Bullying

[koan]

Amanda Todd is dead.

The last couple of days, the death of a 15 yr old girl in the Vancouver area has gone viral. Three years ago she let someone talk her into flashing her breasts on a webcam. The man then threatened to release the photos and video to everyone she knew unless she continued to give him "shows." Amanda refused so he followed through on threats. The police knocked on their door one night and broke the news that all the kids and teachers from her school had received copies of the pictures. They haven't been able to track down the man who did this despite him following her to every school she moved to. They have said they believe the man was in the United States but the reason for that assumption seems flimsy.

Amanda Todd’s mom speaks out about daughter’s death

What's worse is that the kids at the school took up the bullying. If it had just been the stalker and she could have found even one good friend this girl's life might have been saved. Her youtube video tells her story. It's heartbreaking.



The comments on this video are stunning. The abuse continues even after her death.

[koan]

Been reading and watching the comments for the last hour and, mixed in with the lamentations are:

"LOL she deserved to die!"

"Amanda Toad Face"

"A child who is a slut in training. MY BAD. Was."

"sounds like you ****ed up your oown life lol glad she killed herself what an idiot"

"QQ people who can't deal with bullies need to off themselves. To many whiny bitches."

"Some of you are saying that the bullies are wrong for making assumptions about her, but then turn around and make the assumption that she was a perfect angel. Even though almost NONE of you know her."

"**** Amanda Toad, Bitch should have stayed in the swamp catching fly's, Instead of using that tongue to suck some guys dick."

"What a waste of paper ;("

"You have to admit that was funny! Her head was gigantic! If I gave you the link for her nudes would you stop being so butt hurt?"

"At least Amanda is safe. Sucking dicks in hell"

reply --- "Why would you say something like that?"

answer ---- "Because its what shes good at."

Amazing what people will say with assumed anonymity. Apparently there was a mass outpouring of grief at her former schools.

Seems like some of those kids aren't really that sorry.

[Bryn Mawr]

koan;1407663 wrote: Been reading and watching the comments for the last hour and, mixed in with the lamentations are:

"LOL she deserved to die!"

"Amanda Toad Face"

"A child who is a slut in training. MY BAD. Was."

"sounds like you ****ed up your oown life lol glad she killed herself what an idiot"

"QQ people who can't deal with bullies need to off themselves. To many whiny bitches."

"Some of you are saying that the bullies are wrong for making assumptions about her, but then turn around and make the assumption that she was a perfect angel. Even though almost NONE of you know her."

"**** Amanda Toad, Bitch should have stayed in the swamp catching fly's, Instead of using that tongue to suck some guys dick."

"What a waste of paper ;("

"You have to admit that was funny! Her head was gigantic! If I gave you the link for her nudes would you stop being so butt hurt?"

"At least Amanda is safe. Sucking dicks in hell"

reply --- "Why would you say something like that?"

answer ---- "Because its what shes good at."

Amazing what people will say with assumed anonymity. Apparently there was a mass outpouring of grief at her former schools.

Seems like some of those kids aren't really that sorry.


There are some sick people in the world! Just what do they get off on?

[koan]

It really upsets me. I have to work in five hours and I can't sleep now.

Apparently they are starting to press charges more often but I'm not convinced that any actions have been useful. Some of those comments have elements of people who knew her. I hope the police investigate people posting hate on these videos. The original video and every copy of it on youtube has similar comments. After Reena Virk's murder you'd think we'd have come up with some sort of plan.

Murder of Reena Virk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are three phases to this ongoing crime.

1) The cyber stalker

2) The readiness of kids from three different schools to unite in an easy target

3) The excitement of online trolls to continue the humiliation of a victim and call her weak as if it's her fault she couldn't take the bullying

[Snooz]

You'd think they'd be very concerned about the man since he's obviously a pedophile that distributed child pornography. If I understand this correctly, he sent out photos of a 12 year old's "breasts". Charges against bullying haven't caught up to the actual offense but pedophilia is taken very seriously in our little corner of the world.

