If you............................................... ....

Tater Tazz · Post by **Tater Tazz** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:17 am

If you could stop time at one moment in life and have it be that way forever, what would it be and why??

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:40 am

Tater Tazz;1138821 wrote: If you could stop time at one moment in life and have it be that way forever, what would it be and why??

Who's life?

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:56 am

October 10, 2001 2:25 pm mile marker 248

that was 5 mintues and about 6 car links before a drunk ran my daughter of the road killing her instantly.

Post by **Peter Lake** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:00 am

scholle-kid;1138844 wrote: October 10, 2001 2:25 pm mile marker 248

that was 5 mintues and about 6 car links before a drunk ran my daughter of the road killing her instantly.

My god, I'm so sorry. I too have lost a son. It never gets better does it?

So very very sorry.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:48 am

Hey Tater:-6

Great to see you. How are you feeling:-6

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:05 am

scholle-kid;1138844 wrote: October 10, 2001 2:25 pm mile marker 248

that was 5 mintues and about 6 car links before a drunk ran my daughter of the road killing her instantly.

Oh my, I am so very sorry to hear this, it had to be devastating.

sunny104 · Post by **sunny104** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:35 am

I'd be back in florida when my kids were both under 5, that way we'd all be young forever.

:-4

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 8:25 am

Peter Lake;1138846 wrote: My god, I'm so sorry. I too have lost a son. It never gets better does it?

So very very sorry.

my condolences to you and your family for your loss..

thank you for your condolences.

no, it doesn't get any easier.

I am so thankful to have been blessed with her as my daughter and cherish my memories. I was telling a friend recently that i have to talk about her and do every chance i get. I truly feel i was blessed with 21 yrs. of the greatest daughter I could ever have wanted.

I did not post my reply for ant other reason then to answer the OP. I'm am 'realistic' enough to know wishing things were different or that anything could be changed is just that 'wishes', but it is human nature to wish and this is a great thread for sharing some very deep heartfelt wishes. Thank you to the Op for starting it.

thank you also Odie for your condolences.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:38 pm

scholle-kid;1138844 wrote: October 10, 2001 2:25 pm mile marker 248

that was 5 mintues and about 6 car links before a drunk ran my daughter of the road killing her instantly.

Big hugs to you Scholle :yh_hugs:yh_hugs:yh_hugs

I'm sorry she had to die. God bless you for keeping her fresh in your memory and your heart.

minks · Post by **minks** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:43 pm

scholle-kid;1138844 wrote: October 10, 2001 2:25 pm mile marker 248

that was 5 mintues and about 6 car links before a drunk ran my daughter of the road killing her instantly.

OMG my sincerest condolences as well. My one daughter is just now 21 I cant even imagine her life being taken like that... I am so sorry to hear that.

I dont know when I would stop time, I like the new memories all the time.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:48 pm

The summer of 1963. I was 8 years old and living in Torquay with my grandparents who had now adopted me and become my parents. I have never since been as happy as I was then and for the next three years before we moved away.

Except for the day my daughter was born. I would have happily held her in my arms like that for the rest of my life. When I turned 50, I gave up on the idea of ever having any children. She is my pride and joy and always will be.:-4

el guapo · Post by **el guapo** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:05 pm

august 14 2004 11pm 5 mins before bro was murdered

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:31 pm

scholle-kid;1138844 wrote: October 10, 2001 2:25 pm mile marker 248

that was 5 mintues and about 6 car links before a drunk ran my daughter of the road killing her instantly.

I think of you so often Scholle. What a tragedy and burden that you must bear each and everyday. What a sadness for you to carry. My heart is with you always:-4

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:59 pm

Open Mind;1139255 wrote: The summer of 1963. I was 8 years old and living in Torquay with my grandparents who had now adopted me and become my parents. I have never since been as happy as I was then and for the next three years before we moved away.

