It takes a Lot of Faith to be an Atheist

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:43 pm

Hitchhiker's Guide is one of the most enjoyable trilogies I've ever read.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_kk_2?ie= ... e%20galaxy

gmc · Post by **gmc** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 2:15 pm

No I should have specifed that the communication would be as christianity stands, same message different method of communication.

Not quite sure what you mean there. same message as in JC was the son of god etc etc?

posted by accountable

Hitchhiker's Guide is one of the most enjoyable trilogies I've ever read.

How about red dwarf?

theia · Post by **theia** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 3:22 pm

Accountable;796623 wrote: Hitchhiker's Guide is one of the most enjoyable trilogies I've ever read.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_kk_2?ie= ... e%20galaxy

You, Betty and I were reading HG on here in the old days...remember?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 4:36 pm

theia;797260 wrote: You, Betty and I were reading HG on here in the old days...remember?
AAaaaaaahhh the memories. :-6

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Mon May 12, 2008 8:01 pm

gmc wrote:

why don't you read the bible for yourself and decide. Send me a tenner and your life will prosper why does anyone fall for it? If all you study is the bible you end up with a very odd view of things.

I find the concept that people vote a certain way because the church tells them to a very odd one.

Excuse me while I veer off to a land within a world unseen and not nerely traveled as much as is needed for my own sanity,,,my mind..

The Dream

I am amongst many,, but not with any, alone in a crowd so to speak,, I see many eyes and ears pointed in the same direction,, all very interested,, in need of something,, I see one speaking,, but I hear nothing,, my interest lies with those listening,, as if this speaker had these bits of words that would help them,, maybe to see what it is,, he seems to see,, as if it would justify their own understanding,, or add to what they feel is not enough,, or explain to them what it all meant,, some thinking in terms of a type medicine even,,

a multitude of reasons,, as many as those present,, this at the time seemed obvious,, for reasons I have trouble explaining,,,with words,,

I am suspended,, elevated in a sense above, way in the back, and at an angle of sight that is not superior to,, but merely better positioned than I am normally used to,, and from this different view point I can see clear as day everything they are searching for and exactly where it is in each and everyone of these good,, and very interesting people,, and at that moment I think this very loud thought,,

as if I am speaking to another,,

Why don't someone tell them? As if I were the first to notice.

The thought was as gentle as my grandmother,, but with the force of my mother.

I've sent billions!

Maybe a belief in oneself is enough,, said the Dreamer

:yh_party,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,:yh_hypno

twistwoods · Post by **twistwoods** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:08 am

spot;782327 wrote: That doesn't seem particularly good of him, setting Himself up as judge without any consent from those He's judging. None of us have asked Him to.

That's a strange type of logic, isn't it? Do criminals have to give permission before judges in courts of law can judge and sentence them? Surely, if that were true, anyone could commit the most abominable crimes without fear of punishment!

If, as Christians believe, God created the universe and everything in it, he doesn't need permission from anyone to do anything because he is so much more powerful and wise than any of his creations! However, because he is a God of love, he condemns no one. He wants us all to join him in heaven but he also gives us free will. We condemn ourselves if we set ourselves up as his equals and therefore refuse to obey him - after all, that was why Satan was expelled from Heaven and why Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:40 am

Seems to me that if there is a god capable of creating the heavens and earth and all things within, then the same god surely is capable of giving us instant acknowledgment of his existence from our birth. Instead we are instructed, taught and brainwashed that there is a god, and a living one at that who will punish us severely if we do not believe. At about the same time that we are instructed, taught and brainwashed about the existence of a god we are also told about the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. If we live in other than a Western Culture we are taught, instructed and brainwashed in believing in a different god or even multiple gods. Now sometimes the believers of their respective gods try to entice, educate or even brainwash believers of different gods into why their god is the true one. This can cause considerable conflict as well as confusion. C'mon, if god really wanted followers he could have made this whole process much simpler.

No----it doesn't take lots of faith to be an atheist, just a wee bit of logic.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:16 am

Jester;943117 wrote: Exactly, it just takes a wee bit of self logic to deny what you are born in your heart with, on the other hand it just takes a wee bit of faith to believe deeper in the innate understanding God gives everyone at birth.

