My Father called

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:08 am

It's been years. I'm not even sure how many. The phone rang and the voice on the other end took awhile for me to recognize.

"I hope I didn't get you out of bed." He had to repeat this while I moved into a quieter room & figure out who this was.

"Well Hey, Daddy!"

"I was just wondering if you've given any thought to everlasting life." Just like that. No "how are you?" No small talk. Straight in. I'm thinking the man's in his mid-80's. He must've found out he's dieing.

I asked him what spurred this call, but he wouldn't be distracted. Kept asking if I knew what it meant to be saved, how to be saved, if I was aware that most people aren't doing it right ... I was getting angry.

"Look. We haven't talked in years. This is only the second time in my entire life that you've called me (I had always initiated the calls before I quit). Something prompted you to call me. What was it?

"Well, my wife remembered that your wife has her family in Japan, and they had that there earthquake, and she was wondering if they were all alright over there."

I understand that this is miles from "I've missed you and I'm concerned about you and your family" but it's as close as this man will ever come to that, and I decided to pretend that's what he meant.

"Well, tell her thanks for her concern. That's really sweet of her. [My beloved]'s family is mostly in Okinawa & hardly had any effects at all, but her sister lives nearer to Tokyo. They were lucky & didn't have any damage at all."

He finally yielded. He asked how I was doing and what I was doing for work. We then got into a conversation about tectonic plates. He said he'd heard that the fault line that caused that earthquake was the same line that is the San Andreas fault in California. I told him I wasn't sure but it was certainly possible. He said that scientists predict that a major earthquake is due along the San Andreas fault and in Los Angeles. I said I'd heard the same thing.

"Y'know, there's a prophet that has prophesied that there will be an earthquake so great that Los Angeles will fall into the ocean."

I allowed him to carry the conversation back to salvation, everlasting life, and how the Catholic Church was the Great Whore and all the Protestant denominations were her harlots, and that any baptism they perform is not valid.

Just for fun I pointed out that King James was a Protestant & that the Bible he (my father) read every day must necessarily be flawed, but he was on a roll & didn't even acknowledge I'd spoken.

When he finally ran out of steam, I told him to give his wife a hug from both of us, and that I'd talk to him again.

.......... so he opened the door. I spose I'll pick up the thread and continue a cordial relationship.

YZGI · Post by **YZGI** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:47 am

Good for you Acc. At least its a start. Religion may be the only thing your father can chat about or cares to talk about at this time in his life. It wont hurt to kick it around with him but he might pull back again if you completely discount his beliefs. JMO.

ButterflyPrincess · Post by **ButterflyPrincess** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 6:57 am

I think it's great he called you.. & I think it's even more great that you're willing to try to rebuild a relationship with your father.

Good Luck & I hope things go well.

I am happy to hear that your wifes family is ok in Japan.

theia · Post by **theia** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:09 am

Accountable;1357160 wrote: It's been years. I'm not even sure how many. The phone rang and the voice on the other end took awhile for me to recognize.

"I hope I didn't get you out of bed." He had to repeat this while I moved into a quieter room & figure out who this was.

"Well Hey, Daddy!"

"I was just wondering if you've given any thought to everlasting life." Just like that. No "how are you?" No small talk. Straight in. I'm thinking the man's in his mid-80's. He must've found out he's dieing.

I asked him what spurred this call, but he wouldn't be distracted. Kept asking if I knew what it meant to be saved, how to be saved, if I was aware that most people aren't doing it right ... I was getting angry.

"Look. We haven't talked in years. This is only the second time in my entire life that you've called me (I had always initiated the calls before I quit). Something prompted you to call me. What was it?

"Well, my wife remembered that your wife has her family in Japan, and they had that there earthquake, and she was wondering if they were all alright over there."

I understand that this is miles from "I've missed you and I'm concerned about you and your family" but it's as close as this man will ever come to that, and I decided to pretend that's what he meant."Well, tell her thanks for her concern. That's really sweet of her. [My beloved]'s family is mostly in Okinawa & hardly had any effects at all, but her sister lives nearer to Tokyo. They were lucky & didn't have any damage at all."

He finally yielded. He asked how I was doing and what I was doing for work. We then got into a conversation about tectonic plates. He said he'd heard that the fault line that caused that earthquake was the same line that is the San Andreas fault in California. I told him I wasn't sure but it was certainly possible. He said that scientists predict that a major earthquake is due along the San Andreas fault and in Los Angeles. I said I'd heard the same thing.

"Y'know, there's a prophet that has prophesied that there will be an earthquake so great that Los Angeles will fall into the ocean."

I allowed him to carry the conversation back to salvation, everlasting life, and how the Catholic Church was the Great Whore and all the Protestant denominations were her harlots, and that any baptism they perform is not valid.

