One of the several reasons I remain a born again atheist.
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. (Leviticus 25:44-45)
Jesus Saves.
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jones jones
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"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
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jones jones
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And another one ....
For 375 years from 1161 the Bishops of Winchester controlled all prostitution and brothels in London. This lucrative business was useful to the Church both to accommodate female orphans and to service the clergy (who were not allowed to marry). These prostitutes were euphemistically called Winchester Geese.
This ecclesiastical pimping was only ended in 1546 when Henry VIII kicked the Catholic Church out of England.
This dirty little secret of Christianity is referenced in Shakespeare’s Henry VI when Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester, reproaches the Bishop of Winchester with “Thou that giv’st whores indulgences to sin.”
The Winchester Geese were buried in the unconsecrated Crossbones graveyard. The gates of the Crossbones graveyard are permanently adorned with a changing array of messages, ribbons, flowers and other tokens that are left in memory of these outcast dead.
‘Sleep well you winged spirits of intimate joy.’
For 375 years from 1161 the Bishops of Winchester controlled all prostitution and brothels in London. This lucrative business was useful to the Church both to accommodate female orphans and to service the clergy (who were not allowed to marry). These prostitutes were euphemistically called Winchester Geese.
This ecclesiastical pimping was only ended in 1546 when Henry VIII kicked the Catholic Church out of England.
This dirty little secret of Christianity is referenced in Shakespeare’s Henry VI when Humphrey, Duke of Gloucester, reproaches the Bishop of Winchester with “Thou that giv’st whores indulgences to sin.”
The Winchester Geese were buried in the unconsecrated Crossbones graveyard. The gates of the Crossbones graveyard are permanently adorned with a changing array of messages, ribbons, flowers and other tokens that are left in memory of these outcast dead.
‘Sleep well you winged spirits of intimate joy.’
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Jesus Saves.
I much prefer to live in the present.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Jesus Saves.
So, other than Bruv's remark, what does any of that have to do with Jesus?
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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jones jones
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LarsMac;1400275 wrote: So, other than Bruv's remark, what does any of that have to do with Jesus?
I can sense from this and a previous remark you made ... which of course IS your democratic right ... that you are a believer. As such whatever answer I give will make no difference at all to you. I shall therefor refrain from answering your question.
I can sense from this and a previous remark you made ... which of course IS your democratic right ... that you are a believer. As such whatever answer I give will make no difference at all to you. I shall therefor refrain from answering your question.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
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Omni_Skittles
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That's interesting to know about the whores and wow you took the time to read leviticus? I snoozed during that book
Smoke signals ftw!
Jesus Saves.
But.....but....you joined a "forum", they are for two way conversations.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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jones jones
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Bruv;1400281 wrote: But.....but....you joined a "forum", they are for two way conversations.
Sometimes in order to avoid hurting another earthling's feelings it is best to remain silent. However, I shall answer the question so as to give you further ammu ... I mean food for thought. One cannot seperate the 'son of god" from anything written in either the old or the new testament. It would be like reading the bible amd never seeing the word Jehova (Yaweh) in it.
Sometimes in order to avoid hurting another earthling's feelings it is best to remain silent. However, I shall answer the question so as to give you further ammu ... I mean food for thought. One cannot seperate the 'son of god" from anything written in either the old or the new testament. It would be like reading the bible amd never seeing the word Jehova (Yaweh) in it.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Jesus Saves.
You could avoid hurting feelings by not referring to your fellow man as earthlings..............but that's enough of my foibles.
And..................what has anything you have written got to do with the son of god ?
And..................what has anything you have written got to do with the son of god ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Jesus Saves.
Im an atheist myself but there is huge distance between being a good Christian/Jew/Muslim and believing that the whole of the bible is the inerrant word of God. The books of the Old Testament are of a time, a medieval period. They arent neccessarily in line with modern Christianity, for most I assume any way, so should be seperated as such.
Or am I wrong.
I have a problem with rabid Atheism. Religion is, or should be a personal spiritual journey. One that I have no wish to walk but I am happy if it fulfills the life of others. It has nothing to do with me at all, unless of course it impinges on my life.
Or am I wrong.
I have a problem with rabid Atheism. Religion is, or should be a personal spiritual journey. One that I have no wish to walk but I am happy if it fulfills the life of others. It has nothing to do with me at all, unless of course it impinges on my life.
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Jesus Saves.
jones jones;1400278 wrote: I can sense from this and a previous remark you made ... which of course IS your democratic right ... that you are a believer. As such whatever answer I give will make no difference at all to you. I shall therefor refrain from answering your question.
You presume to know me by my previous remarks and presume that because I am a 'believer' that I am inflexible?
Bruv;1400281 wrote: But.....but....you joined a "forum", they are for two way conversations.
Precisely.
jones jones;1400282 wrote: Sometimes in order to avoid hurting another earthling's feelings it is best to remain silent. However, I shall answer the question so as to give you further ammu ... I mean food for thought.
I seriously doubt that you could hurt my feelings so easily.
jones jones;1400282 wrote: One cannot seperate the 'son of god" from anything written in either the old or the new testament. It would be like reading the bible amd never seeing the word Jehova (Yaweh) in it.
I have heard that notion expressed often from the bible-thumpers, but seldom from an atheists.
This would be like rejecting the US Constitution as completely worthless because it failed to address slavery.
So we completely ignore the historical and philosophical context of the thing?
Just asking.
You presume to know me by my previous remarks and presume that because I am a 'believer' that I am inflexible?
Bruv;1400281 wrote: But.....but....you joined a "forum", they are for two way conversations.
Precisely.
jones jones;1400282 wrote: Sometimes in order to avoid hurting another earthling's feelings it is best to remain silent. However, I shall answer the question so as to give you further ammu ... I mean food for thought.