It seems to me it takes more energy to deny than it does to believe. That ought to make it easy to understand which way to go.

At least for me it did.

I disagree that there is any innate understanding at birth. If you were born and grow up to adulthood without any public contact, no parental instruction etc., you are saying that one would still believe in god? There are many that just go along to get along.

It's estimated that there are 36 million atheists in the U.S., about 10% of the population. Some 75% of the U.S. population are Christians and they represent 75% of the prison population. Atheists represent .2% of the prison population. Divorce among Christians is much higher as well

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:53 pm

Jester;943269 wrote: Go to any continent and any sociological group and at the root of thier existance is a god... of some type... God is innate. But man rejects and places himself in the seat that belongs to God.

We become self serving, as we talked about in the other thread, we do what we want because of what we believe.

That does not suggest that it's innate - it could equally be (and likely is) a learned response. The type and definition of God is cultural - were it innate then it would cross cultural boundaries.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:36 pm

Jester;943269 wrote: Go to any continent and any sociological group and at the root of thier existance is a god... of some type... God is innate. But man rejects and places himself in the seat that belongs to God.

We become self serving, as we talked about in the other thread, we do what we want because of what we believe.

I see-------you are saying then that superstition of some type is innate?

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:42 pm

Bryn Mawr;943311 wrote: That does not suggest that it's innate - it could equally be (and likely is) a learned response. The type and definition of God is cultural - were it innate then it would cross cultural boundaries.
Type and defiition, rites and rituals, yes those would be cultural and learned, but belief in a greater power, that has crossed cultural boundaries worldwide.

suzy_creamcheese · Post by **suzy_creamcheese** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:47 pm

if when i died, I happened to be standing in front of a God who was going to judge me, id assume he would forgive me? Isnt thats what hes supposed to do?

Im not Christian, or any other religion, but i dont treat people badly, im nice enough. Why would I be sent to Hell, and what sort of God would it be that would condemn someone to that?

What if youre a christian and you die and theres nothing???? Youve wasted your time!!

What if you die and you find out it was actually Allah you were supposed to be praying to all along?

You cant just believe something that doesnt ring true to you

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 1:59 pm

suzy_creamcheese;943381 wrote: What if youre a christian and you die and theres nothing???? Youve wasted your time!!First, nuh-uh!

Second, if there's nothing, you wouldn't know or care, because you'd be nothing ... nothing wasted.

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:30 pm

Jester;943366 wrote: Re-read my quote:

Thats cross cultural...

But not innate

twistwoods · Post by **twistwoods** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:45 pm

Lon;942962 wrote: Seems to me that if there is a god capable of creating the heavens and earth and all things within, then the same god surely is capable of giving us instant acknowledgment of his existence from our birth. Instead we are instructed, taught and brainwashed that there is a god, and a living one at that who will punish us severely if we do not believe. .... C'mon, if god really wanted followers he could have made this whole process much simpler.

No----it doesn't take lots of faith to be an atheist, just a wee bit of logic.

I agree. He could have done that, but he chose not to! Why? Because he wanted our love and our friendship - not robots who have no choice but to believe and obey. Nevertheless, he put inside of each of us a seed of longing - longing to be able to make sense of the world around us and longing for the divine. We all have the choice - to nourish that seed or to kill it. I chose to nourish mine - if what you say is what you really believe, you chose to kill yours and, whether you know it or not, you are the poorer for making the wrong choice! And the reason so many believers try to convert non-believers is because we want everyone to ejoy the feeling of inner joy with which we have been blessed. Surely, it can't be wrong to want to share our joy!

By the way, I wasn't indoctrinated in any way. My father and mother disagreed on almost everything - politics, religion, human relationships, money matters, everything! It seemed to me that I heard at least two sides to every argument so I had no choice but to make up my own mind.

Also, in case you hadn't realised, I'm British and Britain is a much more secular country than America is. Over here, it is very hard to stand up and say you are a Christian. Oh, we aren't persecuted in the true sense of the word but we are constantly ridiculed and some people have even been refused jobs because their potential employer thought they must be a bit weird if they admitted to being a Christian. (Of course, in public they always deny that was the reason but I used to work for a very large national company where the managers would admit it privately.) I can truthfully say that, over here, indoctrination is very rare - at least, in the Christian faith it is, I cannot speak for other religions.

