Just in case you thought Climate Change had gone away

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:21 am

If we do nothing, the planet's atmosphere will heat to a point that life becomes impossible for human and most other life. That is what the vast majority of scientists are saying, and they have a great deal of evidence to back it up.

If you think that's funny you are pretty sick.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 4:37 am

Clodhopper;1160320 wrote: If we do nothing, the planet's atmosphere will heat to a point that life becomes impossible for human and most other life. That is what the vast majority of scientists are saying, and they have a great deal of evidence to back it up.

Wrong. Humans have never been and never will be responsible for the fate of the entire planet. We merely share it with other lifeforms and we are absolutely along for the ride. Life is too diverse on planet Earth for your statement to ever come true. Human life can disappear tomorrow and the Earth would still be around. Other life-forms would still be around. We weren't the first creatures on the planet and we will never be the last. We have a responsibility to respect the Earth and in turn the Earth will respect us. If we attempt to have a negative impact on our planet than we will experience a negative impact in return. We could technically become extinct at any time. But thats something we all just have to accept.

I don't care what any scientists writes on paper. The fact is that we will never destroy all life on our planet because we would destroy ourselves long before that would ever come to pass.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 5:04 am

I said human and most other life.

Not all life.

Cave dwelling life, fumarole-based life, microbial life (a few examples - there may be others) will all continue in most possible scenarios and evolve to fill the empty planet.

But as a human, I do not face the prospect of our extinction, and the suffering that will involve, with equanimity. If we do nothing, that is what we face.

(Galbally, if I overstate because it's an issue that concerns me greatly, please step in and correct me)

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:27 am

why have they changed the term from 'global warming' to 'climate change'??

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 6:34 am

why have they changed the term from 'global warming' to 'climate change'??

I think it is because it's not just warming we have to worry about - also ocean acidification, sea level rise and more extreme weather, so global warming was an inadequate description. The term "climate change" covers these other effects as well as the straightforward rise in temperature.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:19 am

TruthBringer;1160296 wrote: Yes Gallbally many scientists out there are buying into the lie that we Human beings are soley responsible for the temperature increase of the planet that is causing alot of the climate change of today. This is a farce. A fraud. It is mainly the Sun. It will be proven. I believe this.

In the meantime, we will have to listen to the "world is flat" scientists of today who attack any other person who comes up with an alternative theory. The numbers of scientists who band together on a single issue mean nothing to me if there is no substance to what they say.

The evidence I posted was based upon science, not my opinion. If it had been my opinion, I would have written it. I didn't, so it's not based on my opinion. One was a theory from the army, the others were theories from scientists and researchers. Why is it so hard for you to accept that there are other "smart" people out there who have a different theory as to what is responsible for the current temperature increase of the planet? Why are you so defensive?

You at least appear to be basing your entire arguement on the quantity of scientists. Quantity means nothing to me. I am interested in quality.

If you understand the scientific method then you should know that no scientist worth his/her salt "buys" into anything without evidence, evidence, evidence. Again, and I repeat the overwhelming bulk of scientific evidence makes it clear that the climate is destabilizing, its because of CO2 levels, and that CO is there because we put it there.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:25 am

Clodhopper;1160334 wrote: I said

Not all life.

Cave dwelling life, fumarole-based life, microbial life (a few examples - there may be others) will all continue in most possible scenarios and evolve to fill the empty planet.

But as a human, I do not face the prospect of our extinction, and the suffering that will involve, with equanimity. If we do nothing, that is what we face.

(Galbally, if I overstate because it's an issue that concerns me greatly, please step in and correct me)

I have no idea what the conseuences of global mean temperature increases of 5-7degrees celcius would be, other than they would be massive and irreversible. What is certain is that human beings certainly wouldn't be able to maintain the population numbers that are currently alive, and runaway feedback mechanisms could well create conditions in which humans would go extinct, its not like it hasn't already happened in previous epochs.

If we go along the same course we are on, I would give us a century maybe, not more than two. In terms of serious impacts though, that would be much, much sooner, probably only a decade or two away now. And yes, I understand its upsetting, though its probably getting a bit pointless to worry about it, as to be perfectly honest, I think its probably already too late to do that much about whats coming down the line now, and its certainly almost a futile exercise trying to get people to understand the reality, that will only dawn on people as real events unfold, and finally the penny drops.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 8:40 am

Too late to save Africa, too late for Central America, Burma, India, Indonesia, Malaysia and the Middle East then.

Mass migrations of whole populations...

We have made Hell, and released it upon ourselves.

Think I'll go away and panic for a bit, if you don't mind.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:48 am

Clodhopper;1160467 wrote: Too late to save Africa, too late for Central America, Burma, India, Indonesia, Malaysia and the Middle East then.

Mass migrations of whole populations...

We have made Hell, and released it upon ourselves.

Think I'll go away and panic for a bit, if you don't mind.

Arah, no don't do that, just be nice to your wife or girlfriend and go and have some fun, go check out something nice like a beautiful place in the countryside or an art gallery or something like that. Look, none of us are getting out of here anyway. :-6

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:06 pm

Ah well, panic over. Certainly time to start living each day as if it's your last.