[Bryn Mawr]

koan;1407668 wrote: It really upsets me. I have to work in five hours and I can't sleep now.

Apparently they are starting to press charges more often but I'm not convinced that any actions have been useful. Some of those comments have elements of people who knew her. I hope the police investigate people posting hate on these videos. The original video and every copy of it on youtube has similar comments. After Reena Virk's murder you'd think we'd have come up with some sort of plan.

Murder of Reena Virk - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are three phases to this ongoing crime.

1) The cyber stalker

2) The readiness of kids from three different schools to unite in an easy target

3) The excitement of online trolls to continue the humiliation of a victim and call her weak as if it's her fault she couldn't take the bullying


Personally, I'd tag each of the comments with the real name of the person who made it and see how they like owning the consequences of their actions rather than hiding behind a screen.

At least she had the courage to tell her blackmailer to go to hell - they are cowards and scum of the worst kind.

[koan]

SnoozeAgain;1407669 wrote: You'd think they'd be very concerned about the man since he's obviously a pedophile that distributed child pornography. If I understand this correctly, he sent out photos of a 12 year old's "breasts". Charges against bullying haven't caught up to the actual offense but pedophilia is taken very seriously in our little corner of the world.


That was my first thought, that the paedophile should be the starting point in the investigation. The first article I linked implied that they'd looked for him and not been able to find him. That was their flimsy excuse for saying he was probably American. They claim Americans are better at hiding their IP etc. That's a load of crock. This guy had direct contact with hundreds of people via facebook and probably email. He knew where she lived... everything about her.

One of the comments said something about how her bullies were posting facebook pages mourning for her. That indicates that some of the kids in the school can and will identify who was bullying her, so that takes care of the second part.

The online part, that's something that we'll have to work out in this new age of internet communications. Trolls get off on upsetting people. Probably most, but not all of it, is basic trolling. I think the current "plan" is to count on users reporting it as "spam" or voting negative enough times it gets removed.

[koan]

It seems that facebook is the most common link in all these teen suicides. That needs to be addressed.

[koan]

The online bullying continues still. Some of the memorial pages have had her topless photo posted on them

Amanda Todd: Bullied girl’s memorial pages targeted by negative messages - thestar.com

Even after the death of Port Coquitlam teen Amanda Todd, bullies are actively posting hateful messages on Facebook memorial pages.

Messages that poke fun at her death and make Todd out to be a villain are followed by reactions from the online community, shaming those attacking her.


Amanda's death is instigating more intense action in prosecuting bullying and it is exposing the depth of depravity that social media is bringing to the problem. I'm hoping that the end result is people working out that being online does not equal faceless anonymity.

[Fiend]

Teenagers can be complete mosters.

I can understan that one man can be horrible and try to ruin the girls life, but that no one in several schools ever tried to be kind to her... that is what is trully horrific.

[koan]

It's a complex problem that goes beyond their age too.

We need think tanks to figure out a better solution than just telling kids to not do it. We can also look at the examples set for them. How many times do kids hear adults sitting around trashing someone and rejecting them from the social group? That's one of the few things they can do themselves to gain esteem. They can't go out and get a better paying job or buy fancy clothes unless their folks are rich and just hand over money upon request. If it's not their own parents, they simply see someone else do it, see that it worked and wish to not be at the wrong end of the bully stick when attention swings their way. Learned behaviour? Survival instinct?

Relational Aggression is one of the few methods of acquiring personal power that teenagers have. Once out of school there are other means of showing or attaining a sense of worth though peer group manipulation remains a constant. We hear more about it in kids because they are more vulnerable and it can result in suicide more easily but it doesn't really end after high school.

[koan]

Anonymous claims to have found the pedophile.

I'm hesitant to post the name they've given until there's some sort of confirmation that the guy is responsible. Looks like he's at least guilty of participating in teen porn if not the guy behind the Amanda Todd case. It would be nice if the internet that helped destroy her also helps bring her tormentors to justice.