Lon · Post by **Lon** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:52 pm

twistwoods;943472 wrote: I agree. He could have done that, but he chose not to! Why? Because he wanted our love and our friendship - not robots who have no choice but to believe and obey. Nevertheless, he put inside of each of us a seed of longing - longing to be able to make sense of the world around us and longing for the divine. We all have the choice - to nourish that seed or to kill it. I chose to nourish mine - if what you say is what you really believe, you chose to kill yours and, whether you know it or not, you are the poorer for making the wrong choice! And the reason so many believers try to convert non-believers is because we want everyone to ejoy the feeling of inner joy with which we have been blessed. Surely, it can't be wrong to want to share our joy!

By the way, I wasn't indoctrinated in any way. My father and mother disagreed on almost everything - politics, religion, human relationships, money matters, everything! It seemed to me that I heard at least two sides to every argument so I had no choice but to make up my own mind.

Also, in case you hadn't realised, I'm British and Britain is a much more secular country than America is. Over here, it is very hard to stand up and say you are a Christian. Oh, we aren't persecuted in the true sense of the word but we are constantly ridiculed and some people have even been refused jobs because their potential employer thought they must be a bit weird if they admitted to being a Christian. (Of course, in public they always deny that was the reason but I used to work for a very large national company where the managers would admit it privately.) I can truthfully say that, over here, indoctrination is very rare - at least, in the Christian faith it is, I cannot speak for other religions.

Are you saying that no human person influenced your thinking, that you came to the lord of your own volition?

suzy_creamcheese · Post by **suzy_creamcheese** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:57 pm

but what if there is a god, but youve got the wrong one.

It might be that hindu elephant one for all you know, then youd all be up **** creek!!

Post by **Bryn Mawr** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:57 pm

Jester;943463 wrote: The drive to worship, to express thankgiving, comes from within not from without, the basis of all worship is based on an expression from within at the surroundings we encounter.

Thats innate. We all have it, we dont all express it the same way becaseu we subsuquently learn culturally other ways based on what we encounter in life. From the beginning God set a law unto man and we have a will and a conscience and that will and conscince either wars or capitulates to that original innate knowledge, its the ulitmate question that drives us all, in th eback of our mind all our lives.

To deny it is foolish, we even come up with labels so we can catagorize and manage our beliefs, not because we need to to keep it in order within us, but because misery loves company... we call it religion, denomination, believer, athiest, agnostic, heck theres even an alien nuwubian here...

If you dug deep enough in open honesty before the Creator he'd reveal it too you as well.

Have you any evidence of that or is it just that you wish it so?

I repeat, it knowledge of God is innate then we would all believe in the one true God regardless of the culture we were born into. The fact that each culture has separate beliefs - to the extent that you see even slight variants of belief within the same culture as heretical and ungodly, strongly suggests that it is learnt rather than innate.

Accountable · Post by **Accountable** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:31 pm

suzy_creamcheese;943485 wrote: but what if there is a god, but youve got the wrong one.

It might be that hindu elephant one for all you know, then youd all be up **** creek!!
Unless it's cow **** creek, in which case we'd be cleansed. :yh_angel

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:12 pm

I can agree with Jester that man/woman has an innate desire to search for the Divine. The question is who is right; The Christian, the Muslim, the Buddhist etc. Jester would claim that the Christian is the only one who is correct. I suggest that all have some correctness in their thinking and especially in their origin.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:47 pm

Jester:-6

I have to strongly disagree. Have your read the "Qur'an? Have you read any of the Hindu sacred writings? If not then your judgment is invalid.

I will refer you to the other thread on homosexuality, for Jewish comments on the Bible.

Shalom

Ted:-6

Ted · Post by **Ted** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:29 pm

Jester:-6

So then I will cease to post for your information but will continue to post for others. You most certainly don't have to read them if you don't wish. Others may find what I have to say, interesting.

Shalom

Ted:-6

twistwoods · Post by **twistwoods** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 3:14 am

Lon;943478 wrote: Are you saying that no human person influenced your thinking, that you came to the lord of your own volition?

