2013 State of the Union Address

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:28 pm

Here's the text:

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/02/1 ... n-address/

Just one at random:

Thatâ€™s why, since the last time this Congress raised the minimum wage, nineteen states have chosen to bump theirs even higher.
So when a man sworn to defend the US Constitution - a document written to establish decentralized, tightly controlled government - sees that states set their own minimum wage higher than the federal rate, does he surmise that a federal minimum wage is no longer needed? NO! He sees control slipping from Washington's grasp and needs to be regained!

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:30 am

Nineteen states, not just states. That's not even half.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:51 am

So what? The point is that states can take care of many things themselves, and where they can, they should. Washington should step back.

All this is ignoring the fact that the minimum wage is only a pointless political exercise set up so that politicians will have a ready strawman to stir up fear and/or sympathy at election time.

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:45 am

Really? Tell that to the minimum wage workers that live in the states that don't see fit to increase the minimum wage to a realistic LIVING wage. Some states would be perfectly happy to pay $3 an hour if they could get away with it.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:07 am

SnoozeAgain;1420076 wrote: Really? Tell that to the minimum wage workers that live in the states that don't see fit to increase the minimum wage to a realistic LIVING wage. Some states would be perfectly happy to pay $3 an hour if they could get away with it.
Find a place that pays the federal minimum wage. Even McDonald's pays more. Don't let emotion and stereotypes get in your way.

Also, think about the minimum wage jobs and who does them. If all employers were forced to pay enough to support a family for every job, most menial job positions would go away. You'd see clerks and secretaries suddenly earning minimum wage while taking out their own trash & vacuuming their own floors.

Minimum wage is a farce that can only do harm.

flopstock · Post by **flopstock** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:32 am

My question for Rubio... aside from suggesting a camel pack next time... was why someone making what he makes is apparently expecting his mother to live off of government programs.

Seriously though, I'd like to see data on the effect raising minimum wage has had in the states that have gone this route.

Illinois is already a mess and Quinn wants to raise the minimum to 10. The only way we'll keep the few industries left here is to put up walls at the interstate exits.

AnneBoleyn · Post by **AnneBoleyn** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:55 am

SnoozeAgain;1420076 wrote: Really? Tell that to the minimum wage workers that live in the states that don't see fit to increase the minimum wage to a realistic LIVING wage. Some states would be perfectly happy to pay $3 an hour if they could get away with it.
Some states would be perfectly happy to reintroduce slavery if they could get away with it.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:04 am

AnneBoleyn;1420095 wrote: Some states would be perfectly happy to reintroduce slavery if they could get away with it.

Hah, you think? Which ones?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:32 am

Many States declared "Right to Work State" and do pay $3.00 @ hr.

Many employees in the restaurant business will be relying on tips to survive - they get paid $ 2.58 - $4.00 @ hour.

Patsy

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:36 am

Patsy Warnick;1420101 wrote: Many States declared "Right to Work State" and do pay $3.00 @ hr.

Many employees in the restaurant business will be relying on tips to survive - they get paid $ 2.58 - $4.00 @ hour.

Patsy
Thats pretty much how it works around here. In states where they don't have right to work do they pay higher wages and get no tips?

I have a son who works a second job as a server that makes a bundle with a $3.00 an hour job. Obviously on tips.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:03 am

Accountable;1420077 wrote: Find a place that pays the federal minimum wage. Even McDonald's pays more..

You obviously haven't been to New Mexico. It's like a third world country the poverty rate is so high.

halfway · Post by **halfway** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:14 am

Saint_;1420108 wrote: You obviously haven't been to New Mexico. It's like a third world country the poverty rate is so high.

You obviously are not retired military. Any grade above E-7 with at least a 20% service related injury would provide from $40,000 to 85,000 per year, yet you stated you hold 3 jobs while going back to school.

Many things are quite "OBVIOUS" my friend.

Many things.

Now quit stalking and get back to the fryer...french fries are done.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:23 am

:wah:halfway;1420111 wrote: You obviously are not retired military. Any grade above E-7 with at least a 20% service related injury would provide from $40,000 to 85,000 per year, yet you stated you hold 3 jobs while going back to school.

Many things are quite "OBVIOUS" my friend.

Many things.

Now quit stalking and get back to the fryer...french fries are done.

I'm not going "back" to school, I teach school - day school, after school program, and night school. As for why I need the money, look up the threads on my wife's health issues, her heart attack, her amputation, or even my RA, (Did you know that Enbrel is $2000 per month? Ridiculous, yes?) then you'll get it.

But enough about me...let's talk about you!:D

Oh...and sorry if I'm getting under your skin so much that you need to get personal, but honestly, I just wanted to ask some questions of you for clarification.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 2:01 pm

Accountable;1420075 wrote: So what? The point is that states can take care of many things themselves, and where they can, they should. Washington should step back.

All this is ignoring the fact that the minimum wage is only a pointless political exercise set up so that politicians will have a ready strawman to stir up fear and/or sympathy at election time.

Paying the workforce decent is one of the essentials to a successful capitalist economy. When people have free income they spend it and help generate more jobs as people manufacture to meet demand, it's the basic engine of capitalism. It's not the rich with free income that help the economy it's ordinary people. As america's workers have lost their jobs overseas or to frankly better competition your economy has declined because the buyimng power has gone. There is no point being able to import manufactured good from abroad that have been made more cheaply if no one can actually afford to buy them.