According to the Horizon programme I watched on I-player last night there's a reasonable prospect of commercial fusion by about 2035. That might help. And who knows? Maybe the breakthrough will come earlier.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:21 pm

Clodhopper;1160334 wrote:

If we do nothing, that is what we face.

Show me once in any post where I ever recommended doing nothing.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 7:25 pm

Clodhopper;1160526 wrote: Ah well, panic over. Certainly time to start living each day as if it's your last.

According to the Horizon programme I watched on I-player last night there's a reasonable prospect of commercial fusion by about 2035. That might help. And who knows? Maybe the breakthrough will come earlier.

Now this is what I have been trying to emphasize. The need for alternative energy sources. I strongly believe that they are the only real solutions to these problems. Aside from a Pole-Shift type catastrophic event that would cleanse the Earth and destroy all of our problems for us (which I do believe is going to happen), then unless we develop alternative energy sources (which our current corrupt government doesn't seem to want to take seriously), then your friend GalBally is right, the situation might be hopeless.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:45 am

Clodhopper;1160526 wrote: Ah well, panic over. Certainly time to start living each day as if it's your last.

According to the Horizon programme I watched on I-player last night there's a reasonable prospect of commercial fusion by about 2035. That might help. And who knows? Maybe the breakthrough will come earlier.

Yes, perhaps fusion powered spacecraft will be able to make it possible to colonize mars one day, that would be cool. Well, whatever will be, will be.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:25 am

Yes, perhaps fusion powered spacecraft will be able to make it possible to colonize mars one day, that would be cool.

...one day perhaps they will. Perhaps. But I hadn't realised fusion experiments had got to the point they have. I appreciate this isn't going to stop whatever is already going to happen, but it gives us some sort of chance to deal with the power problem. And maybe they'll get there quicker than they expect. You never know.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Sat Mar 21, 2009 5:31 am

Tb: Well, the need for alternate power sources is something we can agree on, then.

All costs money....

Anyway, before the world collapses, there's a big sporting afternoon in Britain to be settled. Cheerio.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:44 pm

The Great Global Warming Swindle:

www.TruthRing.org Â» The Great Global Warming Swindle

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:56 pm

TruthBringer;1161746 wrote: The Great Global Warming Swindle:

www.TruthRing.org Â» The Great Global Warming Swindle

If you're going to link to that then at least also provide a link to the Ofcom decision that fined Channel4 for deliberate misrepresentation of both the facts and the views of those interviewed within the program.

The only reason, Ofcom declared, that the fines were not higher, was that the subject was no longer controversial as Global Warming has been substantively proven and therefore the criteria used were less strict.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:34 pm

Bryn Mawr;1162160 wrote: If you're going to link to that then at least also provide a link to the Ofcom decision that fined Channel4 for deliberate misrepresentation of both the facts and the views of those interviewed within the program.

The only reason, Ofcom declared, that the fines were not higher, was that the subject was no longer controversial as Global Warming has been substantively proven and therefore the criteria used were less strict.

In America, people and tv channels get sued all the time. It means nothing.

All I can tell people is, watch the link, and then decide for yourselves. I believe that you will start to understand just how big of a joke this Man-Made Global Warming Scam has become.

And you will also learn alot about how the Sun has played a role in driving climate change since the days of the ancients. Thats right, because climate has changed many times before, and it had nothing to do with man back then. Just like it doesn't have too much to do with man today.

The whole "Carbon tax" idea goes out the window with this video.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:06 pm

TruthBringer;1162218 wrote: In America, people and tv channels get sued all the time. It means nothing.

All I can tell people is, watch the link, and then decide for yourselves. I believe that you will start to understand just how big of a joke this Man-Made Global Warming Scam has become.

And you will also learn alot about how the Sun has played a role in driving climate change since the days of the ancients. Thats right, because climate has changed many times before, and it had nothing to do with man back then. Just like it doesn't have too much to do with man today.

The whole "Carbon tax" idea goes out the window with this video.

Over here we have an independent tribunal to adjudicate on such cases and the report was damning - selective quoting of the Pro global warming experts to weaken their arguments or, in some cases, to make them appear anti, manipulation of data to distort the conclusions, misrepresentation of the credentials of the anti global warming witnesses to make them appear credible etc, etc.

And yes, I watched the whole thing through and found it to be junk - self contradictory and at odds with basic scientific principles. I have decided for myself and seen how big a joke climate change denial has become.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:50 pm

Bryn Mawr;1162242 wrote: Over here we have an independent tribunal to adjudicate on such cases and the report was damning - selective quoting of the Pro global warming experts to weaken their arguments or, in some cases, to make them appear anti, manipulation of data to distort the conclusions, misrepresentation of the credentials of the anti global warming witnesses to make them appear credible etc, etc.

And yes, I watched the whole thing through and found it to be junk - self contradictory and at odds with basic scientific principles. I have decided for myself and seen how big a joke climate change denial has become.

What I'm waiting for is for some of these man-made global warming "the debate is over" people to start being sued for their dishonesty and manipulation of the media to not question their motives and their theories.