Except for the day my daughter was born. I would have happily held her in my arms like that for the rest of my life. When I turned 50, I gave up on the idea of ever having any children. She is my pride and joy and always will be.:-4

my grandparents on my dad's side helped raisedmy 2 brothers and me and they had a huge hand in helping me raise raising my kids, I will forever be convinced we were all the luckiest kids on earth to have been loved by those two people .

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:06 pm

el guapo;1139263 wrote: august 14 2004 11pm 5 mins before bro was murdered
my condolences to you for your loss. I can't even begin to imagine the extra pain and emotional upheaval that dealing with a loved ones murder would bring. My thoughts are with you and your family.I know some of what you are feeling my brother passed August 25, 2006 his tractor trailer went off an embankment on a hairpin curve on a gravel road.

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:13 pm

Kathy Ellen;1139280 wrote: I think of you so often Scholle. What a tragedy and burden that you must bear each and everyday. What a sadness for you to carry. My heart is with you always:-4
Thank you so much for these words. I really appreciate you . And now you will be often thought of with heartfelt feeling .Wow.

I can't think of any words to express what reading your words mean to me. All I can think of is my daughter 'energy' grinning at me saying see ma ..it's a inside 'joke'

Thank you again.

along-for-the-ride · Post by **along-for-the-ride** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:13 pm

Tater Tazz;1138821 wrote: If you could stop time at one moment in life and have it be that way forever, what would it be and why??

"Forever" is a very long time. Reminds me of the movie "GroundHog Day" with Bill Murray.

Those of us who have lost loved ones, myself included, would certainly like to have some more time with them. Something a little more than a memory. We miss them so.

Just my thoughts.

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:54 pm

couldn't forever be sort of like well, my forever will last until I am gone then forever will be over. that is kind of the way I see forever. I know there is a whole lot of 'history' in the past so i understand the 'concept' of a very long time ,, well I'm probably just rambling ,

and that movie 'ground hog day' scary if it was possible that could happen :yh_worry:yh_worry:yh_worry

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:16 pm

el guapo;1139263 wrote: august 14 2004 11pm 5 mins before bro was murdered But you know that bastard is rotting in Jail and your bro sent you James william. :-4:-4

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:18 pm

scholle-kid;1139322 wrote: Thank you so much for these words. I really appreciate you . And now you will be often thought of with heartfelt feeling .Wow.

I can't think of any words to express what reading your words mean to me. All I can think of is my daughter 'energy' grinning at me saying see ma ..it's a inside 'joke'

Thank you again.

Thankyou for the rainbow you sent. Pete has seen it and thanks you also :-4:-4

el guapo · Post by **el guapo** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:35 pm

oscar;1139426 wrote: But you know that bastard is rotting in Jail and your bro sent you James william. :-4:-4

he only got to serve 12 years

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:04 pm

el guapo;1139433 wrote: he only got to serve 12 years You were given James by who-ever decided you needed comfort.

For that bastard, 12 years is a very long time when he doen't have the one thing we are all entitled to...Our freedom.

'If I should die and leave you here awhile,

Be not like others, sore and undone,

Who keep long vigils by the silent dust, and weep.

For my sake - turn again to life and smile

Nerving thy heart and trembling hand to do

Something to comfort other hearts than thine.

Complete those dear unfinished tasks of mine

And I, perchance, may therein comfort you'.

.Anon

Tater Tazz · Post by **Tater Tazz** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:33 am

I think I would go back about 5 years ago. This is when one of my friends passed away from cancer. I think I would like to have her back. I miss her soooooo much.

Nomad · Post by **Nomad** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:42 am

Life moves and flows like a river.

Wouldnt have it any other way.

Thats horrible Scholle and Peter. I got a serious heart pain for you both.

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:12 am

oscar , I really like that poem you posted . Here is one i found soon after she passed .

Thank you nomad for your condolences.

THE HYMN OF RETURNING

To the land of the dead

in the dusk returning,

All deeds done, time gone,

life ending, no more amending.

This is what you are, this is your name,

you know it all at last.

We who are left on life's shore mourning

as you walk on into the

dark not turning.