Not exactly. I have no doubt at all that my dad had a huge influence on me but I am adamant that he did not indoctrinate me. We are all influenced by our surroundings and the people we love but that is not the same as saying that we are all indoctrinated. (To be indoctrinated you have to be forced to abandon your faculties for reasoning and free choice and be forced to follow someone - or something - blindly.)

I can remember at the age of four or five listening to my mum and dad having heated discussions about all sorts of things, including whether God really existed. Dad was sure he did. Mum was equally sure he didn't - although she occasionally conceded that he might exist but then she would immediately add, 'But if he does, he's never done anything for me!'

Also, I lived in a small street (ten houses) where all the houses were owned by mum's aunties and most of the houses were rented out to members of mum's family. None of mum's family were Christians and quite a few of them were heavy drinkers. Some were actually violent when they were drunk. Dad's family were all Christians (and lived 'good', sober lives) but they lived 150 miles away and, as we had no car at that time we only saw them once or twice a year, at most. I could have copied the people around me. Would you then have said they had indoctrinated me or would you have said 'Bad blood always shows in the end!'

But I didn't copy them. I rejected their way of life because it seemed to me - from my earliest days - that dad had the best arguments and promised a better, more fulfilling, way of life. I remember telling him that I wanted to be a Christian when I grew up. Now, I know I might have made a totally different decision if mum's family had been drunken violent Christians and dad's family had been good sober atheists but that was not the way it was so I could only react to the situation I found myself in.

Mum did not drink and she was one of the kindest, most loving people I have ever known but she was not a Christian so she was very happy when I said that I wanted to become a Christian when I 'grew up' because she thought it meant that she didn't have to think about the 'problem' of religion until I was much older. She assumed that, never having discussed religion in my life, I would suddenly decide whether or not I believed - probably some time in my late fifties!

Dad said that was stupid. He said that no one can make a valid choice from a position of ignorance. He said you had to know what you were choosing to follow or reject. He asked me if I would like to go to Sunday School to learn more about Jesus and I said I did. But it really was my choice. But - and this was very much ahead of his time - he also went to the library and researched the other major religions so that he could teach me about those as well. (Dad had been a regular soldier in the British army before the Second World War and he had been stationed in India for several years, so he already knew quite a lot about Hinduism and Islam but he wanted to be sure that he didn't misrepresent either of them merely because he had rejected them. Believe it or not, he even taught me about atheism. He actually read articles by such famous atheists as Bertrand Russell and others and did his best to tell me truthfully what they did or did not believe. However, if I'm honest, I don't remember him teaching me anything about Buddhism but it is possible that I have just forgotten that. I don't know.)

I think it was fairly predictable that I would choose the religion my dad believed in and that I was being taught in Sunday School but dad really did his best to allow me to make an informed decision and he always told me that, whatever I decided as a child, I could always change my mind when I got older. He did his best NOT to indoctrinate me and, in fact, when I was older I rejected the denomination he loved and chose another that he really did not like and yet never once did he criticize me!! He really was a remarkable man.

I should also add that, even though she was never as enthusiastic as dad, mum also became a Christian but that was not until I was much older and she never spoke to me about it.

Just one final point that may give you an idea of what sort of man my dad was, he loved all types of poetry but one of his favourite poems was 'The Divine Image' by William Blake and he would often quote the final lines of that poem:

Then every man of every clime,

That prays in his distress,

Prays to the human form divine,

Love, Mercy, Pity, Peace.

And all must love the human form,

In heathen, Turk, or Jew.

Where Mercy, Love, & Pity dwell,

There God is dwelling too.

Oh yes! Dad had a HUGE influence on me but I will never accept that he indoctrinated me - and he would have been horrified if he thought he had!

twistwoods · Post by **twistwoods** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 7:43 am

Jester;944096 wrote: A wise father makes a glad heart!

Can I ask you what was your first thought towards God and what casued it that you can recall?

Well, I'm not at all sure you'll approve. It certainly isn't anything very profound or philosophical. As I said in my last post, my dad loved poetry and whenever he was particularly happy or sad he used to go round the house reciting one of his favourite poems. Some of them were religious but some of them were not but I loved listening to all of them. (That was probably why I became an English teacher.)