I seriously doubt that you could hurt my feelings so easily.
jones jones;1400282 wrote: One cannot seperate the 'son of god" from anything written in either the old or the new testament. It would be like reading the bible amd never seeing the word Jehova (Yaweh) in it.
I have heard that notion expressed often from the bible-thumpers, but seldom from an atheists.
This would be like rejecting the US Constitution as completely worthless because it failed to address slavery.
So we completely ignore the historical and philosophical context of the thing?
Just asking.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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jones jones
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Jesus Saves.
Bruv;1400283 wrote: You could avoid hurting feelings by not referring to your fellow man as earthlings..............but that's enough of my foibles.
And..................what has anything you have written got to do with the son of god ?
Citizen Bruv ... The main reason why I refer to my fellow men/women as earthlings is because the usual alternative word/s would be "human' or 'human beings." As I come in contact with many people who do not qualify as human, I prefer to use the term 'earthling "which covers anyone who is a resident on this planet ... human or otherwise. If this word offends you then perhaps you can suggest an alternative for me to use when I "speak" to you.
As to this: And..................what has anything you have written got to do with the son of god ?
I am and have always been prepared to enter into a dialogue/discussion/debate with any member of Forum Garden on any subject they choose with only one proviso ... we always play the ball and NOT the man. All too often so called "debates" here rapidly turn into a free for all with personal remarks being thrown back and forth.
If you would are prepared to adhere to the above proviso then we can discuss anything to wish.
And..................what has anything you have written got to do with the son of god ?
Citizen Bruv ... The main reason why I refer to my fellow men/women as earthlings is because the usual alternative word/s would be "human' or 'human beings." As I come in contact with many people who do not qualify as human, I prefer to use the term 'earthling "which covers anyone who is a resident on this planet ... human or otherwise. If this word offends you then perhaps you can suggest an alternative for me to use when I "speak" to you.
As to this: And..................what has anything you have written got to do with the son of god ?
I am and have always been prepared to enter into a dialogue/discussion/debate with any member of Forum Garden on any subject they choose with only one proviso ... we always play the ball and NOT the man. All too often so called "debates" here rapidly turn into a free for all with personal remarks being thrown back and forth.
If you would are prepared to adhere to the above proviso then we can discuss anything to wish.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Jesus Saves.
Snowfire;1400284 wrote: Im an atheist myself but there is huge distance between being a good Christian/Jew/Muslim and believing that the whole of the bible is the inerrant word of God. The books of the Old Testament are of a time, a medieval period. They arent neccessarily in line with modern Christianity, for most I assume any way, so should be seperated as such.
Well said.
Snowfire;1400284 wrote: Or am I wrong. I think not.
Snowfire;1400284 wrote: I have a problem with rabid Atheism. Religion is, or should be a personal spiritual journey. One that I have no wish to walk but I am happy if it fulfills the life of others. It has nothing to do with me at all, unless of course it impinges on my life.
Rabid philosophies of all sorts can be disturbing.
I have friends with all sorts of notions about life, the universe, and everything. We tend to get along quite well, without hiding or overly touting our particular points of view.
Well said.
Snowfire;1400284 wrote: Or am I wrong. I think not.
Snowfire;1400284 wrote: I have a problem with rabid Atheism. Religion is, or should be a personal spiritual journey. One that I have no wish to walk but I am happy if it fulfills the life of others. It has nothing to do with me at all, unless of course it impinges on my life.
Rabid philosophies of all sorts can be disturbing.
I have friends with all sorts of notions about life, the universe, and everything. We tend to get along quite well, without hiding or overly touting our particular points of view.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Jesus Saves.
jones jones;1400287 wrote: Citizen Bruv ... The main reason why I refer to my fellow men/women as earthlings is because the usual alternative word/s would be "human' or 'human beings." As I come in contact with many people who do not qualify as human, I prefer to use the term 'earthling "which covers anyone who is a resident on this planet ... human or otherwise. If this word offends you then perhaps you can suggest an alternative for me to use when I "speak" to you.
As to this: And..................what has anything you have written got to do with the son of god ?
I am and have always been prepared to enter into a dialogue/discussion/debate with any member of Forum Garden on any subject they choose with only one proviso ... we always play the ball and NOT the man. All too often so called "debates" here rapidly turn into a free for all with personal remarks being thrown back and forth.
If you would are prepared to adhere to the above proviso then we can discuss anything to wish.
Well, perhaps he is an alien. Some aliens are offended when they are mistaken for locals.
As to this: And..................what has anything you have written got to do with the son of god ?
I am and have always been prepared to enter into a dialogue/discussion/debate with any member of Forum Garden on any subject they choose with only one proviso ... we always play the ball and NOT the man. All too often so called "debates" here rapidly turn into a free for all with personal remarks being thrown back and forth.
If you would are prepared to adhere to the above proviso then we can discuss anything to wish.
Well, perhaps he is an alien. Some aliens are offended when they are mistaken for locals.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Jesus Saves.
Besides, calling one an Earthling suggests they may not be citizens of the greater Universe.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Jesus Saves.
jones jones;1400282 wrote: Sometimes in order to avoid hurting another's feelings ......
Here is a fair solution....................don't you think ?
jones jones;1400287 wrote: Citizen Bruv ...
Bruv would do.......why all the affectation ?
Here is a fair solution....................don't you think ?
jones jones;1400287 wrote: Citizen Bruv ...
Bruv would do.......why all the affectation ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Jesus Saves.
Not sure I'm happy with being referred to as an earthling, you ugly bag of mostly water (Star Trek, I think )
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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jones jones
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Jesus Saves.
QUOTE=LarsMac;1400286]You presume to know me by my previous remarks and presume that because I am a 'believer' that I am inflexible?
I certainly do not presume to "know" you at all. However as an atheist I have had to defend my lack of belief to believers on more occasions than I care to remember. From experience gained in this way I have found that the vast majority of Christians are indeed very inflexible. "The bible says so and thats good enough for me." is their mantra.