We can not go with you,

this journey all make alone.

How ever Loved, and you were Loved,

How ever Strong, and you were Strong,

How ever Brave, and you were Brave,

How ever Skilled, and you were Skilled,

You will come alone to Deaths Halls.

Speak there your Name and Deeds for

them to stand alone for what you were.

You go on shine bright,

begin a new life, taking from this

all the mistakes.

Do not grieve for us, though we are sundered.

You were what you were, You will be remembered.

Learn to be what more you can be and we will mourn

the name you left us on Life's shore bound by old choices.

Go Free ahead on new Paths Returning.

IN MEMORY OF

Verna Mae Lewis

August 20, 1980 to October 10, 2001

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:30 am

scholle-kid;1139790 wrote: oscar , I really like that poem you posted . Here is one i found soon after she passed .

Thank you nomad for your condolences.

THE HYMN OF RETURNING

To the land of the dead

in the dusk returning,

All deeds done, time gone,

life ending, no more amending.

This is what you are, this is your name,

you know it all at last.

We who are left on life's shore mourning

as you walk on into the

dark not turning.

We can not go with you,

this journey all make alone.

How ever Loved, and you were Loved,

How ever Strong, and you were Strong,

How ever Brave, and you were Brave,

How ever Skilled, and you were Skilled,

You will come alone to Deaths Halls.

Speak there your Name and Deeds for

them to stand alone for what you were.

You go on shine bright,

begin a new life, taking from this

all the mistakes.

Do not grieve for us, though we are sundered.

You were what you were, You will be remembered.

Learn to be what more you can be and we will mourn

the name you left us on Life's shore bound by old choices.

Go Free ahead on new Paths Returning.

IN MEMORY OF

Verna Mae Lewis

August 20, 1980 to October 10, 2001

That's beautiful. Thankyou.

My dad knew he was dying and after he had gone, we found in an envelope addressed to us the poem i posted with a photograph of him in his WW11 pilots uniform. Of all the photo's he could have chosen to make a point, i believe he chose that one because it was a time of his life that he was most proud of his achievments and thats how he wanted us to remember him. Young and fighting for his country. He also left a short letter with it addressed to my wife and children.

'Please forgive me for all the things i said when i should not have. Please forgive me for all the things i should have said when i did not.'

I remember shortly before he died and him asking me if he's made me happy. I couldn't find the words so as i often do i gave him a tape of a song.

YouTube - All Saints - Black Coffee

The first thing he said was 'It's not those Stranglers' is it?:wah:

Now we know that Pete's cancer has returned he is determined that things must be in order. I had to get some certicates for an insurence company and i found his son's death certificate in with them. Barry was 4 years old when he died from a very rare child cancer of the prostate muscle.

If we have been 'lucky' in some respect it is that we have had time and have been able to say all we wanted to say to the one's we have lost unlike you, Jesse and many others. We don't say 'goodbye' any more in our family, just ' Fond adieu' or as the kids in our family say 'laters'.

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:19 am

oscar;1139818 wrote: That's beautiful. Thankyou.

My dad knew he was dying and after he had gone, we found in an envelope addressed to us the poem i posted with a photograph of him in his WW11 pilots uniform. Of all the photo's he could have chosen to make a point, i believe he chose that one because it was a time of his life that he was most proud of his achievments and thats how he wanted us to remember him. Young and fighting for his country. He also left a short letter with it addressed to my wife and children.

'Please forgive me for all the things i said when i should not have. Please forgive me for all the things i should have said when i did not.'

I remember shortly before he died and him asking me if he's made me happy. I couldn't find the words so as i often do i gave him a tape of a song.

YouTube - All Saints - Black Coffee

The first thing he said was 'It's not those Stranglers' is it?:wah:

Now we know that Pete's cancer has returned he is determined that things must be in order. I had to get some certicates for an insurence company and i found his son's death certificate in with them. Barry was 4 years old when he died from a very rare child cancer of the prostate muscle.