Well, one of dad's favourite poems was called 'Abu Ben Adhem' by James Leigh Hunt. You may know it but, in case you don't I will reproduce it here, to save you having to Google it.

Abu Ben Adhem by: James Leigh Hunt

Abou Ben Adhem (may his tribe increase!)

Awoke one night from a deep dream of peace,

And saw, within the moonlight in his room,

Making it rich, and like a lily in bloom,

An angel writing in a book of gold:-

And to the presence in the room he said,

"What writest thou?" - The vision raised its head,

And with a look made of all sweet accord,

Answered, " The names of those who love the Lord."

"And is mine one?" said Abou. " Nay, not so,"

Replied the angel. Abou spoke more low,

But cheerly still; and said, " I pray thee, then,

Write me as one that loves his fellow men."

The angel wrote, and vanished. The next night

It came again with a great wakening light,

And showed the names whom love of God had blest,

And lo! Ben Adhem's name led all the rest."

I remember listening to dad reciting that poem and thinking how wonderful it would be if an angel came into my room. I was very, very young - maybe three or four -but I remember trying to keep awake in case God sent me an angel and I missed it. I also remember feeling disappointed when the angel never came - but I also remember thinking that, whether the angel came or not, I wanted my name to be written in that golden book (even though I didn't really understand what the book was.)

I told you, it's not profound and it is very childish but that is my first memory of knowing that I wanted God's love. And the irony is that dad never knew how deeply that poem had affected me. He was not trying to have an effect on me, he was merely enjoying himself, saying one of his favourite poems. (He later told me that he started to recite his favourite poems aloud when he was in Changi - the notorious Japanese prisoner of war camp - in the Second World War. On several occasions he was very near to death and he swore that it was forcing himself to remember his favourite poems that kept his mind active and gave him the mental stamina to pull through - that and his faith, of course!)

Of course, some Christians believe that only true believers get to heaven - which was why I said I wasn't sure you would approve - but, just like my dad, I really hope that, if I get there, I'll find lots of interesting people like the fictional Abu Ben Adhem!

suzy_creamcheese · Post by **suzy_creamcheese** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 8:52 am

Twistwoods, Your dad sounds wonderful.

I dont share his or your religion, but i approve of the way he let you find it himself rather than push it on you, very open minded.

twistwoods · Post by **twistwoods** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 10:06 am

Jester;944196 wrote:

I recall as a young young child I collected natural things, leaves, rocks, tree bark, critters, alwasy always it was because I was so amazed by them and I always had a notion they had a designer. I knew man didnt do it. Mostly casue grampa,who knew everything didnt know how leaves were made.

Well, as I've often observed, we all come to God in our own way - or maybe it's HIS way! Your way would never have been any good for me because I was VERY, VERY short-sighted but somehow I slipped through the net and no one picked up on it so I wasn't prescribed glasses until I was about 15 or 16 and by then, of course, I was so vain that I refused to wear them! So, all through my childhood I struggled to tell the difference between an ant and a bee!!! I certainly could never have stopped to wonder at the awe and majesty of the natural world around me - so perhaps it is just as well I had poetry to inspire me. :-3

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:00 pm

Faith Is One Thing Knowing Another !!!

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 11:24 am

Jester;945911 wrote: Great what is it you 'KNOW'? And how did you come to 'KNOW' it?

I'm God John 10 ; 34 - 35

hoxtonchris · Post by **hoxtonchris** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:05 pm

some time ago on another forum site i posted on a thread that was initiated by an atheist,he insisted he had absolutly no belief in god,or indeed no doubt that he dosnt existi have never realy believed there is such a thing as an avid atheist.i think everyone without exeption has at least a modecom of doubt weather there is a god or not.i devised a test,all i asked was that anyone doing the test do so in absolute honesty.here goes.if you have a child in the family that you love dearly take it outside,if no child then substitute it for a beloved adult.look toward the sky and say ,"god i dont believe in you and i challenge you to smite this child!"now the tiny feeling of apprehension you felt(and this is where the honesty comes in)is the modecom of doubt/belief in gods presence,and therefore you cannot be a total devout atheist.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:40 pm

Lon;942962 wrote: Seems to me that if there is a god capable of creating the heavens and earth and all things within, then the same god surely is capable of giving us instant acknowledgment of his existence from our birth. Instead we are instructed, taught and brainwashed that there is a god, and a living one at that who will punish us severely if we do not believe. At about the same time that we are instructed, taught and brainwashed about the existence of a god we are also told about the Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. If we live in other than a Western Culture we are taught, instructed and brainwashed in believing in a different god or even multiple gods. Now sometimes the believers of their respective gods try to entice, educate or even brainwash believers of different gods into why their god is the true one. This can cause considerable conflict as well as confusion. C'mon, if god really wanted followers he could have made this whole process much simpler.