[southern yankee]

I was bullied more by teachers, (nuns) i did have learning disability back in the 60's u were labled RETARTED and your parents were told to send me away til i was old enough to live in a group home. i did. thank u mom standing up for mr. i learned in my 30's i had ADD plus i was deslexiuse. being a FAT four- eyed kid who was over grown for her age, was teased, tripped and laughted at a lot.and slammed into walls. to read out law was a true night mare. the nun s encouraged the students behavior. any one who went through grief and pain like this. understands who a child may loose it one. shame on those nuns and kids. if you

ionly knew how you played such a big part of crushing my self esteen. and self worth. never sorry for what they have done. i wonder if this is done to their child or grandchild by a kid or to theres?????? would like to hear a bullies story, WHY??????:-1

[Fiend]

koan;1407820 wrote: It's a complex problem that goes beyond their age too.

We need think tanks to figure out a better solution than just telling kids to not do it. We can also look at the examples set for them. How many times do kids hear adults sitting around trashing someone and rejecting them from the social group? That's one of the few things they can do themselves to gain esteem. They can't go out and get a better paying job or buy fancy clothes unless their folks are rich and just hand over money upon request. If it's not their own parents, they simply see someone else do it, see that it worked and wish to not be at the wrong end of the bully stick when attention swings their way. Learned behaviour? Survival instinct?

Relational Aggression is one of the few methods of acquiring personal power that teenagers have. Once out of school there are other means of showing or attaining a sense of worth though peer group manipulation remains a constant. We hear more about it in kids because they are more vulnerable and it can result in suicide more easily but it doesn't really end after high school.


The only think I can think of is doing the same thing they did in Indian prisons - introducing meditation courses, but unlike in prisons, in high-schools you'd probably have to make them obligatory.

Half jokes aside, I do believe our attitude towards teenagers is a bit skewed these days. People had families at their age only 2 centuries ago while today they are treated as children. Children can get away with a lot of things. Children are not obliged to think about the consequences of their actions. Children can just blindly follow pack mentality and tell themselves that they did not know any better.

In my opinion, the one thing that can be done is treating them as adults, leaving no doubt that all their actions today will have consequences (not being grounded or having their allowance revoked, but explaining that what they do defines the kind of person they are becoming), trying to give them a sense of purpose and some way of defining their self worth other then trough the eyes of others.

It is not an easy, over night solution, but it does solve the problem from two sides - it does not raise bullies and it does not raise bully victims.

I was raised in a similar way, and though I was far from popular, I was never ever bullied, even though I would have been a perfect candidate (new kid, very few friends, a bit weird, too smart, too quiet). But no one ever really tried and I have no regrets about the way I spent my teens.

I suppose that the problem with this course of action is that in order to take it, parents have to reach a certain level of awareness themselves. A lot of people do not have it, but I guess these things happen step by step.

[freetobeme]

It seems that this cyber bullying is on the increase and the recent deaths are spurring calls for more legislation (in Canada anyway) and being used by the opposition to score political points.

I'm not sure that more legislation is the answer and Canada's Senate committee has been looking into it, so I await their report.

Many people don't believe that more legislation is the answer, maybe what is needed is more education at home and at school. However, the Canadian courts have already interpreted criminal harassment in a provision of the Criminal Code to apply to behaviour committed via the Internet. Bill C-45 - Overview : OSH Answers

It may not be enough, but we should read the Senate committee's report before changing or adding to current legislation.

Bullying seems to be getting worse but it seems to me that this requires intervention from many areas, students, teachers and parents, so legislation is not the final answer. It may help as a support rule, but it can't regulate school yard, or social network relationships. It's a pretty complicated situation.