If we have been 'lucky' in some respect it is that we have had time and have been able to say all we wanted to say to the one's we have lost unlike you, Jesse and many others. We don't say 'goodbye' any more in our family, just ' Fond adieu' or as the kids in our family say 'laters'.

My kids and I always have said 'i love you" when we would say bye, like when leaving to go to school or work or talking on the phone. so as she left for work that day the last thing each of us heard the other say was 'I love you' ,

she had a little 'quirk' that always annoyed anyone that had been exposed' to this quirk . she would go into her brothers clothes closets ,mine, her best friends ,even her dads for his shirts and 'borrow' something without asking , she had dfone this for as long as anyone could remember, and getting whatever she had borrowed back was like pulling teeth. But , no one was allowed to touch her stuff, if she found me wearing a piece of her clothing it was like I had ripped off fort knox same for everyone else. well needless to say it sort of turned into a 'game for someone to make sure to be wearing something of hers when she was expected home. ok , now here is what I started this for.

a few days before the drunk came into our world , she and I was standing in my bedroom just talking about whatever it is moms and daughters will talk about ,, she had her makeup bag in her hand and I noticed so ask her if she had ' borrowed' my lipstick, now the normal responce to that question would be that silly grin and a smart ass remark and her handing it over with a thank you like she had ask . but what she did was pick up my makeup bag and dump all of her make up into mine bag , I asked her what she figured she was doing just borrowing all of mine to save time/ and she said just as calming and loving as she could " no, mom i'm giveing you my makeup' why I ask , she sort of shrugged her shoulder and said i won't be needing it. she hugged me and went out to the kitchen. neither of us thought to question it. and it never sunk in to my head till a month or 2 after she was gone ,, I still have all that make up in that bag. I can't throw it away , I can't use any of it and I damn sure can't give it away. I had a good belly laugh when her best friend was helping me clean out her drawers after she had passed , April would reach into a drawer and pull out a something of hers and say damn it I knew she had this ,she said , nuh huh not me ' one shirt verna had snuck off with when they were about 15 years lod, and gotten it stained so bad it was ruined , April pulled it out of that draw 6 years later and started crying because she would have traded every piece of clothing she owned to have that same arguement with verna about that shirt again.

OpenMind · Post by **OpenMind** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:55 am

scholle-kid;1139849 wrote: My kids and I always have said 'i love you" when we would say bye, like when leaving to go to school or work or talking on the phone. so as she left for work that day the last thing each of us heard the other say was 'I love you' ,

she had a little 'quirk' that always annoyed anyone that had been exposed' to this quirk . she would go into her brothers clothes closets ,mine, her best friends ,even her dads for his shirts and 'borrow' something without asking , she had dfone this for as long as anyone could remember, and getting whatever she had borrowed back was like pulling teeth. But , no one was allowed to touch her stuff, if she found me wearing a piece of her clothing it was like I had ripped off fort knox same for everyone else. well needless to say it sort of turned into a 'game for someone to make sure to be wearing something of hers when she was expected home. ok , now here is what I started this for.

a few days before the drunk came into our world , she and I was standing in my bedroom just talking about whatever it is moms and daughters will talk about ,, she had her makeup bag in her hand and I noticed so ask her if she had ' borrowed' my lipstick, now the normal responce to that question would be that silly grin and a smart ass remark and her handing it over with a thank you like she had ask . but what she did was pick up my makeup bag and dump all of her make up into mine bag , I asked her what she figured she was doing just borrowing all of mine to save time/ and she said just as calming and loving as she could " no, mom i'm giveing you my makeup' why I ask , she sort of shrugged her shoulder and said i won't be needing it. she hugged me and went out to the kitchen. neither of us thought to question it. and it never sunk in to my head till a month or 2 after she was gone ,, I still have all that make up in that bag. I can't throw it away , I can't use any of it and I damn sure can't give it away. I had a good belly laugh when her best friend was helping me clean out her drawers after she had passed , April would reach into a drawer and pull out a something of hers and say damn it I knew she had this ,she said , nuh huh not me ' one shirt verna had snuck off with when they were about 15 years lod, and gotten it stained so bad it was ruined , April pulled it out of that draw 6 years later and started crying because she would have traded every piece of clothing she owned to have that same arguement with verna about that shirt again.

