause we had a benevolent governments.
How do you think your BNP friend would have fared without the european courts? I have no synpathy for his politics but he has the ight to say what he thinks and be a member of any political party. Used to be left wimg organisations that fell foul of the establihmnt.
Like I said... no system Is ever perfect and It's the abuse...
I saw an article very recently about Intelligence regually foiling bomb plots....
UK police foil major jihad terror attack on the scale of 7/7 every year - Jihad Watch
Then there was an article last night about Cameron making It harder for Immigrants..
Along with another article about another Labourite confessing they got Immigration wrong on a mass scale....
That's the problem.... mass Immigration has allowed terror suspects In unchecked who then claim the right to family life article of the HR act and we can't get rid of them... worse we end up paying security 24/7 to monitor them...
British terror suspects quietly stripped of citizenship¦ then killed by drones - Crime - UK - The Independent
Just because someone is accused does not make him guilty. Just because the legal system is buy no means perfect is no reason to do away with it. Therea May wants to do away with the human rights act because she think the givernment should be able to do what it likes. First the ing hitler did was susoend habeous corpus laws and imprison anyone who was likely oppose him. You really trust the government do you? How about the internment of IRA suspects - it appalled the ameruicans but the first thing theyu did after 911 was intern terror suspects and start toturing them and now they have extened the right to arrest without trial to amercan citizens. The land of the free only stays that way if you have the means to keep government in check. Human rights legislation is one such way. Bear in mind which country was first to being in these kind of laws and it wan't bcause we had a benevolent governments.
How do you think your BNP friend would have fared without the european courts? I have no synpathy for his politics but he has the ight to say what he thinks and be a member of any political party. Used to be left wimg organisations that fell foul of the establihmnt.
Like I said... no system Is ever perfect and It's the abuse...
I saw an article very recently about Intelligence regually foiling bomb plots....
UK police foil major jihad terror attack on the scale of 7/7 every year - Jihad Watch
Then there was an article last night about Cameron making It harder for Immigrants..
Along with another article about another Labourite confessing they got Immigration wrong on a mass scale....
That's the problem.... mass Immigration has allowed terror suspects In unchecked who then claim the right to family life article of the HR act and we can't get rid of them... worse we end up paying security 24/7 to monitor them...
At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we will remember them. R.L. Binyon