Just for fun I pointed out that King James was a Protestant & that the Bible he (my father) read every day must necessarily be flawed, but he was on a roll & didn't even acknowledge I'd spoken.

When he finally ran out of steam, I told him to give his wife a hug from both of us, and that I'd talk to him again.

.......... so he opened the door. I spose I'll pick up the thread and continue a cordial relationship.

I don't think you need to pretend, Acc

:-4

chonsigirl · Post by **chonsigirl** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 1:05 pm

You handled it well-he may be ill and dying, and his thoughts were to see you again one day. He might not be able to say it, but it could be what he meant.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:16 pm

YZGI;1357163 wrote: Good for you Acc. At least its a start. Religion may be the only thing your father can chat about or cares to talk about at this time in his life. It wont hurt to kick it around with him but he might pull back again if you completely discount his beliefs. JMO.
I think you're probably right. I'm thinking about writing a letter ... maybe treat it like a philosophy thread. We can do a good back and forth about his beliefs. There are quite a few ideas that we share, some so controversial that I'm not comfortable airing them in public. We use these as a jumping-off point & it should be fun.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:23 pm

ButterflyPrincess;1357164 wrote: I think it's great he called you.. & I think it's even more great that you're willing to try to rebuild a relationship with your father.

Good Luck & I hope things go well.

I am happy to hear that your wifes family is ok in Japan. :)Thank you.

chonsigirl;1357187 wrote: [QUOTE=theia;1357181]I don't think you need to pretend, Acc

:-4You handled it well-he may be ill and dying, and his thoughts were to see you again one day. He might not be able to say it, but it could be what he meant.[/QUOTE]I'm not used to communicating that way. I see TV shows where the grown kids read the code in the old man's grumblings or seemingly random thoughts. Living in a children's home gave me opportunity to go through group therapy and learn to communicate directly, assertively, and clearly. I'm pretty skilled at telling people what they don't necessarily want to hear in such a way that they accept it without anger. I'm not skilled at all in speaking code. This is going to be a challenge.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:25 pm

you really were wonderful in the way you spoke to your dad, I think he's reaching out.......

CARLA · Post by **CARLA** » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:06 pm

You did handle it very well ACC he is reaching out and yes he speaks in code but his generation weren't taught the art of communication so their skills are what they learned to survive. I go though the same thing with my mother bless her 83 year old self.

You just have to read between the lines most of the time.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:21 pm

I wish you well with the attempt and admire you for making it but it sounds like your father has a long, long way to go.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 9:37 pm

I like the way you write, as if your thoughts are randomly tumbling out. My thought is that if you are interested and your heart is in it then jump in.

koan · Post by **koan** » Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:13 pm

Well done.

I could guess at what else was going on behind the words, offer an anecdote that wouldn't be helpful, or post some clichéd puke inducing quotation that someone semi famous once said. Ultimately, I think you handled it much better than I would have.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Sun May 22, 2011 8:35 pm

Stilling flapping your gums with dad?

Patsy Warnick · Post by **Patsy Warnick** » Sun May 22, 2011 9:21 pm

Acct. don't over analyze - this is a postive. It's a Olive Branch sort of speak - and it's up to you and you alone to continue the communications.

You decide what you can live with.

I've had my own distances with my parents - MY Mom would only call me when she was drunk @ 2 :00 A.M. - and I had to get up in 3 hrs. for work - but, I would listen & talk & roll my eyes etc. She died in 1996.

I miss her calls, since it was all I had of her.

Good Luck

Patsy

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon May 23, 2011 3:47 am

Nomad;1360057 wrote: Stilling flapping your gums with dad?

Nope. Apparently I am my father's son. Gotta get off my butt on this. Thanks B.

Bruv · Post by **Bruv** » Mon May 23, 2011 4:04 am

Accountable;1360076 wrote: Nope. Apparently I am my father's son. Gotta get off my butt on this. Thanks B.

And that realisation can be frightening......can't it ?

cars · Post by **cars** » Mon May 23, 2011 11:31 am

I have a relative that sort of did the same thing, we had a nasty blowup, & didn't speak for years. One day out of the blue that relative called me, and asked for my forgivness, so if I forgave them they could be at peace with themselves. Come to find out that relative became a "reborn christian", and one of the saving graces for them was to make amends with all they offended and ask for their forgivness. Maybe he's reborn?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon May 23, 2011 4:19 pm

Bruv;1360079 wrote: And that realisation can be frightening......can't it ?
LOL It can, but in this case it's kind of a family tradition.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon May 23, 2011 4:23 pm

cars;1360114 wrote: I have a relative that sort of did the same thing, we had a nasty blowup, & didn't speak for years. One day out of the blue that relative called me, and asked for my forgivness, so if I forgave them they could be at peace with themselves. Come to find out that relative became a "reborn christian", and one of the saving graces for them was to make amends with all they offended and ask for their forgivness. Maybe he's reborn?His whole reason to call me was based on his religion. He's been an extreme fundamental Christian for close to 40 years now. He and my mom fighting over where we would go to church is part of what tore the family apart. No, I don't think he wanted to make any amends. I think he wanted to save my soul ... and say hi.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Mon May 23, 2011 7:35 pm

Accountable;1360151 wrote: LOL It can, but in this case it's kind of a family tradition.