Second to real life, those memories are priceless. I have a terrible memory so those I have managed to retain I keep remembering so I never lose them.:-6

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:11 am

OpenMind;1139958 wrote: Second to real life, those memories are priceless. I have a terrible memory so those I have managed to retain I keep remembering so I never lose them.:-6
The really special priceless memories are retained in our hearts .yes it may take out thuoghts to bring out the 'images' but the 'core' is stored safely away.

thats how i think /feel about them.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:51 am

scholle-kid;1139969 wrote: The really special priceless memories are retained in our hearts .yes it may take out thuoghts to bring out the 'images' but the 'core' is stored safely away.

thats how i think /feel about them. It's so tough for one's like Jesse ,(el guapo) who's brother was murdered. Most murders and fatal accidents are not witnessed by their loved one's thank heaven but Jesse saw his brother being murdered and that is a hellish moment in time to try to forget. The one's murdered and lost even those in wars, we can't help but imagine their final moments and it is that which is so hard to deal with. I'm not a believer in counselling. Counsellers are trained to 'imagine' what we go through and i don't believe they can ever fully understand. One's who have turned counseller from their own experience are better but i'd never go to one. I deal with my losses in my own mind in my own way.

el guapo · Post by **el guapo** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:56 pm

IF I KNEW

Author: George Michael Grossman

If I knew it would be the last time

That I'd see you fall asleep,

I would tuck you in more tightly

and pray the Lord, your soul to keep.

If I knew it would be the last time

that I see you walk out the door,

I would give you a hug and kiss

and call you back for one more.

If I knew it would be the last time

I'd hear your voice lifted up in praise,

I would video tape each action and word,

so I could play them back day after day.

If I knew it would be the last time

I could spare an extra minute

to stop and say " I love you,"

instead of assuming you would KNOW I do.

If I knew it would be the last time

I would be ther to share your day,

Well I'm sure you'll have so many more,

so I can let just this one slip away.

For surely there's always tomorrow

to make up for an oversight,

and we always get a second chance

to make everything just right.

There will always be another day

to say " I love you,"

And certainly there's another chance

to say our " Anything I can do?"

But just in case I might be wrong,

and today is all I get,

I'd like to say how much I love you

and hope we never forget.

Tomorrow is not promised to anyone,

young or old alike,

And today may be the last chance

you get to hold your loved one tight.

So if you're waiting for tomorrow,

why not do it today?

For if tomorrow never comes,

you'll surely regret the day,

That you didn't take that extra time

for a smile, hug, or a kiss

and you were to busy to grant someone,

what turned out to be their one last wish.

So hold your loved ones close today,

and whisper in their ear,

Tell them you'll alway hold them dear

Take time to say " I'm sorry,"

"Please forgive me," "Thank you," or " It's okay."

And if tomorrow never comes,

you'll have no regrets about today.

love ya miss see ya soon sam

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:14 pm

el guapo;1140108 wrote: IF I KNEW

Author: George Michael Grossman

If I knew it would be the last time

That I'd see you fall asleep,

I would tuck you in more tightly

and pray the Lord, your soul to keep.

If I knew it would be the last time

that I see you walk out the door,

I would give you a hug and kiss

and call you back for one more.

If I knew it would be the last time

I'd hear your voice lifted up in praise,

I would video tape each action and word,

so I could play them back day after day.

If I knew it would be the last time

I could spare an extra minute

to stop and say " I love you,"

instead of assuming you would KNOW I do.

If I knew it would be the last time

I would be ther to share your day,

Well I'm sure you'll have so many more,

so I can let just this one slip away.

For surely there's always tomorrow

to make up for an oversight,

and we always get a second chance

to make everything just right.

There will always be another day

to say " I love you,"

And certainly there's another chance

to say our " Anything I can do?"