Here's a reaction to the Senate committee

[koan]

For the "part 1" segment of this sad tale, Anonymous now says they got the address and age wrong but that the man they named is currently attending court on charges of sexual assault and sexual interference with a minor. The man, Dakota Maxson, has said he knew Amanda Todd but claims he was helping her to try and track down her predator. He claims it was another blogtv user named Viper2323. It seems unlikely that Dakota (Kody1206) who won "Blackmailer of the year" awards on The Daily Capper summaries was "helping" Ms Todd. Whatever the story, Maxson has not been charged with anything and the internet response to the Anonymous file dumps shows potential for riling up vigilante mobs.

Kody's name has been published in newspapers now and his mother has responded that he is troubled but innocent of the accusations. The original details given by AnonymousNJ said Maxson was 30 or 32 but he is now known to be 19. They said he lived in New Westminster but seems he resides in Surrey. Surrey courts will soon decide if he is innocent of similar crimes allegedly committed in February 2012.

Anonymous names man who allegedly drove Amanda Todd to suicide - National Women's Issues | Examiner.com

[Oscar Namechange]

A girl decided to bully me In school. She was older than me and at the time I had no Idea of why she had turned her attention to me. I confided In the head teacher and he put a stop to It Inside the school but she started waiting for me outside the school on my way home at the point where she knew I broke from my group of friends as I lived further out and the last part of the walk home I did alone.

The matter was resolved after about 2 weeks of this when she found my brothers waiting for her at the last part of my walk. Then I punched her In the face.... It never happened again and I feel absolutely no shame to this day. She was a big brute of a girl, older and bigger than me and I feel no shame for splattering her nose over her face because she had felt no shame In attempting to terrorise me. Later she tried to befriend me and told me her actions were due to being Jealous of the parents and family I had.

Not so long ago, someone tried bullying me on the Internet and made the mistake of putting It In writing. The local police were more than happy to oblige me under The Malicious Communications Act and Harrassment Laws.... that was the end of that..... although everything remains on file with them....surprising what a visit from Plod will do to someone.... not so clever now eh ????

[koan]

I'm not sure punching people in the face is the solution we're looking for here.

Premiere Christy Clark is looking at drafting new legislation to criminalize bullying. She "spear headed" anti-bullying programs in the past and it doesn't seem to have done much. I'm intrigued to see what sort of legislation they come up with. So far, the court system is little more than a playground for who has the best lawyer and very much a travesty to justice.

[koan]

Fiend;1407991 wrote: ... trying to give them a sense of purpose and some way of defining their self worth ....

It is not an easy, over night solution, but it does solve the problem from two sides - it does not raise bullies and it does not raise bully victims.

....

I suppose that the problem with this course of action is that in order to take it, parents have to reach a certain level of awareness themselves. A lot of people do not have it, but I guess these things happen step by step.
I have said, since I was about 16, that the main problems in this world stem from a lack of personal power. If people feel in control of their lives and that they have purpose and worth, they don't go about stealing it from others around them. It's an endless cycle. Stealing personal power creates more people with low sense of personal power who steal it from someone else... and on and on.

You can't just say "you're the most important person in the world" (the actual slogan used in my era) because people forget that's true of everyone and it continues the value system where one person is "more important." A very ill thought out slogan, indeed.

[koan]

8 teenage girls arrested in London Ontario today for alleged bullying of a schoolmate. Tips came in after Amanda Todd's suicide.

Eight teens arrested in Canada in new bullying case

[gmc]

Psychological bullying is the worst in many ways and can completely shatter someone's confidence A lot of the best stand up comedians were bullied as kids, their wits were how they countered the bullies - a one line put down can shut up the worst. I learned not to rise to insults but could never think of anything to say at the time which is probably why I am not a stand up comedian.

Bullying can become a habit for some (how many of us have had to put up with a bully as a manager) it's also a displacement activity - they are inadequate in some portion of their lives so they exert authority on those they can. It's one of the reasons I ended up with my own business, I got fed up putting up with all the crap.

Physical bullying is easier in some ways, I got targeted by a gang when i first started secondary school, was too intimidated to fight back till one day I completely lost my temper and flattened two of them and that was the end of it.

[fuzzywuzzy]

koan;1407662 wrote: Amanda Todd is dead.