Precisely.
I seriously doubt that you could hurt my feelings so easily.
I have heard that notion expressed often from the bible-thumpers, but seldom from an atheists.
This would be like rejecting the US Constitution as completely worthless because it failed to address slavery.
So we completely ignore the historical and philosophical context of the thing? I was not aware that such things were ever part of a belief in god or otherwise,
Just asking.[/QUOTE]
I certainly do not presume to "know" you at all. However as an atheist I have had to defend my lack of belief to believers on more occasions than I care to remember. From experience gained in this way I have found that the vast majority of Christians are indeed very inflexible. "The bible says so and thats good enough for me." is their mantra.
Precisely.
I seriously doubt that you could hurt my feelings so easily.
I have heard that notion expressed often from the bible-thumpers, but seldom from an atheists.
This would be like rejecting the US Constitution as completely worthless because it failed to address slavery.
So we completely ignore the historical and philosophical context of the thing? I was not aware that such things were ever part of a belief in god or otherwise,
Just asking.[/QUOTE]
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
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jones jones
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Jesus Saves.
Bruv;1400291 wrote: Here is a fair solution....................don't you think ?
Bruv would do.......why all the affectation ?
Then Bruv it shall be from this day hence.
Bruv would do.......why all the affectation ?
Then Bruv it shall be from this day hence.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Jesus Saves.
As such whatever answer I give will make no difference at all to you. I shall therefor refrain from answering your question.
Sounds a bit presumptuous to me.
So we completely ignore the historical and philosophical context of the thing? I was not aware that such things were ever part of a belief in god or otherwise,
IF you could see the difficulty I am having with that statement,...
Sounds a bit presumptuous to me.
So we completely ignore the historical and philosophical context of the thing? I was not aware that such things were ever part of a belief in god or otherwise,
IF you could see the difficulty I am having with that statement,...
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Jesus Saves.
jones jones;1400294 wrote: Then Bruv it shall be from this day hence.
Right then....we have sorted that out, all we have to do now is sort out your quotes.
Try previewing your post before clicking 'Post' ..............
Right then....we have sorted that out, all we have to do now is sort out your quotes.
Try previewing your post before clicking 'Post' ..............
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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jones jones
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So Lars .. Shall we then resign ourselves to the fact that I am an atheist and you are not and leave it there? Religious debates are seldom if ever brought to a logical conclusion.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
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jones jones
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Jesus Saves.
Bruv;1400297 wrote: Right then....we have sorted that out, all we have to do now is sort out your quotes.
Try previewing your post before clicking 'Post' ..............
OMG! Not more "foibles." Jeeze!
Try previewing your post before clicking 'Post' ..............
OMG! Not more "foibles." Jeeze!
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Jesus Saves.
jones jones;1400299 wrote: OMG! Not more "foibles." Jeeze!
Not at all.
It makes your post readable......
Now then.....atheist.....what's with the OMG and Jeeze......make your mind up.
Not at all.
It makes your post readable......
Now then.....atheist.....what's with the OMG and Jeeze......make your mind up.
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
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jones jones
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Jesus Saves.
Bruv;1400300 wrote: Not at all.
It makes your post readable......
Now then.....atheist.....what's with the OMG and Jeeze......make your mind up.
Come on Bruv ... Even the words Satan, devil and fornicate are in the dictionary for all to use whatever their belief.
It makes your post readable......
Now then.....atheist.....what's with the OMG and Jeeze......make your mind up.
Come on Bruv ... Even the words Satan, devil and fornicate are in the dictionary for all to use whatever their belief.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Jesus Saves.
jones jones;1400298 wrote: So Lars .. Shall we then resign ourselves to the fact that I am an atheist and you are not and leave it there? Religious debates are seldom if ever brought to a logical conclusion.
Well, to bring something to a logical conclusion, one must employ logic.
By all means, Carry on.
I shall exhibit no further interest in your meanderings.
Well, to bring something to a logical conclusion, one must employ logic.
By all means, Carry on.
I shall exhibit no further interest in your meanderings.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Jesus Saves.
LarsMac;1400275 wrote: So, other than Bruv's remark, what does any of that have to do with Jesus?
The hypocrisy shown by the behaviour of the catholic church in keeping brothels and all the other little foibles they were guilty of and the explosion of religious debate that followed the printing of the bible in the languages of the common people has a great deal to do with the way you view jesus and worship him in your church in the present day. Biggest impact was the realisation that what they were being told by the priests was the message of Jesus was very different from what they saw when they read the bible for themselves. Without the success of the protestant reformation your church would not exist today. In 1546 you would have been condemned as a heretic and god forbid that you should believe the way to salvation was through personal salvation - or what ever you might believe. I assume you are not a catholic - as such you do not follow the tenets of the one true church and are going straight to hell. As an atheist I don't believe you are but then since I would posit that the visions of hell are a careful construct to frighten people to their knees in submission to the church I will probably be joining you in hell - should it exist.
Never actually met a rabid atheist, the odd one or two that reject religion without really knowing why perhaps but I have known several rabid Christians but since other Christians say they are not true Christians it would appear merely saying you are a Christian does not mean that you are unless you follow one with the correct procedures.
posted by larsmac
Well, to bring something to a logical conclusion, one must employ logic.
By all means, Carry on.
I shall exhibit no further interest in your meanderings.
Faith and reason cannot co-exist, faith must overcome reason or at least completely ignore it
The hypocrisy shown by the behaviour of the catholic church in keeping brothels and all the other little foibles they were guilty of and the explosion of religious debate that followed the printing of the bible in the languages of the common people has a great deal to do with the way you view jesus and worship him in your church in the present day. Biggest impact was the realisation that what they were being told by the priests was the message of Jesus was very different from what they saw when they read the bible for themselves. Without the success of the protestant reformation your church would not exist today. In 1546 you would have been condemned as a heretic and god forbid that you should believe the way to salvation was through personal salvation - or what ever you might believe. I assume you are not a catholic - as such you do not follow the tenets of the one true church and are going straight to hell. As an atheist I don't believe you are but then since I would posit that the visions of hell are a careful construct to frighten people to their knees in submission to the church I will probably be joining you in hell - should it exist.