Adam Smith, who wrote "The wealth of Nations" fame. as i am sure you know is credited as the man who gave the world capitalism.

It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.â€

â€• Adam Smith

Our merchants and masters complain much of the bad effects of high wages in raising the price and lessening the sale of goods. They say nothing concerning the bad effects of high profits. They are silent with regard to the pernicious effects of their own gains. They complain only of those of other people.â€

â€• Adam Smith, The Wealth of Nations: An Inquiry into the Nature & Causes of the Wealth of Nations

Some things never change.

Saint_ · Post by **Saint_** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 3:16 pm

gmc;1420137 wrote: Paying the workforce decent is one of the essentials to a successful capitalist economy. When people have free income they spend it and help generate more jobs as people manufacture to meet demand, it's the basic engine of capitalism. It's not the rich with free income that help the economy it's ordinary people. As america's workers have lost their jobs overseas or to frankly better competition your economy has declined because the buyimng power has gone. There is no point being able to import manufactured good from abroad that have been made more cheaply if no one can actually afford to buy them.

Adam Smith, who wrote "The wealth of Nations" fame. as i am sure you know is credited as the man who gave the world capitalism.

Some things never change.

Most informative! I learned something important there, Thanks!

Snooz · Post by **Snooz** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 4:15 pm

Minimum Wage Laws in the States - Wage and Hour Division (WHD) - U.S. Department of Labor

tude dog · Post by **tude dog** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 6:45 pm

Gee, why nine bucks an hour and not twenty or more?

Nevermind

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:41 pm

Saint_;1420108 wrote: You obviously haven't been to New Mexico. It's like a third world country the poverty rate is so high.
Yes yes. Illegal aliens running the streets with automatic weapons shooting at anyone who's not breaking the law. I got it. :yh_ttth

Your third world state is actually one of those with a min wage higher than the federal. It does appear, though, that starting pay is minimum. I couldn't find anything to indicate how quickly the first raise generally comes.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 7:44 pm

Bottom line: an individual's wage doesn't come close to making it to interstate commerce. It's not a federal issue.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 8:01 pm

Next issue:

To hit the rest of our deficit reduction target, we should do what leaders in both parties have already suggested, and save hundreds of billions of dollars by getting rid of tax loopholes and deductions for the well-off and the well-connected.Yes! And everyone else, too. I think a personal deduction is plenty. no other "loopholes" are needed.

Wandrin · Post by **Wandrin** » Wed Feb 13, 2013 9:47 pm

Accountable;1420188 wrote: Next issue:

Yes! And everyone else, too. I think a personal deduction is plenty. no other "loopholes" are needed.

You'll never get congress to agree. There are too many "special" loopholes, most of which have lobbyists and many of which members of congress use themselves. We have to feel sorry for the poor oil companies, those with private jets, and even those with dancing horses.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 2:29 am

Accountable;1420187 wrote: Bottom line: an individual's wage doesn't come close to making it to interstate commerce. It's not a federal issue.

So where does the food on the table or the car, the clothes on their backs or the sitting on the drive come from? I'd have thought the prosperity of one state helps the prosperity if all. It's in the interests of every business to be based in a prosperous society, never mind fancy economic theories it's basic common sense, trouble is some businesses prefer to create fiefdoms for themselves and kind of miss the bigger picture. So you move production abroad, increase profits in the short but shut down your own industrial base and then wonder where all the customers went so you have to look for new markets. I think you could make a case it is a federal concern if not necessarily an issue. Too much interference doesn't work either.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:58 am

gmc;1420200 wrote: So where does the food on the table or the car, the clothes on their backs or the sitting on the drive come from? I'd have thought the prosperity of one state helps the prosperity if all. It's in the interests of every business to be based in a prosperous society, never mind fancy economic theories it's basic common sense, trouble is some businesses prefer to create fiefdoms for themselves and kind of miss the bigger picture. So you move production abroad, increase profits in the short but shut down your own industrial base and then wonder where all the customers went so you have to look for new markets. I think you could make a case it is a federal concern if not necessarily an issue. Too much interference doesn't work either.
Huh?? The subject was a federally mandated minimum wage for individual employees. It's strictly a local issue, and therefore not a federal issue. None of what you mention is relevant to the question.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:03 am

Wandrin;1420199 wrote: You'll never get congress to agree. There are too many "special" loopholes, most of which have lobbyists and many of which members of congress use themselves. We have to feel sorry for the poor oil companies, those with private jets, and even those with dancing horses.
Yes, there are millions of reasons to give up. Millions of us base our vote on how we might benefit personally, rather than trying to figure out who might support and defend the Constitution. That's probably as big a problem as lobbyists. Still, we have to keep trying to change minds and/or get people to think and question.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Thu Feb 14, 2013 6:53 am

Accountable;1420202 wrote: Huh?? The subject was a federally mandated minimum wage for individual employees. It's strictly a local issue, and therefore not a federal issue. None of what you mention is relevant to the question.

I said you could make a case I didn't say it would necessarily be one you would agree with:)

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Feb 16, 2013 8:02 pm

CATO's response to the State of the Union Address.

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:19 am

Interesting link. Looks to me like what we would call a right wing think tank

Why in the World Are We All Keynesians Again? The Flimsy Case for Stimulus Spending

Why in the World Are We All Keynesians Again? The Flimsy Case for Stimulus Spending | Andrew T. Young | Cato Institute

How about because the economic policies of the last forty years have been an almost unmitigated disaster. Why the hang up about healthcare when it's military spending that is really doing you in.