The last couple of days, the death of a 15 yr old girl in the Vancouver area has gone viral. Three years ago she let someone talk her into flashing her breasts on a webcam. The man then threatened to release the photos and video to everyone she knew unless she continued to give him "shows." Amanda refused so he followed through on threats. The police knocked on their door one night and broke the news that all the kids and teachers from her school had received copies of the pictures. They haven't been able to track down the man who did this despite him following her to every school she moved to. They have said they believe the man was in the United States but the reason for that assumption seems flimsy.

Amanda Todd’s mom speaks out about daughter’s death

What's worse is that the kids at the school took up the bullying. If it had just been the stalker and she could have found even one good friend this girl's life might have been saved. Her youtube video tells her story. It's heartbreaking.



The comments on this video are stunning. The abuse continues even after her death.


that's not bullying ..that's sexual assault and what comes to a woman after sexual assault ..there's a difference .

[K.Snyder]

koan;1407673 wrote: It seems that facebook is the most common link in all these teen suicides. That needs to be addressed.


I see facebook as being invaluable in such instances. Without it the world wouldn't be aware of what is an obvious cultural problem. It would remain isolated incidences that would never move beyond local school communities.

Can you elaborate on why facebook needs to be addressed?

[koan]

gmc;1408516 wrote: Psychological bullying is the worst in many ways and can completely shatter someone's confidence A lot of the best stand up comedians were bullied as kids, their wits were how they countered the bullies - a one line put down can shut up the worst. I learned not to rise to insults but could never think of anything to say at the time which is probably why I am not a stand up comedian.

Bullying can become a habit for some (how many of us have had to put up with a bully as a manager) it's also a displacement activity - they are inadequate in some portion of their lives so they exert authority on those they can. It's one of the reasons I ended up with my own business, I got fed up putting up with all the crap.

Physical bullying is easier in some ways, I got targeted by a gang when i first started secondary school, was too intimidated to fight back till one day I completely lost my temper and flattened two of them and that was the end of it.
I've noticed a wide variety of articles trying to address the wider range of bullying that should be dealt with and the workplace is one of the issues brought up fairly quickly. It's not just kids doing this. Four of my last five jobs ended because I wouldn't tolerate bullying. So glad I got back where I am now, we have a blast and get along fabulously. Really hard to find that kind of environment at work anymore.



fuzzywuzzy;1408529 wrote: that's not bullying ..that's sexual assault and what comes to a woman after sexual assault ..there's a difference .
This was discussed in quite a few articles right off the start. Slut shaming is a huge problem and the girls often don't even have to have had sex or cam stripped for it to happen. On a slightly different variation: A co-worker told me that she got labelled a lesbian after a popular girl invited her for a sleepover then started hitting on her. Guess the girl was desperate to cover up being 'outed' herself. My co-worker said that's probably why she got married straight out of highschool. She wanted to prove she was straight.



K.Snyder;1408547 wrote: I see facebook as being invaluable in such instances. Without it the world wouldn't be aware of what is an obvious cultural problem. It would remain isolated incidences that would never move beyond local school communities.

Can you elaborate on why facebook needs to be addressed?
For all the good things facebook provides (and there are more good than bad) I think there needs to be a fast route to getting rid of these "pages" that are created to bully and should be penalties affecting creator's main accounts if they are connected to a bully page or a page claiming to be someone else. Amanda Todd's mother is being impersonated in attempts to get donations etc.

Aside from that, facebook itself can't regulate everything but people need an outlined recommendation of steps to take if they feel they are being bullied or stalked on FB in the same way they have steps to follow if they are being bullied at school or work. It's not as simple as just deleting your page. It's becoming a more and more important social networking tool.

[koan]

A Toronto teen has been charged with extortion, death threats, and distributing child pornography after using nude photos of an internet "girlfriend" against her in a similar manner as the Todd case.

Days after Amanda Todd’s suicide, Toronto teen arrested for allegedly extorting girlfriend with lewd photos | Posted Toronto | National Post