Never actually met a rabid atheist, the odd one or two that reject religion without really knowing why perhaps but I have known several rabid Christians but since other Christians say they are not true Christians it would appear merely saying you are a Christian does not mean that you are unless you follow one with the correct procedures.
posted by larsmac
Well, to bring something to a logical conclusion, one must employ logic.
By all means, Carry on.
I shall exhibit no further interest in your meanderings.
Faith and reason cannot co-exist, faith must overcome reason or at least completely ignore it
Jesus Saves.
gmc;1400330 wrote: The hypocrisy shown by the behaviour of the catholic church in keeping brothels and all the other little foibles they were guilty of and the explosion of religious debate that followed the printing of the bible in the languages of the common people has a great deal to do with the way you view jesus and worship him in your church in the present day. Biggest impact was the realisation that what they were being told by the priests was the message of Jesus was very different from what they saw when they read the bible for themselves. Without the success of the protestant reformation your church would not exist today. In 1546 you would have been condemned as a heretic and god forbid that you should believe the way to salvation was through personal salvation - or what ever you might believe. I assume you are not a catholic - as such you do not follow the tenets of the one true church and are going straight to hell. As an atheist I don't believe you are but then since I would posit that the visions of hell are a careful construct to frighten people to their knees in submission to the church I will probably be joining you in hell - should it exist.
Never actually met a rabid atheist, the odd one or two that reject religion without really knowing why perhaps but I have known several rabid Christians but since other Christians say they are not true Christians it would appear merely saying you are a Christian does not mean that you are unless you follow one with the correct procedures.
Well, yes, I have seen the hypocrisy of the church leadership, and it is not just "the One True Church" where such can be seen. Nearly every one of the "True Churches" wallow in it.
We shall probably both find ourselves in whatever "hell" awaits those who fail to show proper respect for those in the know.
gmc;1400330 wrote: Faith and reason cannot co-exist, faith must overcome reason or at least completely ignore it
This is all well and good, but I again must ask, what has any of it got to do with Jesus?
Never actually met a rabid atheist, the odd one or two that reject religion without really knowing why perhaps but I have known several rabid Christians but since other Christians say they are not true Christians it would appear merely saying you are a Christian does not mean that you are unless you follow one with the correct procedures.
Well, yes, I have seen the hypocrisy of the church leadership, and it is not just "the One True Church" where such can be seen. Nearly every one of the "True Churches" wallow in it.
We shall probably both find ourselves in whatever "hell" awaits those who fail to show proper respect for those in the know.
gmc;1400330 wrote: Faith and reason cannot co-exist, faith must overcome reason or at least completely ignore it
This is all well and good, but I again must ask, what has any of it got to do with Jesus?
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Jesus Saves.
Never met a rabid atheist ? Glaswegian entertained himself here with his atheistic form of fundamentalism. I didnt see much reasoning so much as a crusade against those that had some sort of belief.
Religion is an important source of comfort to a lot of people and while I dont share their beliefs at all, who am I to decide for them. My own spirituality revolves around my happiness and well being and not God. There are far better minds in the world who believe in God than this simple atheist.
Dont get me wrong, I'll argue my point against the best of them but so it seems do those that have a belief
Religion is an important source of comfort to a lot of people and while I dont share their beliefs at all, who am I to decide for them. My own spirituality revolves around my happiness and well being and not God. There are far better minds in the world who believe in God than this simple atheist.
Dont get me wrong, I'll argue my point against the best of them but so it seems do those that have a belief
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
Jesus Saves.
LarsMac;1400334 wrote:
This is all well and good, but I again must ask, what has any of it got to do with Jesus?
The way you think about jesus and what you know about his life and the bible. Why do you believe in jesus and how do you see him? Once upon a time the answer would have been given to you and you could not question (at least not openly) what you were told. The way to salvation was not always through a personal acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah and receiving the Holy Spirit as many born again christians believe, The freedom you have to find your own way to jesus was gained only after much bloodshed you have a spiritual freedom to worship as you please finding your own way to jesus because of the protestant revolution and the age of enlightenment whether you are aware of it or not those events shaped the way you worship jesus today.
posted by snowfire
Never met a rabid atheist ? Glaswegian entertained himself here with his atheistic form of fundamentalism. I didnt see much reasoning so much as a crusade against those that had some sort of belief.
Religion is an important source of comfort to a lot of people and while I dont share their beliefs at all, who am I to decide for them. My own spirituality revolves around my happiness and well being and not God. There are far better minds in the world who believe in God than this simple atheist.
Dont get me wrong, I'll argue my point against the best of them but so it seems do those that have a belief
Whose suggesting you should decide for them? It seems to me that any time an atheist or a deist expresses an opinion or advocates that a secular society is the fairest way to do things they are accused of attacking religious belief. Holding a strong opinion does not make you rabid. Religious belief is indefensible imo and sectarianism a bane on our society. religious bigotry is unreasoning and unyielding, sometimes it can seem the only defence is to be the same in return. I come from the same cultural background as glaswegian I can empathise with his views even if not wholeheartedly agreeing with them.
This is all well and good, but I again must ask, what has any of it got to do with Jesus?
The way you think about jesus and what you know about his life and the bible. Why do you believe in jesus and how do you see him? Once upon a time the answer would have been given to you and you could not question (at least not openly) what you were told. The way to salvation was not always through a personal acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah and receiving the Holy Spirit as many born again christians believe, The freedom you have to find your own way to jesus was gained only after much bloodshed you have a spiritual freedom to worship as you please finding your own way to jesus because of the protestant revolution and the age of enlightenment whether you are aware of it or not those events shaped the way you worship jesus today.
posted by snowfire
Never met a rabid atheist ? Glaswegian entertained himself here with his atheistic form of fundamentalism. I didnt see much reasoning so much as a crusade against those that had some sort of belief.