But just in case I might be wrong,

and today is all I get,

I'd like to say how much I love you

and hope we never forget.

Tomorrow is not promised to anyone,

young or old alike,

And today may be the last chance

you get to hold your loved one tight.

So if you're waiting for tomorrow,

why not do it today?

For if tomorrow never comes,

you'll surely regret the day,

That you didn't take that extra time

for a smile, hug, or a kiss

and you were to busy to grant someone,

what turned out to be their one last wish.

So hold your loved ones close today,

and whisper in their ear,

Tell them you'll alway hold them dear

Take time to say " I'm sorry,"

"Please forgive me," "Thank you," or " It's okay."

And if tomorrow never comes,

you'll have no regrets about today.

love ya miss see ya soon sam

I know this poem well. I've see it before.

As i said, I got time to talk to the one's i lost so i was lucky in that respect. To be honest, I don't know what i'd do if my bro was murdered. At just a year older than me, he's been my best friend all my life and my rock through my arrest and trial....still is. If some-one took him in that manner then i truely believe that i would end up going down for life. It would be too hard to let go of hatred, want for revenge and grief.

mrsK · Post by **mrsK** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:36 pm

scholle-kid;1138844 wrote: October 10, 2001 2:25 pm mile marker 248

that was 5 mintues and about 6 car links before a drunk ran my daughter of the road killing her instantly.
:-4:-4

I am so sorry for what you have lost.

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:00 pm

Tater Tazz;1139746 wrote: I think I would go back about 5 years ago. This is when one of my friends passed away from cancer. I think I would like to have her back. I miss her soooooo much.

My condolences to you and your freinds family. to lose a person who cares/loves you because they choose to is very sad.

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:24 pm

oscar;1140010 wrote: It's so tough for one's like Jesse ,(el guapo) who's brother was murdered. Most murders and fatal accidents are not witnessed by their loved one's thank heaven but Jesse saw his brother being murdered and that is a hellish moment in time to try to forget. The one's murdered and lost even those in wars, we can't help but imagine their final moments and it is that which is so hard to deal with. I'm not a believer in counselling. Counsellors are trained to 'imagine' what we go through and i don't believe they can ever fully understand. One's who have turned counselor from their own experience are better but i'd never go to one. I deal with my losses in my own mind in my own way.

When i posted about the special /priceless memories being stored safely in the heart ,it was to open mind saying I have a terrible memory so those I have managed to retain . I can't even begin to try and imagine what it is like to lose a loved one that was murdered , to have to deal with the already the unbearable emotions that come with grief and then to have what has to be what I would figure to be an anger that is ,,i can't even think of a word or words to describe that anger , I won't even pretend to know what Jesse is feeling , so I can only express to Jesse and family my condolences with heartfelt meaning , I was reading the posts between you and Jesse ,(el guapo) earlier in this thread and could only think that you Oscar sound like a pure and true friend that is not afraid to be a real friend when the chips are down , I got that from the way Jesse responded to your replies about his replies. did that come out right ?

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:25 pm

mrsK;1140150 wrote: :-4:-4

I am so sorry for what you have lost.