You make me feel less alone.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Mon May 23, 2011 8:45 pm

Accountable;1360153 wrote: His whole reason to call me was based on his religion. He's been an extreme fundamental Christian for close to 40 years now. He and my mom fighting over where we would go to church is part of what tore the family apart. No, I don't think he wanted to make any amends. I think he wanted to save my soul ... and say hi.

I'm sorry, some family members are like this.

what a shame they cannot communicate as life is just to short.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:05 pm

lol lol like father like son. It's funny but it's sad ......in that whole conversation in your OP....I picked up one thing ...he mentioned the quake in japan and an impending quake in your area........That speaks volumes to me . some guys only want to speak about football, he uses his religion and what you're going to do is send him a letter doing exactly the same thing .

Beyond saving your soul .........he's worried about you . but hey don't worry about it ..ignore it and play the same game as he does ....it's good to be the son isn't it.

He's found his excuse in life ....and youv'e found yours. Enjoy your non communication.

Sorry if that sounds harch acc....but he says something and you reject it....and the game goes on.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:22 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1361607 wrote: lol lol like father like son. It's funny but it's sad ......in that whole conversation in your OP....I picked up one thing ...he mentioned the quake in japan and an impending quake in your area........That speaks volumes to me . some guys only want to speak about football, he uses his religion and what you're going to do is send him a letter doing exactly the same thing .

Beyond saving your soul .........he's worried about you . but hey don't worry about it ..ignore it and play the same game as he does ....it's good to be the son isn't it.

He's found his excuse in life ....and youv'e found yours. Enjoy your non communication.

Sorry if that sounds harch acc....but he says something and you reject it....and the game goes on.
I don't follow ... and I really want to. It seems important. Can you flesh it out for me, please?

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:25 pm

what bit didn't you understand? It wasn't that cryptic.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:29 pm

fuzzywuzzy;1361611 wrote: what bit didn't you understand?The bolded parts. Please, if you want to play games we can move on, but something resonated in your post and I can't grasp why. I would appreciate it if you would explain.

fuzzywuzzy;1361607 wrote: lol lol like father like son. It's funny but it's sad ......in that whole conversation in your OP....I picked up one thing ...he mentioned the quake in japan and an impending quake in your area........That speaks volumes to me . some guys only want to speak about football, he uses his religion and what you're going to do is send him a letter doing exactly the same thing .

Beyond saving your soul .........he's worried about you . but hey don't worry about it ..ignore it and play the same game as he does ....it's good to be the son isn't it.

He's found his excuse in life ....and youv'e found yours. Enjoy your non communication.

Sorry if that sounds harch acc....but he says something and you reject it....and the game goes on.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:07 pm

One thing I never do when it comes to giving advice or pulling some one up ..which I guess I've done both here ..is play games ..I never do that .

It interests me the bit's you didn't bold . Hmmm okay your father protects himself with his religion ...he protects himself from rejection and the worlds woes with his religion....that's why he goes on about it . In his own way he wants you to see the light so you can be protected just like it's protected him. It's how he can look after his son. But we both know it's just denial and fear and escape from the world around him . he sees the world as a fearful place and want's his son to escape it as well. It's no different to a man who pumps the stock market and money or trade unionism into his children, it's the fear of the world and a fear that the world may come to an end and that's how some men feel they can protect their children from it .....your dad is no different......but what usually happens to those children and the relationships towards their dads? Rejection . One or the other rejects the other and all relations are lost....

But the olive branch has been extended not as a serman but out of that very fear your father has for you ...your dad just doesn't know how to say it in the words/ vocabulary you want to hear ....It's up to you though to HEAR it . You said he's in his eighties...his fear now (the original fear I just spoke of ) maybe all comsuming in this stage of his life. he's trying to tell you something and you just arent hearing it. So you'll play the game you've always played with him and reject all he is saying....But you know what ....We've both been on this forum for a very long time now and I know you're better than that. You're a teacher and you must have it down pat now, on how to change a subject when a kid just keeps going on and on about this and that ....you know how to direct a conversation by now surely . And you can do it with your father so you can hear what he's saying to you .