Religion is an important source of comfort to a lot of people and while I dont share their beliefs at all, who am I to decide for them. My own spirituality revolves around my happiness and well being and not God. There are far better minds in the world who believe in God than this simple atheist.
Dont get me wrong, I'll argue my point against the best of them but so it seems do those that have a belief
Whose suggesting you should decide for them? It seems to me that any time an atheist or a deist expresses an opinion or advocates that a secular society is the fairest way to do things they are accused of attacking religious belief. Holding a strong opinion does not make you rabid. Religious belief is indefensible imo and sectarianism a bane on our society. religious bigotry is unreasoning and unyielding, sometimes it can seem the only defence is to be the same in return. I come from the same cultural background as glaswegian I can empathise with his views even if not wholeheartedly agreeing with them.
Jesus Saves.
gmc;1400381 wrote: The way you think about jesus and what you know about his life and the bible. Why do you believe in jesus and how do you see him? Once upon a time the answer would have been given to you and you could not question (at least not openly) what you were told. The way to salvation was not always through a personal acceptance of Jesus as the Messiah and receiving the Holy Spirit as many born again christians believe, The freedom you have to find your own way to jesus was gained only after much bloodshed you have a spiritual freedom to worship as you please finding your own way to jesus because of the protestant revolution and the age of enlightenment whether you are aware of it or not those events shaped the way you worship jesus today.
Sure. I am aware of the history. Actually read a lot more than the Bible.
Sure. I am aware of the history. Actually read a lot more than the Bible.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Jesus Saves.
jones jones;1400269 wrote: One of the several reasons I remain a born again atheist.
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. (Leviticus 25:44-45)
Hehe. That's just capitalism hard at work.
You think that's religious?
However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. (Leviticus 25:44-45)
Hehe. That's just capitalism hard at work.
You think that's religious?
Jesus Saves.
koan;1400418 wrote: Hehe. That's just capitalism hard at work.
You think that's religious?
hahaha Koan...read more of the thread.
maybe then you will get it.
You think that's religious?
hahaha Koan...read more of the thread.
maybe then you will get it.
Jesus Saves.
It's all the same circular argument. People who think religion is better than science or politics and people who don't realize that science and politics all serve the same god as religion: making us feel less insignificant. And some say they don't fear insignificance but they are lying or self-unaware. Ernest Becker does a pretty good job of showing that all human behaviour is religious.... institutionalized or not. What we are fighting is a need to feel more right than anyone else.
Jesus has many names.
And there will always be slaves.
Jesus has many names.
And there will always be slaves.
Jesus Saves.
gmc;1400381 wrote:
religious bigotry is unreasoning and unyielding
Totally agree but Atheist sometimes are guilty of it too
religious bigotry is unreasoning and unyielding
Totally agree but Atheist sometimes are guilty of it too
"He has all the virtues I dislike and none of the vices I admire."
Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill
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jones jones
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LarsMac;1400316 wrote: Well, to bring something to a logical conclusion, one must employ logic.
By all means, Carry on.
I shall exhibit no further interest in your meanderings.
Ooooooooooooooooh! Meanderings ... meanderings, my royal American ass as Lola used to say. If what I post is:
"moving aimlessly and idly without fixed direction" then I don't know. Why opt out of engaging me in such a way Lars?
By all means, Carry on.
I shall exhibit no further interest in your meanderings.
Ooooooooooooooooh! Meanderings ... meanderings, my royal American ass as Lola used to say. If what I post is:
"moving aimlessly and idly without fixed direction" then I don't know. Why opt out of engaging me in such a way Lars?
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Jesus Saves.
jones jones;1400453 wrote: Ooooooooooooooooh! Meanderings ... meanderings, my royal American ass as Lola used to say. If what I post is:
"moving aimlessly and idly without fixed direction" then I don't know. Why opt out of engaging me in such a way Lars?
Well, Jonesy, I did try to engage you in conversation, but you simply blew me off because you didn't wish to hurt my feelings.
So very thoughtful of you, old chap, but then what was the point of even starting the conversation in the first place?
You like to wander about the forum (apparently quite aimlessly, IMHO) and open threads to post you opinion here, but you have little interest in explaining your position, and seem to have even less interest in the opinions of others. You made it pretty clear you did not wish to actually discuss the subject.
So why should I find anything else you have to say of interest?
"moving aimlessly and idly without fixed direction" then I don't know. Why opt out of engaging me in such a way Lars?
Well, Jonesy, I did try to engage you in conversation, but you simply blew me off because you didn't wish to hurt my feelings.
So very thoughtful of you, old chap, but then what was the point of even starting the conversation in the first place?
You like to wander about the forum (apparently quite aimlessly, IMHO) and open threads to post you opinion here, but you have little interest in explaining your position, and seem to have even less interest in the opinions of others. You made it pretty clear you did not wish to actually discuss the subject.
So why should I find anything else you have to say of interest?
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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jones jones
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Jesus Saves.
LarsMac;1400493 wrote: Well, Jonesy, I did try to engage you in conversation, but you simply blew me off because you didn't wish to hurt my feelings.
So very thoughtful of you, old chap, but then what was the point of even starting the conversation in the first place?
You like to wander about the forum (apparently quite aimlessly, IMHO) and open threads to post you opinion here, but you have little interest in explaining your position, and seem to have even less interest in the opinions of others. You made it pretty clear you did not wish to actually discuss the subject.
So why should I find anything else you have to say of interest?
You right of course. My problem is that I get bored so easily.
So very thoughtful of you, old chap, but then what was the point of even starting the conversation in the first place?