No----it doesn't take lots of faith to be an atheist, just a wee bit of logic.

This is the loudest and most compelling argument against organized religion,, the fact that what religion we choose in life depends on who raised us,, and in what part of the world we're from,, tells me it truly doesn't matter what you choose to call this higher power everyone hopes there is watching over the world and everything in it...

It makes me believe religion is just another form of how us humans have figured out how to create divisions that separate us in our beliefs,, much like issues of class,, race,, and political affiliations...

For anyone to assume they have figured out who has interpreted this thing that created us correctly,,, is merely believing in something,, anything,, just to satisfy the deep need to believe in all of us.. Some say it is used as a crutch when we think and talk about the things in life we don't understand,,, like when life gets too hard,, or to explain where we go when we pass on,,, or to explain why you should be good for goodness sake,,

,,,cause Santa Clause is coming,,,to town!!:wah:

That's the one that got me,,, whatever works,...

I personally believe we are all,, but God,, on earth in pieces,,,

The truth lies within,, I and my father are one,,, Do as you would be done by..

I mean the story of Christ itself is evidence of a natural distrust in mans interpretation of anything,,, just look how the Jews did one of their own when he didn't come up with a total monopoly on God for them..

Think about it,, what would be any different today if another one came and challenged what people understand about there own higher power..

Religion,,,just being mans feeble attempt at intelligence to a subject none of us truly have a handle on...

Daniyal · Post by **Daniyal** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 1:18 pm

Jester;946897 wrote: Jhn 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

Jhn 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

And why did you chose these particular verses to extract out?

Read post 343

wildhorses · Post by **wildhorses** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:21 am

Hope6;782310 wrote: I think it would take a lot of faith in you're beliefs to be an atheist. All I would be able to think about is, what if I'm wrong! Any atheists out there who would like to respond, I would be curious to know. When you get to heaven and are standing before God to be judged and He wants to know, why you didn't believe in Him, what are you going to tell Him?

I am not actually an atheist, but an agnostic.

If there is a god....do you think he is so self absorbed and insecure to be offended by anyone who did not believe in him? I give him more credit than that.

If there is a heaven ...when you get there...it won't be about god. It will be about you. How did you live your life?....it will be about you. You think he is going to send you to hell because you did not believe in him? LOL. If god is all knowing and all forgiving....and such a great guy, then it makes no sense that there would even be a hell.

If there is a god, I am not afraid. I have done the best with my life that I could. I am an honest and compassionate person. God won't waste space in hell for me.

DrJ · Post by **DrJ** » Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:22 am

wildhorses;1030427 wrote: I am not actually an atheist, but an agnostic.

If there is a god....do you think he is so self absorbed and insecure to be offended by anyone who did not believe in him? I give him more credit than that.

If there is a heaven ...when you get there...it won't be about god. It will be about you. How did you live your life?....it will be about you. You think he is going to send you to hell because you did not believe in him? LOL. If god is all knowing and all forgiving....and such a great guy, then it makes no sense that there would even be a hell.

If there is a god, I am not afraid. I have done the best with my life that I could. I am an honest and compassionate person. God won't waste space in hell for me.

Well all we have to judge anything with is our own minds,, experiences and perspectives,, all different,, all limited,, and the the best evidence we know is that all of us are alike in that equasion,, and the only times we find trouble in this world is when we become short-sighted enough to believe we can actually exist without each other....

Which is many equasions inside other equasions constantly changing in perfect unison,,, who can actually say evolution is anything short of 100% pure brilliance.

The tree has many parts,,, all of which without each other,, all different,, all changing inperfect unison,, what part of the tree can you say is not the tree.