Basically his escape and your rejection of his beliefs are actaully keeping you two apart and the baggage must be so great by now.....Have you ever said this to him? straight out? Ever asked him to tell you a funny story about his child hood? Ever asked him about how he felt on your mothers and his wedding day? Ask him what kind of shorts he wore as a boy, who were his friends . If you get through to his fear ...you'll have a relationship with your father. and you'll find the religious speak will die off a bit.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:03 am

Thank you! That's what I asked for. I read this last night and resisted the urge to reply immediately. I slept on it ... about 30 minutes ... and it came to me. I had walked away out of frustration because I couldn't have the relationship I wanted, and decided he didn't deserve it anyway. I didn't respond to his gestures for basically the same reason - he didn't deserve a relationship with me, not after abandoning his responsibilities as a father. I deserved better ... but I didn't feel any better. I realized that that was the thing that was missing. I didn't feel better pursuing a relationship or rejecting it. It simply isn't in my nature to punish, and that's what I had been doing - punishing him, whether he was aware of it or not.

So if the answer is neither in creating a relationship that can't exist nor in punishing my father for not being a dad, then perhaps it's in relaxing and allowing whatever is there to exist.

In this new light, which I owe to you, Fuzz, I re-read your post.

fuzzywuzzy;1361615 wrote: One thing I never do when it comes to giving advice or pulling some one up ..which I guess I've done both here ..is play games ..I never do that .

It interests me the bit's you didn't bold . Hmmm okay your father protects himself with his religion ...he protects himself from rejection and the worlds woes with his religion....that's why he goes on about it . In his own way he wants you to see the light so you can be protected just like it's protected him. It's how he can look after his son. But we both know it's just denial and fear and escape from the world around him . he sees the world as a fearful place and want's his son to escape it as well. It's no different to a man who pumps the stock market and money or trade unionism into his children, it's the fear of the world and a fear that the world may come to an end and that's how some men feel they can protect their children from it .....your dad is no different......but what usually happens to those children and the relationships towards their dads? Rejection . One or the other rejects the other and all relations are lost....Makes sense.

fuzzywuzzy wrote: But the olive branch has been extended not as a serman but out of that very fear your father has for you ...your dad just doesn't know how to say it in the words/ vocabulary you want to hear ....It's up to you though to HEAR it . You said he's in his eighties...his fear now (the original fear I just spoke of ) maybe all comsuming in this stage of his life. he's trying to tell you something and you just arent hearing it. So you'll play the game you've always played with him and reject all he is saying.It's true that I don't listen to him because I'm constantly thinking of the ulterior motives that he might have, or silently screaming at him "Why now?? Why not decades ago when I needed you?" So whatever message he might be trying to send never makes it through.

fuzzywuzzy wrote: ...But you know what ....We've both been on this forum for a very long time now and I know you're better than that. You're a teacher and you must have it down pat now, on how to change a subject when a kid just keeps going on and on about this and that ....you know how to direct a conversation by now surely . And you can do it with your father so you can hear what he's saying to you . I can do that face-to-face, that's true, with a student who looks at me as an authority figure. I'm not so confident it would work in this case, over the phone or in letters, but it's worth a shot.

fuzzywuzzy wrote: Basically his escape and your rejection of his beliefs are actaully keeping you two apart and the baggage must be so great by now.....Have you ever said this to him? straight out? Ever asked him to tell you a funny story about his child hood? Ever asked him about how he felt on your mothers and his wedding day? Ask him what kind of shorts he wore as a boy, who were his friends.No, I've never done that. At best, we have a little clumsy small talk then gratefully allow his wife to overwhelm the conversation. When I do ask about the past, it's always trying to get some kind of satisfactory information about why they divorced, why he left, or why he allowed me to live in the foster care system (talk about rejection!). I'm never successful & always end up more frustrated than before. I'm pretty sure I know the answers but I want to hear him admit it (punishment). I'll put that aside and try your suggestion.

fuzzywuzzy wrote: If you get through to his fear ...you'll have a relationship with your father. and you'll find the religious speak will die off a bit.You're probably right. It makes sense.

Thanks.

fuzzywuzzy · Post by **fuzzywuzzy** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:30 pm

accountable I luv ya mate . May I make a suggestion though? (not knowing any of your background before this)

Asking about someones divorce and expecting answers is not a 'right' ...that's between your mum and him ...It's nobodys business but there's. But your foster care stint? You have absolutely every 'right' to know about that because it directly involved you. Btu just because you have the right doesn't mean you'll get your answers . If worse comes to worse, at least you can stick it up everyone because you have a wife, a career, a roof over your head. I'm going to assume you have hot water on tap and electricity ....basically in the eyes of the world YOU are a SUCCESSFUL man. We all have our stories and our baggage and the questions as to "why did that happen? where was the love?" And it can drive you to despair and you end up carryng it around ....and then in a twisted kind of way we end up having the same fears our parents did . I don't think you want that

good luck mate you'll get it sorted