You like to wander about the forum (apparently quite aimlessly, IMHO) and open threads to post you opinion here, but you have little interest in explaining your position, and seem to have even less interest in the opinions of others. You made it pretty clear you did not wish to actually discuss the subject.
So why should I find anything else you have to say of interest?
You right of course. My problem is that I get bored so easily.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Jesus Saves.
jones jones;1400495 wrote: You right of course. My problem is that I get bored so easily.
Yeah, it's called ADD, I think.
I had that issue while growing up, too.
Yeah, it's called ADD, I think.
I had that issue while growing up, too.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
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jones jones
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Jesus Saves.
LarsMac;1400500 wrote: Yeah, it's called ADD, I think.
I had that issue while growing up, too.
Wow! You are rather unrelenting aren't you? I think that if I am still here tomorrow I will avoid any further interaction with you.
I had that issue while growing up, too.
Wow! You are rather unrelenting aren't you? I think that if I am still here tomorrow I will avoid any further interaction with you.
"…I hate how I don’t feel real enough unless people are watching." — Chuck Palahniuk, Invisible Monsters
Jesus Saves.
Oops. Sorry. I didn't mean that as it seems you have taken it.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Jesus Saves.
LarsMac;1400387 wrote: Sure. I am aware of the history. Actually read a lot more than the Bible.
I used to ask born again Christians by asking how they stood on issues like transubstantiation and whether they believed in the holy trinity but most of them don't know what I was on about and besides I was being a bit of a smart arse and people got annoyed. Who has the "right" christian belief is not a debate I care for but as an atheist i find rather than talking objectively you end up being on the receiving end of a diatribe about how all these other churches are not really christian. as in for example
So, other than Bruv's remark, what does any of that have to do with Jesus?
Although I realise i was probably being a bit uncharitable. As an atheist I can tolerate anyone's belief so long as they are prepared to accept mine and just as christians like to proselytise and indeed are told to do so they can hardly object It's not disrespect to want to discuss something with people you fundamentally disagree with, blind obedience to a religious faith is dangerous just as blind following of a politcal doctrine is.
posted by koan
Hehe. That's just capitalism hard at work.
You think that's religious?
Actually slavery is an institution that prevents capitalism working. At it's heart caoitalism needs a well paid workforce as a customer base otherwise it will not work. See the American economy in the 21st century - The end of capitalism as workers are forced in to a low wage economy cause or effect. A hundred years from now that will be someone's phd thesis. Probably written by a chinese person
I used to ask born again Christians by asking how they stood on issues like transubstantiation and whether they believed in the holy trinity but most of them don't know what I was on about and besides I was being a bit of a smart arse and people got annoyed. Who has the "right" christian belief is not a debate I care for but as an atheist i find rather than talking objectively you end up being on the receiving end of a diatribe about how all these other churches are not really christian. as in for example
So, other than Bruv's remark, what does any of that have to do with Jesus?
Although I realise i was probably being a bit uncharitable. As an atheist I can tolerate anyone's belief so long as they are prepared to accept mine and just as christians like to proselytise and indeed are told to do so they can hardly object It's not disrespect to want to discuss something with people you fundamentally disagree with, blind obedience to a religious faith is dangerous just as blind following of a politcal doctrine is.
posted by koan
Hehe. That's just capitalism hard at work.
You think that's religious?
Actually slavery is an institution that prevents capitalism working. At it's heart caoitalism needs a well paid workforce as a customer base otherwise it will not work. See the American economy in the 21st century - The end of capitalism as workers are forced in to a low wage economy cause or effect. A hundred years from now that will be someone's phd thesis. Probably written by a chinese person
Jesus Saves.
Why do I continually want to reply "but Rooney scores from the rebound"?
Jesus Saves.
Bryn Mawr;1400565 wrote: Why do I continually want to reply "but Rooney scores from the rebound"?
Or Satan invests ?
Or Satan invests ?
I thought I knew more than this until I opened my mouth
Jesus Saves.
Bruv;1400567 wrote: Or Satan invests ?
I didn't realise he read the parables
I didn't realise he read the parables
Jesus Saves.
gmc;1400512 wrote: I used to ask born again Christians by asking how they stood on issues like transubstantiation and whether they believed in the holy trinity but most of them don't know what I was on about and besides I was being a bit of a smart arse and people got annoyed. Who has the "right" christian belief is not a debate I care for but as an atheist i find rather than talking objectively you end up being on the receiving end of a diatribe about how all these other churches are not really christian. as in for example...
So, other than Bruv's remark, what does any of that have to do with Jesus?
Although I realise i was probably being a bit uncharitable. As an atheist I can tolerate anyone's belief so long as they are prepared to accept mine and just as christians like to proselytise and indeed are told to do so they can hardly object It's not disrespect to want to discuss something with people you fundamentally disagree with, blind obedience to a religious faith is dangerous just as blind following of a politcal doctrine is.
One problem I run into with Atheists is the notion Since I am a believer, I am obviously blindly following the Church Leadership, who has robbed me of any ability to reason.
Many younger folks (post Cold War, I think.) seem to have never grown up with a sense of history. It's not just the new "Christians". Not sure if they just stopped teaching any kind of history in school, or what. Having attended a number of different churches over the years, I found that most of the pastoral staff are not really getting into the historical aspects of the religion, either. This is painfully true among the Pentecostal and Evangelical sects.
The same can be said for much of the political realm, as well. Without knowing where we came from, they show that they have no idea where they are going, or why.
something I heard once:
"Where are we going? And what's with that handbasket?"
gmc;1400512 wrote:
posted by koan
Hehe. That's just capitalism hard at work.
You think that's religious?
Actually slavery is an institution that prevents capitalism working. At it's heart caoitalism needs a well paid workforce as a customer base otherwise it will not work. See the American economy in the 21st century - The end of capitalism as workers are forced in to a low wage economy cause or effect. A hundred years from now that will be someone's phd thesis. Probably written by a chinese person
Au contraire,
The institution of slavery is alive and well, and there are many capitalists enjoying the fruits of others' labor.