Thank you

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:11 pm

scholle-kid;1140459 wrote: When i posted about the special /priceless memories being stored safely in the heart ,it was to open mind saying . I can't even begin to try and imagine what it is like to lose a loved one that was murdered , to have to deal with the already the unbearable emotions that come with grief and then to have what has to be what I would figure to be an anger that is ,,i can't even think of a word or words to describe that anger , I won't even pretend to know what Jesse is feeling , so I can only express to Jesse and family my condolences with heartfelt meaning , I was reading the posts between you and Jesse ,(el guapo) earlier in this thread and could only think that you Oscar sound like a pure and true friend that is not afraid to be a real friend when the chips are down , I got that from the way Jesse responded to your replies about his replies. did that come out right ? Thankyou.... Jesse (el guapo) i hope won't mind my telling you this but he has posted on here what happened to his brother so i don't think he'll mind. Jesse sent me the newspaper report on his brothers murder a while back in a private message. I would never make any private message i get public but as i said, Jesse has posted on here. He added a link so i could read the details of the murder as i'm sure it was too tough to go into details himself. I'm sure also thats why his public posts are brief. The circumstances around his brothers murder were absolutely horrific and Jesse was attacked also. He had to watch his brother being killed and i can't even begin to imagine how i would deal with that. I pm'd Jesse only recently just to say that i was having a shyte day as my husband was on the phone to insurence companies tying things up as his cancer has returned. That got me thinking about losing my parents and sister which got me thinking to Jesse's brother Sam. I think some things are just too horrific to deal with especially what Jesse saw that night. My father was so affected by the war that he rarely spoke of it. Just an idea, but maybe Jesse could start a support group for others in his shoes. It only needs a web site set up. Jesse has just celebrated the arrival of his first child and i really do believe that some-one sent James for Jesse. It is quite a co-incidence really. My brother's wife was told she'd never have a child and even had surgery on her womb. They got on with their lives and really totally dismissed the idea completely. It was one of my fathers biggest dissapointments to see his son with no son of his own. After my dad died, my brothers wife found she was pregnant. My brother by that time was 50 yrs old and his wife 47 yrs old so it was a bolt from the blue. My poor bro didn't know what hit him coming a dad at 50. I said the same to my bro at the time....that dad had sent 'Henry' for him.

Odie · Post by **Odie** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:13 pm

el guapo;1139263 wrote: august 14 2004 11pm 5 mins before bro was murdered

aw so sorry hun!:-4

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:42 pm

oscar;1140526 wrote: Thankyou.... Jesse (el guapo) i hope won't mind my telling you this but he has posted on here what happened to his brother so i don't think he'll mind. Jesse sent me the newspaper report on his brothers murder a while back in a private message. I would never make any private message i get public but as i said, Jesse has posted on here. He added a link so i could read the details of the murder as i'm sure it was too tough to go into details himself. I'm sure also thats why his public posts are brief. The circumstances around his brothers murder were absolutely horrific and Jesse was attacked also. He had to watch his brother being killed and i can't even begin to imagine how i would deal with that. I pm'd Jesse only recently just to say that i was having a shyte day as my husband was on the phone to insurence companies tying things up as his cancer has returned. That got me thinking about losing my parents and sister which got me thinking to Jesse's brother Sam. I think some things are just too horrific to deal with especially what Jesse saw that night. My father was so affected by the war that he rarely spoke of it. Just an idea, but maybe Jesse could start a support group for others in his shoes. It only needs a web site set up. Jesse has just celebrated the arrival of his first child and i really do believe that some-one sent James for Jesse. It is quite a co-incidence really. My brother's wife was told she'd never have a child and even had surgery on her womb. They got on with their lives and really totally dismissed the idea completely. It was one of my fathers biggest dissapointments to see his son with no son of his own. After my dad died, my brothers wife found she was pregnant. My brother by that time was 50 yrs old and his wife 47 yrs old so it was a bolt from the blue. My poor bro didn't know what hit him coming a dad at 50. I said the same to my bro at the time....that dad had sent 'Henry' for him.

Here is a link to a site that is a greif support forum that has as many different forums as there are relasonships ' loss of a parent, spouse, child, sibling,cousin, friend etc...and ways that cause the death of a loved one ,,long term illness, sudden death, murder, war ect...

Beyond Indigo- Death and Dying: Support for Grief and Loss- Changing the way you think about grief

It really is a comfort to talk to other people that have lost a loved one in the same way as yourself,,like in my case, a grown child to sudden death by a drunk driver.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:35 pm

scholle-kid;1141159 wrote: Here is a link to a site that is a greif support forum that has as many different forums as there are relasonships ' loss of a parent, spouse, child, sibling,cousin, friend etc...and ways that cause the death of a loved one ,,long term illness, sudden death, murder, war ect...