I mean you're talking to the wrong guy here. If you want me to get excited about someone being sued, than have it be the man-made global warming "experts" or their puppet masters.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:21 am

TruthBringer;1162403 wrote: What I'm waiting for is for some of these man-made global warming "the debate is over" people to start being sued for their dishonesty and manipulation of the media to not question their motives and their theories.

I mean you're talking to the wrong guy here. If you want me to get excited about someone being sued, than have it be the man-made global warming "experts" or their puppet masters.

In order to do that you'd have to prove that they were wrong - start talking :yh_rotfl

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:29 am

Bryn Mawr;1162415 wrote: In order to do that you'd have to prove that they were wrong - start talking :yh_rotfl

I believe I have already proven that there is a more realistic and truthful alternative theory to their crazy theory that Human Beings are single handedly responsible for changing the Earth's climate.

So now you have to ask yourself, and everyone else has to ask themselves:

Is it the Sun that's causing the majority of Global Warming?

Is it Human Beings who are causing the majority of Global Warming?

There can only be one answer.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:43 am

TruthBringer;1162417 wrote: I believe I have already proven that there is a more realistic and truthful alternative theory to their crazy theory that Human Beings are single handedly responsible for changing the Earth's climate.

So now you have to ask yourself, and everyone else has to ask themselves:

Is it the Sun that's causing the majority of Global Warming?

Is it Human Beings who are causing the majority of Global Warming?

There can only be one answer.

No it is not

Yes we are

Two questions require two answers.

Clodhopper · Post by **Clodhopper** » Fri Mar 27, 2009 5:52 pm

I believe I have already proven that there is a more realistic and truthful alternative theory to their crazy theory that Human Beings are single handedly responsible for changing the Earth's climate.

I'd call this tilting at windmills. This isn't the issue. What matters is whether (as the scientists are saying) the climate is going to change massively in the next forty to one hundred years. There are an enormous number of factors that could affect this, but if they are right then we as a species are in for a very bad time, and we are also going to lose a vast array of other wildlife, both vegetable and animal.

In America, people and tv channels get sued all the time. It means nothing.

We have a different system here. It isn't perfect, but it means if a watchdog like Ofcom says it's bullocks then it probably is bullocks. What the watchdog can't actually do is bite. It can only bark (which tends to be the problem in our system).

Also, I have to wonder: If people get sued all the time and it means nothing, why are you hoping that these man-made global warming "the debate is over" people get sued? What relevance does it have to the issue, which remains: we are going to see a global increase in climate, with unpredictable but almost certainly horrible consequences for us and most other species on this planet. What are we going to do about it?

Answer: we must accept that we are the custodians of the planet - the janitors of spaceship Earth - or lose pretty much everything. The price we will pay for shirking our responsibilities in the past is already set, we just don't know how high it will be, but the evidence we have says it will be frighteningly high.

TruthBringer · Post by **TruthBringer** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:44 am

Clodhopper;1164742 wrote:

Answer: we must accept that we are the custodians of the planet - the janitors of spaceship Earth - or lose pretty much everything. The price we will pay for shirking our responsibilities in the past is already set, we just don't know how high it will be, but the evidence we have says it will be frighteningly high.

We Humans like to get ahead of ourselves though when it comes to "who runs this planet".

I agree that we have a huge stake in it, as does every other living creature who lives on it, but as to who actually owns it and controls the ultimate destiny of it, I believe we have to look only to the One that created it. and it's not us.

Now, am I saying that we don't have the responsibility to respect it and to take care of it the best we can and to try our best to take care of the things which live upon it? No. I have said before and will say again, we have a responsibility to respect our Home planet and to do whatever we can to make it a better place. I just disagree that the ultimate destiny of the planet falls into our hands. I do not believe we were designed to carry such a great burden. It is the essence from which all life comes forth that is ultimately responsible. We are here to serve that Source. And hence the purpose for our creation.

Galbally · Post by **Galbally** » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:56 am

Just to tilt back in here for a minute, I probably disagree strongly with Truthbringer on climate change as a general point, but there is a point he is making that is interetesting. It does seem that one of the problems of trying to tackle the issues that this problem raises is that it requires thinking that people are not very good at, to see how small short-term and seemingly harmless things we do now, can lead to massive and unexpected consequences in the future.

Its like smoking, most people realize that smoking is very harmful now, and will significantly increase the risk you will get cancer and probably die early; but because the next 10 or 20 or 1000 cigarettes probably won't kill us, we can equivocate, and put off giving them up. I have done that myself, its part of what people do in general, which is shut out unpleasant things if its possible.

The other problem is that people find it hard to grasp these global-style things, that it seems so big and almost fantastical because it sounds apocalyptic, its easy to just dismiss it as someone elses problem, because it seems large, remote, and something far off in time.

Then there is the issue that we like the things that fossil fuels give us, I love my car, we all like our creature comforts, and life is so wonderfully convinient, so again its a bit like cigarettes where we have to get around the pyschology of thinking we have to "give up" things and lose them, when in fact what we are trying to do is regain our collective future back, see it as a positive and not a negative thing.