And no, I am not speaking metaphorically.
So, other than Bruv's remark, what does any of that have to do with Jesus?
Although I realise i was probably being a bit uncharitable. As an atheist I can tolerate anyone's belief so long as they are prepared to accept mine and just as christians like to proselytise and indeed are told to do so they can hardly object It's not disrespect to want to discuss something with people you fundamentally disagree with, blind obedience to a religious faith is dangerous just as blind following of a politcal doctrine is.
One problem I run into with Atheists is the notion Since I am a believer, I am obviously blindly following the Church Leadership, who has robbed me of any ability to reason.
Many younger folks (post Cold War, I think.) seem to have never grown up with a sense of history. It's not just the new "Christians". Not sure if they just stopped teaching any kind of history in school, or what. Having attended a number of different churches over the years, I found that most of the pastoral staff are not really getting into the historical aspects of the religion, either. This is painfully true among the Pentecostal and Evangelical sects.
The same can be said for much of the political realm, as well. Without knowing where we came from, they show that they have no idea where they are going, or why.
something I heard once:
"Where are we going? And what's with that handbasket?"
gmc;1400512 wrote:
posted by koan
Hehe. That's just capitalism hard at work.
You think that's religious?
Actually slavery is an institution that prevents capitalism working. At it's heart caoitalism needs a well paid workforce as a customer base otherwise it will not work. See the American economy in the 21st century - The end of capitalism as workers are forced in to a low wage economy cause or effect. A hundred years from now that will be someone's phd thesis. Probably written by a chinese person
Au contraire,
The institution of slavery is alive and well, and there are many capitalists enjoying the fruits of others' labor.
And no, I am not speaking metaphorically.
The home of the soul is the Open Road.
- DH Lawrence
- DH Lawrence
Jesus Saves.
posted by larsmac
One problem I run into with Atheists is the notion Since I am a believer, I am obviously blindly following the Church Leadership, who has robbed me of any ability to reason.
Very true, the question is my way of sussing out what I am dealing with.
posted by larsmac
Au contraire,
The institution of slavery is alive and well, and there are many capitalists enjoying the fruits of others' labor.
And no, I am not speaking metaphorically.
Sadly I am perfectly well aware that you are not speaking metaphorically. You get crooked capitalists as well as honest ones. Capitalism is one of many economic theories that many seem to think is a gospel and love to quote the bits that suit their particular prejudices. Monetarism is an abomination. :sneaky:
One problem I run into with Atheists is the notion Since I am a believer, I am obviously blindly following the Church Leadership, who has robbed me of any ability to reason.
Very true, the question is my way of sussing out what I am dealing with.
posted by larsmac
Au contraire,
The institution of slavery is alive and well, and there are many capitalists enjoying the fruits of others' labor.
And no, I am not speaking metaphorically.
Sadly I am perfectly well aware that you are not speaking metaphorically. You get crooked capitalists as well as honest ones. Capitalism is one of many economic theories that many seem to think is a gospel and love to quote the bits that suit their particular prejudices. Monetarism is an abomination. :sneaky:
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Its a narrow way
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Jesus Saves.
I believe there is A God , I also believe Christianity to be the true faith BUT???
True christianity is almost never found by the masses of people , The earth is full of counterfiet faiths and even 99.9 percent of christianity is Satanic counterfiet Faiths . Stumbling blocks some so stupid and obvious fake to drive some men to be athiest too . Satan was perfect in wisdom or smarter then most or even all men . Satan has many followers or fellow spirit beings with a goal nothing short of decieving the whole earth. Satan is very good at this and does indeed succeed to decieve 99.9 percent of all men .
The bible predicts this ,in Rev 17 is a warning in black letters about Mystery Babalon the Great the mother of harlots the mother of abominations of the earth . Its very important that one think this out to what its talking about .
Mystery babalon the great or confusion the great = modern Christianity . the mother = The catholic church in Rome (the seven hills) the daughters are almost all other christian churches . From the baptist to the JWs all are Satanic inspired stumbling blocks .
The real men of God have been mostly labeled as marters , and have been put the death much through the centuries (I saw a Woman Drunken with the blood of the Saints) If you was to study like foxes book of marters you probly would see real men of God being put to death .
The catholic church many believe was founded by Simon Magnus and not Peter . It never had God s Spirit from day one ! Its full of evil spirits . WHO dont know child molesting priest are much more rampet in numbers then in general populations?? Its because the Spirit in them is not Holy! Never Was .
Christian churches almost all dont know the real gospel of Christ , Christ taught about a coming Kingdom on earth where his followers would be the kings and preist (rev 5 verses 9-10) most modern churches hide this instead of spread the good news .
The bible predicts all this its why I am not a Athiest !
True christianity is almost never found by the masses of people , The earth is full of counterfiet faiths and even 99.9 percent of christianity is Satanic counterfiet Faiths . Stumbling blocks some so stupid and obvious fake to drive some men to be athiest too . Satan was perfect in wisdom or smarter then most or even all men . Satan has many followers or fellow spirit beings with a goal nothing short of decieving the whole earth. Satan is very good at this and does indeed succeed to decieve 99.9 percent of all men .
The bible predicts this ,in Rev 17 is a warning in black letters about Mystery Babalon the Great the mother of harlots the mother of abominations of the earth . Its very important that one think this out to what its talking about .
Mystery babalon the great or confusion the great = modern Christianity . the mother = The catholic church in Rome (the seven hills) the daughters are almost all other christian churches . From the baptist to the JWs all are Satanic inspired stumbling blocks .
The real men of God have been mostly labeled as marters , and have been put the death much through the centuries (I saw a Woman Drunken with the blood of the Saints) If you was to study like foxes book of marters you probly would see real men of God being put to death .