Beyond Indigo- Death and Dying: Support for Grief and Loss- Changing the way you think about grief

It really is a comfort to talk to other people that have lost a loved one in the same way as yourself,,like in my case, a grown child to sudden death by a drunk driver.

Thanks for the link, I will look at that in length and i hope Jesse does too. Do you feel anger toward the drunk driver? I know even with the one's i have lost to cancer, i have felt extreme anger at their suffering. As i said earlier, I know if anyone did to my bro what happened to Jesse's I would probably end up in prison. I would probably feel the same in your shoes with the drunk driver as well.

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:59 am

oscar;1141341 wrote: Thanks for the link, I will look at that in length and i hope Jesse does too. Do you feel anger toward the drunk driver? I know even with the one's i have lost to cancer, i have felt extreme anger at their suffering. As i said earlier, I know if anyone did to my bro what happened to Jesse's I would probably end up in prison. I would probably feel the same in your shoes with the drunk driver as well.

At first I was so angry that all I could think about was ways to find him and make sure he could never cause another mother the pain I was feeling. The drunk driver left the scene , then about 2 months later turned his self in. He was charged with DWI ,reckless driving and vehicular homicide , while out on bail he overdosed with drugs and alcohol and died . I heard that he didn't die right away ,but was in the hospital for 3 months he had kidney failure and assorted other complications caused by his drinking and drug use . That drunk driver was just 4 or 5 years older then she was.

Then when I heard about his OD and and the 3 months in the hospital before his death ,all I could think about was his mothers pain . I could imagine what his mother must have felt during the months between his causing my daughter's death and his own death . his death brought me no comfort , nor did it make any difference to the grief I fell for my daughters death but I no longer had the anger.

Post by **Oscar Namechange** » Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:45 am

scholle-kid;1141552 wrote: At first I was so angry that all I could think about was ways to find him and make sure he could never cause another mother the pain I was feeling. The drunk driver left the scene , then about 2 months later turned his self in. He was charged with DWI ,reckless driving and vehicular homicide , while out on bail he overdosed with drugs and alcohol and died . I heard that he didn't die right away ,but was in the hospital for 3 months he had kidney failure and assorted other complications caused by his drinking and drug use . That drunk driver was just 4 or 5 years older then she was.

Then when I heard about his OD and and the 3 months in the hospital before his death ,all I could think about was his mothers pain . I could imagine what his mother must have felt during the months between his causing my daughter's death and his own death . his death brought me no comfort , nor did it make any difference to the grief I fell for my daughters death but I no longer had the anger. What an awful chain of events it was? We have dunk hit and runs here and i do believe that i could never just leave the scene however much trouble i would be in. The guy must have been tormented dreadfully over your Verna's death so he must have cared in a strange way. Then as you said, another mother loses her child.

I was married before Peter over 25 years ago now and i remember the night the police came to tell me my first husband had been shot. That's one sight now that would always put the fear of god up me. The knock on the door, looking out and seeing the police on your doorstep late at night. I have got involved with police over the years to help with problems in my area so it's not uncommon now for one to call at my home. Your heart still lurches when they knock the door even if you know when and why they are coming.

I'm hoping Jesse will come back to the thread.

scholle-kid · Post by **scholle-kid** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:29 pm

A friend of ours drove past the accident and recognize the car , he stopped and told the cops he knew us and ask if he could be the one to call me. The cops said ok, our friend called me and said I needed to come to his place right away that there had been an accident. When I got there he broke the news to me. He knew I lived alone and didn't want me to be alone when I found out. I will forever be grateful for good friends.

Kathy Ellen · Post by **Kathy Ellen** » Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:44 pm

scholle-kid;1143507 wrote: A friend of ours drove past the accident and recognize the car , he stopped and told the cops he knew us and ask if he could be the one to call me. The cops said ok, our friend called me and said I needed to come to his place right away that there had been an accident. When I got there he broke the news to me. He knew I lived alone and didn't want me to be alone when I found out. I will forever be grateful for good friends.

:-4 It's good to know our friends are there for us:-6