The catholic church many believe was founded by Simon Magnus and not Peter . It never had God s Spirit from day one ! Its full of evil spirits . WHO dont know child molesting priest are much more rampet in numbers then in general populations?? Its because the Spirit in them is not Holy! Never Was .
Christian churches almost all dont know the real gospel of Christ , Christ taught about a coming Kingdom on earth where his followers would be the kings and preist (rev 5 verses 9-10) most modern churches hide this instead of spread the good news .
The bible predicts all this its why I am not a Athiest !
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Its a narrow way
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The abominations the Catholic church is guilty of making all nations drunk with? and even the Kings of the earth fornicate with her , and the merchants of the earth wax rich of her delacacies ??
The arc of the Covenant was very important ,A normal man could not even put his hand on it without being struck dead . Isreal carried it before them . In Gods temple it was put on a table in the middle as a center of importance . What was it it? All was in it was the 2 tablets God himself wrote on with his own finger , 10 commandments . They was the center of a covenant with God . If he was to bless you or hear your prayer you had to repent of breaking these commands and also confess daily to Jesus your transgressions . The catholic church in its evil changed 2 commands of God almighty . The dropped the second command , Ignore the 4th , and split the 10th into 2 to hide dropping the second . The bible says if SATAN GETS YOU ON ONE YOU ARE GUILTY OF BREAKING ALL .
The the old Whore changed pagan festavals to christian festavals And killed men that refused to accept it . Her daughters follow her and accept these fake holy days and sabbaths . The merchants of the earth use them to get rich off ALL FORTOOLD BY OUR BIBLES . Hosea in 4th chapter reveals this spirit of whoreing will make us forget Gods laws and bring about our distruction . We are made SICK from this Mother of all whore churches.
The arc of the Covenant was very important ,A normal man could not even put his hand on it without being struck dead . Isreal carried it before them . In Gods temple it was put on a table in the middle as a center of importance . What was it it? All was in it was the 2 tablets God himself wrote on with his own finger , 10 commandments . They was the center of a covenant with God . If he was to bless you or hear your prayer you had to repent of breaking these commands and also confess daily to Jesus your transgressions . The catholic church in its evil changed 2 commands of God almighty . The dropped the second command , Ignore the 4th , and split the 10th into 2 to hide dropping the second . The bible says if SATAN GETS YOU ON ONE YOU ARE GUILTY OF BREAKING ALL .
The the old Whore changed pagan festavals to christian festavals And killed men that refused to accept it . Her daughters follow her and accept these fake holy days and sabbaths . The merchants of the earth use them to get rich off ALL FORTOOLD BY OUR BIBLES . Hosea in 4th chapter reveals this spirit of whoreing will make us forget Gods laws and bring about our distruction . We are made SICK from this Mother of all whore churches.
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Jesus Saves.
The protesting daughters (protestants) do relize at times their mother can not be trusted , most of them put back the second command of God and restore the 10th command as one instead of 2 commands. But almost all these daughters will follow their mother to breaking the 4th command of God even though moma church will even admit she did it. They will also follow the mother Whore church to accepting heathen or pagan rituals and lieing to their members that they are christian . Christmas (forbid in Jerm 10) is a lie ,not Christ birth most likely the saturnilia .Easter is a Lie nothing to do with death and resurection of Christ it is a festaval for Ishtar Goddess of sex and fertility (bunny rabbits ,eggs symbols of sex and fertility) Halloween ? the second most important day to Satanist ???
All these churches that follow mother to break the 4th command teach men not to repent .
the bible strongly warns not to follow traditions of men , or to worship God like other nations chose to worship their Gods , but most our Churches teach their millions of followers to disobey God . Is like 1000 flavours of christianity its why its fortold in Scriptures as Babalon (confusion the great) . Satan being inteligent built a haystack around the needle !! Can you find the needle in this mess of confussion? yes . Here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus !!!! Watch Jesus !!!! Did Jesus go to the synigog on the Sabbath or Sunday? well says Sabbath so there you just cut 90% of christianity out as potential followers of Jesus . All Sunday keeping churches are following the Mother whore church and not Jesus Christ like they claim they are. The bible says no lie is from the truth . Is Christmas a lie ? YES there again you know all christmas keeping churches are not from God .
Jesus said hes the same yesterday , today and forever . These evil harlot churches try to sell a changeing Jesus . Its very easy to find the needle in the haystack as the Needle looks different . It is a Narrow way and few their be that find it , only because they listen to men and not the clues of your bible. You can only chose to Follow God or not , The Way to follow God was here and walked as a man so that you could follow his steps. NO HE NEVER LOOKED LIKE MOST MODERN CHRISTIANS
All these churches that follow mother to break the 4th command teach men not to repent .
the bible strongly warns not to follow traditions of men , or to worship God like other nations chose to worship their Gods , but most our Churches teach their millions of followers to disobey God . Is like 1000 flavours of christianity its why its fortold in Scriptures as Babalon (confusion the great) . Satan being inteligent built a haystack around the needle !! Can you find the needle in this mess of confussion? yes . Here are they that keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus !!!! Watch Jesus !!!! Did Jesus go to the synigog on the Sabbath or Sunday? well says Sabbath so there you just cut 90% of christianity out as potential followers of Jesus . All Sunday keeping churches are following the Mother whore church and not Jesus Christ like they claim they are. The bible says no lie is from the truth . Is Christmas a lie ? YES there again you know all christmas keeping churches are not from God .
Jesus said hes the same yesterday , today and forever . These evil harlot churches try to sell a changeing Jesus . Its very easy to find the needle in the haystack as the Needle looks different . It is a Narrow way and few their be that find it , only because they listen to men and not the clues of your bible. You can only chose to Follow God or not , The Way to follow God was here and walked as a man so that you could follow his steps. NO HE NEVER LOOKED LIKE MOST MODERN CHRISTIANS